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Al-Zarqawi Lived for 52 Mins. After Strike

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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 08:38 AM
Original message
Al-Zarqawi Lived for 52 Mins. After Strike

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-iraq-al-zarqawi,1,7355461.story?coll=chi-news-hed

Al-Zarqawi Lived for 52 Mins. After Strike

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Abu Musab al-Zarqawi lived for 52 minutes after a U.S. warplane bombed his hideout northeast of Baghdad, and he died of extensive internal injuries consistent with those caused by a bomb blast, the U.S. military said Monday.

Col. Steve Jones, command surgeon for Multinational Forces, said an autopsy concluded that al-Zarqawi died from serious injuries to his lungs. An FBI test positively identified al-Zarqawi's remains.

Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, a spokesman for the U.S. military in Baghdad, said U.S. forces arrived about 28 minutes after a fighter jet bombed al-Zarqawi's hideout outside Baqouba on Wednesday. Medics secured al-Zarqawi's airway but his breathing was shallow and labored, and he expelled blood from his mouth.

"It was very evident he had extremely massive internal injuries," Caldwell said.

Al-Zarqawi died 24 minutes after coalition forces arrived, he said.

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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. Is there anything these military pricks won't lie about?
Edited on Mon Jun-12-06 08:46 AM by bowens43
First he was killed in the bombing , then he died right after being removed from the building, then he died as soon as Iraqi troops arrived , then he died after US troops arrived, now he lived for 52 minutes......

These assholes have zero credibility. NOTHING that comes form the US military or current administration can be believed.
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aquamarina Donating Member (772 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Don't Forget
He also died in 2003.
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Left Coast Lynn Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Link?
Thanks.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Here
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Left Coast Lynn Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Maybe I wasn't clear, sorry
Looking for a link to a story stating American military officials declared him dead.

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Tesla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. like I said I've heard that one before
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. See My Sig Line
Fucking Liars LIE!
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schmuls Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. How the hell do they happen to have a DNA sample on hand,
anmyway. I don't believe anything this regime says anymore.
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ConservativeDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. Do you have any evidence of them lying?
...or is this just a matter of faith for you?

Personally, I'm not so sure which is worse. The GOP has people who think the Earth is flat. We apparently have people who think that bombs don't kill.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. They were going to turn him into a "SOCK PUPPET"
But they ran out of time

</sarcasm>
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. "an FBI test" confirmed his identity?
as someone in another thread asked, where did they get the original DNA they'd need for comparison purposes? Of course, it doesn't specifically say DNA, so what is "an FBI test"?
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
6. I have two words that sum up my feelings on the matter.....
NO BOUNCE!!

:bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce:
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murray hill farm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
7. I believe that he did die this time, but....
He died from a us bomb that works by air pressure waves that destroys the blood vessels in the lungs of anyone exposed to it...then the lungs until the person dies of suffication..which may and probably does take an hour or so....but....WHAT?????? How is this bomb, that kills without specific target anyone who is in its range by destroying internal organs ..most specifically the lungs, any different than chemical or biological warfare?
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. But it's not necessarily because of a novel bomb.
Edited on Mon Jun-12-06 10:08 AM by igil
(University database access can be fun. For the Zhang, Wang, Leng and Yang article, keep in mind that a concussion wave (or any pressure wave, such as sound) is composed of two alternating parts, underpressure and overpressure. I'm assuming that the underpressure is what ruptures the alveoli.

Blast lung injury. Sasser SM ; Sattin RW ; Hunt RC ; Krohmer J. Prehospital emergency care : official journal of the National Association of EMS Physicians and the National Association of State EMS Directors. (Prehosp Emerg Care) 2006 Apr-Jun; 10(2): 165-72
... "Blast lung" is a clinical diagnosis and is characterized as respiratory difficulty and hypoxia without obvious external injury to the chest. It may be complicated by pneumothoraces and air emboli and may be associated with multiple other injuries. Patients may present with a variety of symptoms, including dyspnea, chest pain, cough, and hemoptysis. Physical examination may reveal tachypnea, hypoxia, cyanosis, and decreased breath sounds. Chest radiography, computerized tomography, and arterial blood gases may assist with diagnosis and management; however, they should not delay diagnosis and emergency interventions in the patient exposed to a blast. ...

Primary blast injury after a bomb explosion in a civilian bus. Katz E ; Ofek B ; Adler J ; Abramowitz HB ; Krausz MM Annals of surgery. (Ann Surg) 1989 Apr; 209(4): 484-8
6-kg explosive charge detonated under a seat in the center of a crowded city bus in Jerusalem, killing three passengers immediately. Of the 55 survivors, all of whom were transferred to two major medical centers, 29 were hospitalized. Among those admitted, a high rate of primary blast injuries was found, including perforated ear drums (76%), blast lung (38%), and abdominal blast injuries (14%). Two of the latter patients suffered bowel perforations, which were diagnosed with considerable delay. Eight patients (31%) had sustained life-threatening trauma, consisting of a combination of primary, secondary, and tertiary blast injuries. The overall mortality rate was 10.3%. The large number of primary blast injuries, including the unexpected finding of bowel perforations, is explained by the high amplitude of the air pressure wave (3.8-5.2 atm) and its relatively long duration (2-3 msec) resulting from the detonation of the high-energy explosive charge in the small, enclosed space of the bus. Besides the usual wounds sustained by victims of an explosion that occurs in a confined space, the possibility of primary blast injury to the abdomen and to the lungs should be taken into account by the treating surgeon.

Zhang J ; Wang Z ; Leng H ; Yang Z Studies on lung injuries caused by blast underpressure. The Journal of trauma. (J Trauma) 1996 Mar; 40(3) Suppl: S77-80This study was designed to determine the effects of underpressure on the lungs of rats and rabbits. An underpressure generator was made to simulate reliably the underpressure parameters at various levels. The peak level and duration ranged from -45.5 kPa to -86.5 kPa and from 21.3 milliseconds to 1,900 milliseconds, respectively. The time to peak negative pressure ranged from 3.5 milliseconds to 7.4 milliseconds. The results showed that underpressure at a certain level could inflict injuries on rats and rabbits. The severity of injury ranged from mild to extremely severe, even to death. These injury patterns were similar to those induced by blast overpressure. The lungs were the organs most vulnerable to underpressure. The pulmonary pathological changes included hemorrhage and edema. The typical hemorrhagic stripes on the lung surfaces resulted from the interfacial impacts of the lungs on the chest wall. The severity of lung injury increased with increased peak pressure and duration levels. This relationship can be expressed with linear regressive equations and the physical parameters of the underpressure can be used to indicate the severity of injury to lungs.

Yang Z ; Wang Z ; Tang C ; Ying Y Biological effects of weak blast waves and safety limits for internal organ injury in the human body. The Journal of trauma. (J Trauma) 1996 Mar; 40(3) Suppl: S81-4
One hundred and seventeen adult sheep of both sexes, each weighing 15.2-42.4 kg, were used for this study. The purpose of this study was to investigate the relationship of the physical parameters of the waves to internal organ injury by exposing sheep to weak blast waves in TNT (trinitrotoluene) explosions, biological shock tube, and gun muzzle blasts. The results showed that the organ most sensitive to the TNT explosion was the lungs, whereas the upper respiratory tract was most sensitive to muzzle blast waves. The injury thresholds of overpressure were 29.0, 29.5, and 41.2 kPa for upper respiratory tract, lungs, and gastrointestinal tract respectively at a single exposure. Repeated exposure to 60 blasts reduced the injury threshold of the internal organs. The injury thresholds for upper respiratory tract, lungs, and gastrointestinal tract were 21.0, 18.0, and 40.4 kPa, respectively. The duration of overpressure of weak blast waves was 2.4-4.2 milliseconds, which did not significantly affect the severity of injury. The safety limits of weak blast waves to internal organ injury of human body were as follows: Ps = 37-3Ln.Tc.N/4(Tc.N < or = 1000) and Ps = 20.4(Tc.N > 1000). The results suggest that repeated exposures decrease the injury threshold of the internal organs. The safety limits proposed could protect 90% of the exposed population against internal organ injury caused by weak blast waves.

Argyros GJ Management of primary blast injury. Toxicology. (Toxicology) 1997 Jul 25; 121(1): 105-15
Blast waves are produced following the detonation of munitions, the firing of large caliber guns, or from any type of explosion. These blast waves can be powerful enough to injure the individuals exposed to them. This type of injury is called primary blast injury (PBI) and the organs most vulnerable to PBI are the gas-filled organs, namely the ear, the lungs and the gastrointestinal tract. The approach to the casualty with PBI is the same as it would be for any trauma victim, i.e. the initiation of life support measures. Attention should be directed to the common life-threatening manifestation of thoracic and abdominal PBI. Pulmonary manifestations would include hemorrhage, barotrauma and arterial air embolism, while abdominal manifestations would include hemorrhage and hollow organ rupture. Therapy is directed at the specific manifestations as well as avoiding additional iatrogenic injury.


There are more ... I heard that a large blast or concussion could create serious internal injuries; now I know a bit more than I wanted. (And what's up with the rabbit and sheep studies? Seriously, they blew up sheep.)


On edit: The point is that any old bomb that's big enough, or where the energy is properly contained/channeled, can cause these injuries. Note that the bus-bombing some Palestinian produced just had a powerful bomb.
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letsgonova19087 Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. This isn't any kind of "special" bomb
the air pressure is just the way explosives work. That same case could be made with any type of weapon whatsoever. A bullet can destroy internal organs, too.
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Tanam Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
29. Wow
All explosives create air pressure, thats what they do. Its not chemical or biological warfare.Unless you consider HE to be chemical warfare :eyes:
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Bombs kill people much more efficiently than chemical and biological
warfare. Chemical and biological weapons are very hard to use. Bombs are very easy.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. Are they sure it wasn't 51 minutes or maybe 53 minutes 2 seconds...
:eyes:
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boise1 Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. This simply won't do. I need all the details
Doesn't the American public deserve a full autopsy report complete with photos, blood sample results, cranial dimensions? That's enter-TAAIINN-ment!
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
13. and just who was it that stood by with a watch and timed his dying


bunch of crap
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. I wonder if he involuntarily relieved his bladder in his pants too?
That's some to talk about over cocktails tonight

</sarcasm>
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
15. I heard it was 49 1/2 minutes ...................... SOMEBODY'S LYING.
:eyes:
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
17. So, they had a stopwatch on him???? Not 51 minutes, not 53 minutes....
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. .....and we wonder why the world hates America.
Tomorrow they'll have it down to the second. Fifty two minutes and twenty seven seconds.

What a crock of shit!!
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Briar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
19. And how did the women
and the child also killed by those bombs die?

Doesn't anyone care about them?
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. They are R*****d Islamics
No one cares least of all the War criminals
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. They may have been his wives and some of his children
(who appear to be on record as having recently been requested (instructed?) to go to be with him).
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Did the Air Force know (or have reason to suspect) there was a 6 year old
Edited on Mon Jun-12-06 01:55 PM by daleo
in the house? That's what I would like to know. I wish journalists would ask the full range of questions, even the uncomfortable ones.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
23. Could this (autopsy, right?) be consistent with this version of events?:
(apparent eyewitness): http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2220222,00.html


“They were shouting and screaming and in a very tense and agitated mood,” said Abbas. “They lined us up in a ditch and told us to turn our faces. We thought they were going to execute us. I started reciting koranic verses to myself.” The soldiers then took the wounded man from the back of the ambulance, placing his stretcher on the ground.

“The Americans tore his dishdasha and they kept on asking him through an interpreter, ‘What is your name, what is your name?’,” said Abbas. “They were tearing his dishdasha, not to wrap his head with it as they did later but because they were afraid he might be wearing a suicide belt. They kept shouting, ‘Keep your distance, he may be wearing a suicide belt’.”

He was not. “Under the dishdasha he was wearing only knee-length white undershorts,” said Abbas.

Once the soldiers had established the man was not a threat, they started to kick him in the chest, said Abbas and an Iraqi policeman also there. “They kept kicking him, shouting, ‘What’s your name?’, but the man only moaned and said nothing,” said Abbas.

As the small crowd of Iraqis looked on, the wounded man grew paler and blood oozed from his mouth and nose. It took about a quarter of an hour for him to die from the time when he was removed from the ambulance, Abbas estimated.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
24. This story has changed almost as many times as
the reason why we invaded Iraq . . .
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. The incredible moving story
As usual. Could anyone really survive two 500 lb bomb strikes for nearly an hour? Maybe those who said this whole operation was some kind of elaborate coverup for his death have a point.

Did any of the other people killed in the bombing survive the initial blast? What about the six year old girl? How long did she survive? Sometimes infants survive in earthquake rubble for days.
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msatty99 Donating Member (465 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-12-06 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
31. All Bull Shit All the Time: Zarqawi is DEAD ....BUT
he was killed somewhere else under some other conditions.

US gov't lied about Pat Tillman, Jessica Lynch and they are lying
now. WHY? I haven't got the foggiest idea. But you can bet
its some nasty reason.

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