Gasoline Price Hits $7 a Gallon in England

[corporate_mike]

While Americans complain about $3-per-gallon gas, drivers in Britain and much of continental Europe wish they had it so good, according to a story in the Washington Post.

The average gasoline price in Britain has risen 19 percent since January 2005 to a national average of $6.48 a gallon. And many stations are charging well above that, with at least one in London's chic Chelsea neighborhood charging nearly $8 a gallon last weekend.

What's more, drivers in 11 European countries are now paying an average of more than $6 a gallon for gasoline, according to Britain's AA Motoring Trust. The disparity between European and American gasoline prices is accounted for by high taxes charged in Europe, where governments have long used gasoline taxes as an important source of revenue and as a policy tool to drive down oil consumption and reduce pollution.

Taxes account for about 66 percent of the pump price in Britain. Of the current average price per gallon of $6.48, about $4.27 goes to the government, while U.S. drivers pay an average of about 46 cents per gallon in combined state, federal and local taxes, according to the Tax Foundation, an independent organization in Washington.

http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyautoinsider/11068/gasoline-price-hits-7-a-gallon-in-england.html

[TheLeftyMom]

1. meh not such a big deal

As their public transportation system is excellent as opposed to the non-existent ones in most of the U.S. I asked my London based friend who commutes to Cheshire nearly every weekend to be with an ill relative how the gas price hikes were effecting the country and she said she thinks the U.S. press makes a bigger deal out of it than the Brits do.

[cliss]

14. 'Tis true.

We took a vacation to Sweden last summer. While we were in Stockholm, I noticed that there was public transportation everywhere. You could even choose: subway, or bus, or commuter train, or street car.

The city is divided into districts so you do not have to go across town to get your groceries or important things. Every area has its own centre, with a pharmacy, a fish market, video rental, pizza shop, everything. You really didn't need to go anywhere, even though the subway was really close. This is a godsend to elderly people.

There are plenty of cars in Stockholm. But if you insist on driving, they will make you pay. You have to pay car taxes, parking fees are out of this world. And gas is really expensive.

But here's the amazing part: Europe has more people than the U.S. Yet they use LESS THAN HALF of what the Americans use.

They say that when Peak Oil hits, the US will be floundering. Europe, however, will pull through just fine because they've gotten used to super-high gas prices and have adjusted. They have teeny-tiny little cars and mini-trucks.

They'll pull through better.

[Delphinus]

17. That's pretty amazing, cliss.

This looks like how America should be laid out - not the suburban sprawl we now are living with.

I've no doubt that your statement on Peak Oil is right on. After reading a lot of the works I have, I've thought the same thing myself.

[kestrel91316]

66. I've seen the miniature trash trucks in France.........very clean and cute

[tabasco]

16. Same with Germany.

My fiancee is 38 and she has never owned a car.

She certainly has enough money to get one. She just doesn't need one.

She takes the trains and buses everywhere.

[JawJaw]

45. Uk Public Transport

Thanks to the swathes of privatisation in the '80s and '90s much of the UK public transport system is far from excellent. OK in places like London, Manchester & Sheffield etc the public transport is good, bit you only need to live 10 or 20 miles further out & your public transport is quite likely to be expensive, unreliable, unpleasant, wholly inadequate or non-existent.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

80. Long distance public transport here is quite expensive.

In part due to Tony's privatisation scheme.

[William769]

2. It's like comparing apples & oranges.

Most of Europe has mass Transit. Probably all of Europe would fit with in the U.S.

[CottonBear]

11. They have health care and education too. n/t

[sweetheart]

19. Yes it does

http://www.photius.com/wfb1999/rankings/total_land_area_0.html

EU is: 3,892,685 sq.km.
http://www.answers.com/topic/european-union

Without Alaska, the US is between 8th and 9th largest land mass.

That said, no urban area in the EU is as large as the massive
US city megalopolises... so mass transit *should* work very well
stateside, more than the EU.

[William769]

21. With one exception

Most of the U.S. is rural.

[sweetheart]

24. The roads are better

Fedex still delivers by the clock, even in very remote parts of the US, but
this is not true of the EU at all. It takes days to travel between cities,
due to the spread out nature of many small-medium sized cities. In working
in a few years European sales support, i've found it MUCH easier to travel
about in the US. I can't say why, as there IS much public transport and all,
but getting between cities, between Reading and Hanover, Between Stockholm and
naples... The flights/connections are complex, often involving high speed rail,
and a net-difficult thing to book and navigate as easily as a homogenous air
transit system like in the US.

The US has much better roads, and this really helps in the end carriage.
By charging such high fuel duty, the EU is putting a tax on mobility, and
this has long term effects in terms of localism and regional identity that
reflect markedly with the US model.

Public transit may be better in the EU, but my anecdotal experience is that
distances are longer and more expensive to travel in this smaller EU, so
whatever public advantage is charged as a tax... the transport tax, and
it has long term cultural side effects i'm not sure whether are healthy.

[tabasco]

29. Most people in the US live in urban areas.

What are you trying to say?

[William769]

30. Most people live in Urban areas?

not where I have been.

[tabasco]

31. Have you been in every county in the United States?

http://www.elderweb.com/home/node/2836

Do you always make generalizations based on your own personal experience?

[William769]

32. Talk about ruptured facts!

2Urban areas include all urbanized areas (over 50,000 population) and Urban Clusters (2,500 to 49,999 population) as defined by the Bureau of the Census in the 2000 Decennial Census.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/planning/census/cps2k.htm

The City of Harlan In Kentucky has a population of 2,800, they have one red light and it's only a blinking one! And this is considered a urban area? :rofl:

[Terran]

33. You are ignoring part of the definition.

"The Bureau defines an urbanized area (UA) as consisting of adjacent, densely settled census block groups (BGs) and census blocks that meet minimum population density requirements along with adjacent densely settled census blocks where together they encompass a population of at least 50,000 people. Urban clusters (UC) have a similar definition however the overall population can be 2,500 to less than 50,000. The Census Bureau defines all other areas as rural."

http://www.raconline.org/info_guides/ruraldef/

I'm betting Harlan, KY, is not adjacent to any other similarly sized city (adjacent means contiguous with, not just near to). So no, it's not considered an urban cluster. Look it up man--the US attained a majority urban population in the *1920* census.

[muriel_volestrangler]

37. 68% of the US population live in urbanized areas

Urbanized Areas: 72,021 square miles; 2% of the total U.S. land mass; 68% of the total U.S. population; 192,323,824 people

http://rtc.ruralinstitute.umt.edu/RuDis/RuDemography.htm

[tabasco]

47. OK, let's just use your definitions for everything.

That way you can avoid being embarrassed in the future.

Hey look - - I'm laughing too !!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[ps1074]

35. just the facts

EU
3,892,685 km²
460 million citizens


USA
9,631,418 km²
300 million citizens

so, while EU is 2 1/2 smaller in territory than USA, it has 50% more people living there.

So, if US had the same density of population, it would be what... more than 1 billion living people in USA?

[sweetheart]

36. Facts distort

Alaska is 1.7m of those 9.6, so it is about 2 times.
London is Europe's largest city at 8m. Many american
metropolis' are larger, and with this concentration,
the opportunity for mass transit.

As well, significant areas are uninhabitable due to the
water supply limitations that are still hitting home
in western states.

Your math has left behind the geography.

[JVS]

67. Are you sure megalopoli are the most efficient ways to organize people?

And that they are best suited for public transportation?

I think there is a point where a city gets so large that increases in size bring diminishing returns as far as efficiency goes.

I've found smaller cities like this one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augsburg
easier to get around in than larger ones like this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich

[Spider Jerusalem]

27. Europe is larger than the United States.

By over three hundred thousand square miles.

And Western Europe is slightly larger or about the same in area as the contiguous 48 states.

The difference is in population density (Europe has more than twice as many people).

[regnaD kciN]

68. Not just mass transit...

...but everything is closer together there. Daily commutes of 30-40 miles each way, common in parts of this country developed after WWII, are practically unheard of in Europe.

When I was a kid, we lived in Geneva, Switzerland. Although our apartment was on the outskirts of town, it was still only about a twenty-minute walk to downtown. I used to walk to school, while my father walked to work -- and we both came back home for lunch (the main meal of the day there -- of course, "lunch hour" was more like two hours for everyone). If the weather was bad, we'd take the bus instead, since they came about every five minutes. We had a car, but only used it for weekends and vacations.

In that sort of environment, gas was a luxury item more than a necessity the way it is here in the U.S.

[liberal N proud]

3. And that will be the talking point from the repukes

It cost $7/Gallon in the UK so we should feel lucky. That plus freedom ain't free just might get a fundie punched.

[DBoon]

6. so then give us national healthcare

and we will feel even luckier!

[DS1]

4. And in England, an engine displacement over 2 litres is considered

a PHWOARRR! beast of a sports car. Different outlook on performance entirely, mostly because gas has always cost more, and people just walk more.

[bullimiami]

5. and dont even get our .46 cents worth out of it.

european governments charge a lot in taxes but give a lot in services.

our government is throwing 500 billion + each year into war and the military industrial cash cow.

[saigon68]

8. Cheney and the Generals= PIGS at the Trough

Their snouts deeply in the "Green Salad"

[Benhurst]

9. Just being part of The World's Only Superpower makes it all

worthwhile to me.

:sarcasm:

[aquart]

15. Except Russia and China are no longer afraid of us.

Thanks for leaving us naked to our enemies, George.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

28. "Oh, you don't have all those military goodies one would expect.

You skimmed so much off the top you forgot to consolidate your military might...Oh, and you're wearing out the might that you do have. Good thing you have Star Wars, comrade."

:rofl: :cry:

[madmom]

7. don't they go by the metric system, whereas the gallon is more like

5 quarts not 4 ? I'm not sure just wondering.:shrug:

[Tesha]

12. They used to use an "Imperial Gallon"...

They used to use an "Imperial Gallon" which was bigger
than our (what? Colonial :) ) gallon, but I think they're
now metricised so the petrol sells by the litre.

Imperial Gallon = 4.54609 L
U.S. Liquid Gallon = 3.785411784 L

(Several other gallons also exist(ed). And people
wonder why the rest of the world has gone metric!)

Tesha

[fedsron2us]

13. You are correct

Petrol retails by the litre in the UK and has been selling in the region of £0.95 to £1.00 per litre.
According to the wikipedia there are 3.785411784 L to the US wet gallon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallon

With a pound sterling curently trading at about $1.82 on the FX that means Brits are paying roughly $6.50 to $6.90 per US gallon. Most of the cost consists of duty levied by the UK government. It is true that British cars are generally more fuel efficient than those in the USA (e.g there are more diesels), that the UK public transit system is better (though it is inferior and more expensive than those enjoyed by its European neighbours) and that people probably walk more (but nowhere near as much as they used to do a couple of decades ago). However, the main reason high fuel proces do not impact so much on people in the UK is because the country is simply much, much smaller than the US. When no place on the landmass is more than 70 miles from the sea there is obviously a limit to the amount of petrol that is going to be consumed driving about.

[radwriter0555]

10. I paid $1.32 per litre today.. it cost $44 euro to fill the car up...

A little more than last year in the US.

[Yavin4]

18. Face Facts, Europe Is Better For The Common Person

Any way you want to measure it or look at it, the common person in Europe is far better off than the common person in the U.S. The situation changes dramatically when it comes to being wealthy. If you're rich, there's no better first world nation for you than the U.S.

[Spinoza]

58. Not if you want to find a job---

snip>" According to official figures, around 12 percent of the working population of the European Union (EU) is unemployed. Eighteen million European citizens, 5 million of them under the age of twenty-five, are officially looking for work. Relevant research institutes around Europe inform us that the number of unemployed is continuing to rise. It is estimated that, over the next two years, at least another half million people will join the ranks of the unemployed.

The precipitous rise in unemployment in Europe has caused huge social problems in recent years. The rupture of social cohesion, the marginalization of a large part of the labor force, and the fall in living standards for a significant number of European citizens have shaken the faith of Europeans in the European ideal, of "Social Europe," such that in some countries the supporters of Economic and Monetary Union now constitute a minority." <snip

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1093/is_n4_v41/ai_20974808

[leftchick]

69. I believe that is comparable

to the actual US unemployment rate. You know, the one before it gets fudged in the WH fuzzy numbers machine?

[Spinoza]

89. Interesting.

Do you have any real evidence to support your assertion that the U.S. unemployment rate, reported at about 5%, is really similar to the EU rate of about 12%? And if the US rate is more than twice as high as reported, as you claim, how do you know the European rate is also not severely underreported?

[Blue_Tires]

20. ttt n/t

[JPace]

22. "Taxes account for about 66 percent of the pump price in Britain."

That is a lot of taxes....wonder if all that money goes into supporting public transportation
or other social support systems that make life easier for the ordinary citizen.

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. It goes into general taxation

The money taken in from fuel taxes far outweighs the subsidies for transport.

# Public subsidy support for buses in England outside London currently cost about £1,100 million a year
# Public subsidy for rail is broadly similar even though the bus carries about five times the number of passengers and delivers far greater social inclusion benefits

http://www.cfit.gov.uk/factsheets/13/index.htm

# Fuel duties collected by Customs in 2002-2003 amounted to £22.1 billion, and they are predicted to amount to £22.8 billion in 2003-2004 and £24.4 billion in 2004-2005.

http://www.politics.co.uk/issue-briefs/road-fuel-duties-$3320486.htm

So public transport subsidies are about a tenth of the fuel duty. UK Fuel taxes are about two thirds of the price - so the subsidy is about one fifteenth of $6.40, or 40 cents.

But fuel duty is nowhere near engough to cover national healthcare, (many DUers have said "but it pays for healthcare!"):

National Health Service spending 2003-2004: £73 billion

[SoCalDem]

23. UK citizens still have medical benefits and a social service safety net

Next?

[BiggJawn]

26. You can have my $3 a gallon gas, Tommy Atkins...

But you have to take the $180 a month prescription COPAY at the Chemist's that goes along with it.

Oh, and didn't I hear something once about University being free if you pass the entrance exams? $8,000 a year PLUS room and board here, old chap.

I also understand you know what a commuter train and village bus looks like too, Tommy, and not just because you saw one in a MUSEUM, like me...

You think we have it so damn good over here, why not apply? Shit, just go to Mexico on vacation and swim over.

[muriel_volestrangler]

38. See post #25 for how much healthcare costs

Fuel duty doesn't begin to cover it. Free university tuition belongs to the past; it's now £3000 per year - about $5,500, plus room and board. And as post #25 points out, you could get the level of subsidy for public transport we have with a gas tax of 40 cents.

Comparing subway fares:

NY: $76 for 30 day pass, for the whole network (source)
London: £85.30 for a month, for the central zones 1 and 2 (source)

[BiggJawn]

48. So what's Tommy's out-of-pocket?

How much does he pay out of his own pocket for his medical care? I wasn't asking how many programs the UK's obscene fuel tax funded.


I could be willing to pay $500 a month for mass transit and I still wouldn't have any, because we don't HAVE any available here.

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. £6.50 per prescription, max £93.20 a year

I thought you were implying that the fuel tax wasn't 'obscene' because it was a trade off for healthcare.

If people were willing to pay for and use mass transit, it would become available for most of the USA (68% live in urbanized areas, as seen above).

[BiggJawn]

50. No, I was implying none of us have any money left at the end of the month

They pay through the nose for gas in the UK, and we pay through the nose for everything else.
Actually, I'd rather be taxed than see all the $$$ going into some fat-cat's pocket like it does.

I suspect the "without insurance" price for Insulin in London Is still a fraction of what it is here. More fat-cats.

Well, as we ease into the "Long Emergency", we'll see about mass transport appearing. Me, I doubt it. No tax revenue to finance it, a direct result of "Ah'm gwinna letcha keep more'n yer own MUNNY!"

93 Sterling a year, eh? I blow thru that in a MONYH...

[Ravenseye]

78. Snarf

My wife and I, along with our daughter, will be soon paying (rates going up again) over 700 dollars a month for our healthcare, and that's with a $2500 annual deducable each.

I'd like to trade please.

[brentspeak]

34. Don't you know there are people in Europe who pay $7/gallon for their gas?

Now eat your wallet and your weekly paycheck and be happy you're only being raped to the tune of $3/gallon! It's good for you.

[yy4me]

39. I am tired of hearing how expensive gas is in Europe,

citizens of England and the continent get a lot more for their gas dollar than we do. All get health care and most use great public transportation because it is available to them, they do not "have" to use their cars. The train and bus routes all over Europe are inexpensive and very comprehensive. It is far easier to get where you need to go "over there" than it is here. The comparisons should not be made between our prices and that of the rest of the world. If we feel it necessary to compare, lets do the whole picture. Its not just what you pay but what you get for your petro-dollar.

[corporate_mike]

51. Actually, public transportation in UK is expensive and unreliable

London is probably better than other cities but in gerenal, UK public transportation is mediocre.

[arwalden]

52. Hmmm....

I don't think many places in the US have better public transport. Where do you live?

[muriel_volestrangler]

53. I lived in Pittsburgh for a couple of years, and I think the buses

were a bit better, and cheaper, than those I now have in South Hampshire. That may be because it's a larger city than Southampton, though.

[jsamuel]

54. your comparing apples and apples and leaving out the oranges

area of US that is rural = HUGE!!!
are of Britain that is rural = tiny...

[muriel_volestrangler]

57. I'm not suggesting the whole of the US could have viable public transport

but 68% of the US population live in towns or cities of 50,000 or above - "urbanized areas" (see post #37), and those could have a decent system which would cover day-to-day use (not longer distances - I know city-to-city distances are further in the US). As I said, Pittsburgh had a reasonable one a few years ago, and most agree that New York's is OK. It can be done.

[Ravenseye]

79. I'm in Pittsburgh. The Buses Suck.

I've also lived in the U.K. in both London and in Leamington Spa (smaller town) so I can compare. London obviously was great. No need to have a car. In fact I actively DIDN'T want a car. Subway's. Buses. Cabs. Plenty.

Leamington Spa though was a joke. You had to have a car there. Well, I walked alot. I walked into 'town', etc. For the most part though people there are fairly car bound.

Pittsburgh's buses, while better than Leamington Spa, are still a nightmare. Sure they're all over the place, and don't cost an arm and a leg but it'll take you FOREVER to get across town. If I were to use a bus to get into downtown I'd have to take one bus, get a transfer for extra money, then wait for a second bus, and take that into town. Not so bad until you consider that it would take over an hour to get somewhere that I could probably walk faster if it weren't for all the hills. I'm in the city for christsake, i'm not out in the sticks. I should be able to hop on something and get to town in a half hour or less, instead it's double, or sometimes triple that.

So...Maybe more available, but not convienent. To work Public Transportation actually has to get you places in relatively decent time.

[IHTFP]

83. That is true

Unless you live in one of the major cities.

[moondust]

40. I want to see a graph.

With three lines on it: 1. Rise in crude oil price over last 5 years. 2. Rise in average UK pump price over last 5 years. 3. Rise in average US pump price over last 5 years.

Expand to include other countries at will.

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. No graph, but data back to 2002 available here

http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/eupetrolprices/default.asp

eg UK March 2002: €1.20 per litre; May 2006 €1.40
USA March 2002: €0.40; May 2006 €0.62

So the increase is about the same.

[moondust]

42. Same?

1.4/1.2 = 16% higher.
0.62/0.4 = 55% higher.

Now for percent rise of crude...

Good site with everything converted into same units! Thanks!

[muriel_volestrangler]

43. Same - 20 (euro) cents versus 22 cents

Or do you think that European taxes should be put up because oil producing nations and companies are making more profits?

[moondust]

44. No.

Just trying to get a comparative picture of who, if anybody, is being gouged and by how much, i.e. if US drivers are indeed being gouged, as many suspect, are UK and other drivers being gouged about the same, more, less?

[BooScout]

46. Yes........

As US prices have been going up so have UK prices. It's just not as noticable over here since the price of petrol is higher to begin with.

[superconnected]

55. Sickening.

I quit taking the commuter bus because my car was stolen at a park-n-ride 2 years ago.

So now are thieves going to stop stealing cars or are they more likely to steal cars.

ie - they won't want to pay for gas, but they can just steal a car with gas in it.

I remember in the late 80's and early 90's - gas thievery was a big deal in my city. Even our neigborhood - a really good one at the time, had ppl stealing gay by siphoning it out of the cars at night. I know cars mostly have locking gas flaps now - mine does, but still I bet people with older cars are going to get hit by gas theives.

[BrightKnight]

56. No SUVs in the UK

I spent 2 week driving through southern England a few years ago. I don't remember seeing any SUVs. I probably saw a few Landrovers. Vans were fairly popular for trades people. I saw a few mini pickup trucks. I got the impression that 95% of the fleet was economy cars.

I guess that most people really don't need to haul all of that sailboat fuel around.

[muriel_volestrangler]

59. 9% of sales last year

Last year, 187,000 SUVs were sold in Britain -- almost 9 percent of all new cars registered, up from 2.3 percent in 1990.

Londoners seem particularly enamored of the vehicles: A survey released last month by AA Personal Loans reported that 16 percent of Londoners planning on buying a car in the next year will buy a four-wheel-drive vehicle, whereas only 8 percent of people in more rugged Scotland aspired to do so.

Continental Europe has shared Britain's affinity for SUVs -- in 2005, more than 14 million new SUVS were registered. The cars make up 7 percent of all cars in the European Union, up from 2.7 percent just a decade ago. But some spectators think that the trend is a particularly British one.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/europe/articles/2006/04/02/animosity_climbs_as_suvs_make_inroads_in_london/

[BrightKnight]

60. $8 / day congestion fee & proof that UK drivers are insane

parts of London = $8 / day congestion fee + parking + $6 gas...

If you can afford that you probably don't need to worry about gas milage.

----------------------------



After negotiated a few of these it should be obviouis to anyone that all UK drivers are bat sh!t insane.

[superconnected]

62. See what happens when people won't vote yes on freeway spending for

overpasses. Look closley Idaho. Your roads suck. What are you going to do as population grows - THAT(see above). I'm sure it's very inexpensive...

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. Is that the Magic Roundabout, Hemel Hempsted?

I've never driven on it myself, but I've heard you get used to it. Seriously, roundabouts are good for traffic in a lot of situations (not all, I'll admit). I grew up in Stevenage, a town of 70,000, which then had about 20 roundabouts and not a single traffic light - and no traffic jams at any time of day, either. Now, 4 way stop signs really are a crazy idea ... :crazy:

[Xithras]

64. We have a bunch of roundabouts in Modesto.

They started installing them about five years ago as a decongestion measure. They work great, though they tend to give people fits if they've never seen one before. Once you get used to them though, you start to wonder why we bother with four way stops at all.

I talked to one of the city councilmen about it a couple of years ago, and he told me that the city would replace ALL of its four way stops with roundabouts if it weren't for the fact that the eminent domain costs to take the needed land were prohibitive. They worked out that it would cost hundreds of millions to clip the corners of the all the properties neighboring intersections in the city, and that's just land aquisition costs. Construction costs pushed the numbers even higher.

Of course, I live in the country. We get so little traffic on my street that we don't even have stop signs...just 4 way Yield signs :)

[Buck Turgidson]

71. Here in Fairfax, VA we've got the worst traffic circles.

The engineers have designed a roundabout with stop lights and straight through lanes for the major direction. In order to turn left, we have to wait for a light to enter the roundabout and then wait for a light to continue across the major lanes. Two lights in order to turn left. Arrgghhhh!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=22031&ll=38.864615,-77.275488&spn=0.001581,0.002696&t=k&om=1

[muriel_volestrangler]

72. That's crying out for a flyover or underpass for the through road (n/t)

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

86. God, what an abomination. n/t

[BrightKnight]

65. UK is actually a very rational place

I was a bit nervous about driving on the left side of the road in London rush hour traffic. There was nothing to it.

The first large roundabout I found was unexpected. I felt like I landed in a Monte Python sketch for a minute or two. I went around a couple of times before I got a feel for it.

I like the small roundabouts. I'm not sold on the large roundabouts with 18 wheeled trucks.

-------------

I hope that the gas prices don't get too high. I would really love to go back some day and explore the north.

[BooScout]

75. That's not a roundabout.....it's my worst nightmare!

Roundabouts should not be allowed to get that big and have two way traffic!:yoiks:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

81. That's the Swindon Magic Roundabout.

Though the one in Hemel is just as crazy. I've only been through it on the bus.

[BooScout]

74. Actually that's £8 not $8....n/t

[Odin2005]

90. That roundabout looks dangerous!

:yoiks:

[katty]

61. it's been high in UK for quite awhile-they are used to it,, it's

only Americans and the one person school buses/one cup o' coffee they drive around in that bitch so much. We're bitching at $3.-it will go higher, then the gas riots.

[BooScout]

76. No they bitch about it......

Just quietly.....and usually over pints.:toast:

[rfkrfk]

70. the British are enlightened --> use biodiesel, go to prison

what wonderful people

[muriel_volestrangler]

73. explain, please (n/t)

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

82. I believe he is referring to...

...people who make their own biodeisel and don't pay fuel tax on it (which is required by law.)

[rfkrfk]

84. sugar prices in the UK...scam

everything is connected

if the Brits could get sugar at world price,
they could easily make fuel alcohol for
half price of gasoline,
of course, they can't get world price...
farm subsidies ripoff the working class


carbon rationing...ripoff
natural gas...ripoff

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

85. What the hell are you talking about?

What does fuel alcohol have to do with biodiesel? And if you started using sugar as your primary source of fuel, what do you think would happen to the price of sugar?

Can you please try to make sense of all of this for me?

[rfkrfk]

87. everything is connected

when you raise the price of motor fuel,
by taxes,

it gets easier to raise the price of
substitutes,

sugar, gasoline-petrol,,, exchangeable
do you think it is an acccident that
EU sugar prices are 3x world average

natural gas,petrol,,,, are exchangeable,
do you think it is an accident that
the UK is being screwed on natural gas

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

88. I'm sorry, but you're just not making any sense. n/t

[BooScout]

77. Huh?

:shrug: