Union blocks U.S.-India healthcare plan

[OhioChick]

CANTON, N.C., Oct. 11 (UPI) -- The United Steelworkers labor union has blocked a Canton, N.C., employer's plan to send employees to India for lower-cost healthcare.

The union stepped in when Blue Ridge Paper Products announced plans to send an employee, Carl Garrett, to India for treatment, The New York Times reported Wednesday.

The union said it did not approve of the "shocking new approach" to saving healthcare costs and insisted Garrett be treated in the United States.

"No U.S. citizen should be exposed to the risks involved in traveling internationally for healthcare services," union President Leo Gerard wrote in a letter to the U.S. Senate and U.S. House of Representatives healthcare committees. He said he was concerned about the willingness of companies to offer incentives for employees willing to seek treatment overseas.
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20061011-112347-5282r

[Faux pas]

1. Wow, who thought this could be true? This subject was a subplot

on Boston Legal for the last two weeks, hmmm.

[bronxiteforever]

2. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its official-I have now seen/heard everything-I don't recognize my country anymore. I am speechless

[CatholicEdHead]

3. Wouldn't the international airfare negate any savings?

Air travel for checkups, surguries, etc... regardless of quality. Is this a plan to save the airline industry?

[Nevernose]

5. Makes you wonder about the US mark-up on health care, huh?

Sure, check-ups could be done here, and a lot of things wouldn't need second surgeries (or they could just leave them in India until the series of surgeries is over). The cost of an airline ticket (a couple grand, even in the peak travel time) would be little compared to a 250k dollar medical bill here in the states, but the company is probably buying the tickets wholesale, or at lezast getting a frequent flier discount.

[mcscajun]

10. Here's why the costs in India are so low...

...cross-border medical liability in countries like India could prove to be a major hurdle, the experts say. In the case of Mr. Garrett, Blue Ridge Paper asked him to sign a release saying that he was “on his own as far as medical liability,” said Bonnie Blackley, the benefits director at Blue Ridge.

Tom Keesling, president of IndUShealth, said “the Indian physician and hospital would be directly responsible for any malpractice.”

Zubin Daruwalla, health care analyst at the consulting firm Frost & Sullivan, said there was no uniform code in India on what could be considered medical negligence and what compensation ought to be paid. “Compared with the huge payouts in the United States, Indian courts award small amounts,” Mr. Daruwalla said.

As the Rev. Johnson said to Bart in Blazing Saddles: "Son, you're on your own."

[Nevernose]

11. Malpractice is part of it, but not all

Most of it, to be fair, is probably due to the low cost of living in India. Everything's cheaper there. On my small salary, I could live like a rajah in India, for instance.

Malporactice isn't ultimate reason that American healthcare is more expensive -- and neither is our research costs cost nor our relative quality -- it's the profit margins of hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, and health care corporations.

For the record, there's no "uniform code" in America, either, or consensus on what can "be considered medical negligence and what compensation ought to be paid." We've got national, regional, and state guidelines, all different.

[mcscajun]

12. Oh, certainly there are other factors.

I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

And aside from the profit margins of hospitals, etc., there is also the skim off the top from Healthcare brokers, clearing houses (*the places that do wholesale processing of claims from multiple insurance companies*), and others.

The waste I see generated by "gifts" from pharmaceutical houses passing through the office in which I work is appalling, as is the environmental impact of so much over-packaging. Waste, waste, waste. :grr:

[physioex]

8. Not really.....

Flights are pretty cheap, and I am sure they could get some type of bulk discount....

[IronLionZion]

26. You can fly Air India round trip for about $1000

Do you know how much an operation in the US costs? The cost of one operation can ruin an entire family's economic standing.

[physioex]

40. Very true.....

Operations in the USA are waay ridiculosly overpriced. I was at a simple outpatient surgery that cost nearly $4K. Luckily I had insurance to cover most the cost. I can only imagine how much a complicated surgery such as a bypass might cost here in the US.

[ChromeFoundry]

4. How are the freepers going to spin this one

as good for this economy? Pretty soon they will force our elderly to live in rest homes south of the border... gawd, I hope I didn't just give them another pathetic idea.

[nine30]

20. How can this be NOT good for the economy ?

You complain of high healthcare costs and high profit margins. I don't see what harm a little competition could do in the free market. You think big pharma and big healthcare providers would take note and be forced to lower their prices perhaps ?

[Phx_Dem]

30. nothing wrong with competition

as long as an even playing field exists, which in this case doesn't.

[AnneD]

39. You will be cutting the legs

out from under the health care industry in this country. The biggest waste of health care dollars in this country are the insurance company middle man, excess profits from drug companies, health care CEO's excessive salaries.

Hospitals have always averaged out costs. A cardiac surgery has a high reimbursement rate but a vaginal birth doesn't. The extra money from the cardiac surgery will off set the low/no payment from charity delivery. Thus the hospitals can absorb the hit for non paying folks. Now, enter the specialized hospitals that only do cardiac. Their profits are huge because they don't give a shit about the poor pregnant mom. And the other hospital that used the cardiac reimbursement to offset their charity cases have less margins and run in the red and go under. You see this going on all across America every day. We are closing down more and more hospitals. We have proportionately less available beds than we did years ago.

Now, take that one step further and cherry pick cases and send those health care dollars overseas. They are not recirculated in this country-they stay overseas. More hospitals go under. Wages are suppressed and we lose Nurses and Docs. Health education starts closing (it already is in Nursing-educating someone for a health career is labor and cost intensive). Pretty soon, you have inadequate ability to care for the population, medical crisis or not. The end result is you will not be able to get decent care in this country for the day to day and emergencies.

And what about malpractice. We have high standards in this country and they may not always the same in other countries. And if something goes wrong, what recourse do you and your family have. Squat.

I have strong feelings about this not only because I am a Nurse, but because I had a friend that had surgery in Europe. She developed complications in this country and had no other recourse. She finally died of complication 2 years post surgery. She steadily decline and ended up in indigent care in an ICU unit. We were with her every step of the way and were grateful that she had some care. I had warned her about going but she insisted. I can't even tell you the tab that her extended ICU stays cost. Her family paid as much as they could-but what about the Docs in Spain. Forget that. Her family is SOL.

I would prefer to see universal coverage before I see it outsourced. Outsourcing will put more profit in an international companies pocket while stripping it from the American Health care system.

[area51]

49. Great post.

I wish I could nominate it for the front page. :thumbsup:

[Nevernose]

6. Why the Big 3 (2?) support UHC

And many other companies as well. When will the wingnuts get it through their thick skulls that the moral, CHRISTIAN thing for the richest nation in the history of the world to do is to make sure that everybody gets adequate health care?

Not to mention that it would be GOOD FOR BUSINESS! :argh: Since I finally have health insurance, I'm going to go take a pill for my blood pressure.

[raccoon]

22. To answer your question,

"When will the wingnuts get it through their thick skulls that the moral, CHRISTIAN thing for the richest nation in the history of the world to do is to make sure that everybody gets adequate health care? "

Maybe when THEY don't have health insurance.

[antigop]

24. well, you know the saying...

everyone is just one catastrophe away from being a Democrat
(if you are not one already)

[varun]

7. Medical "Tourism" is a growth industry in India

Thousands of Europeans (mostly from UK) already go to India for heart surgery and other procedures that would cost a fraction in India compared to Western countries. It is feasible because Europe is about a 7 hour flight from India, while a flight from US can take 14 hours (non stop).

[Liberal Veteran]

9. I'm VERY proud of my union for this.

Not to put too fine a point on this, but outsourcing our healthcare is fucking bullshit. It's treating the symptom, not the problem.

[filer]

13. Thank God for your union!

When the last union is broken, who will be left to protect American workers? This is, of course, a rhetorical question.

[earth mom]

44. Good for your Union!

:applause:

I can't believe anyone in this country would defend this outrageous practice! Are we human beings or pieces of meat-that's the question! :puke:

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. About a month ago, at 5:00 my wife called 911 on my behalf.

by 8:30 when they sent me home, I had run up approximately $3000 in charges.

That's a little less than $1000 per hour. Moral considerations aside, it's worth buying a plane ticket.

No surgery, no anesthesia, nothing fancy. No diagnosis either. Kind of an expensive take-two-aspirin-and-call-me-in-the-morning visit, frankly.

[Auntie Bush]

15. I hope you have insurance and you're OK now. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

17. My insurance has a $1500 deductible

The good thing about it is that the prices negotiated with the insurance company are about half of the "regular" prices. At $6000, I would not have gone to the hospital.

Thanks, I'm fine, they suspect it was just dehydration. I guess coffee and diet coke don't cut it when you're working in warm weather. :shrug:

[IronLionZion]

27. both coffee and diet coke are diuretics

and you are guaranteed to pee out more than you drink. Try water with salt and potassium - small amounts frequently throughout the day not all at once. :hi:

[cap]

16. westerners often get sick with digestive problems in India

our stomach flora arent used to the bugs over their. I was in India and Nepal for three months. Didn't eat raw fruits and vegetables and was regularly as sick as a dog. Constant "Delhi belly". Went from 125 to 105. Got some weird flu as well. When I got to Britian I was so weak I could bearly haul my own luggage and almost fainted. Went to National Health Service in Britain nd got a honking large injection of antibiotics and rested. I was in my 20's and was fit as a fiddle.

When India gets too expensive, companies can try Nepal. Everything is even cheaper there. My sister's best friend was in the Peace Corps and almost died. They air lifted her home to the USA and put her in Walter Reed where she was in the hospital for 3-6 months.

[elehhhhna]

41. Yep. Had a pal who came back w/ a very nasty aemobic thingy

ugly and extremely difficult to diagnose and treat. Took months.

[w4rma]

18. Good for the union. (nt)

[lovuian]

19. America's Healthcare is out of control

and this is their answer...Outsource healthcare

Baaawaaahaaa

[elehhhhna]

42. Outsource PATIENTS. Ridiculous. But get your passports,

just in case, huh?

[blockhead]

21. but,but, but......

Bush says we can't trust drugs from outside the USA.

[drm604]

23. This story needs prominent exposure.

People need to understand, before the election, what companies are trying to do and what unions can do to stop them.

"Vote Republican and they'll fly your mother to India for her heart surgery!"

That would be a great slogan.

[IronLionZion]

25. Going to India or Cuba for surgery is a viable and affordable option

I know several uninsured people who did. The cost of the airfare, surgery, hospital stay, meds, and everything is dramatically cheaper than getting it here when your insurance won't cover it. The only advantage to getting it done here in the US is convenience.

But I'm clearly biased as my family is Indian-American and I've seen first hand the excellent quality and service offered by private Indian hospitals.

It's not surprising that there is subconscious bias running through everyone's head that somehow healthcare in some other country far away must be of lesser quality. Ever notice that hospitals in the US and UK are well-stocked with many Indian physicians? Or that Cuba of all places offered medical assistance to NOLA after Hurricane Katrina?

[LaurenG]

28. My problem wouldn't necessarily be the level of care

it would be the amount of time I'd have to take to go for a procedure. I'll be back in 4 days honey. I have to get my tonsils out...in India.

[IronLionZion]

31. not tonsils

I'm thinking it is for much more expensive surgery that can really destroy a household's financial standing. When you are about to die, you don't mind taking some time to go get surgery and then stay for a bit until you are recovered. Don't take my word for it. Do some googling. This is becoming more common for Americans because our system for paying for health care totally blows.

[OhioChick]

32. I have a chronically ill child

and I surely would not want to be flying over to India all of the time. Can you fathom what it would cost for an entire family going there? (airfare, hotel, etc.) I also have serious questions about what poster #5 had written about.

Healthcare in another country should be a choice, not an ultimatum.

[IronLionZion]

33. agreed

It should certainly be a choice and we shouldn't have to leave our own country to get affordable quality care. That's a problem that will require our politicians to ignore the contributions they get from the insurance and drug industries as well as physicians and even from trial lawyers. Hopefully things will get better when more grass-roots Dems take control this year.

Yes, I can fathom how much it costs for a family of 5 (like mine because we go every 2 years or so) it's about $5000-$7500 for airfare during peak (summer and Christmas time) and maybe $4000 or less during off peak times. That and the surgery are the biggest expenses. The hotel, food, local transport, etc. will be negligible thanks to that amazing exchange rate. Your kid would get round the clock nursing and would be welcome to stay in the hospital as long as it takes to recover from the surgery rather than the HMO kicking him out like they do here.

That sounds like a lot just to get an operation....because it is. You'd be surprised what you'll do when your kid's life is on the line. The ones I know who went to India (Americans not Indian-Americans) were senior citizens whose insurance didn't cover the operation and they couldn't afford the $200K it would cost here but they had the $10K total cost including airfare for having it done in India. And it worked out for them. The docs in India communicate with the docs at home. And there are reputable organizations that specialize in arranging everything for them. The ambulance will pick them up from the airport. If you fly Air India you don't even have to switch planes in Frankfurt.

[Ohio Joe]

36. What your saying is true

I work and have worked with many many people from India and have heard exactly what you are saying for many years.

[cap]

47. so... who do you sue for malpractice

and how do you collect on that settlement?

Let's see... an Indian doctor with a good practice might have 10-20K USD in assets... That aint gonna cover you for years of lost earnings in this country.

The Indian legal system is weak compared to ours in terms of enforcement... There's a whole lot of who you know...

So.... now we have come full circle...

I am the granddaughter of a man who had solder fly into his eye as a result of an industrial accident. He went to Boston for the operation and they operated on the wrong eye. There was no OSHA, no malpractice, no workmen's comp, no ADA. His wife couldnt support the family and collapsed on the job due to starvation. The kids ended up in foster care where they worked as slaves until they were old enough....

Just wonderful...

[OhioChick]

48. You raise some legitimate questions. n/t

[cap]

50. the whole thing is to avoid paying for malpractice

so everyone takes their chances ... just like in the bad old days.

Not that the US has gotten any better.

He just worked for a company that used the medical sanction data collected by Medicare. Medicare shows that the physicians have only sanctioned other physicians if they had been convicted in court.

[katinmn]

34. The concern should be that Americans deserve to have affordable

health care in their own country!

[IronLionZion]

35. Damn Straight!

100% agreement here!

[katinmn]

37. Thanks! I'm glad the union is calling foul on this.

[earth mom]

45. You have TOTALLY missed the point!

We live in THIS country and have insurance for medical care in THIS country! We are not some piece of meat to be thrown here or there to SAVE SOMEONE ELSE MONEY! This is an outrageous disgusting development that has nothing to do with what country has better care. It has to do with dignity and respect! And not only that, it has to do with malpractice insurance which people do NOT get if they go to another country.

Sorry, but it's MY life and I'm not about to let someone else fuck around with it for the sake of the almighty dollar! :grr:

[Megahurtz]

29. The Outsourcing of Healthcare.

Now I've heard it all.:eyes: Stooping to the lowest of the low.

It almost sounds like a joke!

[earth mom]

46. How much lower can humanity go?

:puke:

[Giant Robot]

38. Is so confused

I keep getting told that the US has the best healthcare available. Why oh why would any citizen have to be shipped overseas to get good healthcare.

Sarcasm aside, what does it say about our healthcare system when we can't afford it anymore?

[newportdadde]

43. If they operate like they code...

[cap]

51. somehow I dont think that the CEO's are shipping themselves

off to India.

They have "executive health plans" that cover everything.