Americans to pay millions to recapture battle flags

[T_i_B]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/11/22/nflag22.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/11/22/ixportal.html

Four rare battle flags captured during the American War of Independence by a British officer have been returned after more than two centuries to be auctioned.

The regimental colours seized in 1779 and 1780 by Lt Col Banastre Tarleton, who remains one of the conflict's most controversial figures, have already aroused huge interest among American military historians. They are expected to fetch between £2.3 million and £5.8 million at Sotheby's in New York next year.

Until recently the flags had hung in the Hampshire home of Capt Christopher Tarleton Fagan, the great-great-great-great nephew of the lieutenant colonel. Capt Tarleton Fagan, a former Grenadier Guards officer, said: "I am very sad to sell them. They are an important part of our family history and we have had them for 225 years. However, there comes a time when their value is such that one can no longer afford to insure them."

Only about 30 American revolutionary battle flags have survived, all of which, apart from the ones to be sold at Sotheby's, are in museums and in most cases only fragments remain. The ones captured by Tarleton are in excellent condition and their history is well documented. One is the flag of the 2nd Regiment of Continental Light Dragoons, raised in Connecticut by Col Elisha Sheldon, who were defeated by Tarleton in Westchester County, New York in July 1779. The other three flags were seized the following year in a still controversial battle in the southern United States.

[Orsino]

1. Marvelous that these glorious symbols of our nascent democracy...

...are to be auctioned off to the very wealthy?

It's so appropriate I could cry.

[izzie]

2. Nice if they went where all could see them.

I have not heard of Bush stamping around saying he wants his'eagles' back but then that is what I get for liking history.

[Lisa]

16. and unlike Augustus, he hasn't been crying for his lost military units ...

Rapidly approaching a half-legion, in numbers.

[SpiralHawk]

24. The famous Bush "Codpiece" will go for millions someday

As nostalgic NeoCons remember that Bright Shining Day -- May 1, 2003 -- when the Chimp in Chief strode across the deck of the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln in "uniform" proudly displaying his codpiece and -- lying once again -- declared the invasion of the oil fields of Iraq "Mission Accomplished."

Several thousand lives and Mega Billions of tax dollars later...we are still in perpetual "mission accomplished" mode*


* according to the Neocon propaganda paid for with your tax dollars

[truthisfreedom]

3. i could give a flying hootie-hoo about a flag.

but they're cute, aren't they?

stop being so hung up on symbolism. it's a bad street.

[acmejack]

4. I agree, let's shut down all the museums

since you don't give a "hootie hoo". There is a certain value in history and I agree with the previous posters and would also enjoy seeing the flags.

[demobrit]

5. They belong to your nation

The battle flags belong to your nation .
I would have thought the federal government would have bid for them rather than allow a private collector to hide them away in a vault somewhere away from the public.

[Coventina]

6. That's a kind sentiment, but really, they are spoils of war.

Battle flags are traditionally "captured" and kept in war. I see no problem with them staying in Britain. Now, if it had been something looted from the civilians, like Martha Washington's china, that would be something else again.

As an art historian, I naturally want to see them in a museum.
It really wouldn't matter to me if it were in England or here.

If the guy can't afford to insure them anymore, it would be nice if he DONATED them to a museum, but maybe he's harder up for cash than he's willing to let on.

[katinmn]

25. I agree. Minnesota has a Virginia Confederate flag captured

on the last day of the Battle of Gettysburg. It's kept at our first-rate Minnesota History Museum.

And we're not giving it back. The State of Virginia asked that it be returned in 2001.

"Tell them (Virginia) to come and get it," said (then-governor Jesse) Ventura. "That's ours -- it's not a POW," he said.

"How many Minnesota boys spilled their guts and blood on that same battlefield," said Ventura. "We won the flag. To the victors goes the spoils," he said, speaking to Greater Minnesota reporters on Thursday (March 29).

http://www.hometownsource.com/capitol/2001/april/0402battleflag.html

We have, however, left open the possibility of a joint-custody agreement. :)

[RedCloud]

7. Maybe we need to invade England.

I was checking out the list o our allies and it seems we clobbered every one of them at least once. Two whoppings and you are a staunch ally!
So imagine if we can beat the Brits a third time. They would become our super duper allies, we get those flags and probably other stuff too.

[demobrit]

8. Sorry to disappoint you but

When you invaded Canada in 1812 , you were well and truly blown back from wence you came , you sued for peace and we magmanamously accepted

:pals:

[BikeWriter]

9. I'll bet * could beat up the Queen... Well, maybe not.

[Dark]

13. Hey, the only thing you brits managed to do in 1812 war was burn down our

capitol. . .

oh, wait. . .

[melody]

12. Yeah, that'll show them for being our ally!

You're talking about the land of my ancestors. I've got more people in the ground over there than I do here (and the folks have been here over 350 years now).

I'd rather the Brits keep the flags than have them go to some Chinese investor who'll salt them away in a vault somewhere to gain value.

:wtf:

[noonwitch]

10. The purchaser could probably get a nice tax deduction from a museum

If he donated them. He could even probably work out a great deal for something that rare.

[yellowcanine]

11. Banastre Tarleton, the most hated British officer of the Revolution

http://jrshelby.com/kimocowp/tarlton.htm

[Bombero1956]

14. looks to me like

this British officer is the model for the villainous British officer in the movie The Patriot.

[Texifornia]

18. He was (n/t)

[MrSlayer]

19. Very interesting.

You learn something new around here everyday.

[bleedingheart]

20. thanks for that link....

good read....once again a DUer shares some interesting information!!!

[Jara sang]

15. Tarleton nearly captured Jefferson.

Tarleton was coming up one side of the mountain towards Monticello and Jefferson was fleeing down the other side.

[dryan]

17. Should be in a museum.

[Historic NY]

21. Bloody Butcher Tarleton..............

he gave no quarter and killed the captured & wounded. I hope the government finds a benefactor to buy them.

[demobrit]

22. Tarleton retired as a Major General and became a Lawmaker in UK

[Bushy Being Born]

23. It isn't right that these should be sold off to wealthy private citizens

They rightfully belong to the nation. The US gvt should buy them, and put them in a museum on American soil for all of us to see. I don't agree with those saying it doesn't matter where the flags are located, these are our flags. I'm not saying we should've broken into Fagan's home to recapture them, but now that he puts them up for sale, we should act. And in this case I don't think even the staunchest republican would bitch about wasting taxpayers' money.

[Coventina]

26. And while we're restoring everything to its rightful owners, we'll return

Hawai'i back to the Hawai'ians.

We "took" an entire, sovereign nation when it suited us. Seems a like a bigger deal than a few battle flags captured from the battlefield.

[newyawker99]

27. Hi Bushy Being Born!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast: