Microsoft says open source violates 235 patents

[toddaa]

Source: CNET News.com

In an interview with Fortune, Microsoft top lawyer Brad Smith alleges that the Linux kernel violates 42 Microsoft patents, while its user interface and other design elements infringe on a further 65. OpenOffice.org is accused of infringing 45, along with 83 more in other free and open-source programs, according to Fortune.

It is not entirely clear how Microsoft might proceed in enforcing these patents, but the company has been encouraging large tech companies that depend on Linux to ink patent deals, starting with its controversial pact with Novell last November. Microsoft has also cited Linux protection playing a role in recent patent swap deals with Samsung and Fuji Xerox. Microsoft has also had discussions, but not reached a deal with, Red Hat, as noted in the Fortune piece.

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer is also quoted in the article as saying Microsoft's open-source competitors need to "play by the same rules as the rest of the business."

Read more: http://news.com.com/Report+Microsoft+says+open+source+violates+235+patents/2100-1014_3-6183437.html

---

Wonder how many patents IBM will use to counter this. Whatever this is about, I'm sure the dismal failure of Vista plays a role.

[wtmusic]

1. Is Vista a dismal failure?

:shrug:

[Solo_in_MD]

3. Its certainly less than spectacular

Dell went back to offering XP as well as Vista
The upgrade is a real pain, you need much more resources than the minimum listed to have any kind of performance
Serious lack of drivers and other support software for anything but major brands

I won't touch it for production for at least another 6 months, though I do have an experimental system with it on it.

[wtmusic]

4. As much as I like Macs

the first version of Mac OSX was the same--I installed it then uninstalled it ASAP (about a day long process). :grr:

[NashVegas]

86. Haha!

I didn't uninstall, I just stayed in OS 9 until X was stable and well-supported.

I'm still running 10.2.8.

[reprobate]

113. I've been running 10.4.9 since it came out with not a single problem. Of course, YMMV

[firefox_fan]

123. Now, OS X runs like a charm....

Plus, with Parallels or BootCamp you can get Windows to run on your Intel Mac pretty smoothly (and it runs UNIX already)... Love it...

[Kagemusha]

6. I think that's a fair assessment. It'll get better, but it's rough right now.

Laptop support is a BIG problem. But that will be fixed at some point. That is certain.

[toddaa]

9. The bigger problem is corporate IT has no incentive to move to it

It brings nothing to the table. It's just a big bloated desktop admin nightmare. Even more so than XP, which is pretty reliable by MS standards. Why upgrade?

[JPettus]

12. Because in a couple of years, Microsoft will stop supporting XP

It's the way to force corporations to upgrade. Otherwise, you continue to see old systems running Windows 95 and 98 out there.

[Kagemusha]

16. There's that, yes. I may be forced to upgrade as a home user.

A family member of mine does network admin work for a school board office; I can understand Vista being used by teachers and the like. I'd be less convinced about the usefulness in a corporate organization, at least at this time. There's enough organizations with such doubts that Vista acceptance has been a lot slower than MS would have liked.. which is the real point at this juncture.

[Occulus]

32. If any of your family are PC gamers, the upgrade will eventually be a necessity n/t

[kysrsoze]

64. You can always buy a game console and pay an upgrade of around $500 every 5 years

Seems cheaper than regularly swapping out motherboards, OS's, memory, processors, video cards, etc.

[Kagemusha]

65. Actually that's more or less what I've done.

I use my PC as a work computer (as well as browsing the internet for purposes like typing these words) and for communication, and the communication part just doesn't mix with games well. I can't tell you if it's really cheaper or better all told - a quality new TV to get the most out of a next gen console took a bite out of my wallet, but I've been very happy with the results; it's just, I have a much, much reduced chance of Dead on Arrival parts or other complications this way. The hassle is simply tiny compared. It's not a perfect solution but such a thing doesn't really exist...

Anyway, it just suited me better to separate the PC and console functions and stick with my work computer as-is for a while longer. I might change my thinking in a year but for now I can't claim to be suffering at all.

[kysrsoze]

63. Most people won't even have to upgrade, despite support dropping

My dad is still on 98se and I'm still on Windows 2000 at my job. Toddaa is right - how many small, medium and large companies are going to spend the cash to replace all their desktops and laptops due to the ridiculous, bloaty hardware requirements? Even when leases are up, they'll stick with XP for a long time if they can.

If the hardware and software manufacturers keep supporting XP (which they likely will, due to huge installed base), XP will live on for years. It's much more advanced than 98 ever was, so there won't be a reason to switch to Vista unless you absolutely must have it or you get a new computer that is built for it.

[karlrschneider]

80. Wouldn't any Vista compatible machine run XP perfectly well?

Maybe there is some hardware that only has Vista drivers...? Hmm.

[ngant17]

103. wouldn't surprise me if M$ does this on purpose

just so you get locked into Vista and you can't fall back to XP or some other version of Windoze.

The good thing about Ubuntu and most of the other Linux OS packages out there, is that they will likely have built-in drivers for all the on-board stuff put on the motherboards, the only thing you might have to watch for is the BIOS settings as sometimes having on-board LAN and/or on-board modems enabled, that might confuse Linux at install. So you should disable them in BIOS until you can be sure there a Linux driver for them.

[karlrschneider]

104. I have Ubuntu in its own partition...using it right now. :D

But I keep XP onboard too for the occasions when I need to use some software that hasn't been Linux ported.
:-)

[Occulus]

31. What if the corporations decided they've had enough?

What if, when the time comes, the corporations work together for a change and say, "Um, thanks, but- no. We like XP. Improve that instead."

What then?

(Personally- I'd love to see Micro$oft be the very public recipient of a very loud, hard smack in the face. But then, I also use linux, and I'm mad as hell about this patent thing.)

[JPettus]

55. Won't Happen

First, though stable, XP has a number of security issues that can't be fixed in the current architecture.

Due to security concerns, Microsoft made some major changes to Vista to try to make it more secure. The problem is that they apparently couldn't do that without being aggravating as hell to users, even though Linux and Macs are more secure without the problem.

Then, because they kept running into problems, they had to drop a number of new features from the release as they were already pushing the release date back again and again. Because so many things are intertwined in software OS's, that meant having to try to patch the places where things came out, and those patches all needed additional testing. And, often in software when you fix one thing, you might break something else, so very exhaustive testing needed to take place. They couldn't do that as much as it required because (see next point)

Then, because they had to get it released for an influx of new revenue, they didn't test it properly and as a result a number of problems were already showing, so Microsoft was looking at a Service Pack 1 release when Vista was out barely a month.

Vista may be eventually a stable and useful release, don't expect that for a minimum of six months and likely longer.

In the meantime, there are better options.

[ProudDad]

106. Don't spread rumours

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/operating_systems/consumer_windows_xp_gets_another_lifecycle.html

"Under the revised life-cycle guidelines, Windows XP Home and Media Center support will end on the second Tuesday in April 2009, and extended support will end five years later. The latter five years is significant. Microsoft doesn't typically offer extended support for consumer products."

Home users will be covered with security patches (VERY important to windoze users) until 2014...

[truedelphi]

117. In some ideal alternate universe, some brilliant consumers

have developped reverse patenting- wherein no major computer developper can F&*k up the system the majority of people rely on without allowing the old system to be revered and supported for fifty years (This said as someone who still uses the Windows 95 they bought in 1998 for many things except dialing into the internets)

[mntleo2]

20. Agreed Vista Sucks

...it is installed on my new laptop (Toshiba) and it has lots of bugs. I also do not like it at all. I love Open Office, it is a great office suite.

Cat In Seattle

[FloridaJudy]

29. Vista bites the big one

My old computer had XP, and I had very few problems. When it finally died, I couldn't find a PC that didn't have Vista. Now the whole damn thing freezes up at least once a day and has to be rebooted.

Vista: the Paris Hilton of OS. Sure it looks pretty....

[Occulus]

33. And so, I'm very conflicted

I'm a gamer. I LOVE playing and editing PC games, and always have- even in the days of the Atari 2600, I would 'flick' the power on the console to obtain corrupted graphics that made the game just weird on occasion. I guess you could describe that today as me modding my Atari games. My first PC mod/map was for the original Doom.

I WANT 'CRYSIS'. But, it requires DirectX 10- only available on Vista.

I may end up having my most powerful PC be a standalone desktop in a media center-style case, running Vista and connected to my (embarassingly big) HDTV. While it would be absolutely gorgeous to look at, I really really really don't want to move to Vista for any reason under the sun; if I do, I really really really don't want it to connect to the internet if I do get it because I know Vista dials home, and thus I'm certain I don't really want Vista at all... but, as a gamer, I'm going to be forced to get it.

I. Hate. Microft. No, scratch that. I hate the fact that Micro$oft has convinced everyone not to deveop for OpenGL and are now trying to kill linux via accusations of patent violations. I smell another antitrust suit in the works- but this time, users of another OS will be bringing it. Mark my words, it will be linux users, because they are the only people who can bring such a suit.

Maybe Torvalds can do it. He at the least needs to make a public statement if he hasn't already done so.

[Courtesy Flush]

125. OMG That's awesome!

I'm 47 years old, and I think video games are a waste of time, but DAMN! That's a cool game! I can see myself getting hooked on it.

Good thing I'm keeping away from Vista.

[entanglement]

127. Well, at least MS is not to blame for OpenGL's problems

OpenGL is guided and governed by an ARB (Architecture Review Board) comprising many big tech companies. New features have to be voted in (that's right, voted in). Meanwhile, rapid changes in 3D card technology (pixel shaders, vertex shaders, texture compression, and so on) occurred, and Microsoft was able to keep DirectX (more specifically Direct3D) up-to-date while OpenGL struggled to keep up. Vendors had to resort to the clumsy OpenGL extension mechanism to enable new features before the ARB brought them into OpenGL.

BTW, Direct3D was way inferior compared to OpenGL at one time - John Carmack was a firm OpenGL backer till about 2001 or so. But Direct3D kept improving (features-wise) and it is the accepted standard for PC gaming today.

MS claims DirectX-10 is a complete re-write and will significantly cut the overhead in DirectX function calls - we'll have to see how true that is.

[Blue_Tires]

147. wow....me want crysis

[CRF450]

158. Contrary to what some people are saying...

Vista has been a better launch than XP. I know two people (my sister and my best friend) who bought a Vista laptop. The only problems their having is some programs wont work, a few bugs here and their, and thats about it. They havent had any stability problems, so I'll upgrade to it later this year when I build a new system. Yeah, I want Crysis too, and as a gamer, theirs no way around it. Gotta get Vista. I'v read that that games perform worse on Vista than XP, but come on, high end pc's are running most newer games well over 60fps, half the time over 100, so why worry? Its gonna play smooth either way.

[truedelphi]

115. I wish more people realized that it is SO DUMB to get the latest of anything

Always better to let other people and other companies get the major players to
straighten out the bugs

[JPettus]

11. Well, it's "pretty"

But nowhere near as functional as either XP or the latest Linux distros. I recommend Ubuntu for people instead as it's free, but they can be very happy with XP Service Pack 2 if they are wed to some particular piece of Windows-centric software.

As for Microsoft's claims, I note that SCO made the same claims and nearly all of theirs have been thrown out of court. This is simply a M$ ploy to try to frighten open source companies and users. It's already worked with Novell.

[wtmusic]

24. Either Novell was frightened

or they realized that paying off Microsoft was cheaper than fighting them, even if they eventually won.

[bemildred]

26. Actually, it would not surprise me if Novell and M$ were in cahoots.

Doing such a deal in order to make doing such a deal look credible.

[papau]

130. M$ paid Novel much more than Novel paid M$ in order to get idea out that Novel paid

a royalty - and of course since under the GNU licensing Novel is not permitted to pay a royalty, the media got conned and mis-reported the legal reason for the money movement.

Novel paid M$ to not sue it - so it was not a royalty and therefore the payment was permitted under the old GNU license (in June the new GNU license takes effect and such payments for not suing also become forbidden under the linux license). M$ paid Novel a "balancing payment" - because they are bigger was the explanation - that was much larger than what Novel paid M$.

After June, M$'s only path is to either give up the attack on Linux, or to sue the customers that use Linux. They have actually threaten companies like Sony who use Linux - and Sony paid the extortion in order to not get tangled up in Court - but the vast majority of companies have refused - and M$ is afraid of actually taking anyone to court for fear losing corporate Windows sales.

The next year will be interesting - I'm betting they back off after they've put out as much FUD as they are able.

[Occulus]

34. You should take a look at

Compiz for linux.

It's better than Aero. One whole hell of a lot better.

[silverojo]

42. But why the hell do you need any of this junk?

When I'm trying to work on my computer, I don't need stuff moving around in 3D. If you want to play a video game, play a video game...otherwise, leave the desktop the hell alone.

[NorthernSpy]

139. damn kids and their fancy 3-d desktops!

They should be content with summoning emacs from the command line like us serious folk!


x(

[jollyreaper2112]

119. I've been a long-time linux watcher

Fiddled with it now and again over the years but never made the switch because Linux couldn't offer me everything I needed. This is coming from a confirmed MS hater. When I heard about XP's evils I vowed to make Win2K my last OS. I've been running it at home and kept that oath. When I got my new laptop it came with XP and it was actually stable by that point so I figured what the hell, I'll keep it. It works well enough but I never would have upgraded to it on purpose.

I've been playing with the new Linux distros with VMWARE. (Awesome product! Allows you to simulate multiple computers on one box, clean and isolated environments.) Ubuntu is very, very kewl. Visually, it's quite pretty. All of the essentials you need are sitting there right on the desktop. For the average user, they'll be up and running just as quickly as on a Windows box. It'll take a little getting used to with the way the file system is handled on Linux vs. PC, you don't have drive letters and the like. But the multimedia support is all there. The only other problem is that installing software isn't like what you're used to on Windows so that can be a bit of a pain. Then again, most home users I know can't even manage installing software so they're turning to the geeks for help anyway. :)

Fedora also looks very neat. Again, it comes with all the essentials in the basic install -- multimedia apps, Open Office, web browser, etc. I also like how Ubuntu has the autopatching feature, nice and painless like Microsoft tries to do, except this one doesn't have any of that Windows Genuine Advantage bullshit.

So, the age of the Linux desktop is pretty much here. I'm stoked. ;)

[NorthernSpy]

140. I agree. In terms of easy usability for the average person, I think we're finally ~there~...

Linux on the desktop has really done some evolving.


Which is why it bugs me that the new Dell products with pre-installed Ubuntu reportedly won't include an emulator. Anyone who wants Windows emulation for their old software will have to hunt down the applications and install them himself.

Of course, we can all see Microsoft's fingerprints all over that particular decision. They wouldn't want the fact that there is a way to use your Windows software with your Linux system to become a selling point that expands user choice. Good for the consumer = bad for Microsoft.

[jollyreaper2112]

141. agreed

I don't hate microsoft for their products as much as I hate them for their business practices. They are the poster child for why "free market capitalism" does not work in practice as well as it works in theory. The best idea will not win, the best-marketed idea will. The sales weasels at Microsoft are Wizards of Bullshit. Microsoft's own business practices don't just skate along the border of illegality, they often cross the line into outright criminal behavior. They use theft, intimidation, bribery, and a host of lies to cover it all up. The best idea cannot win in such an environment. None of this serves the public's best interest. It's all about lining the pockets of a billionare few while fucking the public sideways. Microsoft has done more to hold back the computer industry than they've ever done to advance it.

To someone who hasn't been following Microsoft over the years, this might sound like kook conspiracy theory or outright paranoia. To those DUers who might be wondering, Microsoft is the Bush Administration of software. Consider all the shit you know for a fact the Bushies have done, stuff that's not supposition or innuendo but cold, hard facts and realize it's the same way with Microsoft.

[liberal N proud]

53. Microsoft's latest version of Office products not fully compatible with Vista

Some of the features in the new Office 2007 will not work in the Vista operating system.
Our company rolled out Office 2007 and will soon be rolling out Vista. (We are mickysoft guinea pigs)
The rep from Microsoft indicated at the roll-out that at that time they didn't know if the products would work on Vista.
First off, Office 2007 is a mess, it is like learning the software all over again, nothing is in the same place it was before.
Second, We are testing Vista and some features in Office 2007 do not work on the Vista platform. They have yet to provide a fix.

[ProudDad]

105. Vista is the latest feeble m$ attempt

to make a PC look and feel like a mac to the unsophisticated user.

To us professionals it's another piece of shit windoze OS, a huge resource hog with the default settings setup WRONG and the levers to set it up right hidden or inaccessible.

I just bought a new laptop that had vista on it 'cause obviously m$ has subsidized the roll out at the end of January and the machine was about $200 cheaper than it would have been in December. I'm going to blow away that vista crap with a Linux install and have a machine that HUMS!!!

[keroro gunsou]

129. um....

yes it is. it's windows ME for dual-cores.

i hate to admit it, xp has to be the most stable of the windows i've ever used.

[enki23]

2. fuck. steve. fucking. ballmer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc

[silverojo]

41. That man is certifiably insane

I've seen other videos of this raving idiot on YouTube, as well...M$ really is like some sort of Nazi corporation bent on taking over the world. :scared:

[JPettus]

57. The Borg

And, you WILL be assimilated. ;-)

[entanglement]

126. Nobody has seen Ballmer and Cheney together, btw

:scared:

[Spinzonner]

5. This should be interesting

It may not be a good idea for Microsoft to waken the antitrust dragon


:popcorn:

[alcibiades_mystery]

8. You're talking about the Bush DOJ...the anti-trust dragon is dead

That said, this is a failed project for Microsoft, as per usual.

[ProudDad]

107. The bushies' days are numbered n/t

[JPettus]

58. Pffft!

Anti-Trust? In the Bush Administration, which will simply take a payoff instead and drop the issue because they are busy trying to keep minorities from voting?

Gimme a break. LOL.

[anotherdrew]

7. ok Stevie, open windows's source so we can look for alleged violations of patent too! damn asshole

and... least we forget... watch the monkey boy spaz out again...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4860483760049380308

[JPettus]

13. Microsoft will find the same thing SCO did

And their lawsuits would be thrown out unless M$ can actually show the code where the alleged violations are. You can't run the court system to keep your stuff hidden and make outrageous claims in court unless you can back them up.

[anotherdrew]

27. I think everyone's expected this move from M$ for some time now

it's almost odd that they're bothering to try this, but the length to which SCO has been able to drag out what should be an open and shut case... M$ must think they've learned something from that case. Maybe the best thing would be for someone, like red hat perhaps, to sue microsoft first, based on the bogus claims they're making hurting their business. Also these other companies they've shaken-down should sue.

It sure looks like they're trying the same shit SCO did.

[silverojo]

43. The man's clearly on hard-core drugs

Look at him sweat in this video--even his ELBOWS are sweating! I never knew elbows COULD sweat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcdk0DW0EkQ

[nebenaube]

66. no doubt...

Windows 2000 uses the FreeBSD TCP/IP Stack. Somehow I doubt they paid for it.

[Gman]

10. Dell started offering Ubuntu on it's computers about a week ago

That and the abysmal failure of Vista has set off some huge alarm bells at MSFT. I'm typing this using Firefox on Ubuntu Studio. I investigated Linux when Vista was released. Ubuntu Studio was released Friday and the ubuntustudio.org servers crashed from the load.

Sell your MSFT before it's wallpaper.

[JPettus]

14. I installed Ubuntu six months ago

And I'm hooked. I've converted everything over to Ubuntu now and only use Windows on the government computer I'm required to use for work.

[Triana]

21. Ubuntu Rocks!!

I am slowly moving all my desktops at home to that, use Linux at work (may use Ubuntu there too), and am getting a Mac for my next laptop.

BYEEEEEEEEEEEEE MickeySnot! Vista sugs red monkey arses in Hell.

[ngant17]

39. Definitely agree with Ubuntu

You can get the latest version of Ubuntu for $2 dollars plus shipping in the mail. From OSDisc.com. Or download a free install CD with a hi-speed connection and CD burner.

I just installed version 7.04. Very impressed. Even the older Ubuntu versions like Breezy Badger works great for me. It had XP-drivers for my motherboard, and my only other choice would have been to buy an XP operating system for $100 bucks. Also the video and audio codecs have to be loaded separately as copyright laws make it a 2-step process and they can't put the open-source code on the same install CD.

[Kolesar]

46. Is Ubuntu an operating system? Do you have a description or a link?

Good morning.

[Triana]

50. http://www.ubuntu.com/ (n/t)

[Gman]

52. Ubuntu is a flavor of the Linux operating system

Get it at: http://www.ubuntu.com/. Download the .iso image and burn it to a CD. Then boot from that CD to try out Ubuntu to see if you like it.

It's one of the best, if not the best out there. I've got a dual boot XP/Ubuntu system on my laptop. I only use XP for a couple apps I can't find a suitable substitute for. (MS Streets & Trips and Quickbooks).

[Kolesar]

75. Thank you. That was very compelling...eom

[jollyreaper2112]

120. see my comment above

The best way for you to "try before you buy" is to download a copy of VWMARE's vmware player (free application), then download a VM of ubuntu and give it a whirl. The advantage here is that you don't have to do a dual boot or wipe your main hard drive or do any of that silliness. You get to do a test drive of the OS within your own little virtual sandbox. If you don't like it, you can delete it as easy as you please, no problem.

Alternatively, you can download an iso for a "live CD" that you can then run from your CD-ROM drive. The full distribution fits on the CD and your computer treats it as if it's just another hard drive and boots off of it just fine. Of course, I could never get it working at home, I think my burner drive barfs on the iso. But VMWARE works like a bloody champ. Got it working on my laptop, work machine, and we use it extensively in my server class.

[ngant17]

102. try osdisc.com

Or browse over all the flavors of Linux you care to see at:

<http://www.osdisc.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi/index.html>

With Ubuntu Feisty Fawn (v7.04), the only glitch I had was that I had my on-board network LAN card enabled, and it confused Linux. I am accessing internet by external serial modem. If you're like me, I recommend that you should disable your on-board BIOS LAN ethernet (unless you already are getting hi-speed internet, in which case Linux install will be a breeze!) or disable on-board modem in BIOS settings, and then you can run an external serial or USB modem.

Approx. 70-80% of drivers for the so-called 'controller-less modem', aka Winmodems, are available with Linux drivers, but there is a small chance your internal Winmodem or on-board modem may not have a driver ported into Linux yet.

Check
http://www.linmodems.org/
for current Linux drivers of Winmodems.

[Triana]

49. THANKS!

I got HS and a burner. Weeeeeeee!

[Omphaloskepsis]

91. They will ship you cds for free.. It just takes a long time.

Mine took about two months.. I did order hundreds to hand out in the computer lab at school.
https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

Also a little video:
http://www.librarian.net/stax/2042/do-you-ubuntu/

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

81. I've been thinking about converting to Ubuntu for a while now

But I've tried some other Linux distributions I wasn't entirely impressed with. Plus, I would find myself jonesin' for a Windows fix now again when a open source program I was trying lacked some of functionality of it's commercial counterpart. Still, I would love to ditch Windows completely. I think I'll give Linux another try with Ubuntu. I've read nothing but positive things about it, at least.

[NorthernSpy]

96. don't think of it as converting: you can just add Ubuntu to your life with a second hard drive...

(I'm not a fan of drive partitioning.)

To the extent that Ubuntu satisfies your needs as well as or better than Windows, you'll use it. To the extent that it doesn't, well, you can still use your Windows applications, either in their native habitat or with an emulator. That way, any transitions that you make can be natural ones that arise from your own needs and preferences, rather than confining perceptions of what you "should" be using or what you must use to get the job done.


I just don't want anyone to think that getting into open-source software means they have to "convert", or that their earlier, non-open choices were somehow "wrong". Open source is simply a good thing that you can explore freely and use however is best for you.

[Gen. Jack D. Ripper]

101. I see exactly what you're saying

and I agree with you about drive partitioning. Part of my bad past experiences with other Linux distributions was the fact that I had two operating systems on one hard drive. I had XP and a version of Mandrake Linux installed under two separate partitions and it was just a mess (some how my XP install had become corrupted and I couldn't boot from that partition. Luckily I was still able to manage files on that partition from Mandrake so I didn't end up losing anything). Since then I've been leary, but now I have two separate, physical (very large) drives and, I think, a great set-up for giving it another go.

[silverojo]

132. For a live CD, give Knoppix Linux a try

It's got a gorgeous interface, with the task bar, etc., at the bottom, the way you're accustomed to with Windows. (It's called the KDE Desktop.) It runs entirely off the live CD, so you can try it without installing anything. A great way to wean yourself off Windows...it has tons of software included!

And if you don't like Ubuntu's Gnome desktop (it has everything at the top, which I don't like), there's a KDE version called Kubuntu. :)

[ProudDad]

108. It's too bad michael dell's such a big bush supporter

Aw, shit, Buy Blue is gone...

[junior college]

131. Ubuntu is the best

linux distribution I've ever used in terms of installation, ease of use and workability (codecs, PLF's, etc). But linux is still a bit like tuning a carburetor and can frustrate 1st time users. Perhaps this is a good thing, no?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

15. This is the same company that outright

STOLE the DOS OS and ran to IBM with a sweetheart deal that Bill's dad set up?

LOL

[Warpy]

18. It is, and I wouldn't put it past them to copy

Linux code and rush patents on it so they could claim infringement.

The above poster was right. Unless they want to expose their own precious code, they haven't got a prayer of making the suit stick.

Of course, they face a real challenge, perfect Vista bloatware or just realize they had a sweet deal with XP and extend its shelf life until Vista is ready to go.

They will continue to support XP past 2009. They will just not offer manufacturers to license it for new machines.

[fujiyama]

22. They are certainly capable of such nastiness

One of Microsoft's major goals is destroying open source software. It's THE major threat to the bloatware software industry, Microsoft being one of the worst.

You can often find a piece of open source software just as functional as the commercial app. There are other examples, especially with antivirus and other security software.

[bemildred]

23. Open source is frequently way the heck better than the commercial app.

I am continually amazed at the crap that some companies have the chutzpah to sell.
And of course Microsoft is the poster child for selling high-priced crap.

[silverojo]

44. Nearly all my software is freeware or open source

I can count on the fingers of one hand, the programs I've purchased in the last 7 years. And these programs work great!

That's why M$ is so threatened...they can see their monopoly is crumbling....

[JPettus]

60. Be that as it may, Linux has it's bloatware too

I love OpenOffice.org, but it's quite bloated compared to some of the other office apps. But, it's the closest of the Linux office suites to being corporation ready.

[silverojo]

133. I agree, I hate OpenOffice.org

The fonts look terrible, and it takes forever to boot, even on a fairly fast computer.

[Recursion]

79. Run the "strings" utility on kernel32.dll...

...and grep for "regents of the university of california"

Funny how that only started appearing after they "completely rewrote" their TCP/IP stack...

[JPettus]

59. And stole the concept of Windows from UNIX and Apple

But they want to use the legal system as a club not to right a wrong done to them, but to harass a system that is better than their own and fast winning converts.

[Tesha]

67. Bill Gates didn't steal QDOS. In best capitalist style, he simply...

> This is the same company that outright STOLE the DOS OS
> and ran to IBM with a sweetheart deal that Bill's dad set up?

Bill gates didn't steal QDOS. In best capitalist style, he
simply offered its developer far, far less money than he knew
he was going to make on the deal with IBM and the developer,
being offered far more money than he thought he could ever
earn off of QDOS, sold it to Gates for $50,000.

For more details, read the book Big Blues: The Unmaking of
IBM by Paul Carroll.

It's what Capitalists do: cheat working people and rake in
huge bucks for doing essentially nothing at all.

Tesha

[jollyreaper2112]

122. that's the way the cookie crumbles

Do you have a problem with our corporatefeudalgangstercapitalism(tm), citizen? We have many reeducation centers available to serve you.

[KamaAina]

82. Yes, and it's also the same company that outright

STOLE the Mac GUI. "Recycle Bin" instead of "Trash Can"?! Puh-LEEEZE!

[silverojo]

134. But don't forget...

Mac stole that GUI from Xerox in the first place, which is why their lawsuit against Microsoft was thrown out. Too bad...I would've liked to see Bill Gates be forced to fork over some cash.

[Tesha]

142. Actually, that's almost entirely wrong.

> Mac stole that GUI from Xerox in the first place,

Actually, that's almost entirely wrong. Google around for
"Macintosh", "Steve Jobs", and "Xerox Star".

But if it makes you feel better to believe that, don't let
me stop you.

Tesha

[bemildred]

17. Can't have too much FUD, right? nt

[sellitman]

19. I upgraded to a Mac 2 months ago and will never go back.

Screw Microsoft.

[wtmusic]

25. congrats

you're MS-free!

:party: :toast: :party:

[sellitman]

48. Yep...completely so.

I use Open Office for Spreadsheets and Pages for Word Docs. Next is replacing my laptop. I am waiting for Leopard to be released first though.

[reprobate]

114. I haven't tried OpenOffice for about 18 months How would you compare it

to M$ Office. I was talked into buying office for Mac over a year ago. Could you compare the two for me?

[JPettus]

137. They are very much alike

Personally, if you are curious and have a PC, you can download the Windows version of Open Office for free at http://www.filehippo.com and install it to play with.

[sellitman]

155. Most of the time

Open Office is superior. It is a little different so if different is a problem then go buy MS Office. I'm happy with Open Office though.

[toddaa]

56. Apple is closed source

There isn't much of a difference between Microsoft and Apple, when it comes to open source. In fact Apple can be just as ridiculous when it comes to enforcing their bogus patents.

[wtmusic]

68. So what

Their product works, and it works well. That's the big difference between MS and Apple.

[NorthernSpy]

84. yes, Apple's products are better than Microsoft's in many regards...

But what we open-sourcers are really looking for is something with infinite possibilities that we hold in common: a free world where you have a right to apply your intelligence and imagination as you choose. Whether it's raw bleeding edge or elegant and polished enough to work out of the box for anyone, the real charm of free, open software is that it's ours.


And they're trying to take it away from us. Microsoft wants us crushed.

[wtmusic]

85. You have that right, right now

Some people want the right to be paid for the ideas they invest time and energy in. They have that right too, no?

[NorthernSpy]

92. lots of people working in open source get paid for their efforts...

There are companies built around open source software that trade on Wall Street.

Some people want the right to be paid for the ideas they invest time and energy in. They have that right too, no?

Well, ideas themselves aren't supposed to be patentable, and copyright does not apply to them. But people who want to work for a closed-source software company can do so if they wish. It's just that the rest of us have a right to choose something else.

Apple's products are pretty good. I don't deny it. I do want an iPod. Even the packaging is beautiful.

But none of that is really mine in the sense that this system I built myself is mine, or that my open-source software is mine.

Apple is good stuff, but it belongs to someone else. Open source belongs to anyone who wants to be a part of it.

[wtmusic]

93. Ideas aren't supposed to be patentable?

Ideas are just about ALL that is patentable, and copyright applies to them in many, many ways.

I work with a lot of both closed/open source software, and IMO both have an important place.

[NorthernSpy]

95. no. you can patent a particular *application* or copyright an *expression* of a idea...

You can't patent the concept of intergalactic travel. You might be able to patent an invention that makes intergalactic travel possible.

You can't copyright intergalactic travel as a literary theme. But copyright would apply to the specific wording any book you might write on the subject.

[wtmusic]

97. The difference is general vs. specific

You can certainly patent a concept of intergalactic travel, if it's specific enough. That specific idea then belongs to you, and anyone else who uses it must obtain permission.

[ProudDad]

109. The SCOTUS decisions that allowed

patents on computer software instead of copyrights was a HORRIBLE set of decisions -- down at the level of the non-decision conferring personhood on corporations.

Patenting computer software, just as patents on people's genes and DNA are an abomination.

But what else can one expect in this capitalist paradise. :shrug: :nuke:

[toddaa]

99. Apple is not "better" than Microsoft with regard to patents

Their software may be better quality, but they throw around their "intellectual property" weight just as much as Microsoft. Apple has milked this phony aura of being some sort of benevolent white knight of the computing industry, but when you get right down to it, they got their own stack of patents (most of which were stolen from BSD and Xerox) they'll flaunt when competition gets too tough. Witness the silly obsession with the big circle button on their iPod.

[wtmusic]

121. Did someone else come up with the circle first? nt

[NashVegas]

88. Eh?

Apple opened its source code years ago for developers. There are plenty of open-source aps to go with Mac, you aren't forced to use Mac software.

[wtmusic]

90. Not exactly

Why am I paying $100 each time I upgrade my OS then, and have to click on about 20 little "Agree" screens describing the terms of Apple IP?

Just because Apple offers SDKs and assistance to developers doesn't mean their OS is open source.

[TrogL]

28. OK, so what other packages are involved?

I'm a developer on several Open Source projects.

[Occulus]

30. I take umbrage with this statement:

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer is also quoted in the article as saying Microsoft's open-source competitors need to "play by the same rules as the rest of the business."

"What's fair is fair," Ballmer told Fortune. "We live in a world where we honor, and support the honoring of, intellectual property."

Um, no, Mr. Ballsackmer. We do not have to play by the same rules. We are free to ourselves code any damn code we bloody well please. We are free to give that code away, for free, and there is nothing you can do to stop us.

Oh, I'd love to see linus be made illegal. The hacker shitstorm which would commence would be extremely gratifying.

Go ahead, Micro$oft. Go after linux. Go after the kernel. See how fucking far you get, asshole.

:rofl:

We will bury you. After you're in the ground, linux will. Still. Be. Free.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

My personal, heartfelt message to Bill Fucking Gates

[silverojo]

40. MY heartfelt message to Bill Gates and his ilk:

I use Linux, and an OLD version of Windows (Win98SE), because I have no intention of upgrading to XP, let alone Vista. Both of them infringe way too far on the rights of computer users, and they're bloatware, besides.

So I say to you, Micro$haft, Bill Gates, et. al.--

Fuck you ALL! Fuck your sleazy business practices! Fuck your buggy operating systems that crash if you look at them sideways! Fuck your service packs and your overpriced software and your shitty Internet Explorer and shittier Windows Media Player! Fuck your attempts to kill open source and freeware! Fuck your constant efforts to force people to buy a new OS and new computers every other year! Fuck your stealing ideas from Mac, then claiming others steal ideas from you--you've never had an original idea in your greedy lives! :mad:

Daphne08...does this sound anything like what your husband said? :evilgrin:

[Tesha]

70. Actually, you're not.

> We are free to ourselves code any damn code we bloody well please.

Actually, you're not. If your code, even code that you
invented and wrote from scratch, violates someone else's
patent, you have to license that patent from the original
inventor.

That's how patents work and the fact that we're talking
about software rather than steam engines changes nothing.
If you were to re-invent the compact fluorescent lightbulb,
you'd still owe royalties to whoever invented certain key
principles and techniques and holds the patent(s) on those.


> We are free to give that code away, for free, and there
> is nothing you can do to stop us.

And thousands of college kids were *CERTAIN* that they
could illegally download music and that there was "nothing
you can do to stop they were quite wrong, often to the tune of thousands
and thousands of dollars in back royalty payments.

Sorry, but IP laws exist and whether or not you think
they apply to you has *EXACTLY ZERO* bearing on whether
or not they apply to you.

Tesha

[ProudDad]

111. See my post #109 in this thread

Patents for software is FUCKED UP!

It stifles creativity.

[Tesha]

143. Doesn't matter; it's still the law and if you break it...

> Patents for software is FUCKED UP!

Only because prima donna software engineers think
they're something special, something unique in the
universe's immense creation.

But what you believe doesn't matter; patents are
still the law and if you break the law, there's
recourse that people will take against you.

Tesha

[NorthernSpy]

145. no, patents are not "laws"; they are temporary and revocable grants of exclusivity...

Microsoft certainly understands the distinction, even if you don't. That's why they refuse to tell us precisely which patents they're referring to. They know that we will seek -- and likely find -- grounds for invalidating many, most, or all of them.

The recent Supreme Court decision in KSR International Co. v Teleflex Inc. has helped our cause against patent trollery while weakening Microsoft's position. Microsoft knows that too.

Only because prima donna software engineers think
they're something special, something unique in the
universe's immense creation.

No. The problem is the legions of self-important fuckheads who manage to make some trivial alteration to a currently existing item or process and think that society owes them an exclusive ticket to riches on that basis. But as the SCOTUS reminded us, our patent system was never intended to grant exclusivity in cases of ordinary progress in the art. I'd imagine the KSR decision has many left such "inventors" crying in their beer.

[Tesha]

146. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

> no, patents are not "laws"; they are temporary and revocable grants of exclusivity...

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Of course patents aren't
laws and feel free to show me where I said they were.

But "Patent Law" refers to that rather-large body of *ACTUAL
LAW* that regulates how patents are granted and what rights
the patent then provides. This is actual law, the sort that
lawyers and judges adjudicate and the kind that will have
actual consequences on you if you break.

The consequences may be financial or they may rise to seeing
your ass thrown in the slammer if you're eggregious enough
in your vioations.

I'd *STRONGLY* suggest you consult an attorney who's skilled
in the practice of *PATENT LAW* before you go breaking said
laws.

Tesha

[NorthernSpy]

148. LOL!

You did say that patents are law -- not that patents are regulated via a body of law known as patent law. It was not clear to me whether you understood the distinction.

And this latest fulmination certainly didn't help your case:

But "Patent Law" refers to that rather-large body of *ACTUAL
LAW* that regulates how patents are granted and what rights
the patent then provides. This is actual law, the sort that
lawyers and judges adjudicate and the kind that will have
actual consequences on you if you break.

The consequences may be financial or they may rise to seeing
your ass thrown in the slammer if you're eggregious enough
in your vioations.

Har har, and thanks for playing! Patent infringement is not a criminal matter in the United States.

[Tesha]

149. Funny; I thought contempt of court could land you in jail.

You certainly seem to have contempt for our current
laws and legal process; I wouldn't act pro se if I
were you.

Tesha

[ProudDad]

150. Why, pray tell, are you so huffy about this? n/t

[Tesha]

151. I believe in Intellectual Property rights. The person I'm debating this with...

I believe in Intellectual Property rights. The person I'm debating this with
doesn't seem to.

Tesha

[Solon]

152. I believe in copyrights and patents, I'm a writer(freelance journalist), I love it...

But software patents are a whole different can of worms here. First, software is a series of algorithms, THAT'S IT, they are NOTHING else. Software already is protected, internationally, by copyright laws, why do they need patents? The problem is that software patents are new, so a LOT of the patents are generally just invalid for being either obvious or prior art. Amazon just lost its "one click shopping" patent recently, due to obviousness, they are appealing the decision.

Algorithms, which I stated already, are what software is, and its already illegal to patent equations, because it doesn't promote useful arts.

To give a simple example, I have an equation, x=y+z, I can't patent that, UNLESS I express it this way:

10 input y
20 input z
30 x=y+z
40 print x

Granted, my BASIC is rusty, but, to me, it seems stupid that I can patent an expression of a mathematical equation. Now, the expression of this equation is already protected by copyright, especially if I wanted to register it, I would say that that is enough protection for any software.

I also oppose the use of the term "intellectual property" simply because it is dishonest. For example, having a copyright isn't absolute, and there is flexibility, called "fair use" in the United States. I can take a copyrighted song, change some of the lyrics, and make a parody song out of it, Weird Al is famous for this, and that is perfectly legal, yet I can't do the same to your house, at least not without a court order. I don't even have to inform you that I made a parody of your copyrighted work.

I oppose downloading songs you didn't pay for, or weren't given away by the artists themselves, but I also oppose techniques that don't allow me to backup such copyrighted materials as I see fit, for usability or to make sure such materials aren't lost. Ripping a CD for backup purposes is perfectly legal, same for software, I don't see why so many people seem to think that this is somehow wrong.

[Solon]

154. Also, another note, until Microsoft lists the patents violated, and takes someone to court...

and the court rules against that person, no one who develops for open source or Linux is violating the law. I could claim that DU violates a patent against message boards, that doesn't mean its true. Actually, chances are DU does violate a patent or two that some big name corporation created for message board use, doesn't mean its legally enforceable.

[Daphne08]

35. I just walked into the bedroom and told my husband,

who is a Linux user, about this article.

I won't repeat what he said. :rofl:

[blogslut]

36. Just gotta give some love to Open Source

I bought a second-hand iMac and killed it within 24 hours. Yay me. I thought all was lost because I sure as hell wasn't going to pay $150.00 for Mac OS software just to repair a corrupted $75.00 machine.

Then I read about Ubuntu. I chose Kubuntu and got it installed like magic. Now, I'm Linux Open Source obsessed. I've tried Gentoo, Open Darwin, Edubuntu, Ubuntu and now I'm currently playing with Yellowdog. I think I may stick with Yellowdog. It likes my iMac best.

[harpboy_ak]

37. And there a too many bogus patents now

Software patents never should have been allowed; copyright protection should be sufficient.

That aside, someone like Micro$oft with lots of lawyers and money can outlawyer and outlast smaller defendants, and most give up because they feel overwhelmed. I'm willing to bet, however, that a good number of those patents can be invalidated for either prior art or obviousness.

[conspirator]

38. Good morning and F*UCK you microsoft nt

[Kolesar]

45. Apple Computer had patent/copyright claims against Microsoft a few years ago

Microsoft settled it by paying Apple Computer to do some development work. The two companies did a joint project. I cannot recall the exact details; I think it was about 5 years ago and may have led to Macintosh X operating system (Macintosh number ten?).

[onehandle]

47. You have most of the details and the real purpose wrong,

The deal did end patent disputes. Microsoft agreed to keep making Office and Internet Explorer for the Mac (stopped making IE by 2001 due to OSX's Safari).

Jobs brought in the NeXT OS and it was bought by Apple to develop OSX.

The real reason for the small investment by Microsoft was to help keep Apple independent and to keep the antitrust Clinton administration at bay. Microsoft wanted to keep the only "alternative" to Windows out there.

Of course as soon as Bush stole the election in 2000, Microsoft's troubles were over.

[Kolesar]

51. Ostensibly, Microsoft paid Apple for "work" and Apple withdrew their legal claims...eom

[ramapo]

54. Microsoft - the best thief of them all

First Gates stole DOS.

The best is Windows NT, father of what MS has today. Windows NT was a thinly veiled copy of Digital Equipment Corp's VMS operating system. If you wanted to understand NT, just read the VMS internals documentation. The file system, processes, security, user accounts, you name it. MS hired away from DEC one of the chief architects of VMS and he essentially just made VMS2. Not sure how MS got away with it. I guess they knew to change just enough to keep it legal.

[Nihil]

62. They've always had a powerful legal department for that reason.

(i.e., to stop M$ from being sued by the victims of their $M crimes).

> The best is Windows NT, father of what MS has today. Windows NT was a
> thinly veiled copy of Digital Equipment Corp's VMS operating system.
> If you wanted to understand NT, just read the VMS internals documentation.
> The file system, processes, security, user accounts, you name it. MS hired
> away from DEC one of the chief architects of VMS and he essentially just
> made VMS2. Not sure how MS got away with it. I guess they knew to change
> just enough to keep it legal.

Yep. Microsoft had (and still has) better lawyers, better marketers and
bigger wallets. DEC (bless 'em) only had first class technical people
so they were a sitting duck for predators.

[ramapo]

73. DEC was an amazing company

Both in what the company developed and their stupidity.

VMS was (is still?) in many ways the best O/S. Nobody has come close to duplicating a VMS cluster.
A MS cluster is a joke.

Altavista - early leader in search engines.

StorageWorks - first modular storage

DECnet - a networking legend

Alpha - beat the crap out of intel...they had to buy it after stealing the technology

But the company couldn't market a thing, had product wars within itself that were incredibly debilitating, cancelled Prism and lost Cutler, and failed on the desktop. Finally Palmer was brought in to break up the company. The company history is an amazing rise and fall...there was a book written about it a few years ago.

I worked there at the end of the glory years and was lucky enough to get out before being "downsized".

[Nihil]

76. Yep! Agree with both you and Tesha ...

... but I'm biased as I was also there (in the UK) 1986-1994 ... :hi:

[Tesha]

71. Microsoft got away with it...

> Not sure how MS got away with it. I guess they knew to change
> just enough to keep it legal.

Microsoft got away with it for two reasons:

o Digital pissed of Dave Cutler (the principal architect
of W/NT) by cancelling PRISM, the project he was leading
(essentially, that "VMS2" that you spoke of). They knew
it would cost them his services and they did it anyway.

o Soon after, Digital was headed by a fellow ("GQ" Bob
Palmer) who was deeply, deeply in bed with Microsoft.
He wouldn't have done *ANYTHING* to jeopardize DEC's
relationship with Redmondand he threw away a huge part
of DEC's successful internal infrastructure and replaced
it with disfunctional Microsoft shit.

Shortly thereafter, of course, Digital was dead (bought
by Compaq) and GQ Bob moved on to kill other companies.
But that's life here in American where the Good Old Boys
take care of each other at the expense of the worker bees.

Tesha

[ProudDad]

112. For someone like me who's been in the computer biz since 1964

That was a very strange day: "Digital was dead (bought by Compaq)"

DIGITAL BOUGHT BY COMPAQ!! The world turned upside down...

[Tesha]

144. It was a tragic day for a lot of people.

And a lot of us don't go one day without wishing
that DEC still existed; the world was a better
place for their existence.

Tesha

[EnviroBat]

61. I've had my first MAC for three days now...

I'm in love with it. I thought the learning curve would be difficult, but no. Everything is intuitive, and literal. The back space key is called a "Delete" key because well, that's what you're doing when you're backspacing right? Oddly enough, the ONLY advertised security risk to the system was the Microsoft Office for MAC trial version that shipped with the machine. Apparently the Excel application can leave the machine vulnerable to an attack on the systems memory. Hmmm. I had 0 problems getting the machine up and running, e-mail and internet access were working inside of 10 min. I've been living in the Microsoft nightmare for the past 15 years or so, and have never had the same ease of setup I've experienced with the MAC. Now I realize that nothing is Nirvana, and I may find quirks with the MAC someday, but the machine constantly invites the user to create and learn. I have no regrets about spending $2,800 for the machine and 3yr support, and the Wow factor has been a pleasant departure from the PC world of yesterday.

[wtmusic]

69. The quirks are few and far between

Good move :thumbsup:

[EnviroBat]

78. Yeah that would seem to be the case.

There are some differences you've got to get used to coming from the PC world, such as the little red dot doesn't really "kill" the application, and sometimes if you don't move downloaded applications to the Application folder they will be gone as soon as you unmount the installation. But knowing what I know about Unix, (from back in the day), the MAC OS is really logical, and intuitive. It hasn't allowed me to blow up anything so far, and the installed software manuals are some of the best I've ever read.

[sellitman]

116. Congrats

I'm a 2 month convert and feel just like you do. Almost like a cloud has been lifted from around my keyboard. I suggest getting to a Apple store and trying their $99 dollar a year help lessons. I am getting my kids up to speed on Garage band and they are loving it. My purchase was a iMac and now I am looking at a MacBook.

[silverojo]

135. I got the same ease and "Wow" factor with Linux, for free! n/t

[gravity]

72. Saying that there is copyright infringement is different than doing something about it

The problem is that it's going to be near impossible to actually enforce the violations if they are true given the nature of open source software.

I really just think that Microsoft is just making excuses.

[NorthernSpy]

89. this is about bogus patents, not copyright or authorship in ANY sense...

Sadly, a patent action can be pursued even if the defendant had NO access to the plaintiff's code, and therefore could not have copied anything. It's not about "copying" at all. It's about Microsoft holding reams of likely-invalid general patents, and using them to extort money from people who don't actually owe them a single friggin dime.

The fundamental problem is that our patent system is broken, in part because the Patent Office and the courts have failed to apply the non-obviousness test in a meaningful way, and also because they don't seem even to know how to search for prior art.

[blogslut]

110. here here

There's a company named Acacia Technologies. They went and bought a few old patents and now claim to own the rights to, get this - all methods of streaming content over the internet or a network. Acacia evens goes as far as to expect license fees from anyone that links to streaming content:

http://www.eff.org/patent/wanted/patent.php?p=acacia

The Patent process is broken indeed.

[jollyreaper2112]

124. unbelievable

Where do those whores live, 22 Acacia Avenue?

[Solon]

153. They already tried, they bankrolled SCO in SCO v. IBM...

Let's just say the case hasn't been going well for them, so they are trying a different tactic.

[Hugin]

74. Ah, now the innovation stifling results of monopoly rears it's ugly head...

This was warned about way back when Microsoft rode roughshod over the original
web browser's patents.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

77. I think it is funny... everything said here was said

about the release of Windows 95 too.

In those days, linux was around, but it was a bear to complile.

[fshrink]

83. The Second Law of Thermodynamics will take care of it.

In the mean time, there are enough holes to subsist.

[stormymonday]

87. Why not sue Charles Babbage and Ada Lovelace

while they are at it. What a crock of s**t.

[glitch]

128. Indeed. I have an asshole brother-in-law who goes out and patents ideas

that way if someone actually invents them they have to pay him for the patent. Needless to say, Republican. Patent law really needs some revision.

[damntexdem]

94. What same rules?

To be a big monster that crushes all that dare compete? To destroy anything better?

Maybe it's time to change the rules.

[mainegreen]

98. What, did Steve go out and get drunk with his SCO buddies?

Did he discover the 42 Linux patent violations while reverse engineering the kernel on a napkin using pretzels?

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

100. bye bye ms.. you are obsolete

[formercia]

118. They can't touch BSD UNIX

that's why I use FreeBSD.

They don't call it Free for nothing.


Steve, your tears are like rain. They water my tomatoes.

[Dark]

136. Why the hell would anyone WANT to copy Microsoft's code?

That's like actually wanting to pirate a scratchy, incomplete Toby Keith album off the internet.

[Solon]

138. This is about patents, not copyright...

Patents on software are extremely vague, so I don't doubt that Microsoft's claims are true, however, I also believe the patents they hold are worthless, legally and ethically.

The fact is that Microsoft holds patents on things like the FAT32 filesystem, how to use a cursor with a mouse, and other extremely vague patents, many, like the latter patent I mentioned, isn't valid in court because of prior art, X-Windows, Xerox systems, and Apple all independently invented the cursor, and how it moves, throughout the late 70s to mid 80s. And that is just one example.

[Kablooie]

156. Could Microsoft have submitted patents after a feature in Linux is released?

I assume many features in Linux weren't patented.

Could Microsoft have had it's people looking for new Linux features and when the find one, patent it so they can sue someone later?

Is this legal?

[Solon]

157. Good question...

The problem is that, most OS fundamentals, i.e. the Linux kernel, were developed, as concepts, in the 1960s and 70s, so they were never patented, software patents are endemic of the 1990s, by then, most concepts, from GUI interfaces to filesystem fundamentals were all already well developed, even network protocols and things related to the Internet were already developed by then. Since then, most software patents fall under refinements of previous systems, the problem is that the USPTO doesn't really research all these patents, and rarely review them, they simply don't have the manpower.

The problem is that refinements usually end up falling under two broad categories, obvious invention or prior art. An obvious invention would be Amazon.com's "one click shopping" patent, an example of prior art would be Microsoft's lasso selection technique for GUI interfaces(drawing a box around Icons).

Patent number 7,218,330, Link here

The problem is that such patents are legal, until challenged in court. Part of the problem is that companies like Microsoft, or IBM, don't want them to be challenged in court. IBM released all its patents to be used in open source projects, and invested millions to beat back Microsoft's shadow, SCO, when they sued over copyright infringement and contract breaking. The lawsuit is called SCO v. IBM, and let's just say that SCO isn't exactly on the winning side.

So now Microsoft isn't doing this for legal reasons, but to spread FUD and to make sure companies do not adopt Linux, through fear that Microsoft would take them to court. The most Microsoft will do is maybe file a suit against companies that cannot afford to defend such suits, and will settle instead, so that the patents themselves will never be challenged on their legal merits. In some circles, you would call this extortion.