Workers Have Retirement 'Overconfidence'

[NVMojo]

NEW YORK (AP) -

The majority of American workers think they'll be able to retire comfortably, but most aren't saving nearly enough to meet that goal, according to a new study.

The Employee Benefit Research Institute's annual retirement confidence survey, released Tuesday, found that about 68 percent of workers are confident about having adequate funds for a comfortable retirement, up slightly from 65 percent in 2005.

At the same time, more than half of all workers say they've saved less than $25,000 toward retirement, according to the Washington, D.C., based research group. Even among workers 55 and older, more than four in 10 have retirement savings under $25,000.

"`Overconfidence' is the word that comes to mind," said Jack VanDerhei, co-author of the study.

more...

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/invest-corp/2006/apr/04/040402897.html

[Sammy Pepys]

1. That 55 and over number is scary...

I can understand that younger workers might not have made it to a balanace of $25K or greater yet...but if you're ten years out or less from retirement you need to get your ass in gear.

[Nederland]

2. Typical Boomers

They didn't listen to the words of their own song: don't stop thinking about tomorrow.

[Le Taz Hot]

8. Well, thanks so much for making those generalities

Actually, I did listen and had quite a little nest egg. Until my husband lost his job LAST YEAR and still hasn't found one to replace it. All it takes is ONE catastrophic illness or loss of a long for the long-term. But no, you must be right. We're ALL lazy and stupid. :puke:

[Nederland]

12. I'm sorry for you

but I'm not sure your situation is typical.

[sinkingfeeling]

15. It is typical for several reasons. No. 1 is that when I joined the work

force in 1969, there weren't any such things as 401K's or IRAs. If you were lucky or a union member, you were promised a pension by your employer. We were told over and over how pensions were delayed compensation. And then there was Social Security. It wasn't until the late 1980's that they began to talk about the '3-legged stool' of retirement. SS, pension, and private savings in a 401K.

My pension income was reduced by my employer in 1995 and again in 1999. Then the last 3 years of my employment there wasn't put into the pension calculation....net loss $600 per month. I did retire after 30 years. That was 3 years ago and I took another job 4 months afterward. I'm now dumping the max into my 403 government account with matching contribution from my state employer. I'm also 58 years old.

Who knows about Social Security. Ronnie boy told us boomers to just pay more into it in 1983(?) and then we would have a surplus of funds for us boomers. But now we know that the GOP is the party of liars.

[pitohui]

19. why wouldn't it be typical?

prob. the majority of families or at least a large minority of them will experience ill health or prolonged unemployment at some point in the worker's 30s, 40s, or 50s

after 40, job discrimination in the work place is a reality, as are health challenges that can impact your ability to work or get hired


i don't think anyone is interested in being felt sorry for, i think they are more interested in a frank appraisal of reality

many people are not in a position to save any great lump sum of money for retirement, that's why god and fdr gave us social security

[Nederland]

23. because unemployment is under 5% (nt)

[jwirr]

28. Unemployment may be under 5% but a lot of those jobs are

underemployment.

[converted_democrat]

32. I don't believe for a minute that unemployment is at 5%...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=827442

[Nederland]

47. Fair enough

But even if unemployment is 12% as your link argues, the described position is still not typical and so my comment stands.

[converted_democrat]

59. Your argument was that the reason why the situation was not typical

was because the unemployment was at 5%, that was your argument, remember?? I don't think you are looking at the situation very logically, and I think you're missing the bigger picture.. Unemployment is high.. Under employment is high.. The number of corporations defaulting on their pensions is staggering.. (Which shifts the burden to the American people, away from corporations, and the people receiving the pensions receive far less than what was originally agreed upon..) Half of all personal bankruptcies are due to illness, and thanks to the new Bankruptcy bill, economic recovery is tougher than ever.. Many people lost a lot of money in the market in 2001 after 911, and many lost a lot in the dot com fiasco.. Many Americans are one paycheck away from serious financial straights.. How can one save, when one can't pay the bills for necessary items to begin with? The US is at a negative savings rate.. Outsourcing is running rampant, and the recent jobs that have been created are low paying service industry jobs.. The cost of health care, energy, drugs, and food have gone through the roof, with no relief in sight.. I don't understand how anyone could think that the typical economic picture for the middle class could be classified as anything but grim..

[Nederland]

62. Close, but not exactly

Yes, I stated that the reason why the situation was not typical was because the unemployment was at 5%. However, the statement is equally true if unemployment is 12% or even 17%. The bottom line is, unless a sizeable majority of people have experienced what the poster described (i.e. being laid off and unable to find another job), the situation is not typical. That's simply the definition of the word typical. Look it up.

My comments stand.

[converted_democrat]

64. The situation for many, most through no fault of their own is grim..

The OP article states that many are not able to fund their retirement, and I was merely trying to explain to the more dense among us why it is a wide spread issue.. The situation of not being able to fund retirement is typical..

All I was pointing out was what YOUR response was to a question, and let you know the various reasons why it is such a wide spread problem..

Edited to be less confusing for those who have issues grasping the obvious..

[dysfunctional press]

97. no fault of their own???

i would have to argue that too many people in this country feel that they are entitled to a certain level of comfort or affluence, and therefore live at the very limit(or even beyond via credit) of their means- multiple cars, multiple tv's, satellite tv, multiple phones/cellphones...and on and on- with no real concern about saving for the future, so much as spending for today.
and when the savings aren't there for retirement- it most definitely will be their own fault- due to the lifestyle that they choose to live now.

[converted_democrat]

75. The editing time ran out on the comment I just made above, so I'm

going to post this here.. YOUR argument was that it wasn't a typical problem, because unemployment is at 5%.. I stated that I believe unemployment is higher than that (through the link), and in the next post I pointed out that not being able to fund retirement is a typical problem. Then I went on to explain the various reasons why it is a typical problem.. So, I don't see how any of your argument stands..

[Nederland]

86. Nice try

but I never said the "problem" was typical. I said the "situtation", i.e. losing a job and not finding a new one for more than 6 months, was not typical.

Nice try though.

[Tight_rope]

60. I second that BULLSHIT about unemployement is at 5%...more like 17%

[RaleighNCDUer]

49. Bullshit.

Just cause the government says so, doesn't make it true.

There are many sources (I'm sure the good people here have links) that say the real unemployment rate is 8+%. And the jobs at Wallyworld and McPukes that would be filled by teens, as their first jobs, are now being filled by seniors, after retirement -- keeping those teens OUT of the unemployment figures because they've not yet been employed.

Don't believe ANYTHING that this government tells you.

[lumberjack_jeff]

55. A smaller percentage of the population is working...

than in 1999.

Some of those people have just stopped looking for work. The unemployment rate is not useful to describe the employment situation which has been depressed for 5 years.

[pitohui]

73. i don't think you understand statistics

of course everyone who is unemployed is not all unemployed at the same time!

you can have 5 percent unemployment and still most all of us, in the course of a long lifetime, will very likely go through an extended period of unemployment lasting months or even in some cases years

it is just the nature of things my friend

[Nederland]

85. i don't think you understand statistics

...although you do seem bright enough to pick up on the fact that a 10% unemployment rate does NOT mean that no more than 10% of the working population lost their jobs. Obviously more than 10% of the people could have lost their jobs and, providing that the job losing was spread out over time the rate might never get that high. That is a good observation on your part.

However, I don't think you thought your point completely through. Remember what we are talking about: we are talking about whether losing your job and not finding a new one over 6+ month period was a typical experience for baby boomers over the last year. As I stated earlier, by typical I meant more than 50%. I believe if you think about it, you'll realize that it is statistically impossible for more than 50% of all baby boomers to have lost their jobs and not found new ones for more than 6 months without the official unemployment numbers rising to a level much higher than they did. Work out the math and you'll see I'm right.

Nice try though, you're smarter than most people here.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

92. You are moving the target

Remember what we are talking about: we are talking about whether losing your job and not finding a new one over 6+ month period was a typical experience for baby boomers over the last year.

Ahh, so now we're talking about those who lost their job just over the last year. Pretty soon we'll be talking about baby boomers who lost their job over the last year who post to DU under the username Le Taz Hot. You certainly won't lose your argument that way...at least in your mind.

As I stated earlier, by typical I meant more than 50%.

I would describe something that happens to a third of people (33%) to be fairly typical. In fact, I would say that a majority (which does mean more than 50%) of people would not say 'typical means more than 50%'. More moving target.

For everyone else, the argument was that over the working life of a baby boomer, it is common for that person to find themselves out of a job for an extended period during which time they either spend a large chunk of their savings or take on a lot of debt, which has the same net effect on their eventual retirement savings. I would agree with this.

On the other hand, that doesn't mean that I entirely disagree with your original generalization. I think that it is common for people to live beyond their means with not nearly enough thought about retirement. Part of that is because they expected decent retirement packages and/or social security to help them out and then they don't end up getting what they were told to expect. The other part is that companies pay big bucks to convince people that they need all of the consumer crap we buy and not enough people have the (un)common sense to quit buying it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

54. It doesn't sound typical because you lack experience.

Death, illness, job loss, divorce - it happens.

Ever notice how older folks are often less judgemental? It's 'cuz they've been around. Ignorance isn't a sin, but knowing enough to know that you are is a virtue.

Personally, I lost half of my retirement in the dot-bomb. I'm a better investor now.

Luckily, it appears that the delay of the Social Security trust fund report implies that Social Security is solvent.

[Nederland]

63. No

It has nothing to do with experience, it has to do with the objective facts. In this case, the objective facts say you are wrong. The situation described is not typical because it doesn't happen to most people. Do some people lose their jobs and find it impossible to find another one? Yes. But is that situation typical? No.

If you want to find me proof that a majority of older people have lost their jobs and not been able to find another one, then have at it. Until I see some proof however, my comment stands as correct.

[converted_democrat]

65. The poster that you just replied to, like me, tried to point out various

reasons why not being able to fund a retirement is widespread issue.. It is a typical problem.. Many, though no fault of their own, can not fund their retirement..

Edited to make clearer..

[AnneD]

66. I beg to differ......

I started saving at 25. A little every month, more as my income went up. Thank God I did, it was the only way I was able to make it through the economic downturn in the mid to late 80's. It took over a year to find just a parttime job (went from working in the Oil Industry to selling furniture for 1/10th the income). I used some to go back to school and retrain as a Nurse at 37.

I continued to work, support myself and my daughter, and began to build up my saving again-even on my modest salary (I work in education). I even had a nice nest egg of 23k (after 8 years of saving) in a 403b and I was 45. The came the DOTCOM correction. Within a few months I was down to 12k. Almost four years of saving and interest gone in 4 months.

Then I continued saving something but got into a nasty custody fight and lost. So now I have to pay half of my current income in child support. Now on the half ($1000) I have left, I pay rent, utilities, lawyer, credit card debt (tore those up 3 yrs ago and am cash only). Let's see....how much can I put away for my retirement???? I think I have a nickle left over. Thank goodness I only have 2 yrs left on the support but I will be 54 years old then. There can be a dozen different situations and they are all typical.

I am lucky in that I went to work for the state and will get a defined benefit pension-but I would be so screwed without that....And I am a saver. I have not pissed money away. And frankly I think what comes across as a generalizing, smug attitude needs to be modified, Nererland. It has become increasingly difficult for even the most dedicated of saver to manage in this economy. And all it takes is one misstep, one unfortunante incident to undo years of effort. A little more compassion on your part would be appreciated. After all, there but for the grace of God....

[InkAddict]

95. It is very typical!

So be very careful with your health in this toxic American environment, or that sumptious retirement of YOURS will be all she wrote! The big "they" can change the rules on you, too!

While there were many who were "middle class" by education/occupation before Ray-gun, his policy of deregulation took the locks off corporations' Pandoras Boxes and allowed the vipers to escape further oversight. Whole industries were outsourced away from the US, and workers in their prime earning years for purposes of savings/SS/were forced to dig into savings to maintain their modest mortgages, care for chronically ill parents, foot the ever upward bills for college beyond tuition for themselves and/or kids. Let's not forget childcare expenses for working parents--not every grandparent wanted the tikes underfoot just so Mom & Dad could build a nestegg for whatever. Perhaps it's also a matter of the length of time one's ancestors have been Americans. Meanwhile, GOP platforms have successfully gutted services actually designed to protect the unfortunate among us and left our children academically handicapped through funding formulas of public school districts that favored the already rich, those already quite capable of providing a stimulating learning path for kids. I could go on and on about how these PIGS have enriched themselves at the expense of what once was middle class America. BULLY FOR YOU!

[DBoon]

13. a 401k has become an all-purpose replacement for a social safety net

it is supposed to be for retirement, but the fact is they get broken into because of serious illness or extended unemployment.

It's not just the retirement system that's broken, it is our entire social welfare system

[ColonelTom]

44. I don't mean this to be unsympathetic

There is long-term disability or catastrophic illness insurance that individuals can buy. I know it's too late in your case, and I'm terribly sorry to hear your situation. But for others reading the board, if you can at all afford it, PLEASE consider purchasing such insurance as part of your long-term financial planning.

[RaleighNCDUer]

50. Long term financial planning?

Like, planning on paying the rent next month?

People are going without BASIC health insurance. 45 million of them. And they are to come up with long-term disability or catastrophic illness insurance?

It it not for lack of planning or careless disregard. It is a lack of capability.

[ColonelTom]

51. Which is why I said "if you can at all afford it"

Yes, it's horrible that we can't all have the necessary coverage in the current system. You're preaching to the choir here.

My point was that in this less-than-ideal world in which we live, long-term disability insurance is available at a cost, and it shouldn't be considered a "luxury item." If you can at all afford it, you should consider getting it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

52. Whoops. You're right. I was reading faster than I was

comprehending.

I quite agree.

[ColonelTom]

70. No problem - it's all good :)

Well, except for the whole 45 million without health care... that isn't good!

[Tight_rope]

61. I understand your point...but are we to insurance everything!

If that were to be the case then we would have nothing to live on. Think about it!

Auto Insurance
Home Insurance
Health Insurance
Dental Insurance
Death Insurance
Long-term disablity Insurance
Short-term disablity Insurance
Renters Insurance
Life Insurance
Life Insurance on the kids
Catastrophic illness Insurance
Flood Insurance
Tornado Insurance Insurance
Hurricane Insurance
Mud slide Insurance
Earthquake Insurance
Travel Insurance
Theft Insurance
Hull Insurance
Credit Card Insurance
Specialty Insurance and more

What will we pay the bills with let alone buy food with?

[ColonelTom]

72. "Tornado insurance insurance"?

Well, I guess the policy documents could blow away in the tornado... B-)

[RawMaterials]

78. don't for get Identity theft Insurance

thats the new one they are starting to push

[pitohui]

74. no there really isn't, coloneltom

most people cannot afford long-term disability and many people who are private insured cannot buy disability insurance at any price

you would be surprised what people aren't allowed to buy disability insurance

i mean, sure, you would guess that a person in a dangerous occupation (my tree surgeon) can't find an insurer, but did you know that when i was working as a professional writer that i could not buy disability insurance either because apparently a shockingly high number of writers become permanently unable to work in their field because of repititive motion injuries (carpal tunnel)

maybe YOU have access to such insurance but i would bet the majority of the population doesn't because they are not eligible due to risk factors, age, occupation or because the cost of such an insurance (and it isn't cheap) has sky-rocketed in their state and age group

[raccoon]

57. Self delete nt

[Warpy]

11. Asshole employers routinely stole the pension contributions

that boomers made for roughly the first 20 years of their working lives until that law was changed. Everything they'd contributed to the company plan simply reverted to that company if they changed jobs. Corporations have been stealing boomers blind for decades by doing that and by still considering pension plans their private piggy banks even after the law was changed.

So don't blame workers for the sins of corporations. Learn some damn history.

[bunkerbuster1]

41. Asshole employers switched from defined pensions to 401ks

...in droves in the late 80s/early-mid 90s. A lot of people who'd been working ten years or more found themselves getting rather pitiful lump sum payouts from the defined pension plans.

Some of us did ok with our 401k investments, some didn't. And some of us wound up working contract gigs or other full-time employment that offered no health insurance.

A lot more people will be in this situation in the years ahead, if our Democratic "leaders" don't start pushing for universal healthcare coverage NOW.

[shrike]

46. The former president of our union

fixed it so they COULDN'T break into our pension funds. Got the best lawyers he could find. They keep trying to break into it, and my greatest fear is that somehow, someway, they'll find a loophole. But so far so good.

And our union ex-president, now deceased, was a Mao communist.

[Ernesto]

58. This retired UNION Sheet Metal Worker, baby boomer

only grossed $80k with pensions & very part time (less than 100 hours) of consulting work. Shit, imagine what I could have made if only I was not a lazy, stupid baby boomer!

[shrike]

81. The average American has no idea

what a union can do for him/her, do they?

[llmart]

24. Please don't denigrate all boomers.......

I've said it before here on DU, they would like everyone to believe that it's all boomers fault. I'm a boomer and I've been an avid saver all my life. I don't spend a lot of money. I have a pretty good savings amount. But it can all be gone in a flash if my husband or I have a catastrophic illness or a lingering illness. Don't be so smug. And what about those of us who did max our 401K's and IRA's and were doing pretty well until the Repugs stole office and everything spiralled out of control?

[phylny]

36. Interestingly enough, my husband works for a large, "evil" corporation,

and we are in very good shape when he chooses to retire.

So, while the rest of the country hates them, I'm at least grateful that they still have a pension plan, 401K, savings plan, and we'll have health insurance in our old age.

[SoCalDem]

39. Here's hoping the company does not get sold to another company

Usually the first to go are the retiree benefits, because it'e so easy to do..and the feds will step in and "protect" them for 25cents on the dollar..:eyes:

[AnneD]

68. I am very happy for you....

but retirement is to important to risk. It shouldn't depend on whether you work for a good company or not. And as mentioned, many retirees are screwed in a by out. Watch your company and money like a hawk. Retirement money should be sacrosanct.

[phylny]

76. Oh, I agree with you.

He's survived several "downsizings," a merger, and now his facility will probably close, although since they moved us a year and a half ago, they've promised to move us back into relative safety. I cannot WAIT for him to take the money and run. I trust them not.

[DeltaLady]

84. Gee, I thought the same thing when I worked for Bell n/t

[Marthe48]

45. We planned, husband retired early

got a part-time job and I've been working since the kids got their driver's license many years ago. We were doing really well, saving money, doing some investing, feeding the IRA. Then ORMET, where my husband retired from, came up for contract, company wanted to change the retirement benefits, the active employees went on strike, a few months later, ORMET declared bankruptcy, Federal Judge Barbara Sellout, I mean Sellers, allowed ORMET to open the contract we retired under, and gut the health benefits. And ORMET closed the plant my husband worked in and sold the equipment to some other company to ensure that the mill will never again operate as an aluminum rolling mill, thus eliminating about 500 jobs in the Ohio Valley. The plant had been in continuous operations since about 1958. The other plant remains on strike.

We have gone from paying out about $1000.00/yr to between $12,000 and 15,000.00, just like that. That takes about 75% of the pension my husband was receiving. We haven't saved any money the last year, and when I saw the numbers doing taxes, I saw why.

All of you younger workers--don't listen to promises--get your cash in your paycheck and save it yourself. Any company that promises retirement benefits is lying through its teeth and if you don't take care of yourself, you'll work til you die, another ruined life brought to you by the GOP and corporate greed.

[Ernesto]

82. "--don't listen to promises--"

That's the key phrase. My Union, like most construction unions, collects retirement funds from employers every month. The money goes into a union controlled retirement fund: No employer's hands on our pension savings!

[SoCalDem]

3. Just realism.

People who don;t make a lot of money, have a hard time saving the same money they need to LIVE on.. Money cannot be in two places at once..

During the "family years", there is often NO extra money to save..so by the time the kids are grown and gone, and it's time to really start saving, outsourcing rears its ugly head and then granny moves in..Mom quits her job to take care of Granny, and then a kid WITH a kid moves back after a divorce..


that scenario plays out millions of times in our "new economy"..

[NVMojo]

4. Hideous photos, SoCalDem! Scared me!!!

[havocmom]

10. Toss in fact that many had employers who promised pensions

and that promise was part of their compensation for years/decades of loyal work for the employer. So, OK, not paid as much now so can't save much, but the boss promises to take care of that and help me out with a pension after I have worked here for ** years. Only many of those employers, faced with having to come across with the pensions for many real soon, suddenly file for bankruptcy. Dumping their obligation onto the taxpayers (the very same workers who wanna retire soon) via the US pension guarantee fund, which will not pay out the same amounts workers were expecting.

[llmart]

25. This happened to my husband......

A very established, old company went bankrupt and the employees had to sue to get their pension money which was then prorated. After 12 years of service and ten years for the courts to make a settlement, we got $5100! Big f***ing deal.

[DELUSIONAL]

5. It is impossible for many to even save much at all

Higher med insurance, (or no health insurance) higher gas prices, wages not keeping up with inflation (inflation data is being fudged by the current administration). Plus children are very expensive -- I don't know how people with children can save anything. Then there's college -- but then the GOP fix for this is to promise college loans to join the military.

I expect that many people will never retire -- they will be working (baggers at grocery stores or Walmart greeters) until the die.

We don't have children -- we don't have debts -- we drive old cars/trucks -- we own our house -- crappy and little but it's all ours. We can retire on time.

[Delphinus]

38. Not just children, Delusional,

but parents, too, are expensive. I don't even work full time (well, let's say I don't get paid for all my work), I'm paying catastrophic health insurance (just hospitalization - no real health insurance), the higher gas prices even with an economical car, and have to help my mom out - doing this leaves nothing to pad my savings account with.

I know I'll never really retire - I'll be working at something until the day I die. Unless, of course, I win the lottery! :)

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. I have considerably less than $25K, and 13 years to retirement

and I am NOT confident about it.

But my options are somewhat limited as most months I have less than $100 remaining out of my pay that is not already spoken for. And every three or four years I get hit with medical expenses that devastate my regular savings.

I'm looking at only my 401K, State Retirement, and SS. My 401K lost half its value in the last 4 years; the state stopped paying into retirement 3 years ago; and * it trying to eliminate SS.

"Good morning. Welcome to Wal-Mart."

[TX-RAT]

22. My 401K lost half its value in the last 4 years;

What the heck are you invested in? and why haven't you moved it?

[llmart]

26. Don't be so harsh.....

and don't judge others' situations on the basis of yours. Some employers don't offer many options to pick from in their 401K's. Big companies can offer more, but where I work there are only a few basic options and you're stuck with them.

[recidivist]

101. TX-RAT's question was perfectly fair.

Yes, the late 90's stock market bubble was intoxicating, and the correction was brutal. The Dow peaked in April of 2000 and then sank like a stone for almost three years. FWIW, the timing was politically delicate. Had the peak been six months later, Al Gore would probably have been elected. But had the peak been six months earlier -- and the recession therefore six months further along -- Bush would have won in 2000 handily and would have escaped most of the blame for the recession. Oh well, ancient history.

Anyhow, that brings us to 2002. Since then, however, stocks have recovered very nicely. I too am curious how the previous poster could have lost half the value of his 401(k) since 2003.

I'm not saying it's impossible; just hard. The basic rules for Average Joe's investing in the market are pretty simple: income average in; diversify; think long term and don't try to time the market. Do that and over 20-30 years, you'll do reasonably well.

[Extend a Hand]

31. 2000 was a pretty brutal year

for people that were saving.

[On the Road]

7. I Can't Believe This

I'm worried to death even though I'll probably be relatively OK. The worst part of it is that no one knows whether Social Security will take a hit or by how much. Before SS the elderly poverty rate was 50%.

[BiggJawn]

9. The only "overconfidence" I have is....

...that I'll be able to keep working till I die.

Maybe the ReTHUGlican's kids will reinstitute the County Farm and Poorhouse by then, so I'll at least have a Hot and a Cot.
Fucking Robber Barons.

[redwitch]

16. We figure if we take a late retirement (try never) and an early death

we'll just about squeak by.
County workhouse is OK, but can they make it a Hot and a Cot and a Cat? Must have a kitty, plus,, they'll keep the rats out of the sacks of dry gruel.

:pals:


I took time out to raise our kids, worked part time while they were small, tried to be there for all their important stuff, room mother, PTSA,
Hubby has always worked. We drive old clunkers, never take fancy vacations. Maybe I should have continued working full time straight through, I dunno. We seem to have not ever caught back up from that. Now it seems we always take two steps back for every step forward. Impossible to get ahead that way!

[SoCalDem]

17. Like looking in the mirror.. (my life & yours)

except that for an eight year period from 73-81 our oldest had 2-5 surgeries a year at Mayo Clinic. Even with insurance, paying that all off, left us with NOTHING at the very time most of our friends were starting nest eggs and buying houses.. We have been behind that 8-ball our whole lives.. I don;t expect it to get any easier.. We can only hope that we can die a painless and early death...before our money runs out :)

[redwitch]

18. Is your baby OK now? I am so sorry, such a worry!

Hubby's sister had major health issues all through childhood. My MIL never worked outside the home, she always had enough to do taking care of sis and the other 4.
BUT, my FIL had a pension and it was a time when one paycheck was sufficient.
My oldest is now in college and we have that expense on top of everything else. He is taking out some loans, but we are footing much of it.
I just can't bear the thought of my guys (2) coming out of college with thousands in debt that they will have forever.

:pals:

[InkAddict]

96. Don't worry; be happy!

All that will change when Wally-world opens its bank and Wally University! Certified!!! cart pushers or no job for YOU! Oh degrees from state schools--no good--gotta be a Wallyworld grad.

[AnneD]

69. My 'if all else fails' plan...

involves comitting a crime that will get me sentences to life inprisonment at Club Fed. Three hots and a cot plus health care. I don't mind working where they tell me and I promise I'll be a low escape risk.;)

[pitohui]

20. that is certainly a form of overconfidence

you may not be allowed to work until you die

look around you at all the people who are laid off in their 50s and are not able to get real jobs again

even if you are someone special and secure against that and your company could never go bankrupt or be acquired or whatever -- there are still health issues that arise after age 50


i have several friends who became too disabled to hold a job in their 50s

much less their 60s and 70s

health is never promised to us, chris and dana reeve used to look the picture of glowing outdoorsy good health, it just takes one bad break

well, i don't mean to rant at you, everybody here knows we need a better damn safety net

[newscott]

14. It's simple really

I'm extremely confident that I will never be able to afford retirement.

[CTyankee]

30. Yeah, you can. Get started

Put as much as you can aside each paycheck. Develop a budget to see where your money actually goes. That way you can look at discretionary spending and cut accordingly. I found that I was spending an inordinate amount on consumer debt 12 years ago and cut that out by paying off my credit card each month. Budgets help. They are empowering and I know that sounds weird but it is true. You get a good picture and you find where you can save.

Good luck!

[yorkiemommie1]

21. we're in the upper 26%

and we still shop at 99cent places, etc, etc. i have NO confidence that i will retire comfortably. i expect to keep my parttime job for a loong time. ( it's a lot of fun for one thing! )

edited to add: went to AAA today for routine business, picked up some travel folders, brought them home, threw them away. I get seasick anyway, lol.

[llmart]

27. LOL!

Liked your last line. Hubby and I are in a decent salary range and I buy clothes at the Salvation Army. We keep our cars forever. I have everything I need. My kids are grown and doing well on their own. I picked up a brochure on cruising to Alaska and enjoyed looking at it - kept it for one week and then pitched it.

I'll get a DVD from the library on Alaska and enjoy the scenery. We're in our late 50's and I don't want to waste our money.

[yorkiemommie1]

33. late 50s that's me

and he is 67.

AAA was showing a cruise video and i kept saying ' that doesn't appeal to me' at every activity. except when we saw the buffet, well... that appealed!


in our universe whenever we spend on something 'frivolous' some real crucial expense comes up to bite us on the backside, so we've learned our lesson. anyway, i'd hate leaving the yorkies for too long.

our daughter is still trying to get on her feet here in SoCal and we try to help her out a little here and there. i'm glad your kids are doing well; our daughter has two college degrees but an auto accident ( a driver crossed a double double yellow line and nearly hit her headon ) really set her back. so...

when i was talking a while backabout *'s attack on SS and all, my fundie friend said, 'well, they'll think of something' ... i think maybe now, at age 63, and divorced, she is realizing that maybe she has been had. she has to keep working too and she is not good health.

btw, i have found LOTS of nice clothes at the Salvation Army too!

[llmart]

37. So sorry about your daughter.......

but that just points out the fact that you never know what life is going to hand you. My two children are not married and do well, but if they had an accident and couldn't work, we'd help them out. A friend of mine the same age as I am was in a bad auto accident a year ago and her life was so changed by it that she and her husband, who just lost his good job at an auto supplier, put their huge house on 7 acres up for sale and are moving to a 980 sq. ft. cottage. She said the accident was her "wake up call" but some people don't need a wake up call to realize they should be frugal.

I always said the top side of us baby boomers were going to get the shaft when we got nearer retirement age and now it's coming true. We're being used as a scapegoat for poor public policy. Instead of placing the blame where it belongs - squarely on the heads of the people in power who are undermining our safety net, they chant the meme of "baby boomers didn't save enough." There is plenty of money for these programs but they'd rather waste it on IraqNam.

btw, I laugh when one of my prissy co-workers wears the same red blazer I have and she bought hers for $200 at Talbots and I got mine for $2.00 at the Salvation Army! Since I do payroll I know what she makes and it's about 8 times less than my household's salary.

[CTyankee]

29. My parents "got rich slow"

Well, not rich, but they had acquired, over the years, a nice nest egg of invested money, wisely invested not any crazy stuff. I always thought they were kind of prissy and small thinking.

I now know that they were wise. I have inherited their money and it is one of 3 sources ofincome that I have, after my lifetime of full time work. I have a part time job, Social Security (which is considerable), and the investment income my parents had built over their lifetime.

Boy, it was a long haul for them. Years and years of putting money aside and then finding a safe investiment. It works!

For those of you in your 20s and 30s, start putting money aside now. Do as much as you can! Your money will magically increase and you won't even feel it! Live beneath your means. It's great. Buy the best you can at the best price you can get it.

That's my advice. It has worked for me over the last 32 years!

[SLCPUNK]

34. Oh my

I started my 401k this year (ten percent now, more later), will put my max into my IRA per year and have some small RE investments. I live below my means, and admit I am "cheap". I think "cheap" equals smart. To me, it is an intelligent way to live my life, as I do not want to bag groceries when I am 69 yrs old. I watch my friends go out and spend money every night. Those people save nothing, have credit card debt, and don't care. They say things like "You make money to spend it." I can only shake my head and do my own thing. I am 35 now and wish I had started earlier, but think I will still be ok. I would only worry about becoming ill down the road and having that wipe me out.

[CTyankee]

40. You are very smart

My big regret is that I didn't have the nonprofit equivalent of 401 k's back when I started working (already in my early 30s after having spent 10 years home raising 3 kids right after college). When the nonprofits started offering 403 b's I joined up, putting away only $25 a pay period, then upping it as I got better paid jobs.

STUFF YOUR 401k!!! That's what the affluent do. Research the best performing and lowest maintenance car to suit your needs and pay it off as early as you can. invest the money you would be using for car payment out of your pay into your 401k -- you got along without it before so you can now, too.

I also still clip coupons, use a gas rebate card (mine is good at any gas station). My credit card gives me points at a store I use. And I never charge morethan I can pay off completely right on time.

The biggest help I found was developing a budget. Some people are afraid that it will be scary, and I did too, but then I found it liberating! You can easily find your discretionary lines of spending and adjust (fewer new clothes vs. a big trip for instance). That happens magically when you create a budget!

I don't "live poor." I think I live quite well. But I do not have a chronic illness (and neither did my parents) and that helps enormously.

[melm00se]

91. investing

depending upon your age, your battle plan should be:


no debt, especially revolving debt..bad bad bad
live within (or below) your means
deposit the max that your employer will match in your 401K (or 403b or whatever, if available)
live within (or below) your means
deposit the max in a Roth IRA your income and marital status will allow (if you are under the age of 55 or if you plan on keeping the investments for at least 5 years) - tax free growth is a good thing
Did I mention live within (or below) your means
sock away any extra $$$ into quick liquidity investments, they may not pay much, but it is quick cash in case you need it

the key here is to pay yourself 1st and let the wonderful world of compounding interest work for you.

to those who say "I don't have the $$$", I submit to you, respectfully, that you can. $5 a pay period (1 starbucks coffee, less than 1 movie, less than 1 magazine, about the same as the cheapest commercial internet access) in an investment turning 6% (not an unreasonable amount). $5 a pay period (every 2 weeks) over a period of 30 years turns into ~$11k. that assumes no increase in contributions. No carving a few bucks out your tax refund (cut $100 out of your tax refund every single year equates to an additional $8K), or any change in your financial situation (not very likely).

If you are thinking to yourself, $11.7K, that won't mean anything in the long run....well, $11.7k is $11.7k and is 3.5x what you put in ($3900), that allows you an increase of monthly income of $38 per month for another 30 years.

[pitohui]

102. his advise was for parents to die and leave him an inheritance

read the post again, he has money because his parents DIED, they're dead jim

[pitohui]

100. your advise is for our parents to die?

dude, that is not advice that i'm willing to take or that i could do anything abt legally even if i was willing to take it

you said I have inherited their money

[cleofus1]

35. i will never retire

i will work until i fall over dead...

[leftyladyfrommo]

42. That's What I Thought and then I Got Fired

No one seems to want employees who are over 55. And what people don't think about is that they will lose their jobs several years before retirement.

[LostinVA]

43. Ha! Not me -- I firmly expect to have to live with my niece or nephew

It's why I'm so nice to them...

[shrike]

48. Latin America here I come

I'm serious; that's my back-up retirement plan.

I figure if nothing else I'll be able to see a dentist when my teeth (or upper plate) ache.

[Ignis]

56. Not a bad plan!

I've heard of more and more friends flying down to Latin America to have their dental work done recently. Given the outrageous prices charged by most US dentists, I don't blame them.

My greatest concern about retiring to LA or the Caribbean is how peak oil will affect those regions' ability to get industrial and medical supplies. Here's hoping that Cuba becomes a medical powerhouse in the next few decades and supplies CARICOM with all necessary medical supplies.

[AnneD]

71. Hubby and I talk about that a lot....

we are looking at many options. He tours as a muisician and we have friends all over the world. Many have invited us and we have been talking about it. Esp if the political climate here continues to decline.

[brooklynite]

53. It's not surprising that people think this...

I think a lot of people in America have a real disconnect with finances. Think about how many times Republicans can sell the notion that if you cut revenue to the Government (i.e. taxes) it will still have enough money to fund the same number of projects and services.

[Blue_Tires]

67. i can't even pay bills today (unemployed and too far in debt)

how in fuck's name can I even DREAM about saving for retirement? For me, (if i live that long) retirement will be selling everything i have here, buying a one-way plane ticket to a warm country with a low cost of living, and wind out my days on a beach somewhere

[leftyladyfrommo]

77. That doesn't sound like a bad idea.

I am unemployed, too. Have been thinking about Mexico. I think I could probably live pretty well for a long time there.

Its kind of a sad day when retired workers have to leave this country in order to survive.

[shrike]

80. See my above post

I was reading the other day about Nicaragua. They want to encourage expats to immigrate, and so will allow you to retire there if you are 45 years or older, and have a guaranteed income of $400 a month. And that's legal immigration. I've been told that plenty of gringos live in an S.A. country on a tourist visa, then cross the border once it's expired to get a new one.

[CTyankee]

93. I couldn't leave my kids and grandkids

It would be very difficult not to have such easy access to them.

I went to Sicily last December, in part because I couldn't stand George W. Bush's America for another minute. I found that I missed what life is about in America. It was beautiful in Sicily and I loved learning the history and enjoying the art and great food. But I was homesick, I guess. I wondered how it must have been for emigres who HAD to come here to escape tyranny abroad. How they must have missed their own country!

[KayLaw]

79. I think it's housing

People think their homes have increased a lot in value and will keep on going up. Why bother to save when they have all that equity? It's a shame. Also, a lot of people lost a lot of money in the stock market. About five years ago my father put $8,000 in an USAA mutual fund that was supposed to grow and help provide for my son's education. I can't remember its low but has now crept up to a little over $5,000.

[newblewtoo]

94. You are right

Lots of people are convinced they will be able to bail out of the Mac Mansion for big bucks an retire to the sunny south. So who is going to be able to afford all those mausoleums, the taxes and the upkeep, heating and cooling. I predict they will be a drug on the market.

Lots of people don't realize that there may be tax consequences to the IRA's and 401K's, its not all gravy.

Social security was never meant as a sole retirement.

[4dsc]

83. Be debt free and own your home

upon retirement and life will be alot easier. I believe many of the boomers are going to go into retirement with a heavy debt load.. That will kill them..

But then again, in less than 10 years, the US will have a major natural gas problem and many homes will go without so why save now!!

[ALago1]

87. Anyone ever read "Rich Dad Prophecy" by Kiyosaki?

Yeah, he leans a bit to the right on fiscal issues, but his thesis regarding the coming disaster due to a 401K crash is alarming. There is potential for these 401K plans to self-destruct leaving essentially nothing for retirement for boomers and everyone else with 401ks now.

Something to keep in mind now that there's no such thing as job security anymore...

[AnneD]

89. I read it again last year...

it was amazing what has come to pass just in this last year. When I first read it, I thought he was "out there". Boy, not now! I am lucky to have a pension, but even that may be in trouble if crooks get a hold of it.

[jdog]

88. For all those savers posting here...

aren't you worried about what will happen to your plans if the dollar tanks?

[AnneD]

90. It is a concern.....

that is why you spread your risk. Your dollar can spend here but not get you much overseas (or foreign goodies too expensive here). Have a variety plus precious metals. Spreading the risk helps.

[Deja Q]

98. With the cost of living skyrocketing; people who HAVE saved are worried.

You can do everything right... and still end up being wrong.

[Extend a Hand]

99. that is my fear

My husband is 7 years away from retirement...if the FED overinflates the money supply it could get really ugly-- and it sure does look like that's a possibility. I was reading an article recently about professional people in Zimbabwe..some had saved their entire lives and now a loaf of bread costs the equivalent of 66,000 dollars. :(

not much you can do if your government screws you like that

[pitohui]

103. of course there is something you can do

while over-savers will be rebranded as hoarders and you will find no sympathy for your plight i strongly suggest if you have money now one thing you can do is spend a percentage of it now

experiences you have now cannot be taken away from you

don't pennypinch and live for a retirement which is going to be taxed or means-tested so you don't come out ahead, save a little but spend a little

balance is the key