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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 11:24 AM
Original message
U.S. Should Stop Sanctioning Allies Over ICC
<clips>

(New York, December 10, 2003) - The administration of U.S. President George W. Bush is penalizing more than 20 friendly nations for supporting the International Criminal Court (ICC), Human Rights Watch said today.

In a letter to U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, Human Rights Watch urged the Bush administration to grant broad waivers for all states that are currently being penalized. The United States has been pressuring governments that have ratified the ICC treaty to sign bilateral agreements exempting U.S. citizens from the court's authority. Many governments have resisted signing because it would violate obligations under the ICC treaty.

The American Servicemembers Protection Act prohibits military assistance for ICC states that do not sign these agreements, but President Bush can waive the prohibition on national interest grounds. President Bush recently waived some sanctions against six prospective NATO members. More than 20 ICC states still have military assistance being withheld, totaling more than 20 million dollars. Those states include, among others, Benin, Croatia, Ecuador and Mali.

"It makes no sense for the United States to continue penalizing emerging democracies trying hard to support the rule of law," said Richard Dicker, director of the International Justice Program. "Why waive sanctions for NATO members but punish states like Mali, Benin, and Ecuador that urgently need support?"

http://www.hrw.org/press/2003/12/us-icc121003.htm




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nn2004 Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. I respect HRW - here's another good call by HRW
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/04/cuba0425-ltr.htm

Dear President Castro:

Human Rights Watch is deeply concerned that González is not receiving appropriate treatment in prison. The authorities have taken away his glasses and the cane he uses to determine where he is walking, and no special accommodations have been made for his blindness. Moreover, the authorities have reportedly refused to allow him to keep a Braille Bible that his wife brought to him.

We urge you to order the release of Juan Carlos González Leiva, the two independent journalists and five activists arrested with him, and the many others who are incarcerated in Cuba for exercising their internationally-recognized human rights.

Sincerely, José Miguel Vivanco - Executive Director

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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Here's another: USA: More state killing on Human Rights Day
<clips>

On 10 December 1948, the international community adopted a vision of a world free from state killing and cruelty. What does it say about the USA's present-day attitude to such aspirations that it is set to mark the 55th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by killing two more people in its death chambers?

Sadly, it is business as usual for US executioners. Last year, President George W. Bush proclaimed 10 December as Human Rights Day in the USA. Seven people were put to death there that week, designated by President Bush as Human Rights Week. This year, four people are scheduled for execution between 9 and 11 December.

These calculated killings are casting a growing shadow on the United States in an increasingly abolitionist world. Today 112 countries have abolished the death penalty in law or practice. The USA's political leaders should be promoting abolition in their country, too. Their failure turns to hypocrisy when they trumpet the United States as global human rights champion.

On 14 January this year, President Bush, whose five-year governorship of Texas saw 152 executions there and whose presidency has seen the first federal executions since 1963, issued a proclamation promising that the United States will "continue to build a culture that respects life". On the same day, the USA carried out its first execution of the year, and has conducted 64 more since then.

<http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/usa/document.do?id=80256DD400782B8480256DF7005D7D30>



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nn2004 Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Cuba Silences Dissent with Abuses, Oppressive Laws
http://www.hrw.org/press/1999/jul/cuba0722.htm

Forty years after the revolution, Cuba's Fidel Castro maintains control through intimidation, repressive laws, and by imprisoning dissidents, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today.

Cuba's Repressive Machinery details how Cuba's laws deny basic rights such as freedom of expression, association, and movement, and describes the plight of dozens of individuals prosecuted under those laws. The 263-page report also details ill-treatment rising to the level of torture in Cuban prisons. Labor rights are routinely violated in Cuba's expanding foreign investment sector, the report shows, by laws obstructing union formation and requiring state control of hiring.

"Forty years after assuming power, the Castro government still prosecutes dissidents for peacefully expressing their views," said José Miguel Vivanco, executive director of Human Rights Watch's Americas division. "Cuba stands alone in the hemisphere for this kind of human rights abuse: criminalizing free speech and association, imprisoning dissidents, and denying access to international human rights monitors."
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Human Rights: Cuba vs US
It's always interesting to look at the US and Cuba and compare human rights. The US is always far and away more of an abuser of human rights than Cuba. What's more, the US's largest recipients of military aid, Egypt, Israel, and Colombia, are among the worst abusers of human rights on the planet and could easliy be referred to as "Atrocities R Us".

<clips>

REPUBLIC OF CUBA
Head of state and government: Fidel Castro Ruz
Death penalty: retentionist
International Criminal Court: not signed

A number of initiatives by unofficial organizations in Cuba called for greater openness and respect for human rights in the country. The authorities largely ignored these efforts, although there were some incidents of harassment of those involved. In February a busload of youths crashed a bus into the Mexican embassy, apparently in search of asylum. The incident sparked a number of apparently pre-emptive arrests of dissidents, with the result that at the end of 2002 there were more prisoners of conscience than at any point during the previous year. New death sentences were handed down although the unofficial moratorium on executions appeared to remain in place. The embargo by the USA against Cuba continued to contribute to a climate in which fundamental rights were denied.

Background

Cuba's relations with some sectors of the international community improved over 2002. A November meeting with representatives of the European Union indicated a positive shift in relations with Cuba. Political dialogue between the two, blocked for five years over a number of issues including human rights concerns, had reopened with an initial meeting in December 2001. Similarly, Cuba's relations with Canada, which had deteriorated over the three previous years, improved with the visit of a senior Canadian official in November.

In April the UN Commission on Human Rights passed a relatively mild resolution on human rights in Cuba. However, the resolution was supported by many Latin American countries and for the first time Mexico voted in favour, prompting a diplomatic row with Cuba. In November, for the 11th consecutive year, the UN General Assembly passed a resolution calling on the USA to end its embargo.

..Death penalty

Although the unofficial moratorium on executions declared in 2001 apparently remained in place, at least three prisoners were sentenced to death in 2002: Ramón González, Iván Rodríguez and Gabriel Lindón. Prosecutors argued for the death penalty to be imposed on at least three other individuals. At the end of 2002, more than 50 people remained on death row.

http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/Cub-summary-eng




<clips>

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Head of state and government: George W. Bush
Death penalty: retentionist
International Criminal Court: signed

More than 600 foreign nationals – most arrested during the military conflict in Afghanistan – were detained without charge or trial or access to counsel or family members in the US naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. The USA refused to recognize them as prisoners of war or allow their status to be determined by a "competent tribunal" as required under the Geneva Conventions. There were concerns about the situation of others taken into US custody outside the USA, some of whom were held in undisclosed locations. Many of the 1,200 foreign nationals detained in the USA during investigations into the 11 September 2001 attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Center were also deprived of safeguards under international law, as were two US nationals held incommunicado in military custody in the USA as "enemy combatants". Death sentences continued to be imposed and carried out under state and federal law. There were reports of police brutality, deaths in custody and ill-treatment in prisons and jails.

Background

The US-led international military action in Afghanistan, launched following the 11 September 2001 attacks, continued into 2002. Thousands were detained in the context of the conflict, with frequent transfers of prisoners between the US, Afghan and Pakistan authorities. While calling for those responsible for the 11 September attacks and other crimes to be brought to justice, AI and others criticized the US government for denying internationally recognized rights to people taken into custody in the context of its declared "war against terrorism" (see below).

...Death Penalty

In 2002, 69 men and two women were executed, bringing to 820 the total number of prisoners put to death since the US Supreme Court lifted a moratorium on executions in 1976. The USA continued to violate international standards in its use of the death penalty, including by executing people who were under 18 at the time of the crime and people who had received inadequate legal representation. On 20 June 2002, the US Supreme Court ruled that the execution of people with mental retardation violates the constitutional ban on "cruel and unusual punishments". The Court acknowledged that "within the world community" such executions were "overwhelmingly disapproved".

http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/usa-summary-eng




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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. US Exports $20 million of Shackles, Electro-Shock Technology
<clips>

(Washington, DC) – A new Amnesty International report charges that in 2002, the Bush Administration violated the spirit of its own export policy and approved the sale of equipment implicated in torture to Yemen, Jordan, Morocco and Thailand, despite the countries' documented use of such weapons to punish, mistreat and inflict torture on prisoners. The US is also alleged to have handed suspects in the 'war on terror' to the same countries.

The total value of US exports of electro-shock weapons was $14.7 million in 2002 and exports of restraints totaled $4.4 million in the same period. The Commerce and State Departments approved these sales, permitting 45 countries to purchase electro-shock technology, including 19 that had been cited for the use of such weapons to inflict torture since 1990.

The report – The Pain Merchants – also reveals that the US approved the 2002 export to Saudi Arabia of nine tons of Smith & Wesson leg-irons. Former prisoners in Saudi Arabia have stated that their restraints were stamped with the name of Smith & Wesson. In a 2000 Amnesty International report, Phil Lomax, a UK national who was held for 17 days in 1999, recounted how shackles used in Malaz prison in Riyadh, were made in the US: "When we were taken out of the cell we were shackled and handcuffed. The shackles were very painful. They were made of steel... like a handcuff ring. The handcuffs were made in the USA."

"Although torture is endemic in Saudi Arabia, Smith and Wesson had no qualms about exporting approximately 10,000 leg-irons to Riyadh, and apparently sharing this lack of concern, the Bush Administration approved the sale," said Dr. William F. Schulz, Executive Director of Amnesty International USA (AIUSA). "For decades, human rights groups and the US State Department have documented Saudi Arabia's cruel use of leg-irons and shackles to inflict torture and force confessions. With this shameful shipment, we can expect the torture of religious minorities and peaceful protestors to continue for years to come."

<http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/usa/document.do?id=F7CE0B13E65E100085256DF00050B882>




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nn2004 Donating Member (172 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. CUBA'S REPRESSIVE MACHINERY
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/Cuba996-11.htm

The Cuban government has committed egregious, systematic human rights violations since the 1959 revolution. But the exact numbers of victims wrongfully killed, imprisoned, tortured, exiled, arrested, or suffering other human rights abuses by the Cuban government is impossible to know, in part due to the government's secrecy about its human rights practices. Human Rights Watch has monitored human rights practices in Cuba for over ten years. During that time, we have documented scores of cases of wrongful arrests, detentions, prosecutions, exile, and other abuses. Moreover, the human rights violations committed in the early years of the Castro government stand out as particularly severe. Historian Hugh Thomas, who acknowledged the impossibility of knowing precisely how many executions and other human rights violations had occurred, estimated that by early 1961, the Cuban government had "probably" executed some 2,000 Cubans, while by 1970, the government had, "perhaps," executed 5,000. Thomas does not specify whether these executions occurred following trials, but notes that "in the case of political crimes, there no rule of law."118 Thomas cites a Castro speech in in 1965 in which the Cuban leader admitted that Cuba had 20,000 "political prisoners"—an unclear number of whom had participated in armed actions against thegovernment.119 Human Rights Watch is not aware of the Cuban government providing restitution to any victim or family member for any of these human rights violations.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. here's a thought

Pressure the US govt. to sign on to the International Criminal Court, and then who knows, it might be able to make some sort of case against some Cuban before the Court.

Meanwhile, perhaps you'd like to start your own thread about this hobbyhorse, which doesn't appear to be entered in the race when the thread is about the INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT and sanctions against US allies for ratifying it. (See, I can use capitals too; I just don't do it in my post titles.)

I happen to be keenly interested in the ICC and the US's attempts to sabotage it, and DU members' thoughts on the matter. If you aren't, that's fine with me. When I see a thread I'm not interested in, of course, I don't feel compelled to post in it about something else altogether ...

.
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reknewcomer Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Here's my thinking...
The ICC needs to reign in Castro and his abuse of innocent people. That was my point.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. how about a clue, instead

I was being rather facetious and just looking for a clever segue when I suggested siccing the ICC on Cuba.

You might try familiarizing yourself with what the ICC has jurisdiction over, and then suggesting how exactly it might "reign in Castro".

I could still do with an explanation of what this has to do with the subject of the thread, of course.

.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. lemme help you out

http://www.un.org/law/icc/index.html

http://www.un.org/law/icc/statute/99_corr/cstatute.htm

ROME STATUTE OF THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT

...

PART 2. JURISDICTION, ADMISSIBILITY AND APPLICABLE LAW

Article 5
Crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court

1. The jurisdiction of the Court shall be limited to the most serious crimes of concern to the international community as a whole. The Court hasjurisdiction in accordance with this Statute with respect to the following crimes:

(a) The crime of genocide;

(b) Crimes against humanity;

(c) War crimes;

(d) The crime of aggression.


2. The Court shall exercise jurisdiction over the crime of aggression once a provision is adopted in accordance with articles 121 and 123 defining the crime and setting out the conditions under which the Court shall exercise jurisdiction with respect to this crime. Such a provision shall be consistent with the relevant provisions of the Charter of the United Nations.


(Unfortunately, the condition precedent in para. 2 has never been met, so nobody can go after George W. Bush under 1(d).)

Which crime were you suggesting that someone might prosecute Castro for? (And I'm thinking you may want to read articles 6, 7 and 8 carefully before answering ... perhaps especially 7.)

.
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Afghan Massacre: The Convoy of Death
The thousand who disappeared in Afghanistan in 2001 come to mind as a perfect case for the ICC.

<clips>

In November, 2001, during the U.S. campaign in Afghanistan, thousands of Taliban prisoners were killed while traveling in sealed containers on their way from Kunduz to a prison at Sheberghan. The bodies of the dead and some who survived were then buried in a mass grave at nearby Dasht-i-Leile. U.S. special forces were closely involved and in charge at the time. Were they involved in a war crime? The Pentagon denies the events. The eyewitnesses tell what happened. WorldLink TV Spotlight is hosted by Mark Hertsgaard.

http://www.linktv.org/programming/programDescription.php4?code=massacre

<clips>

Did American soldiers commit war crimes during the invasion of Afghanistan?

According to eyewitnesses, U.S. Special Forces supervised--some say orchestrated--the systematic murder of more than 3,000 captured Taliban soldiers in November 2001. That charge is the centerpiece of a documentary film, "Afghan Massacre: The Convoy of Death," expected to be released in the United States within the next few weeks.

"There has been a cover-up by the Pentagon," says Scottish director Jamie Doran, a former producer for the BBC. "They're hiding behind a wall of secrecy, hoping this story will go away--but it won't." Indeed, "Massacre" has already been shown on German television and to several European parliaments. The United Nations has promised an investigation. But thanks to a virtual media blackout, few Americans are aware that, on the eve of another war, their nation's reputation as a bastion of human rights is rapidly dissipating.

American Involvement in Genocide?

The allegations stem from the uprising at Qala-i-Jhangi fortress, a dramatic event that marked the last major confrontation between U.S.-backed forces of the Northern Alliance and the Taliban government. Several hundred prisoners, including "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh, revolted against their guards and seized a weapons cache. Responding to Special Forces soldiers working with the Northern Alliance, U.S. jets used bombs to kill most of the rebels, but not before CIA interrogator Johnny "Mike" Spann and an unknown number of Northern Alliance soldiers were shot to death.

Eighty-six Talibs, including Lindh, survived the Qala-i-Jhangi revolt. Meanwhile, 8,000 more soldiers surrendered at Kunduz, the last Taliban redoubt in northern Afghanistan. Commanders loyal to General Abdul Rashid Dostum, an Uzbek warlord who later became Hamid Karzai's deputy defense minister, had painstakingly negotiated the surrender of the Taliban from Kunduz and Qala-i-Jhangi.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/afghan/2003/0204mass.htm







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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. LOL guess you know as little about Cuba as you do about Colombia
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. How about Allies should stop kissing US's butt?

The US will do what the sum of every other nation with an army will let it do.

I have about had it with these strongly worded statements.

The rest of the world needs to either do something about it or just shut up and sit quietly waiting their turn to be bombed.
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RPG-7 Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Because they are trying to end democracy in South America
Cut off the military aid, get in touch with the right generals within these countries, explain to them that they need a "friend" in the country that cares more about Americas needs than stupid things like what the denizens of the country may think about things and that they could get all manner of shiny new death toys if they perform a military coup and presto-chango we roll the clock back to the good old Reagan days.
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. RayGun days are alive and well in Colombia complete with death
squads with chain saws. This is were our tax dollars are going. This is what our country supports. :puke:

<clips>

Speech by Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), July 23, 2003

...Aid to Colombia has failed to end the drug flow to America, and it has failed to protect human rights. Strong ties between the Colombian military and the paramilitary group AUC, which has been listed by the United States as a terrorist organization, are deeply disturbing, given the atrocious human rights abuses committed by the AUC. Most interestingly, The Washington Post recently published the findings of a report commissioned by President Uribe that showed the AUC, which frequently fights alongside the Colombian military, is a drug-trafficking organization. The report estimated that as much as 80 percent of the AUC's funding comes from drug trafficking. This means that the U.S. is funding a military that is working with a terrorist drug-trafficking organization in an effort to eradicate drugs. Does this not seem a little paradoxical?

The AUC's close relationship with the Colombian military is also disturbing because it implicates the United States in human rights abuses. How can the U.S. fund a military which has combined forces with a terrorist group responsible for torture, executions, and disappearances of innocent Colombian citizens? Until the Colombian government ceases its relationship with violent paramilitary groups that terrorize ordinary citizens, the United States must not directly fund it.

http://www.ciponline.org/colombia/030723kuci.htm



Loose translation: The United States seems destined by providence to plague the Americas with misery in name of the freedom.

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reknewcomer Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. The last death squads in Columbia I saw were rebels killing innocents
Between killing hostages and kidnapping innocent people there does not appear to be a lot of good will to go around in the jungles of Columbia.
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RPG-7 Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. wonder why that was the last one you saw?
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Yeah, you were there... right, and I'm Mother Teresa
Welcome to Barrancabermeja, murder capital of the world and rich in natural resouces (read: OIL)

<clips>

... Paramilitary forces have slowly taken control of one neighborhood after another. ELN members are laying low or have retreated to the countryside. Paramilitary violence has focused lately on human rights groups, popular organizations, and labor unions. Since the government revealed plans to grant the ELN a neutral and demilitarized zone west of Barrancabermeja, the violence has only increased. Big landowners and cattle ranchers—the staunchest supporters of the paramilitaries—have strongly opposed any plans for creating a neutral zone.

... "Seven deaths so far this weekend," said Díaz. "It is starting to become a massacre." For Colombians, the designation of massacre requires at least nine victims, he explained. "We don’t have the means and time to carry out a decent investigation," Díaz sighed. "The United States gives the Colombian army Black Hawk helicopters. But at the district attorney’s office, we have a shortage of paper clips. Nine investigators share one computer. We lack the technology to start a fingerprint database. Often we can’t visit the crime scene for danger of being shot. Witnesses are too scared to talk. All that remains is a superficial ballistic evaluation. Most of the time, all we can do is determine the type of weapon used."

Human Shields
"Ninety-nine percent impunity," commented activist Henry Lozano, behind the bulletproof windows in his office of the human rights organization Credhos. "It is a public secret that the army and paramilitary have close ties. The army disarms the guerrillas, turning them into cannon fodder. The paramilitaries step in and clear the neighborhoods of the guerrillas."

A local cameraman who didn’t wish to be named said that every now and then the police arrest a couple of paramilitaries. "Within a few days, they are released and roaming the streets again.," he added. "We all know they are good friends. Army, police, and paramilitaries can be seen in the same bars, sharing drinks and playing cards."

"Our region is so rich in natural resources, but 80 percent of the population is living below the poverty line," said Lozano. "With the current 40 percent unemployment rate, the paramilitaries have a never-ending source of recruits." Lozano explained that the paramilitaries offer a monthly salary of $250, nearly twice what the ELN can pay. Many former guerrilla fighters have switched sides and now inform on their former buddies. Locals say that paramilitaries receive substantial support from the region’s narco-traffickers.

http://www.crimesofwar.org/colombia-mag/teun03.html


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reknewcomer Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Hi Mom
My lifelong nextdoor neighbor had their son and his wife murdered by FARC terrorists while they were hiking in the mountains of Columbia.
They had earlier reported a home burglery and identified the thief and he was arrested. It turns out he was a FARC member and his buddies caught the couple hiking and then raped, knifed and left them to die.

If you want to worship FARC terrorists and their kind then I suggest you hike in their lair and see how long you last in their sick and demented world. The sooner they are rounded up the better.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. whozat?
"If you want to worship FARC terrorists and their kind ..."

I seem to have missed something. Was somebody doing that?

http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0326-03.htm

"Colombia's military uses helicopters and airplanes to spray rainforests with glyphosate, a chemical manufactured by Monsanto," Panetta said. "They're supposedly killing coca plants, but they spray indiscriminately. In La Hormiga, a small city in the Amazon Territory, the spraying killed medicinal plants and food crops such as yucca. Yet, the adjacent coca fields flourished. Glyphosate seeps into the soil and water. Fish die in contaminated rivers."

People of the Amazon Territory's Putumayo region lose cows and other farm animals to glyphosate. "We have no birds or butterflies," said Palacios.

Residents, often indigenous people, develop diarrhea, fever and other ailments. Besides dead crops and livestock, paramilitary soldiers, working closely with the military, kidnap, torture and massacre people to force them off the land. "Indigenous peoples leave their sacred ancestral lands," said Palacios, who lives in Putumayo.

"If farmers stay, the paramilitary forces them to grow coca to finance its operations," Panetta added. "The farmers must also pay taxes to the paramilitary. But when the guerillas, who want reforms, find out, they attack the farmers as collaborators."

... Meanwhile, the violent war on drugs has driven 1 million Colombians off their land. That may be the whole point.

"The U.S. has a hidden agenda in the war on drugs," Panetta said. "It is getting and keeping control of Colombia's resources: gold, silver, copper. Colombia may have the largest oil reserve in the Americas. The U.S. wants to control it." Gamboa Zuniga agreed: "The armed participants in this conflict are fighting for control of strategic places for business."


Sometimes one almost thinks that if there weren't "terrorists" in whatever part of the world the US is after colonizing, it would just have to manufacture some in order to have a "reason" for all the killing of people and poisoning of their land and livestock that the US has to get done, to get what it's after ...

.




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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Excuse me?? Worship FARC terrorists?? Don't f*ck'n put words in my mouth
What I posted to you were documented FACTS about the Colombian military-supported PARAMILITARIES. I NEVER said word one about the FARC or the ELN. YOU were the one that brought them up.

Are we to understand then that YOU support the PARAMILITARIES who are responsible for 70% of the massacres in Colombia?

<clips>

Two leftist guerrilla groups, the FARC and the ELN, are responsible for kidnappings for profit, killings of civilians by assassination, and indiscriminate use of weapons such as gas cylinder bombs. Right-wing paramilitary groups are responsible for the majority of human rights violations in Colombia, including massacres and targeted assassinations, particularly those of rural community leaders, trade unionists and other civilians. The major human rights violation by the Colombian armed forces-well documented by international and local human rights groups-- is collaboration with paramilitary forces, ranging from tolerating paramilitary activity to direct involvement in abuses. The violence is greatly aggravated by, but not caused by, profits from the drug trade, especially the explosion of coca and poppy production.

http://www.lawg.org/pages/new%20pages/countries/Colombia/intro-Colombia.htm


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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nothing Dumbya Has Done Makes Sense
Why should this issue be any different?

He will have his day in the International Criminal Court. I won't die until it happens.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. Penalizing those that refuse to exempt the US,...
,...from being subject to the ICC is just plain horse shit (whoops, insulting shit, again). On the other hand, what criminal do you know who wouldn't try to punish others for similar actions? I mean, c'mon,...this is common sense here. Thumping on the HRC doesn't change the fact that the US is wrong in punishing those who refuse to exempt the US from the ICC.
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. US military aid to Colombia--the WORST human rights abuser
in the western hemisphere. Yet after Egypt and Israel Colombia is the 3rd largest recipient of US military aid despite being the worst abuser of human rights in this hemisphere.

<clips>

For the past 50 years the South American nation of Colombia has been in a state of civil war. The conflict intensified when the government terminated peace talks with the FARC-EP (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia - People's Army) rebel movement in February 2002, and this was further compounded when right-wing hardliner Alvaro Uribe Velez assumed the presidency in August 2002 and immediately declared a state of emergency - ushering in an even more repressive environment.

A central element of the Colombian conflict is the widespread and systematic violation of human rights; indeed, Colombia has the worst record in the Western Hemisphere. Agents of the State, most notably the Colombian police, military and the paramilitary death squads grouped under the AUC umbrella, routinely target large sectors of the civilian population for assassination, 'disappearance', torture and forced displacement. Those most affected by this State-sponsored terror include trade unionists, human rights workers, land-reform advocates, community leaders, students, academics, journalists and entire rural communities, including a disproportionately high number of indigenous and Afro-Colombian people.

Despite this appalling state of affairs, Colombia remains the third largest recipient of United States military aid in the world, with the now infamous 'Plan Colombia' alone having supplied billion in military training and hardware in recent years. Although this aid was given using the pretext of the 'War on Drugs', even Washington now admits that their real target are the growing insurgencies of the FARC-EP and ELN (National Liberation Army).

This counter-insurgency assistance is aimed at pushing the rebels and their civilian supporters out of regions rich in natural resources. Although the Colombian army and paramilitaries are responsible for the vast majority of this forced displacement, the U.S. too is responsible for driving tens of thousands from their land through a vicious campaign of chemical warfare, similar to the use of 'Agent Orange' in Vietnam.


http://www.anncol.org/side/41




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reknewcomer Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Yea those FARC and their partners in terror are real peaceful too
A bit lopsided to blame it all on the US.
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RPG-7 Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. whatever FARC is..
Edited on Wed Dec-10-03 04:54 PM by RPG-7
they don't require a fantastic amount of US support to traffic in drugs and murder people where for some reason we pay the government handsomely to do the same things.
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Exactly right...
Welcome to DU, RPG-7! :hi:

<clips>

...Two leftist guerrilla groups, the FARC and the ELN, are responsible for kidnappings for profit, killings of civilians by assassination, and indiscriminate use of weapons such as gas cylinder bombs. Right-wing paramilitary groups are responsible for the majority of human rights violations in Colombia, including massacres and targeted assassinations, particularly those of rural community leaders, trade unionists and other civilians. The major human rights violation by the Colombian armed forces-well documented by international and local human rights groups-- is collaboration with paramilitary forces, ranging from tolerating paramilitary activity to direct involvement in abuses. The violence is greatly aggravated by, but not caused by, profits from the drug trade, especially the explosion of coca and poppy production.

US policy towards Colombia is pouring fuel on the fire. Between 1999-2002, the United States gave Colombia $2.04 billion, of which 83% has gone to Colombia's military and police. US counterdrug policy prioritized a massive aerial fumigation program with controversial environmental and human impact. During this time period, human rights improvements by the Colombian armed forces stalled, as did reforms to Colombia's judiciary. The intransigent FARC guerrillas pulled out of negotiations with the Colombian government. In 2002, Colombians elected a hard-line president, Alvaro Uribe, who has implemented controversial state of emergency measures and escalated the war

http://www.lawg.org/pages/new%20pages/countries/Colombia/intro-Colombia.htm





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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Human Rights and USA Military Aid to Colombia III
How bout you tell the dead, tortured, and displaced how "lopsided" it is.

85% of US military aid goes to the Colombian military who in turn supports the paras. The paras happen to be on the US "terrorist" list yet Uncle Sam keeps funneling the money to Colombia. In case you didn't know, Occidental Oil spent $8.6 million (U.S.) lobbying the U.S. government for military aid to Colombia and aid to protect the Caño-Limón pipeline. Hmmm, now why are most of those atrocities commited in the areas with OIL and precious metal mines. :puke:

<clips>

Political violence in Colombia increased significantly in 2001, continuing a trend registered the previous year. Colombians fled their homes and even their country in record numbers, facing hunger, the elements, and disease in desperate efforts to save themselves and their families.

In the first ten months of the year, the office of the Public Advocate (Defensoría del Pueblo) recorded 92 massacres, which they defined as the killing of three or more people at the same place and at the same time. Most were linked to paramilitary groups working with the tolerance or support of the security forces. Most paramilitaries are allied in the United Self-Defense Groups of Colombia (Autodefensas Unidas de Colombia, AUC). Other massacres were perpetrated by anti-government guerrillas. Both paramilitaries and guerrillas reportedly moved with ease throughout the country, including via helicopter.

Certain military units and police detachments continued to promote, work with, support, profit from, and tolerate paramilitary groups, treating them as a force allied to and compatible with their own. At their most brazen, these relationships involved active coordination during military operations between government and paramilitary units; communication via radios, cellular telephones, and beepers; the sharing of intelligence, including the names of suspected guerrilla collaborators; the sharing of fighters, including active-duty soldiers serving in paramilitary units and paramilitary commanders lodging on military bases; the sharing of vehicles, including army trucks used to transport paramilitary fighters; coordination of army roadblocks, which routinely let heavily-armed paramilitary fighters pass unchallenged; and payments made from paramilitaries to military officers for their support.

In preparation for this consultation, Colombian human rights groups submitted a list of five massacres carried out by paramilitaries in 2001 and January of 2002 in which there is credible evidence that Colombian military units either took direct part or allowed the killings to take place and the perpetrators to escape. Separately, Human Rights Watch received recent, credible, and detailed reports of continued collaboration between the Colombian military and paramilitary groups in the Middle Magdalena region, under the control of the Fifth Brigade and units attached to the Colombian Navy; the southern Pacific coast, under the control of the Third Brigade and units of the Colombian Navy; the department of Putumayo, under the control of the Twenty-Fourth Brigade and units of the Colombian Navy; the Urabá region, under the control of the Seventeenth Brigade and units of the Colombian Navy; and the department of Antioquia, under the control of the Fourth Brigade.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engamr230302002


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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-10-03 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
16. If the US is so noble, why demand exemption from ICC?
And, please,...don't throw out the red flag rhetoric (it's too political,...ha ha ha).
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