Voters unhappy with Bush and Congress (24% - 11%)

[Xipe Totec]

Source: Reuters

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Deepening unhappiness with President George W. Bush and the U.S. Congress soured the mood of Americans and sent Bush's approval rating to another record low this month, according to a Reuters/Zogby poll released on Wednesday.

The Reuters/Zogby Index, which measures the mood of the country, also fell from 98.8 to 96 -- the second consecutive month it has dropped. The number of Americans who believe the country is on the wrong track jumped four points to 66 percent.

Bush's job approval rating fell to 24 percent from last month's record low for a Zogby poll of 29 percent. A paltry 11 percent gave Congress a positive grade, tying last month's record low.

"Voter turnout could still be high next year, but the mood has turned against incumbents and into a 'throw the bums out' mindset," Zogby said.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071017/pl_nm/usa_politics_poll_dc_1

---

Congress needs to wake up and smell the tar and feathers.

[bdamomma]

1. Congress better wake up, they can no longer ignore us.

that count will be going lower, and apparently * does not give a fcuk about it, but again, he puts us on ignore all the time.

this is totally sick, we have jerk sitting in the WH with shitty ratings and the Congress still lacks the will to throw this man and his cabal out. Something is going on, wiretapping the Congress perhaps?

[pat_k]

19. Impeachophobia. . .

. . .we don't need to know the cause to seek to "cure." We don't need to figure out "what's going on" to diagnose their affliction and seek to intervene. And their's is a fairly simple affliction to diagnose. It is characteristized by a set of remarkably predicable, and dysfunctional, reactions to any challenge to Pelosi's "off the table" edict -- i.e., they blather a standard set of "reasons" (rationalizations/excuses) they can't defend.

The "symptoms" of the affliction point to a potentially effective intervention -- i.e., get in theeir faces and directly challenge the rationalizations.

Having a label to hang the diagnosis on can be very useful. I happen to like "impeachophobia."

From http://journals.democraticunderground.com/pat_k/23">Impeachophobia:

. . .

Although they do not meet all the criteria for a formal diagnosis of phobia (e.g., they don't "recognize that the fear is excessive or unreasonable"), the label "impeachophobia" is a good one because it captures the irrational avoidance at the heart of the affliction (i.e., "Marked and persistent fear that is excessive or unreasonable, cued by the presence or anticipation of a specific object or situation")

Because "phobia" is a well-known term, the label has the benefit of immediately shifting expections. Because we expect irrational avoidance from an "impeachophobe," we aren't surprised, frustrated, or confused when we encounter it, and thus can respond more effectively.

Rationalizations and self-defeating prophesies

Impeachophobes have adopted effective means of shutting out and purging information that contradicts their conviction that impeachment can't, won't, or shouldn't happen. The rationalizations they invoke both justify and reinforce their conviction. Although it sometimes seems like they have an endless supply of rationalizations, they actually rely on relatively few. The most common are:

* "We'll get Cheney"
* "The public will rise against us"
* "We'll lose the White House"
* "Impeachment will tear the nation apart"
* "We don't have the votes to remove"
* "It would be a futile waste"
* "We need to focus on stopping the war"
* "Impeachment is a distraction"
* "The public is not behind it"
* "Now is not the 'right' time; maybe later"
* "We must investigate first"
* "It will take too long"
* "It's not gonna happen because it's not gonna happen"

. . .

There is a Cure! -- Turning Impeachophobes into Impeachers

Whatever position or office -- member of the press, Member of Congress, staffer, activist, citizen -- impeachophobes are all just people and people can be reached. We know impeachophobia can be cured because it is being cured. We are seeing and rank and file Democrats "out here" conquer impeachophobia and become "impeachers" everyday. Simply being exposed to impeachment advocates has been enough for some. Others require more intensive "intervention.". . .

[GuvWurld]

35. The unspoken "reasons" (rationalizations/excuses) of the impeachophobe

he will bomb Iran (or Los Angeles)
he will declare martial law
he will call off the already phony elections (though actually dictators like to keep show elections going for the appearance (illusion) of democracy

The government is paralyzed (knobs ripped off all self-correcting mechanisms) because it is complicit to the core (another unspoken excuse of the impeachophobe is the fear illegal surveillance could reveal their own wrongdoing). Is there any single problem we can expect the federal government to solve for us? Generally speaking I would say no. This includes ridding us of a tyrant, restoring the Constitution and the rule of law.

I fear the exact amount of energy directly spent trying to influence the federal government is exactly the same amount of power We The People are surrendering. They are content to take our freedoms and liberties but we don't have to give them our power. Peaceful revolution is long overdue and it begins with withdrawing and withholding our consent and cooperation. Obviously this is easier said than done. Nonetheless, this is the narrative I think we should advance rather than an all or nothing move (impeachment, no matter how obviously justified) that doesn't even allow We The People to make the ultimate determination of how it plays out (the epitome of giving our power away).

Peace.

On edit: You could read this "between the lines" above but I wanted to say explicitly that many members of Congress are just plain scared like the rest of us about what is happening and what may happen.

Edit 2: DU mysteriously truncated my subject line when I made the first edit. It is restored.

[atreides1]

2. But Nancy Said

That they are the leaders!!!! I guess this poll proves that, congress is leading Bush in low job approval ratings!

[Jackpine Radical]

6. If we'd only give up on all those loony liberal ideas

about health care and ending the war and whatnot, and get on board with Steny and Rahm, it would all be better.

[pat_k]

21. Actually, as long as everything is hostgage to bushncheney. . .

. . .we do need to forget about heathcare and ending the war and focus 100% on making impeachment and removal a reality. Win or lose, it is the only fight worth fighting.

They do not swear an oath to "support and defend the homeland" or "the USA" or "America" or "the nation." They swear to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. Without the Constitution -- our common contract, amended and entrusted to us to protect and perfect -- we are nothing. When our common contract is broken, there is no true America to "support and defend."

Their oath is not an oath to win; it is an oath to fight -- to "support and defend." Impeachment is the weapon we gave them to enforce the Constitution when constitut8ional officers in the executive or judiciary violate the terms. Their refusal to take up that weapon and fight is a violation of their oath.

The polls tell us that vast majority of the electorate -- Republicans included -- are angry at bushncheney. And more Americans are waking up to the horror of our national predicament every day. All that anger is seeking an outlet.

Instead of tapping into the passion and energy, the Democrats are doing everything in their power to SUPPRESS IT. The endless declarations of powerlessness raining down from our "leaders" are pushing angry Americans into helpless silence and apathy. As the Democratic Party once again confirms the "weak Dem" image, those who haven't been silenced are finding that their anger at bushncheney is fast being matched by disdain for Democrats.

If the Congressional leadership stood up and declared to the American people "WE HAVE THE POWER TO STOP THIS. We can impeach and remove them! And YOU can make it happen!" it would be body blow to the fascists. Victory is not just possible, there are compelling reasons to conclude http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3604951&mesg_id=3607151">it is probable. But even if a vote on a bill of impeachment lost in the House or Senate, the fight itself gives Americans who are angry at Bush a way to express their anger. Instead of alienating and earning the disdain of the public, the Party would be engaging them. And each person engaged is more likely to stay in the fight and make it possible for us to win future victories against the fascists.

The way to truly "accomplish things for the American people" is to ENGAGE the American people in accomplishing things for themselves.

If the leadership takes up the fight to remove bushncheney from office, they wouldn't just be doing the right thing -- fulfilling their oath; fighting to rescue the Constitution; strengthening our democracy by engaging more of the electorate -- they'd be doing the WINNING thing. The entire Party would reap the political benefits that go with such demonstrations of fortitude and commitment to principle.

The heartbreak of their failure to fight for the Constitution is made even more unbearable (if that's possible) by the fact that their failure is hurting, not helping, their chances of electoral victory.

[Jackpine Radical]

37. Emotionally I'm with you 100%; intellectually, maybe only 75%, with my reservations

due entirely to the possibility of an acquittal in the Senate, and the absolutely predictable spinning of acquittal into vindication by the accursed M$M.

As for the "liberal agenda," I'm really talking about the campaign. No, nothing will happen until 2009, but I'd like to see someone besides Kucinich pushing for causes such as universal health care and ASAP withdrawal.

[pat_k]

57. Actually, I suspect it's the other way around. . .

. . .that the reservations are grounded in emotion -- a gut level fear that has it's roots in http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2524663&mesg_id=2525727">battered Democrats syndrome.

The syndrome is pervasive. It is at the heart of impeachophobia. It has been driving the self-destructive behavior of our leaders for years -- perhaps even decades.

If my suspicion is right, you aren't alone. (And if your "reservations" aren't enough to immobilize, you may be "recovered" -- just dealing with some residual effects.)

Battered Democrats syndrome isn't easily overcome. But overcome it we must if we are to become effective agents of change. Like a battered spouse, we need to realize that our obsession with what "they" will do gives them power over us. We need to give up the notion that we can control through appeasement. The reality is that they are going to "beat" us whatever we do.

We need to stop asking "What will they do if we do X." The question we need to ask is "What means are available to STOP them?" For a battered spouse, the answer to that question is obvious. Battering is against the law. They can enlist the authorities. Seek a restraining order. Seek to prosecute and punish. For our battered nation, the only thing capable of stopping them is to seek removal from office through impeachment. And for true justice to be done, the defensive act of impeachment must be followed by turning them over to the Hague.

Like a battered spouse, as long as we make excuses for inaction we feed our shame and sense of powerlessness. The moment we commit to doing the right thing we are transformed. Shame becomes self-respect. It's a powerful force. It strengthens us -- makes us more able to recover from loss and keep fighting.

The fight to impeach and remove is not really about "them" at all. It's about us. It's about fighting to win back our self-respect as Americans.

If there are too many fascist minions in the Senate to remove Bush and Cheney, so be it. To shift to another analogy -- if a lynch mob openly, even proudly, terrorizes and murders, a racist jury may acquit, but that cannot change the reality that is out there for all to see. Bullies may silence people of conscience. Others may be silenced by the silence, believing themselves to be alone. But all it takes to give voice to the voiceless and open the floodgates of hope and action is for someone to speak out and declare "You are NOT alone. We can Do Something about this!" (And the closer that person is to the levers of power required to do the "something," the more powerful the response.)

The true authorities -- the people -- always have the power and the means to remedy institutional failure, whether the failure is subversion by racists on a jury or subversion by fascists in Congress. (e.g., If the defensive attempt to remove the bushncheney from office fails; if a criminal prosecution fails to exact the punishment deserved, we could still confront the truth as a nation through civil action, congressional resolution, or by some other creative means.)

The fear of failure in the Senate is grounded in the fear that, when called on to object, a majority of our fellow citizens will balk and willingly allow "government of the people, by the people, for the people," to "perish from this earth" I've concluded that the likelihood of that is almost nil, but even if that fear is confirmed, isn't it better to impeach and call on our leaders and our fellow citizens to declare themselves for American Principle or Fascist Principle? Isn't it better to know what we are actually up against? Doesn't our belief in democracy demand that we put our trust in the electorate? Isn't it better to fight and lose than to allow fear to stop us -- and thereby lose by default?

When we go after the BHAGs (big hairy audacious goals) there are always victories along the way. Each victory builds confidence. Like magic, the confidence gained allows us to pursue OUR goals. (The best defense is a good offense.) Instead of legitimizing intolerable and absurd notions like "unitary authoritarian power" by defending and debating the "question," we are building the confidence to reject it outright, do what we must to purge those who subscribe to the notion from positions of power so we can get on with our own agenda.

In the fight for impeachment, more and more people are gaining the confidence to confront the impeachophobes -- the battered Democrats we find both inside and outside the beltway.

Reality is getting through. The increasing annoyance with impeachment advocates we are hearing from the folks on the Hill is a good sign ("First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Gandhi.) We hear people like Rep. Jane Harman say things like "What‘s broken is the view of executive power that some hold in the administration. They claim it trumps all laws and our Constitution. And I can‘t believe that anyone around here would be so short-sighted as to buy that" (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20993592/">Countdown, 9-25-07).

When somebody realizes that "nobody can deny the truth of X" it's a short hop to the conclusion that the blather coming from the deniers of "X" won't stand up to unequivocal condemnation/rejection for long. Once that point is reached, there can be no fear of losing. We're dealing with a one-way process. Once a person "gets it" there is no going back. The ranks of those who see through the lies can only grow. Sooner or later we -- and the truth -- win, but only if enough of us aren't afraid to get our there and unequivocally say "Not in Our America!" (And as long as bushnchcney hold power, impeachment is the ONLY unequivocal condemnation/rejection.)

Sure, maybe there are too many "http://journals.democraticunderground.com/pat_k/4">belief people" or http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=573908&mesg_id=577445">authoritarian personalities who buy the fascist fantasies to remove bushncheney, but that can't end the battle to rescue our Constitution.

[Jackpine Radical]

58. Thanks for that perspective.

You may very well be right in terms of my attributional reversal of emotional and cognitive bases for my conflicting stances. I certainly derstand what you mean by Battered Democrat Syndrome. However, I think there may also be something else going on, at least among our leadership. I think many of them have sold out to the corporate and wealthy interests, and heir apparent cowardice is merely a matter of fulfilling their obligations to their owners.

[aquart]

18. Is that the same as "deciders"?

[creeksneakers2]

26. The question is why the approval numbers are low

I haven't seen any polls that tie public desire for impeachment to low Congressional approval ratings. It would be interesting if somebody polled to find out what is behind the public disapproval. From the article that this thread was based on:

There is a real question among Americans now about how relevant this government is to them," pollster John Zogby said. "They tell us they want action on health care, education, the war and immigration, but they don't believe they are going to get it."

In this case, Zogby is only giving anecdotal information, so there's no proof impeachment isn't what Americans want most. Zogby's unscientific take does suggest that Americans are more interested in tangible benefits and less interested in conflict between the parties,like impeachment.

Pelosi claims the same as Zogby. Impeachment isn't high on the list of American concerns.

[sabra]

3. Bush is going for the record low for a president - wasn't Nixon 23% & Truman 22%?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

17. Yes.

One more point and he ties Nixon. Two more and he ties Truman.

I expect him to set a new all time low before he leaves office.

[grahamhgreen]

4. If the Dems think they will sweep the elections in '08 with these low approval numbers...

they are kidding themselves. They had better get us out of Iraq tomorrow, and start prosecuting this administration for any crimes they have committed, instead of responding to right-wing media talking points. I'm sure Rove couldn't be happier.

[Tempest]

7. Look behind the headlines

In every poll Democrats in Congress are polling double digits higher than Repugs in approval rating.

And local polls for upcoming races in swing districts have Democratic candidates way ahead of the Repug candidates.

[grahamhgreen]

11. Look behind the numbers

People are pissed, people are dying, and the Dems are playing politics, responding to talking points, passing a FISA law that lets the president off the hook for his ADMITTED 30 felony violations, and giving him hundreds of billions of dollars for his corporate friends to steal while killing people in Iraq.

[Tempest]

13. Sure, we're pissed at the Democrats

It doesn't mean we're going to throw the baby out with the bath water.

That's what the righting wants everyone to think.

[grahamhgreen]

15. And the Dems , who have so little respect for their base that they refuse to take on the big issues.

Eventually, the party will splinter..., well it's already splintering - look at the move-on scenario.

[Yael]

5. Why are the critters ignoring this?

11%? 11%? You would think that one of them would get their heads out of the sand trap and say, "what can we do to change this?"

I have a list -- if any of them are interested in reading it...

I am going to write all 3 of them today and point this out. Not that it will do any good, but I will feel better.

[Yael]

8. Email sent:

Rep. <name>,

In the news today, I see that congress is breaking records again for low approval ratings. On behalf of We The People, congrats to you and your colleagues on maintaining your 11% approval rating.

Link to story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071017/pl_nm/usa_politics_poll_dc_1

Here are some suggestions that may help:

1. Get an exit strategy in the works for this insane war

2. Override the S-CHIP veto.

3. Go for broke and launch a debate on HR676

Best wishes,



(Same to the senators, less the reference to 676)

[Le Taz Hot]

9. As low as the polls are for Congress,

ironically, if you ask most people within a district if they are happy with THEIR Congresscritter, the vast majority of the time they will answer, "yes." Go figure.

[emmadoggy]

10. One question...

With all those totally crappy numbers, how the hell is it that the "number of Americans who believe the country is on the wrong track" is ONLY 66%??? :wtf: Shouldn't it be more like 75% or more?? Makes no sense to me.

Only 24% approve of Bush and 11% approve of Congress but close to 33% still think we are on the right track?? What am I missing?

[Mist]

12. The Democratic Congress seems to think that because *'s numbers are

higher than theirs, they therefore need to skew ever-rightward to get up to 24%. Rather than the truth, which is they're not doing nearly enough to be a truly Democratic Congress. They need to get over their pathological fear of putting impeachment back on the table.

[grahamhgreen]

14. Amen!

[Doctor_J]

16. Well if Congress would PUT SOME DISTANCE BETWEEN THEMSELVES AND STUPID,

they might pull away.

[Rageneau]

20. We need to support Primary challengers to all blue dog Dems.

Like the two from my state, who at times are both DINOs.

I cannot support a pubbie, but I can work to support a challenger, REAL democrat who will be part of the solutioon, not the problem.

[Edith Ann]

22. 60 Votes

W. began to use the Veto when the Dems. took over congress. Without 60 votes to override the veto the republicans are still in charge. Look at S-Chip. 61% of the population want it to pass. The republicans are digging a deep hole and there is always one who will look up and ask for a new -shovel. Some right to lifers they are.

[Le Taz Hot]

25. This charge has been refuted

so many times I can't believe someone is still claiming it with a straight face. See: Congressional Committees, Agendas, coming out of Committee and Fillabuster. In that order.

[Edith Ann]

34. Refuted

Good!! That means S-chip will pass tomorrow and we will be out of Iraq by Friday.

[Le Taz Hot]

43. That's assuming the pro-corporate Democrats

had a backbone. They don't. They're playing for the same side and its not ours.

[liberalpragmatist]

49. The Dems near unanimously support SCHIP

And there may be a veto override.

[Doctor_J]

28. Make him veto

Stop bad bills from coming out of committee. Make the wingers go on the record with their votes to let children die. And make a lot of noise when they do it.

[Edith Ann]

36. veto

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[UGADUer]

42. Newt Gingrich never had 2/3 of the vote vs. Clinton

He just knew how to play hardball and hit him where it hurts. It's called playing hardball and if scum like Gingrich can do it...

[OneBlueSky]

23. Bush is outpolling Congress by 13% . . . what does that tell you, Nancy? . . .

initiate impeachment hearings and watch your ratings triple (or better) overnight . . .

cut off funding for the ILLEGAL war and watch them soar . . .

continue to do nothing and you'll end up in single digits real soon . . .

[Edith Ann]

24. 60 votes

YOU NEED 60 VOTES TO OVERRIDE A VETO. SHE CAN'T STOP THEM. THEY ARE STILL IN CHARGE. This isn't a do nothing congress, it is an obstructionist congress. The Republicans are responsible for this. 61% of the American people want S-Chip. The republicans will stop it. I know,I know, and a few Blue Dogs. But Oklahoma's blue dog is going to vote for it this time. Dan Boren.

[armodem08]

52. It's actually even worse than that.

We need 67 votes in the Senate to override a veto, or convict after impeachment. The 60 vote threshold is needed for overcoming a cloture vote (otherwise known as a filibuster).

[sofa king]

27. There's the magic number.

John Dean, repeating the observations of the academic community, suggests that 23% of the American public is comprised of "over the cliff" authoritarians who will support this or virtually any other aspiring dictator.

Statistical uncertainty being what it is we can safely assume that those are the only supporters the President has left. His precious Republican Guard.

Send 'em over the cliff, Georgie Boy. Do it for Merka.

[Vinca]

29. And to think we were dancing in the streets after the last election.

If the Democrats in Congress would do what they were elected to do, the approval number would go up to at least 50%. They've managed to piss off Republicans, Independents, Democrats and everyone in between.

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. 11% for Congress!

Now, you and I know that it's the Republicans and blue dogs that are creating that unhappiness. But Nancy Pelosi is considered a Liberal, so guess what the next spin is: Liberals are the problem in Congress.

[Xipe Totec]

31. It's incumbents that are the problem

They have gotten too comfortable with each other.

Not only do we need to get rid of the Republicans, we also need to send better Democrats.

And the primaries are just around the corner...

[The Backlash Cometh]

32. We need to educate the public to understand that blue dogs are not the

part of the Democratic party that will bring change to this country, and those numbers very definitely suggest that this country wants change.

[superconnected]

33. Bingo! We need to send up people who support us.

the Hillarys and Pelosi's have to go. Then we will have the change we need.

[Flabbergasted]

38. kick

[Solar_Power]

39. 11%

That must be an all-time low.

[Seabiscuit]

40. Who are these idiots that give * and Congress a thumbs up???

[ellisonz]

53. Raises hand.

Maybe we just understand that all things considered the slim Democratic majority has done what can be done?

[Seabiscuit]

54. Yeah, I suppose if all you've got is a huge rubber stamp to keep funding this war,

you may as well just keep using it, eh? :sarcasm:

How about just tossing the rubber stamp and not giving * any more spending bills at all, as Kucinich has been suggesting all along?

[ellisonz]

55. And how many letters have you written this week?

DK is a fringe of political opinon. And by the way, if I recall the polls correctly defunding the war would lose us Congress and the White House in 2008. Real smart.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Seabiscuit]

62. So here's a guy who falsely claims someone else is whining and then

runs whining to mommy to get my responses deleted.

[UGADUer]

41. Party beauracrats on both sides try to deny this

Young Dem club here won't admit there's a single thing wrong with the Congress. Average people don't see it that way.

[codjh9]

44. Voters Unhappy With Bush and Congress

Source: Reuters and Yahoo

Bush's job approval rating fell to 24 percent from last month's record low for a Zogby poll of 29 percent.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071017/ts_nm/usa_politics_poll_dc

---

I'm very pleased that it's down to 24%, but I have 2 questions: 1) why did it take so long to get this low, and 2) why isn't it 0%? My mother asked this almost every day in her last year or so. (Yes, I know, the brainwashed will never change their minds, but still, it's amazing).

[cliss]

45. I think it's lower

but I'll take it. It's probably more like 4% approval rating for BeelzeBush.

[libodem]

46. Wait until the gas prices start to soar

He'll be at zero.

[grahamhgreen]

48. What will the price of gas be if we invade iran?

[Xipe Totec]

50. His popularity is already expressed in imaginary numbers nt

[joshcryer]

47. self delete

nevermind, the thing I was commenting on was essentially a reflection of the gallup numbers posted yesterday

[depakid]

51. Cowardice and complicity are rated lower than corruption

and ineptitude.

Curious, but not at all surprising.

[lovuian]

56. this government is not FOR the US people

this government is for the NWO

[gulliver]

60. "Thank you! Oh thank you so much Dem base"

Love,

George W. Bush

[IndianaGreen]

61. The Democratic Congress was elected to END the WAR!

They have been as much a failure as Brownie was in New Orleans.

[BenDavid]

63. I fault the Democrats in both Houses for not

getting out in front of whatever bill they were trying to bring to the floor and explaining to the people what the bill represents and how it would be better for Americans. Also in the debate about the withdrawal of troops the Dem leadership should have be in front of the cameras explaining the bill and explaining why it would not pass...Cloture, cloture...Hell how many Americans know this is a procedure in the Senate and one has to have 60 votes to get it to a vote......Many other bills the Dems should have brought forward to the people and then afterwards if defeated in the Senate by a procedural vote then explain it...The Dems in the House should never have a bill brought to the floor and have it defeated while holding the majority.....This is what they need to do as the year comes to an end and especially next year as it is the election all over again, and we have to hold both houses if the dems are going to do a lot of things the american people want....It tis up to you Dems.....

Ben David