War protesters sue for right to bare breasts

[ECH1969]

Mendocino County women who have been baring their breasts at various venues to protest the war in Iraq are in Sacramento federal court seeking an order prohibiting the California Highway Patrol from arresting them during a planned noon demonstration Monday at the Capitol.

The women's group, Breasts Not Bombs, is suing CHP Commissioner Mike Brown and two of his officers over a warning that if the women demonstrate while topless, they will be arrested and charged with indecent exposure and disorderly conduct.

A court declaration of Sherry Glaser, a member of the group and its spokeswoman, says the planned political protest "focuses primarily, though not exclusively, on various initiatives (on Tuesday's ballot) we oppose that Governor Schwarzenegger supports."

"The organization recognizes that women's breasts are a powerful tool and carry with them significant social, political and cultural content," Glaser's declaration says. "Clearly, the use of a woman's breasts to promote political causes is efficient and worthy of protection.

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/13811955p-14653030c.html

[Debi]

1. I can't believe Matcom isn't all over this one! n/t

[edbermac]

2. Here! Here!

:evilgrin:

[joeunderdog]

54. How 'bout "Keep the BOOBS out of the White House?"

Nice ring to it.

[unpossibles]

3. it's sad that boobs are more verboten than

dropping bombs on an Iraqi wedding party.

[LynzM]

7. I agree

Our country is so uptight about sexuality, except for when it comes to celebrities, then more is better :eyes: Bodies are just bodies!

[Kikosexy2]

48. Is Rick...

Santorum all over this?...

[MADem]

71. He probably would like nursing dogs to wear eight cup brassieres! nt

[Realityhack]

35. I agree as well n/t

[sofa king]

4. Aristophanes would be pleased.

[texpatriot2004]

5. I hope they lose. Protests should be respectable.n.t

[mattclearing]

12. Nothing wrong with breasts.

Our leaders should be respectable.

[Realityhack]

17. Just because they are not respectful is no excuse

for you not to be. You can't say how disrespectful they are while lowering yourself to their level. Their is nothing 'wrong' with sex either in fact (in the right cercumstances) it is very good, but we do not allow it public.

I have nothing against topples or nude beaches or areas but I do not think this should be permitted wherever you wan't just because you are protesting.

[mattclearing]

19. It's pointing out the real obscenity.

Getting upset over breasts when there is fiery death from above is kinda ridiculous.

[Realityhack]

23. That is not how it will be viewed.

I KNOW what their argument is... but then you could say getting upset over smokeing a little crack is obsene when people are being blown up too.

It is definately pushing the bounds of what is reasonable in protest. If they are doing it as civil disobedience with the expectation they will be arested and are willing to go along with that its one thing. But trying to get a legal ruleing that going topless is ok because you are protesting is silly.

[Sunny_Sunshine]

20. Is it disrespectful for guys chests to be bared?

What do my breasts have to do with sex? This is why women have to wear burkas because men think women are all about sex. How are my ankles different from my breasts? or my arms or my face or any other part of my body. You disrespect all women by claiming that part of our bodies are about sex if you happen to see it.

[Realityhack]

30. Red Herring.

The discusion of wither or not it should be legal for women to go toppless is a seperate debate that has nothing to do with the war.

Its a valid and interesting debate. And we could have an interesting discusion about it, you might even be supprised by my views...

But thats a completely diffrent issue than the war. They are in no way related (as political discusions... I know their 'point').

The thing is that the pervailing viewpoint of the vast majority of the population for whatever reason is that women going topless is 'indecent'. The Law says you can't (not me). Agitating to change that law is an admrable goal if that is the way you feel... but it has NO PLACE in a WAR PROTEST. Caliming a connection between the two is dishonest.

[ljaycox]

56. Yes it is...

I think men should be clothed in public also. It is disgusting to be around people in crowded places that are using you as towel. There are some parts of everybody's body that are disgusting to strangers. Armpits and asscracks are among these--floppy sweaty tits are right up there. The nude body is beautiful to the beloved, not the stranger.

[Centered]

58. Man Boobs are Nasty

Let's all keep our clothes on for now... last thing anyone needs to bring down the validity of a protest are a couple of college kids with a few SHOW US YOUR TITS signs...

[MADem]

73. Well, I find this image to be horrifying!!!

Why, oh, why, does he not THINK OF THE CHILDREN????

[Up2Late]

81. Wow, California Governor Schwarzenegger has really let himself go!

He really need to do some serious pumpitude.

Who is that? He looks just like a fat and flabby Schwarzenegger!

[MADem]

82. That is the gropy gov himself, on holiday in HI!!! n/t

[Ouabache]

89. MAN BOOB ALERT

He needs to buy a 'mansiere' from Kramer and George's father on Seinfeld.

[foreigncorrespondent]

50. Shall we just dawn out burkas now?

Will it make you happy if all women in the U.S. covered up like that?

Baring one's breast has absolutely nothing to do with having sex in public.

And baring your breasts is NOT lowering yourself to the level of the idiots in power. How dare you just insult women like that.

Sheesh, I have seen some men go around topless who really shouldn't be going around topless. I would never dream of telling them they are lowering themselves to the level of the repukes for showing their man boobs!

[Moochy]

61. Indeed

No but it's somehow similar to smoking crack in public,
if this thread is to be any guide. :hide:

Don't these crazy women know that noone has ever seen these things before? Think of the CHILDREN? PLEASE THINK OF THE LITTLE CHILDREN! especially the ones who are teething.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

80. When I saw the pix of the women

with the bared breasts, at first I giggled. But then I was filled with admiration because hey, that just takes guts. And they were just women. Not "babes" but strong women who have breasts that give nourishment to children.

Now, I once saw another set of pix of a protest on the west coast with a naked guy who inflated his scrotum. THAT freaked me out.

But the breasts women? Go for it, sister! I admire your chutzpuh.

[zanne]

65. When protests are respectable, the media ignores them.

What good is it to spend the time, energy and money on a peaceful protest when it winds up on page 16 of the NYT? There were lots of peace marches and protests in the 60's and 70's, then the conservatives started spreading their talking points. The most effective one for them was "If the media didn't show these protestors, they'd stop protesting". In the first year of the new century, they finally got their wish. We need a new way of protesting the government's actions. I think it's pathetic that boobs and violence are the only things that will grab the media's attention now, but it's the truth.

[Raine]

99. I agree

this sort of thing turns it all into a joke and makes everyone look like boobs (sorry I couldn't resist).

Seriously though I agree with you.

[yellowcanine]

6. I would rather see bare breasts than bear breasts.

[sofa king]

10. Yes, but I would like the right to bear breasts.

[yellowcanine]

13. Breast bears, now those you probably want to avoid altogether.

[sofa king]

14. What about breast beer? Would you bear bare brest beer?

[yellowcanine]

15. Breast Beer? I like beer and I like breasts but that sounds gross.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

44. have you been drinking?

I think I need one

[eowyn_of_rohan]

51. oops, meant to respond to the post above this n/t

[Yupster]

57. or the right to arm bears

just to get constitutional.

[are_we_united_yet]

64. As one who keeps abreast of humor

This is funny, but barely

[unpossibles]

67. Libby wouldn't. I hear he has a thing for bare bears n/t

[MADem]

72. He does not know much about them, though

He thinks poking them with a stick will make them horny....

[happydreams]

98. The right to bare breasts and bear arms?

[Up2Late]

8. I wonder what USSCJ Thomas and Scalia would say about this?

Are Naked Breasts a form of Free Speech?!? And is that speech protected by the First Amendment?

Or do those two not recognize the 1st Amendment?

[Canuckistanian]

11. We should ask Scalito

That'll be our litmus test.

[Voltaire99]

63. Scalia: "Silence! I'm tightening my cilice!"

Thomas: "I found a breast in my Coke. Wanna see it?"


(Cilice fun here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice)

[EuroObserver]

9. Photos please < sympathetic grin> n/t

[Realityhack]

16. This seems really stupid to me.

These protesters are hurting the entire movement by makeing it look extreme and painting as a platform for other completely unrelated issues.

Thats the thing. Its perfectly posible to be anti-war, pro free speach, and simultainiously anti-public nudity. Are we going to call streaking free speach as well?

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the war in Iraq or effective protest against it. It is a political ploy to use those things as a platform to advance an entirely seperate adjenda.

IMO its stupid.

[TroglodyteScholar]

18. "those things"

LOL

Come on, lighten up. It's not about any other agenda, it's about getting ATTENTION. And people are so terrified of titties that it works.

[Realityhack]

21. I wouldn't say they worked.

People are not going to be discussing their anti war motives but rather wither or not protesters (in general) should be able to wander around toppless (this discusion will expand to fully naked quickly). As a result you have actualy CREATED a story to knock the protests out of the highlight while providing a convient excuse that they are 'being covered'.

Being totaly extreamist doesn't lead to peole agreeing with you or even seriously considering your viewpoint. Those who are still pro-war or who on the fence will not be persuade by this. They may even backlash because you are painting the anti-war movement as a bunch of extreamists who 'have no morals' etc. It undermines many of your arguments.

[mattclearing]

22. I guarantee you it will get on the evening news though,

which is more than you can say for the "respectable" protests we've staged thus far.

[Realityhack]

25. Yes but that doesn't mean...

they convince anyone. They could actualy cause a small backlash against the war protests because it makes them look like marginal, estreamists who are just 'peace nuts' rather than showing that it is a respectable main-stream view that can be held while still beleiving that public nudity is not ok.

IMO. They SHOULD loose the case. But more than that as a tactic I do not beleive it is particulary effective in driveing the desired outcome. The desired outcome is NOT publicity... that is just a strategy to get to the desired outcome (ending the war, addressing the underlying issues, etc).

[mattclearing]

28. I just disagree. I understand your view, and I still disagree.

It's a big tent movement. We have room for the Democrats, ANSWER, UFPJ, Code Pink, Move On, and Breasts Not Bombs.

It's not about "trying to be respectable" anymore. People who care more about breasts than bombs aren't going to be convinced no matter what we do.

I say piss them off. It will bring out the morality police. When the American people are forced to choose between their T&A and the Christian right, nipples win every single time.

[Realityhack]

32. I understand and respect your viewpoint.

but I would personaly rather not be at a march with them. Its not something I support and I would prefer not to be at a protest where it is taking place.

IMO if the movement succedes it will be despite them not because of them.

They have the same affect on people in the 'middle' that extreamists on the right have. They push them away.

[jamesinca]

66. Bay to Breakers

It is a fine race. And thousands are drawn to it, not only as spectators, but as participants, or should I say partici-pantsless.

I agree, if they do this, there are those that will paint this whole thing as a bunch of sandal wearing, long haired freaky people and never focus on the issue they are protesting.

I think it really comes down to timing and picking your fights. I agree with both of you, so how screwed up does that make me?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

92. It would work better if men dropped their trousers and joined in

But people are terrified of "those" too.

adding: I don't really believe that would work either. The way our culture is, most people see it as a girls gone wild parade. And if guys joined in it would be seen as exhibitionism. IMO it all detracts from the seriousness of the cause, and appears too self-serving.

[davhill]

24. I sometimes wonder

If the powers that be go out and hire kooks in order to trivialize anti-war and anti-globalization protests.

[Realityhack]

27. IMO... not in this case. but then...

I don't think they could have done much better without violence anyone if that was ideed their intent.

[Mountainman]

42. Boy those breast really got your attention and they aren't even bare yet.

Your reaction is just what is expected and just what will get attention.

Your feelings about breasts bared in public is the norm and if a breast or two is bared in public it will get your attention if you know about it. And by now you know about it and so do others that read this story. They may show up to see the bared breasts but they will also get the message that goes with them. It works just as sex sells products everywhere.

In Europe there wouldn't be much of a noise made if breasts are bared in public. Breasts are bared everywhere in magazines and on beaches and even in the central parts of some cities.

In America we are way to up tight about nudity. If we weren't then then these folks would not get the attention they are getting.

I should recuse myself from this debate since my family are nudists. That's why your reaction got my attention.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

49. It seems whenever people say America is too uptight about nudity

it is during a discussion involving baring breasts. When guys are allowed to run around baring their weenies, only THEN will we be truly liberated ! :applause:

[Beam Me Up]

70. Liberated weenies in Berkeley California

Ah, those were the days!

http://www.phdtop.com/martinez/ray.html

[roody]

88. These women from Mendocino County are fully committed

to peace and justice. Their tactics are effective and the breasts and stopping war do go together.

[drm604]

75. Agreed.

This does not help the cause. It distracts from it and potentially drives away people who might otherwise take our side. You can bet that the press will be all over this. Faux News will love it. I almost believe that the people doing this are actually Republican plants.

I have no problem with bare breasts, but let's fight for the more important issues first. As issues go this one is currently VERY far down on the list of things that need to be addressed.

[Laelth]

91. Hurting the movement?

And what other group is bringing this much attention to the issue? (Cindy Sheehan, perhaps.) But if you ask me, the "Breasts Not Bombs" campaign is brilliant. Breasts always get attention (and rightly so, imho).

-Laelth

[eowyn_of_rohan]

93. Why do you think....

breasts SHOULD get attention, or why did you add "rightly so"?

curious...

[Laelth]

94. Fair question.

Never really gave much thought to how I would defend the position that breasts should get attention. I suppose, for me, that "truth" is self-evident. But, since you asked me to justify it, I'll give it a shot. :)

1. They stick out. Things that stick out get attention. They're more noticeable.
2. Some, if not all of us, are genetically programmed to notice them.
3. We are definitely all culturally conditioned to notice them (and I take no position, here, on whether or not this is a good thing).
4. They are symbols of female power (the power to bring about future generations of humans, to nourish and love them, the power of sexual selection which guides the evolution of our species).
5. To ignore the breast (to cover it, hide it, or otherwise erase it) is to ignore, cover, or attempt to erase female power.

How's that? :)

-Laelth


Edit:Laelth--spelling.

[FtWayneBlue]

26. At the Sept. 24 DC anti - war rally,

there were 3 topless women standing together on the second half of the march. They were holding a sign that said "War is Indecent."
A fellow marcher said that they looked like Papa bear, Mama bear, and Baby bear. I thought they were making a powerful statement, that the war on Iraq is indecent, their naked breasts were not. I don't think they got arrested, and it didn't seem like anyone was taking offence to it, that I noticed. I say, more power to 'em.

[htuttle]

29. Protesting naked is a global tradition

Of course, it works better somewhere that naked women create feelings of shame or guilt in the viewer, rather than leers:

For example:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3155525.stm

Nigeria's women oil protesters
...
But the women have warned that they would strip naked if any attempt is made to use policemen or soldiers to forcefully eject them from the oil installation.

The women, many of who are elderly, say as the mothers of policemen and soldiers it is traditionally believed that it would be an abomination for them to see the nakedness of their mothers.
...

[oblivious]

31. Wow! That sounds like a powerful strategy in that context then.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

41. I dont know about worldwide TRADITION

but you are right, it did occur in Nigeria once

[htuttle]

46. It also happened in Bolivia and possibly Peru over the last few years

And more than once in the US, of course.

But you are also right -- not 'everywhere'.

[lynne]

33. Looks like the focus is now on their breasts -

- and not on their cause. Not sure that was their intent but that is what has occurred.

[Just Me]

34. Hell, if I thought it'd stop bombs, I bare my breasts every day!!!

:7

[SoDesuKa]

36. It's Legal in New York

Females have had the right to go topless in New York for a couple of years now. It's no big deal. New York has survived the onslaught of naked titties. Last I heard, California's pretty cosmopolitan.

[Realityhack]

40. Yep.

I think the legality depends upon the law in CA.

Just stupid IMO as it will not be good for the anti-war movement.

[unpossibles]

68. and in Columbus, OH

and if that place can stand them, then....

[HootieMcBoob]

79. Yup, it's been legal to bare one's breasts here in NY for a few years now

Anywhere a man is allowed to go without a shirt it is also legal for a woman to go without a shirt. Even though it's totally legal it's practically never done. The only place I've seen topless women on a regular basis is at the beach and occasionally sunbathing in Central Park.

Arnold shouldn't be so afraid of a few boobies. As we've learned here in New York it doesn't dull the mind or lead our children down the path of destruction. So, I say let the boobies be free!

[shadowknows69]

86. I agree

and let me be the first to encourage more NY women to do it. Clearly not enough of you are excercising your rights ;-)

[zbdent]

37. damn, I live in the wrong part of the country

n/t

[eowyn_of_rohan]

38. they care more about getting attention for themselves

than they do about the cause they are supposedly doing this for. Its all part of the it's all about ME ME ME ME ME ME ME mentality

[Nashvilliberal]

39. That's one way to focus attention on A RACK.... n/t

[eowyn_of_rohan]

43. If they REALLY cared, they'd set themselves on fire!

dont know what made me say that...

[mongo]

87. Um -- are you 14?

That would be a good reason.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

90. Sorry you dont see the irony between selfless sacrifice for a cause

and self-centered exhibitionism under the guise of selfless sacrifice.

The martyrs of the 1960s anti-war movement on the one side, and the girls gone wild of today. (Excepting the percentage of women who really do this to further noble feminist and political goals)

Capiche?

And do these protestors REALLY believe that people will listen to their anti war message any more closely because they have their shirts off? Doubt it. But they sure will get more close attention paid to themselves...

[mongo]

95. Seeing as how this form of protest

has roots in the French Revolution - I don't think it is self-centered exhibitionism.

Besides, it is a galvanizing issue. look at all the responses to this thread. It is a reasonable and valuable way to get exposure (no pun intended) for the protest.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

97. oh really?

Do have a credible source that this has roots in the French Revolution? I know in Delacroix's painting of the revolution: "Liberty Leading the People", Liberty is in the form of a woman whose clothes have fallen partially off, but the only nakedness I am aware of from the revolution is when women were stripped and stoned (among other things) as punishment!

I don't know if I agree that just because there is a lot of chatter here it means that the issue is galvanizing. Topics like this always attract heavy exchange of opinion,because there are strong feelings on all sides.

And as I said, it seems more people are paying attention to the boobs in this case then they are to the anti-war message. Check out posts 9, 10, 37, 53, and 86 for some examples of the mentality that pretty much seems to pervade in this country (and that seems more like the writings of 14 year olds than mine did).

[LeftyMom]

45. I've seen topless anti-sweatshop protestors

but that was in Santa Cruz, which is fucking wierd.

These ladies have got to be dedicated to be baring the girls in Sacramento, it's cold as hell here this time of year.

[Jed Dilligan]

47. Bush admin. hates breasts

and anything else that has the potential to feed hungry babies!

[BrklynLiberal]

83. Especially Former AG Ashcroft!!!!

[Jim Sagle]

52. Fuckin' A!

:9

[lonestarnot]

53. There were some bare breasts not bombs in D.C., peoplefound them to be

quite the attention getters, however I missed them. Friend sent me pics. I could dig to share if anyone wants to peep. LOL

[cascadiance]

55. Ask the media why they want us to see more Bush than Breasts!

:)

[Feron]

59. That type of protesting is pointless...

Sure they do get attention ,but not the kind that is desired. The only thing such actions inspire is a fap fest.

If there was a parade of naked men, as a woman I'm not checking out the banner, I'm looking at the merchandise. Sure men may have nipples too, but do you really think that they are going to ignore boobs to look at a banner?!

I fail to see how getting naked gets the point across better. If you want to be an exhibitionist fine ,but don't try to pretend it's for some higher cause. Right or wrong, nobody takes a naked person seriously. There is nothing wrong with nudity ,however a protest is not the venue for it. I guess in short my main beef with it is that it distracts from the message.

[currents]

60. you're talking about it aren't you?

eom

[ToeBot]

62. "Who needs protest signs when you have these?"

If Abercrombie & Fitch picks it up, I want a piece of the action.

[Chicago Democrat]

78. That's funnY!

LOL!

[meganmonkey]

69. Here's a link to VIDEO:

of some of these women at the White House mass arrest on Sept 26th. It's the 6th one down the list at the link, it's about 4 minutes long. They show up maybe halfway through or so. It's a great little video:

http://www.truthout.org/multimedia.htm

[occuserpens]

74. Provocation?

<War protesters sue for right to bare breasts>

Little can be more damaging for the anti-war movement than this.

[Mz Pip]

76. People are dying in this war

Stuff like this seems to trivialize it to some kind of silly theater.

This war is a serious, tragic period in our history. Suing to bare one's breasts as a form of protest seems like a bad joke.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[barb162]

85. I am with you on this. silliness over something deadly serious

[Chicago Democrat]

77. This is right from the French Revolution!!! I LOVE IT!! Fantastic!

GLorious...


Yay

[BrklynLiberal]

84. We all know how former AG Ashcroft would feel about this!!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

$8000 worth of coverup....

[gauguin57]

96. Which is the bigger boob in that picture?

Uh ... I nominate "The Eagle."