1 in 3 would deny illegal immigrants social services: Immigration is fifth among issues of concern

[DeepModem Mom]

Source: Los Angeles Times

By Janet Hook, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
December 6, 2007

WASHINGTON -- One-third of Americans want to deny social services, including public schooling and emergency room healthcare, to illegal immigrants, a Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll has found. Still, in a sign of ambivalence among voters about the emotionally charged issue, a strong bipartisan majority -- 60% -- favors allowing illegal immigrants who have not committed crimes to become citizens if they pay fines, learn English and meet other requirements.

Those crosscurrents create treacherous political waters for the major presidential candidates, many of whom have tended to avoid spotlighting the issue. But all have been forced to address the issue under repeated questioning at campaign events and candidate forums.

During Tuesday's radio debate among Democrats, the candidates were asked if citizens should turn in someone they know to be an illegal immigrant. Most said no. In other settings, however, several have been talking a tough line on issues such as denying driver's licenses to illegal immigrants....

***

The poll indicates that while most of those surveyed viewed illegal immigration as a key concern, it was not the most important issue on their minds. Asked to pick from a list of issues what was a top priority for presidential candidates, 15% said illegal immigration -- the fifth-most mentioned topic behind the Iraq war, the economy, protecting the country from terrorist attacks and healthcare. Asked how much of a problem illegal immigration is, 81% of respondents said they considered it important, including 27% who said it was one of the country's most pressing problems....

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-immigpoll6dec06,1,5649115.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true

[BrklynLiberal]

1. 2 out of 3 would allow social services to illegal immigrants!!!

That is a pretty decent majority.

[underpants]

3. Exactly- 33% is well lets see what could 33% be convinced to support.....

Hmmmmm

Oh yeah this rumbling disaster

[rodeodance]

7. Nicely stated

[aquart]

9. Yes. Two-thirds of us would prefer

That someone on our soil who got sick, could get help.

Otherwise is to invite the fucking PLAGUE. Do we really think we can remain healthy when the stableboys and fruitpickers and the nannies catch a bug from the cousins who can't see a doctor?

So, my darlings who think it's a terrible expense and imposition on your hard-earned life...try to imagine how many bugs you have never been vaccinated for. Because if you can't help someone else because it's RIGHT, how about doing it TO SAVE YOUR LIFE?

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

13. "Otherwise is to invite the fucking PLAGUE."

Not really, letting just anyone in here invites the plague. For example, TB is on the rise. When my Great grandparents came over if they had had TB they would have been sent back.

[silverojo]

21. You got that right

That's what Ellis Island was for. Problem is, we have no similar facility on the US/Mexico border.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

14. Well Stated!

[shenmue]

2. If you break the law to come into this country, why should the taxpayers cover services for you?

I don't know why everyone thinks its okay for people to come into this country illegally. It doesn't say a lot for your respect for people who did not break the law. There are plenty of people who work in this country and didn't break the law to do it--either they were born here, or they came in legally-- and don't get the same services. So why make exceptions for illegal immigrants?

[underpants]

4. Okay what is the alternative- untreated illness? truant kids?

Do you have any clue as to the crime that that would lead to (not the illness)??

Is there any thinking beyond punish punish punish? Any at all?

Is there any link to our immigration history or our history of the social gospel-which became the New Deal???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Gospel


Any at all?

[harun]

10. Many of them come in to the country legally on travel or work

visa's but then simply don't leave once the visa expires.

So if they are staying, working and paying taxes do you think they should be allowed services then (even if their papers have expired)?

I don't know what all these services are that people are complaining about funding. I certainly have never seen them.

[aquart]

11. Absolutely, do NOT treat an illegal with a contagious disease.

It will never spread to us.

Don't keep an illegal healthy and vaccinated because the fruitpicker won't spread what he's got to the fruit and you wash it, anyway. The nanny who sees her illegal cousins over the weekend won't bring anything home to your kids.

It isn't KINDNESS that wants people within our borders kept healthy. It's self protection.

Surely even the most selfish can see that?

[LanternWaste]

15. Because we're all human.

"If you break the law to come into this country, why should the taxpayers cover services for you"

Because we're all human. Because it's the right thing to do. Because we do out best to help those in need-- regardless of what side of the imaginary red and blue lines we're born on.

Once those fictional lines become more important than people, one is left only with divisiveness, bitterness and a target to blame one's misfortunes on.

That's just me, though-- I'm sure that there are many people who think that helping out another human is just plain wrong because "they" were born on the wrong side or a border that exists nowhere but in our own imaginations...

[bunkerbuster1]

16. I think the time has come for Dems to label this a bullshit issue

driven by racists, designed to be the wedge that Goopers use to steal another election.

But that's just me.

[End Of The Road]

24. YES! Definitely agree

This is a bullshit issues meant to distract us, fragment us.

So there are at least two of us, bunker.

[leftist_not_liberal]

17. Cancel your cable, It's fuckin you up.

[TriMetFan]

38. Oh Please..............

How many Americans are on welfare that abuse the system???? I would also like for you to name all the services that illegal immigrants get that Americans don't get?????? Because if you are talking about education or medical ect... this stuff is there for Americans. Do we need to improve on this stuff? YES! But when we have had 30 yrs. of Republicans Presidents since the 60's and about 12 yrs straight of Republicans controlling both Houses, it is no wonder Americans are becoming more poor. But it is easy to Hate/Dislike a group of people, like if they were the cause of the down fall of our Nation. Also don't get me wrong I don't think it is right for people to come to our Nation illegally or to let their passports/green-cards expire and then stay here in The U.S.A. illegally. Or how about just enforcing the laws that are on the books against companies that hire illegal workers???? Here is even a better idea! How about AMERICANS just going and taking the jobs that illegals have been doing and then once these Americans get the jobs, then they could Unionize to get better wages. Now that is the AMERICAN Way.

[InkAddict]

40. Unionize to get better wages, huh? Here's the reality of that.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2007/12/08/layoff.ART_ART_12-08-07_H11_IB8NBEK.html?sid=101

JBM Inc. Bluegrass Satellite will lay off "several," and perhaps 50 or more, of its 57 employees, according to its letter to the Ohio Department of Job & Family Services.



The union recently won a $1.9 million settlement against JBM's Columbus office for violation of labor laws, Painter said.

DirecTV said that "JBM has been unable to perform on its work order volume and is not in compliance with its DirecTV contract." DirecTV has "reassigned work in the Columbus market to alternative field-service technicians."

It hasn't decided whether the Columbus JBM office will work for DirecTV in the future, a spokesman for DirecTV said, adding that DirecTV will continue to work with other JBM offices in Ohio and elsewhere

[TriMetFan]

43. WTF!!!!

You can not have it both ways! Sorry! But this has nothing to do with illegals taking jobs/medical or anything else from us Americans. Now if JBM Inc. can't keep its order from DirecTV and DirecTV has to look some where else for business to fill this gap that JBM Inc. has made, that is not any-ones but JBM Inc fault.

[Zoigal]

5. If it wasn't so easy for the illegals to get jobs

i doubt so many would cross the borders. z

[rodeodance]

6. and the RW and media are determined to make it the number 1 issue!!

[LeFleur1]

8. Jobs

If illegals couldn't get jobs they wouldn't come. They come to make money to send back home to their relatives who are in pitiful conditions. This is about the greed of employers and their use of illegals. Employers can make millions on the backs of these people, and stir up the populace to deny social services, including health care for the illegals and their children. That way the employers can cut their own taxes even more. The best of both worlds.
Compassionate Christians, for sure.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

12. Poorly asked question

The right question is *what services* should be denied, if any.

Im all for granting School, Food Stamps, Basic Medicare but I dont favor state level welfare, or some other programs.

The real solution, that noone in power will address in a meaningful way is (in order)

1) Set the proper immigration thresholds. If we need the labor so badly than raise the immigration threshold so they can come here legally and have all the protections and benefits

2) Punish Employers *hard* for violating immigration law by hiring illegal immigrants. You have raised the threshold and there is no excuse

3) Build a fence once our needs and the rights of those who immigrate are being met.

What to do with those here illegally already? danged if I know...

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

18. I agree -- not all services are equal

I would provide medical care to anybody who needs it, regardless of their status.

But In-State College Tuition? If my kid wants to go to an out-of-state university, I get soaked on the tuition, but the kid of somebody who's in the country illegally gets a break?

Nuh-uh.

If you're here illegally, but have otherwise been a hard-working and honest citizen, you should be allowed the option of becoming a legal worker (through a fee paid by your employer) with a path toward eventual citizenship. If that's what you want -- want to remain a foreign national on a "guest worker" program? Fair enough.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

19. I'm not huge on the work here

love there program..

My forbearer's gave up their loyalty to the homeland when they came to the US. Sure we would route for ND and wish the Irish well in the Olympics but it was the US flag we would first fly, not the Irish one.

[InkAddict]

42. For undocumented workers already here?

How about, if caught, don't deport. Heavily fine their employers, and allow employers to do what they do to Americans that bring the companies bad PR or excessive cost, point them to the nearest classes for citizenship right from the holding cell, if one doesn't speak English, take the citizenship portion in Spanish, but require a basic understanding of written English (not so important spoken fluency), declare them bankrupt and return their assets to the Treasury by reason of failure to comply with appropriate entrance laws and, at the same time, issue them a valid SS# with their new found citizenship, then give them the same opportunities available to Americans who have had to declares Chapters 7 and 11 bankruptcy...7-10 years of credit restrictions and restoration methods...that way, they can, if able, re-organize their economic lives and/or redeem/retain such things as cars of appropriate legislated value. They could then be tested and receive valid licenses, upon proper payment of license fees. If not, bye-bye; come again under more scrupulously enforced already on the books entrance requirements.

It should be noted that they took advantage of American economics for X period of time by entering illegally. They were not "guest workers" once they did not comply with regulations, they were acting selfishly.

Many Americans have no healthcare "insurance," are jobless and homeless, so how is it fair that these persons retain their assets when a majority of Americans lose their jobs due to corporate greed and mismangement through "using" foreign worker to please their major stockholders, their very own CEOs; they people are also acting selfishly and need a wake-up call.

[boricua79]

20. how very Christian of us

what's mine is mine, and what used to be yours...well...we had the Mexican war, and now it's mine, so screw you.

ANd no, you can't have any of my loaves of bread, fish, or wine.

But, hey, if you want, see you at Church on Sunday, ok? :sarcasm:

[brendan120678]

22. There's a difference...

There's a difference between a church offering social services to illegal immigrants in need, and taxpayers money being used on illegal immigrants.

I have no problems with allowing illegals access to emergency room treatment, but that's about it. Illegal immigrants do not deserve access to public education, food stamps, welfare, etc. If a church wants to open up a shelter or food pantry to assist illegals, or give them free/reduced tuition to their private schools, fine...that's their prerogative. At least it isn't my hard-earned tax dollars being used in that case.

[ret5hd]

23. How are ya' gonna spend those "hard earned dollars" you save...

All those teenage kids out on the streets of a country that hates 'em so much they can't even go to school.

Let us know how that works out for ya. :rofl:

[brendan120678]

25. I'd rather my tax dollars...

I'd rather my tax dollars, if they must be spent on anything at all with regards to illegal immigrants, be more focused towards reducing illegal immigration (and deporting those already here) than giving illegals already here any type of benefits.

Illegal immigration is probably one of the only points where I disagree with the majority of others on this site. And why the heck does the spell check keep telling me "towards" isn't a word??

[ret5hd]

27. Deleted because of my poor reading skills

[brendan120678]

28. I'm not saying that you're "wrong" on anything.

I'm just giving my opinion on the problem of illegal immigration.

[ret5hd]

29. Deleted because of my poor reading skills

[ret5hd]

30. I apologize...i misread your original post in this thread...

i read it at first that immigration was "only one of"

on a second more careful reading i see you actually said "one of the only"

my apologies for giving you a hard time.

[brendan120678]

32. No worries...

It's all okay. Have a great weekend!
:hi:

[Mountainman]

34. I think it is spelled toward, as in, "I contribute toward the ignorance on DU."

[pipoman]

47. toward isn't plural NT

[LeftyMom]

26. Wow, y'all really are 15 years behind California.

Guess it's a good thing that douche Pete Wilson isn't running for President. :eyes:

[classysassy]

31. Illegal immigrants

it seem to me that illegal mean all non whites,this issue is so damn racist,its too bad the originals didn't enslave those criminals that came over murdered and stole their land,the so called illigals are the off springs of the originals(Indians),white america should hang it head in shame.History does repeat its self(There is nothing new under the sun)one of these glorious days repayment in full will take place.

[Mountainman]

33. So what makes the xenophobes think they own the hospitals and schools?

If I was a medical practitioner and I cared about the health and wellbeing of people I wouldn't question their immigration status. And to the xenophobes who tell me I should, I'd say go fuck yourselves, you don't own me or my clinic.

So what is the cost of a large population of sick and uneducated people living in this country?

They aren't going to leave so you have a choice, treat and educated people so they can contribute to society or pay for the neglect of their health and education.

I'm sure those 1/3 who we are talking about would be up in arms if someone was found being inhumane to dogs or cats.

[superduperfarleft]

35. Excellent point.

And it also ties into my concern about, with each call to deny immigrants medical care or education or to deport those who are arrested for unrelated crimes, putting doctors, prison guards, teachers, and Mayberry police officers in charge of enforcing the many complexities of US immigration law.

[Gin]

36. Does Mexico offer any services, other than jail, to those who enter Mexico illegally?

If they do, then I say, let's match what Mexico offers.

[superduperfarleft]

37. Mexico also has a horribly corrupt justice system.

Since you're so keen on emulating Mexico, let's go ahead and do that too. Hope you like paying bribes for every speeding ticket. Any other third world countries you look up to as a model for the US?

Also, since not all of the ILLEGALZZZ!!!11 are from Mexico (there's several other countries in Central America, in case you didn't realize), and since you didn't respond to anything at all to what I'd posted, I'm not sure what your point is. Or wait, maybe I do. *cough* race-baiting *cough*

[TriMetFan]

39. Yes they do!!!!

They do not ask if you are there with a visa/passport or green-card. If you are sick and need to see a doctor, they will not turn you away.

[pegleg]

49. The big change needs to happen in Mexico

They have plenty of wealth but little economy.

[ronnie624]

50. The big change, I think,

needs to occur in the minds of Americans.

Do some reading about the history of US trade policies, with regard to Mexico and other Latin American countries. That will offer more insight into "illegal immigration", I believe, than anything else.

I have no links, just some friendly advice. Two excellent books to start you off:

- Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, by John Perkins
- Overthrow: America's Century of Regime Change from Hawaii to Iraq, by Stephen Kinzer

Noam Chomsky has produced a lot of informative material, as well.

Good reading.

[Barrett808]

41. Too bad "environment" and "climate change" didn't make it into the top five

:(

[JustAnotherGen]

44. I look at the economy

Then I look at the damage done to my country for the past 7 years by President Numnuts and Company . . .

I think this issue will sort itself out. When there are no jobs - many who are here illegally may just leave and go elsewhere.

Sorry - I guess I don't see why ANYONE would want INTO America right now - are these people nucking futs or what?

[libodem]

45. Sure spare the snowflakes

but if it answers to bambino, let it die!:sarcasm:

[libodem]

46. I hate Republicans

more every fucking day.

[alarimer]

48. 1 in 3 of those polled are clearly assholes

What they hell is wrong with these people? Do they not realize that sick people who do not get treatment can potentially make everyone sick? What if they have a communicable disease?