JAMES DAVIS IS DEAD

[zls44]

Bloomberg just confirmed it, reported on MSNBC, Brooklyn Rep. James Davis, Democrat, former NYPD, spoke out against police brutality, has died in the shooting.

[qanda]

1. Very sad...

My thoughts and prayers are with his family.

[zls44]

2. DISGUSTING

MSNBC just followed the ambulance to the hospital.


They showed Davis. In his full suit. Being wheeled into the hoptial through traffic.

He was STILL holding onto a file folder, over his chest injuries.

A committed man until the very end.

[zls44]

3. Here's a link

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/07/23/ny.shooting/index.html

[el_gato]

4. any word on who

did the shooting?

cube rat here.

[goobergunch]

21. The AP is as vague as possible

"Another person was wounded. It was unclear if it was the gunman."

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CITY_HALL_GUNFIRE?SITE=PAPHQ&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Devils Advocate NZ]

5. He spoke out against police brutality? Hmmm....

I guess that explains how a man with a gun got into City Hall huh?

[zls44]

9. It was a male

Wearing a CREAM colored suit, not the original claim of a blue suit.

THAT HELPS A LOT, BLOOMBERG.

NO S*IT THERE WAS A BREAKDOWN! YOU F*CKING THINK!?!?!?!?!?

This sicko was talking to him, and shot him point blank in the chest.

And then all hell broke loose.

The other victim is near death, btw.

[liberalhistorian]

10. And your point is???????????

n/t

[Mithras61]

24. Re: Getting guns past metal detectors

There are several manufacturers who currently make ABS Plastic firearms that won't be detected by metal detectors. The hard part would be getting the bullets past them, but if you don't use jacketed bullets, and since bullets are usually lead, they may not set off the magnetic type detectors at all.

These are the firearms used by many Air Marshalls so that they don't have to deal with the security folks having a cow when they come through the screening at the airports, so it is likely that they really do not set the detectors off.

And yes, these are available in retail gun shops (not to mention through mail order).

[kubi]

25. More steel then plastic

Glock's, Kahr, H&K pistols might have plastic frames, the slides, barrels among other internal parts are made out of steel. 90% of the weight of these pistols are steel, you can not sneak them through a metal detecter. No this was a break down in security.

[Mithras61]

29. The ones I'm referring to...

are almost completely plastic. The only part of these disposable guns that is metal is the firing pin and the springs. Everything else is plastic (including the chanmber... use 'em one time & replace 'em).

[kubi]

41. I would like to know of these brands

I'am an genuine gun nut and never heard of them. I have worked in gun shops and never have heard of them. I will tell you what the real problem is, first of all I was a Army MP for 4 years, an AF Security Policeman for 26 years and private security for 5 years now. It never fails no matter where, they want a building secure but hey we cant mess with the topman, his buddies, the press or whoever, guess what you have, a breakdown in security. I would bet dollars to dohnuts this is what happened today. Either everybody gets checked or there is no use in having security at the door.

[kubi]

54. And it turns out I'am right

[Character Assassin]

32. Let's get our facts straight first

There are several manufacturers who currently make ABS Plastic firearms that won't be detected by metal detectors.

Please name these manfacturers.

The hard part would be getting the bullets past them, but if you don't use jacketed bullets, and since bullets are usually lead, they may not set off the magnetic type detectors at all.

Non-jacketed bullets? Do you have an example of this?

These are the firearms used by many Air Marshalls so that they don't have to deal with the security folks having a cow when they come through the screening at the airports, so it is likely that they really do not set the detectors off.

Where are you getting this? The standard issue sidearm for federal sky marshalls is the 9×19mm SIG-Sauer P228 since 1992.

And yes, these are available in retail gun shops (not to mention through mail order).

Please name them.

[NickB79]

45. Mail order?

You haven't been able to order a gun through the mail since the Gun Control Act of 1968! Only licensed dealers can order a gun through the mail, and they must then perform background checks on whoever buys it.

BTW, I just heard on the news that the Mr. Davis escorted the man into the building and bypassed the metal detector! Weird thing to do, and extremely stupid.

[leanings]

49. Whoa.

You just totally made all of that up.

[undergroundrailroad]

6. This is horrific in my mind and heart.

TO CONFIRM: Brooklyn NY, Councilman, James Davis has been killed.


Councilman Killed in City Hall Shooting: Police in Riot Gear Shut Down Lower Manhattan for Massive Search

(Lower Manhattan-AP, July 23, 2003) — A gunman opened fire today at City Hall, killing City Councilman James Davis. He was shot twice in the chest. At least one other person was shot. The shooter has not been caught, and police have put out a bulletin for all officers to be looking for the suspect: A light-skinned black man in a dark blue suit and a light blue shirt.

The shooter has not been caught, and the search for him is on. Police have put out an alert to all officers in the city that their suspect is a light skinned black man with a dark blue suit and a light blue shirt. They've shut down much of Lower Manhattan to try to find their suspect.

The ten shots, fired shortly after 2:00 p.m., sent reporters in the press room diving for cover beneath their desks. Loud screaming echoed through City Hall as the gunfire began. It reportedly lasted for about three minutes. Soon after, Newscopter 7 watched as two people were taken out on stretchers and taken to NYU Downtown Hospital.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/wabc_072303_cityhallshots.html

[Rose Siding]

16. Here is the wonderful page from your other post

The site must be swamped, so I copied your post for the good information about this remarkable man.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=printer_friendly&forum=102&topic_id=30231&mesg_id=30265

[JHB]

7. Basic info on James Davis...

... and his district can be found at:
http://www.gothamgazette.com/searchlight/dist35.shtml

[MidwestTransplant]

8. How does an armed guy get into City Hall, shoot a bunch of people

then escape?

I used to live right near there and there were always tons of cops around the area. Especially when the Mayor was around.

[zls44]

12. Conflicting Reports

One of the men in the chamber said it was a man in a CREAM colord suit.


All of lower manhattan has been shut down.

The Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges, the FDR Drive, and the subways.

[prolesunited]

15. Here's my tinfoil hat theory

If he had railed against police brutality, perhaps it was a NYC police officer, past or present, who did the shooting. He would have known the security loopholes and how to get a gun in. It also might be why he was able to escape, because he knew the procedures that would be enacted and how to circumvent them.

[Blitz]

31. James Davis was a former police officer

But nice of you to take this opportunity to throw a smear in the direction of the New York Police Department.

For those who haven't heard, the speculation is that the suspect was a guest of Davis or another council member and therefore got to bypass the metal detectors (this is regularly done in some places where the guards recognize people or think they recognize them ... I know of one specifically but don't want to give any crazy people ideas). There is also widespread speculation that the shooter was a political opponent of Davis.

[prolesunited]

39. I think you misread my post

I don't think my post was a smear of the NYPD at all. Please point out to me where I smeared them with a wide brush or was disrespectful. I was just speculating on motive and opportunity.

All I was trying to say is that perhaps someone -- one person -- was the subject of an investigation and was retaliating, kind of like when a worker singles out a boss or colleague who they thought had wronged them.

[Blitz]

43. If I misunderstood you, I apologize

I am a bit sensitive about people taking gratuitous pot shots at the NYPD or police in general and this is a sensitive time. It is altogether possible that the killer was a police officer ... of course it could also have been a disgruntled member of the Knicks. We'll know soon enough, so maybe we (and I include myself in this) would all be well served to eschew blind speculation for a little while.

[prolesunited]

48. No worries

Peace
:hippie:

[cjbuchanan]

11. Sad news

Have they said who the second person they took to the hospital is?

[DEMActivist]

17. Staff aide to Davis

No name being reported.

[goobergunch]

13. very sad

I'm not familiar with James Davis, but from the data posted he seemed like a good guy. ;(

[Mithras61]

14. Must be a "hate" crime...

I bet the shooter "hated" James Davis... :crazy:

Sorry, folks... I just had to say it. Serously, though, I bet that when they find the shooter and find out the "why" of it, they'll discover that the shooter disagreed with Mr. Davis' politics.

[zls44]

20. Yup

Was it a right-wing gun-nut who did this? Another one whose fight against government "having too much control" has killed a great person? Was it a former NYPD colleague who felt betrayed?

I think it HAS to have been a former cop, simply because of the ability to get a gun in the building.

[lightbulb]

22. San Francisco, 1978

This is giving me horrible flashbacks...

http://www.mistersf.com/notorious/notwhiteindex.htm

[Character Assassin]

34. I was 11 years old and in the city when it happened

Just visiting for the day with my mother. It was utter pandemonium. I can only imagine what the scene in NYC must be like.

[noiretextatique]

55. was thinking the same thing

i was in college in so cal at the the time, but i remember how horrible and shocking it was. hopefully, this killer didn't eat any twinkies.

[EOTE]

23. If that's a snipe against hate crimes legislation...

it's not a very good one. If a white man kills a black man or vice versa, that does not make the crime a hate crime. A hate crime is a crime that is not merely directed against the victim, but against the victim's race/ethnicity/religion/creed/sexual orientation etc. Kind of like the difference between putting up a sign on someone's lawn that says "Mr. Doe is an asshole" and burning a cross on someone's lawn. Hate crimes are not regular crimes and should be treated so.

[Mithras61]

26. It most definitely wasn't a jibe at Hate Crime legislation...

It was an attempt (admittedly feeble) to inject a little humor into a very tragic situation.

It was also intended to address some of the people who immediately holler "hate crime" any time a black man is killed, without looking into the circumstances of who and why.

Hate crime legislation is something that is necessary because of people like those who killed James Byrd by dragging him with a chain behiond a pickup truck because he was black, or some of the people who burn predominantly black churches because they are predominantly black (or muslim or arabic or whatever). I really don't think that murder charges are adequate in such circumstances to address the larger issues involved.

[noiretextatique]

56. well, it wasn't funny

and neither are your reasons for posting it.

[Sagan]

18. Anne Coulter must be happy...

She says that liberals need to understand that we can be killed.

[Judi Lynn]

19. What a shame.

How pathetic it is when someone who works so hard for change away from brutality becomes the target himself.

Hope they find out ALL the parties responsible. When people who take a stand are killed, it seems political.

[kimchi]

28. Yes, it does seem political.

Of course the "mainstream" will say we are all abunch of conspiracy theorists, but really, who wants to kill someone for doing nothing? The louder you talk the bigger target you are. And from the bizzaro morAn Ashcroft the secret thoughts, "let that be a lesson."

I echo JudiLyn's thoughts that all parties responsible need to be caught, and the truth out. No matter the reason, a politician has been violently killed, and we mourn with his beloveds. It is a sad commentary on our times.

[LizW]

27. Is the other victim dead?

Just saw the replay on CNN of video showing emergency workers taking both victims out to ambulances. They were doing heart compression on both. It looked very bad.

[DEMActivist]

33. Near death, not expected to survive

was the latest word I heard.

[DEMActivist]

35. 2nd victim deceased - no public ID yet n/t

[Blitz]

36. The only ID so far

Is that it was a man and not a council member. How awful.

[DEMActivist]

37. WHOA - 2nd victim Davis opponent

Neil Askew who had just qualified to run AGAINST Davis in the next election.

Some speculation that he is the shooter who then committed suicide. Note, I said SPECULATION.

Now new speculation is that it was a shootout between Askew and Davis.

[Maddy McCall]

38. Fox just reported that a plain clothes police shot the assailant

First killed -- Davis, shot by assailant
Second killed--assailant, shot by plainclothes police

Faux, is reporting it, though.

[Maddy McCall]

42. Clarence Askew-assailant

I googled the name...came up with a NPS Edison site maintenance man.

[pschoeb]

46. Othniel Boaz Askew

Othniel Boaz Askew is a former Davis opponent, isn't this more likely?

here is a cache of when he ran against Davis, for some reason he is not on the current list for District 35 as a challenger.

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:J5FAbCvqJGwJ:www.gothamgazette.com/searchlight/council.candidates.2003.shtml+Othniel+Boaz+Askew&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Patrick Schoeb

[Maddy McCall]

47. yeah, I would say that sounds much more likely.

We'll see. Of all the people being interviewed, no one seems to know "Clarence Askew."

[pschoeb]

50. It seems that Othniel Askew was running and then dropped out

The cache I linked to above has him as a challenger, but I think he must have dropped out of the race, as he is no longer listed. There was another report of another councilman implying that Askew might have joined Davis's team after dropping out.

Patrick Schoeb

[pschoeb]

53. Full report

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/07/23/national1713EDT0749.DTL

Patrick Schoeb

[Maddy McCall]

51. Found a comment by James Davis about the shooter:

35th: Incumbent James Davis will be challenged by Tony Herbert (an aide to several elected officials over the years), perhaps Abraham Wasserman (a Crown Heights resident who ran in 2001), and maybe the unknown Othniel Boaz Askew. "I've never heard of him. Or her," Davis said.


http://www.lidbrooklyn.org/bp061603.htm

[JasonBerry]

30. A Good Man

Davis was a good man. A good progressive and a courageous voice against urban violence of all kinds. Police brutality included. The best memory for James Davis is to continue the fight for livable urban environments and stand up to thug cops who seek to upset the tenuous balance of peace in parts of the city.

[Must_B_Free]

40. Well, I thought Garfield was getting a little stale anyway

and preachy too.

[Blitz]

44. There may be a time & place for this

But I don't think that now, while the body is still warm and people are in shock & mourning, is it.

[phgnome]

52. Bloomberg sound byte

I just first heard about this on CBC this afternoon! They got a sound byte of Bloomberg saying: "This is not an act of terrorism. This is an attack against democracy."

I see ... so people can be called terrorists because they've hacked into a government computer or pirate software, but people who go in and shoot government officials are attacking democracy but they aren't terrorists!?!

If this is not an act of terrorism, I don't know what terrorism is. By legal definition, what is "terrorism"?