US Army forces 50,000 soldiers into extended duty

[cal04]

The U.S. Army has forced about 50,000 soldiers to continue serving after their voluntary stints ended under a policy called "stop-loss," but while some dispute its fairness, court challenges have fallen flat. The policy applies to soldiers in units due to deploy for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The Army said stop-loss is vital to maintain units that are cohesive and ready to fight. But some experts said it shows how badly the Army is stretched and could further complicate efforts to attract new recruits.

"As the war in Iraq drags on, the Army is accumulating a collection of problems that cumulatively could call into question the viability of an all-volunteer force," said defence analyst Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute think tank. "When a service has to repeatedly resort to compelling the retention of people who want to leave, you're edging away from the whole notion of volunteerism."

When soldiers enlist, they sign a contract to serve for a certain number of years, and know precisely when their service obligation ends so they can return to civilian life. But stop-loss allows the Army, mindful of having fully manned units, to keep soldiers on the verge of leaving the military.

Under the policy, soldiers who normally would leave when their commitments expire must remain in the Army, starting 90 days before their unit is scheduled to depart, through the end of their deployment and up to another 90 days after returning to their home base. With yearlong tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, some soldiers can be forced to stay in the Army an extra 18 months.

more
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-01-29T144559Z_01_N196487_RTRUKOC_0_UK-IRAQ-USA-STOPLOSS.xml

[acmavm]

1. Anyone who enlists now is a complete fool. They'll keep you in there

forever or until you get killed, whichever comes first.

[berni_mccoy]

5. A complete fool or someone in dire straights

Who is young, uneducated, unemployed and needs to provide for a family including medical benefits...

Isn't it convenient that Bush's economy of unemployment, low-paying jobs, substandard primary education and dismantled social programs is forcing people to choose between poverty and starvation and death.

[havocmom]

13. Sadly, your first condidtion does not always apply to vitctims of other 2.

There are getting to be a lot of educated people who are unemployed and need to provide for their families. The worsening economy is gonna make more and more people 'volunteer' for losing most of their civil rights just to keep fed.

Join the (corprate) Army and eat.

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. Or, someone who is in dire straights who is brilliant in every way...

...but truly believes there is sanctuary in the Air Force.

[saigon68]

43. Here is your example

While providing convoy security support on Wednesday September 28 in Safwan Iraq, Airman 1st Class Elizabeth Nicole Jacobson, 21, of Riviera Beach Florida, became the first Security Forces Airman to die in Operation Iraqi Freedom. She died as a result of her vehicle making contact with an improvised explosive device (IED). Safwan is on the border of Iraq and Kuwait.



AND FROM HER BLOG

I love you guys and I've missed you so much. Also Spongebob squarepants and I are going to have our babies together, yes lil spongelits.I love invader zim. And I broke my second to last toe on my right foot and now it hurts but it's cool. I like boys that Drool and I love the smell of cut grass and a cool day in the meadows. I want to have two kids and i want to name them Hunter and Austin.

I hate how I have to wait in line at Disney land. . . And I want to tell my First grade teacher, Ms. Craig that I love her for being awesome and teaching me how to spell. I dislike angry people that discus politics, and think they know everything. I wish that children didn't have to starve or get sick. I'm proud to be an American although sometimes I wish I were Canadian. . . . I want to die happy, and have a productive life.

[saigon68]

42. They are FOOLS ---- joining an Army of Special Olympians

When you voluntarily stick your hand in a running garbage disposal your knuckles get shredded.

Edited to take the anger out

[Ian David]

11. No, there is ONE way out...

Army paratroopers allegedly appeared on gay porn Web site
January 29, 2006

RALEIGH, N.C. -- Army officials are investigating allegations that members of the celebrated 82nd Airborne Division appear on a gay pornography Web site, a spokeswoman said Friday.

Authorities at Fort Bragg have begun an inquiry into whether the paratroopers' actions violated the military conduct code.

Division spokeswoman Maj. Amy Hannah declined to say how many paratroopers are involved or identify their unit within the division. A defense official speaking on condition of anonymity said up to seven soldiers are involved.

Hannah said soldiers questioned will be allowed to seek legal assistance, but she declined to say if anyone had been charged.

More:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-porn29.html

My guess is they just might have been desperate for a way to buy body armor.

See also:

U.S. 82nd Airborne Division
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._82nd_Airborne_Division

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

41. That's why the Army's having a hard time reching its recruit goals

[Army]

2. "Call into question the viability"

There's no question. This is why no one reenlists.

[wellst0nev0ter]

44. Well, There's A Choice Of Reenlisting

and recieving a bonus, or you can be stop-lossed and not recieve a bonus. maybe that's why the military has been reporting a high reenlistment rate all year.

[Catch22Dem]

3. Yeah, the enlistment contract used to mean something...

I promise to give you 2 or 3 or 4 or 6 etc... years of my life, perhaps more, then you give me training, and eventually an honorable discharge, both of which will help me find work in the civilian sector. Not the case any more.

[hootinholler]

16. I remember reading the stop loss clause when I enlisted in'78

I was economially disadvantaged, and joined the Navy get tech skills. at the time I thought it reasonable, but, now, I see it as a tool of a fascist administration.

-Hoot

[CRK7376]

4. And that idiot Bush

wants to cut back the size of the Reserves and National Guard???? What a clown.....

[2Design]

9. he is not cutting people just the numbers so it matches what they

really can recruit - it is still a shell game - if their goal was 12 and they can only get 8 they now make that number 8 - not cutting bodies - just adjusting numbers to match reality - it just sounds good in the press to say it the other way

[mcscajun]

40. What is this 12 business of which you speak? It was always 8, citizen.

Any talk about 12 is just doubleplusungood.

Ignorance is Strength.

Minitrue has everything under control.

[DS1]

6. This probably helps lead to excessive violence in Iraq

Family of 4 following to close? Light 'em up with Ma Deuce

[Hyernel]

7. Did you hear that? A distinctive "SNAP!"

American soldiers are just pawns to Bushco....In service to the Oil, and Oil Services Industry's greed.

[0007]

8. Blood for Oil


Support the war - Donate a Son a daughter
The GOP working for a better America

[matcom]

10. I got out of the Army ONE DAY before Stop Loss went into effect

during Desert Storm I

one friggen DAY!

[BiggJawn]

12. Can't let those "Battle-Hardened" troops get away, y'know...

We NEED them on the Line!
Some of these recruiting ads are pretty desperate. Marines, Army, all working on a theme of "Be a MAN! ENLIST!"

The Marines have that kid climbing a mountain to get his dress blues at the top and the Army has that ludicrous "You shook my hand, and LOOKED ME IN THE EYE!" spot that I have to see over and over at the movies.

I wish somebody could bankroll a series of "All he wanted was money for college." or "He wanted to provide for his wife and kids so bad he was willing to die to do it." ads.

I wonder if Rumsferatu has considered that he just might push these men and women so hard that they mutiny?

[atreides1]

15. Mutiny!!!!

Without a guarantee of a uncorrupted voting system, and the MSM leaning further and further to the right just to get ratings, perhaps a mutiny by the military is what's needed.

But it won't happen, why?, because in order to stand up and resist you have to have courage. The bravest person isn't the one who faces an enemy on the battlefield, the bravest person is the one who can say "this isn't right, and I'm not taking part in this anymore".

Sergeant Benderman is a brave man, braver then a Marine in the streets of Fallujah, the military needs more like him, and less of those who can kill on command.

Perhaps there are more Sergeant Benderman's out there? We can only hope!!!!


Better to die on your feet, then to live on your knees

[AndyTiedye]

47. That Would Make a Good Ad for the Jason Tharp Scholarship Fund

> I wish somebody could bankroll a series of "All he wanted was money for college."

That's all Jason Tharp wanted.
He didn't even make it to Iraq.
He drowned on Parris Island during "water survival training"
-- in the presence of six expert swimming instructors.

To make an example for the other recruits, perhaps?

Scholarship Honors Recruit Who Drowned
Posted 2/23/2005 03:51 AM
...
Story by The Associated Press

A scholarship fund has been established to honor the memory of a West Virginia Marine recruit who drowned earlier this month during water-survival maneuvers at boot camp in Parris Island, South Carolina. Jason Robert Tharp of Sutton was 19 when he died Feb. 8.

Video taken by a South Carolina television station shows a drill instructor yanking Tharp by the shirt and giving him a forearm one day before Tharp died. The drill instructor and four other Marines shown in the video to have witnessed the incident have been suspended until an investigation is complete.

Tharp was a 2004 graduate of Braxton County High School. He had said his goal in joining the Marines was to earn money to go to college to study art.

Contributions to the scholarship fund should be sent to:

Jason Tharp Memorial Scholarship Fund
Braxton County Board of Education
Attention: Treasurer
411 North Hill Road
Sutton, WV 26601

http://www.wboy.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=1153

[buddysmellgood]

14. Anyone feel that cold air blowing, almost like a...like a...?

[LisaL]

20. Draft? It scares me that they keep on saying how stretched

to the limit army is.

[leesa]

17. Rates of re-enlistment are EXcellent!!

[brentspeak]

18. I tried to enlist in Nov.2002

But they wouldn't take me (I was taking a medication).

Maybe it was God's way of protecting me from Bush.

[babsbunny]

24. What kind of medication?

I know that's a pesonal question, but my Son just turned 18 and we are scared!

[haele]

27. Class II's or prescribed anti-depressants used to get you out.

And they will show up on the entry physical bloodwork; Ritalin used to be the major hurdle for kids entering in the 1990's/early 2Ks.

I think that's gone by the wayside now. Just observation, but I think the recruiters are getting away with telling the kids they don't have to disclose, and hoping that the kid can go through Boot and infantry training before the symptoms get too bad and the kid has to get re-"diagnosed" to get back on his or her meds.
True, most kids don't need the meds they've been prescribed over adolescence to calm them down, but between environment and diet, there have been more and more kids that do need the medications, that would have just been dropped out by 9th/10th grade and left to working general labor all their lives in the decades before.

Now that most general labor jobs are gone for them, it leaves them the Military. :( I've seen a couple kids in uniform just out of Boot lately that look as though they were off their anti-depressants - there's a very distinct look and level of activity people that have done that show.

Haele

[brentspeak]

28. Paxil

an antidepressant.

[ninkasi]

29. I know a young man

who enlisted in the Marines while in high school. By the time he graduated, he had put on so much weight he still hasn't been sent to boot camp. The Sgt. says he has to lose weight first. Now, he doesn't want to go, so he's gaining weight, instead. This has been going on for two years now.

I pray that the draft doesn't return. We all know that the sons and daughters of the elite will never have to serve, it will be OUR flesh and blood, the sacrifices will be ours to make, while the rewards will go to the ones who caused the war in the first place.

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. Cohesive. I don't think I like that word.

I'm having a soccer mom fight with an Air Force soccer mom and she used that word to describe a Club team we're on. She said the parents were a "cohesive" group. I disagreed and told her that I have heard parents on the team make some extremely unsupportive statements when I tried to help other people's kids out with trainers. It's a very competitive team, and some of the most competitive parents DON'T want the other kids to improve because it takes away from their own kid's star power. One came out and blankly stated, "Don't help her." So, I made the comment to this Air Force mom that our team is NOT one big happy family, and her reply was, "I didn't say it was a happy family, I said it was a cohesive group."

So, what does "cohesive" mean in military talk?

[haele]

25. Cohesive in military terms means -

Works together as seamlessly as possible. In a cohesive unit, everyone is trained to the level of their ability, knows what their job entails, what the command structure is, and does their job(s) correctly. The leader leads and supposedly makes the right decisions most of the time, and the task on hand gets done with minimal casualties. Secondly - and just as importantly, in a cohesive unit, if there's an emergency, others in the group should be able to take charge. If the group was not cohesive, the "leader" becoming incapacitated will most likely cause the group to fall apart.

However, from your example, I don't think "cohesive" is probably the word your Air Force "mom" is thinking of. Especially since it sounds as if only the "superstars" are being sufficiently trained.

In a truly cohesive Club, everyone would get training, and the superstars would be encouraged to tutor the bench warmers so that everyone can come up to a sufficient level of expertise to be able to win a game if your starting line up comes down with the Chicken Pox.
My father, a former Air Force SSG turned to retired Navy Chief (like me), used to coach a championship AA High School Soccer Club - division champions every year for 12 years straight. State champions for eight of those 12 years. And everybody played at least five minutes in the middle of every game. His "bench" was always trained well enough that no one was "just a bench-warmer" unless they were recovering or making up poor grades. His attitude was that if they were aggressive enough to be on the team and good enough to know the basics, they had enough talent that could be used to better the team chances of winning if it were used in the right combination. It paid off - one State Championship season, eight of his starters did come down with the Chicken Pox within two weeks of each other halfway through the season and were out for a good two-three months. He won the Championship with three of his best starters still out.
He couldn't stand "superstars" - and when they took too much of his effort from the team to cater to their whims, he'd encourage them to go somewhere where they could be "sufficiently challenged".

My experience in the military - the Navy and by observation, the Marines and Coast Guard - is that a good, cohesive unit has a leader with a similar attitude towards "their men" as my father did to his team. And when I ran units, I had the same attitude.

So the mom who told your club trainer "don't help her" might have been screwing her own daughter out of developing a teammate who could be counted on to set up her little "superstar's" run at the goals, or creating a good, solid fullback to help protect the team goalie in a pinch.

Cohesive units know that while there may be only one "I" in unit, when it comes down to it, there is no "I" in team - and while there is a leader, a cohesive unit still must work as a team to attain their goals.

I hate parents who live out their aggressions through their child. F***s the kid up big time.

Haele

[The Backlash Cometh]

34. Oh, wow! What a great explanation.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I see things a whole lot clearer now.

You are absolutely right that our Club team is not cohesive, especially not in the way you describe. The whole problem started with the new coach. A couple parents recommended him and the rest of us went along with it. No sooner was he in, that he started a system of favoritism and cronyism. First, he acted like he was creating a "cohesive" group and required the whole team to undergo continual social bonding rituals. Between the soccer schedule and the bonding rituals, the girls never had time for a social life outside of the club team. But by Spring, he started to play favorites. No surprise, the parents who recommended him received the most attention; and no surprise, those kids always set themselves apart from everyone else during the bonding rituals. He actually walked around claiming he only needed one Mia Hamm, to justify the attention he was bestowing on one particular parent's child.

It certainly helped her game, and she did turn into a superstar. But then she popped her ACL and the team was struggling once again. We went from a team that had depth, to one who depended on the superstar to score.

Thank God the high school season came upon us, and other coaches, who may not be as ambitious, but who did understand team development better, took over. My daughter seems to have recovered a bit from the year where she was held back to give time and position to the superstars. Her high school coach has military experience and with his encouragement, she has just played the best season of her career.

I think I would have liked your dad as a coach:

"He couldn't stand "superstars" - and when they took too much of his effort from the team to cater to their whims, he'd encourage them to go somewhere where they could be "sufficiently challenged". "

[tabasco]

22. Where are the FREEPERS?!?

The Army is desperate for recruits to go to Iraq and FIGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM !!

Where the hell are all of these self-proclaimed patriots from the internet??

Based on the amount of their stuff on the net, I guess there must be millions of them.

GET TO THE RECRUITERS COWARDLY FREEPERS ! THIS IS YOUR WAR, COWARDS !

[lostnfound]

33. I think there's still a minimum IQ requirement..? nt

[BrotherBuzz]

36. The military is now accepting Category Four

Surely there must be a few freepers that fall into that class. :shrug:

[Javaman]

49. I think they are accepting morAns, now. n/t

[lostnfound]

37. My apologies to anyone that I might have offended

It just occurred to me how unkind my comment was towards those struggling with disabilities in themselves or family members.

[saigon68]

50. Didn't offend me

[grasswire]

23. involuntary servitude should be unconstitutional

I thought it was.

[haele]

26. They can't recruit them, they can't draft them, and no one's re-enlisting

If you have a family, $30K is not enough to be risking your life again for another 2 years "incountry", no matter how much you want to help out your buds. Especially when it's obvious that you are worth the same as a little Risk army piece to the powers that be.

"We're doing good things" still doesn't outweigh all the bad things - the deaths and injuries, the constant miserable environment, the creeping paranoia, the hatred you are receiving from the locals, the snubs from the much higher paid, better equipped mercs that you see doing what they want without the constraints of following the UCMJ.

I think they do want to break the ground troops. I think they want to make sure that those who survive are the ones who will just follow orders without question, that are afraid of their leadership, that are hard enough that they can't do anything other than the Army.
They don't want soldiers to come back and question what the Corporations were making the military do in Iraq - and Iran, and Syria as well as in Afghanistan. They don't want to allow another John Kerry or Ron Kovacs to come back and tell it like it really is. That didn't really happen in Kosovo, Haiti, "Gulf War I - Kuwait" or in any of Reagan's little adventures, so I think they're becoming unpleasantly surprised.
They see what's come back so far, and they don't like the fact that there are so many Iraq "war" vets coming back and actually speaking out and - gasp - running as opposition party members.

So until the numbers get down low enough that they have to draft or nuke, they don't want anyone else coming back and telling the US how badly the Neo-Con "CEO at war" strategies suck and how much they're losing. Hint to you Neo-Cons - Sun Tzu was not a corporatist dealing with numbers and scores, he was a WARRIOR who understood what life and death really mean to the average person. Risking your bonus waging war on Wall Street isn't the same as risking your life waging war house-to-house.

That's the only reason I can see for the actions Rumsfeld's DoD is taking. He's already purged most of the real military, so he has no real strategists with real world experience to bring them back to reality. Just think-tanker and political suck-ups who think of war as a game to win or something to get rich from.
That's one of the things that sunk the Soviets in their twenty year war in Afghanistan. With no locals or mercenaries with real experience to strategize or fight their war, they were on their own - and it sucked them dry.

Haele

[joefree1]

30. Wonder what they will do when we start figthing Iran, ... oh wait

We already are.

[Poll_Blind]

31. They're converting lots of these soldiers into peacniks, BIGTIME.

"Enlist and we'll rape you for everything we can squeeze out of you and put your ass on the line as long as we want! HA HA HA!"

Talk about a great way to convert hundreds of thousands of gung-ho soldiers into scarred men who will do anything to prevent being sucker punched again...


PB

[lebkuchen]

32. Today's Stripes headline: Bush asking for cuts in Army Reserve

I guess it's just too touchy to print the 50,000 extension just as we're deploying divisions for 2nd/3rd year deployments. Best to "make quota" on army reserve recruitment by lowering the number needed to make quota.

That still isn't going to give Bush his "boots on the ground," and I remain fascinated as to how he plans to attack Iran without nuking it.

[lovuian]

35. Bush is the volunteers army worst nightmare

what use to be a great opportunity has ended up being a slave to Bush's war machine...

I have two nephews who enlisted my heart breaks for this boys because they were so naive...

[tanyev]

38. I'm sure that's really helping morale...

:sarcasm:

[fedsron2us]

39. I expect Bush and company were humming the Bells Of Hell

when they made that announcemenent

The Bells of Hell

The bells of hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling,
For you but not for me,
And the little devils how they sing-a-ling-a-ling,
For you but not for me.
Oh death, where is thy sting-a-ling-a-ling,
Oh grave, thy victory?
The bells of hell go ting-a-ling-a-ling
For you but not for me.

[rodeodance]

45. and Rummy was on the tube last week with his usual bunk!

[HuffleClaw]

46. i don't like it or approve of it

but it IS a part of their contract. a rather unpleasant part to be sure, but part of it nonetheless. i'd say this speaks to those recent revelations about the state of the military than anything else.

[Massachusetts]

48. DON'T FORGET

THAT THESE ARE OUR TROOPS AND OUR DEFENSE THAT THESE TREASONOUS BASTARDS ARE ABUSING! WHERE IS THE CHORUS OF OUTRAGE THAT WE SHOULD BE HEARING FROM OUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES, FROM THE PSEUDO NATIONALISTIC AMERICANS (SUPPORT THE TROOPS RIBBONEERS)?

MURTHA ET AL CAN'T BE THE ONLY ONES WHO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING.


"I CAN FEEL THE SHAKE DOWN COMIN BABY"