Breaking: Fallon resigns as Mideast military chief

[maddezmom]

Source: AP

WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Robert Gates says that Admiral William Fallon, the top U.S. military commander for the Middle East, is resigning.

Gates said Fallon had asked Gates for permission to retire and that Gates agreed.

Fallon was the subject of an article published last week in Esquire magazine that portrayed him as opposed to President Bush's Iran policy. It described Fallon as a lone voice against taking military action to stop the Iranian nuclear program.

Fallon has had a 41-year Navy career. He took the Central Command post on March 16, 2007, succeeding Army Gen. John Abizaid, who retired. Fallon previously served as commander of U.S. Pacific Command.



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080311/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/fallon_resigns_1

---

An admiral takes on the White House
By Gareth Porter

WASHINGTON - A new article on CENTCOM commander Admiral William Fallon confirms that his public statements last autumn ruling out war against Iran were not coordinated with the White House and landed him in trouble more than once with President George W Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney.

In an admiring article on Fallon in Esquire, former Pentagon official Thomas P M Barnett writes that Fallon angered the White House by "brazenly challenging" Bush on his aggressive threat of war against Tehran. Barnett also cites "well-placed observers" as saying Bush may soon replace Fallon with a "more pliable" commander.

Barnett's account, which quotes conversations with Fallon during the CENTCOM commander's trips to the Middle East, shows that Fallon privately justified his statements contradicting the Bush policy of keeping the "option" of an unprovoked attack on Iran "on the table" as necessary to calm the fears of Egypt and other friendly Arab regimes of a US-Iran war.

more:http://atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JC11Ak02.html

[spotbird]

1. That didn't last long

looks bad for Iran.

[PSPS]

16. Yes, plus Cheney is on his way over there next week.

[Marie26]

54. Didn't he also do a Mideast tour before the Iraq invasion?

Edit: Yep.

The Vice President Visits the Middle East: March 10-16, 2002

"Monday, 11 March, 2002

US Vice-President Dick Cheney is London at the beginning of a two-week mission to Europe and the Middle East.

He says that his main purpose is to encourage countries in the Middle East not to harbour al-Qaeda and to assist America in its war on terrorism.

However, in what is the most extensive trip ever conducted around this region, White House officials say he will also be seeking the region's views on military action against Iraq."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1865568.stm


Cheney sure is punctual, isn't he? He's even got the same week of March.

[davhill]

101. Deleted

[MilesColtrane]

145. Will he be riding a red horse and carrying a sword?

Cause war seems to follow where ever he goes.

I think a long time ago in church somebody warned me about him and three other dudes on horseback.

[dusmcj]

160. can't start an op any later because of the heat ?

op tempo needed for an invasion could make summer heat prohibitive. Later, when "mission accomplished" has passed and the pogues and REMFs are making the grunts guard another shithole with an unappreciative population, they don't have to move as fast so it doesn't matter if it's 120F outside.

[krkaufman]

51. And us.

The end of everything.

[Demeter]

86. If Bush Attacks Iran, Will Nancy Set the Table?

[krkaufman]

90. if she doesn't, somebody better. n/t

[saigon68]

119. Yes she and her spineless minions including Limpmann

Will give the "Big Chimp" all the $$$$$$$ he needs

[New Dawn]

68. This was definitely the work of the Neocons!

Here is a useful article about this: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JC11Ak02.html

[LuckyTheDog]

89. Not telling Bush what he wants to hear

has consequences in this administration.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Maybe he got swept in the callgirl sting? (Why not, every other thread today has been about that.)

:hide:

[Demeter]

87. That's the Diversion

Focus on Spitzer's sex scandal, so you don't see anything about Iran.

[Gonnuts]

134. Is Fallon Pulling a Butler?

Fallon could be resigning so he can go on a full-scale attack against bush&co. One can only hope this is the case, that he does what Gen. Smedley Butler did after being approached by elites asking him to have his soldiers overthrow the elected government of FDR and call a massive news conference to expose the insanity ... because if he just goes quietly into the night and allows another bush&co. scyophant to take his place we're doomed ... we attack Iran oil goes to $400 and bend over and kiss your ass good-bye ...

[Ivote]

3. Re: ESQUIRE Article

As per Kyra Phillips cnn
no link yet

[Benhurst]

4. Oh, God! I hope that doesn't mean we're going strike Iran.

[Lochloosa]

17. My first thought.

[Lochloosa]

18. My first thought.

[cui bono]

92. I think that was your second thought.

;-)

[file83]

150. Your thought was my first thought after seeing that second thought -

:crazy:

[Az_lefty]

22. wouldn't surprise me...bush sr. bombed the shit out of Iraq on his way out

[bushmeister0]

24. Oh, what do you think?

Cheney is on his way back over there to do what? Promote Mideast peace? He's just getting all thier ducks in a row.

It's not exactly a surprise what happens to generals who don't follow the party line.

[maryallen]

29. I think the administration wants to steal another country's oil ...

because we're about to bottom out financially here on the "main-land."

That mean 'ole Admiral Fallon wouldn't have any part of the plan, so he had to go.

[I Dreamtoomuch_2]

28. I think I read

that Fallon said he would quit before he would Command a strike on Iran.

[Benhurst]

48. Yes, so did I. I fear an attack is being prepared.

[lonestarnot]

76. or fucking eminent.

[krkaufman]

53. Indeed.... attack on Iran "will not happen on my watch"

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/16/fallon-carrier

Unfortunately, his watch now ends with March.

[me b zola]

102. That is the first thing that came to mind when I read the headline

But then again, did we really think that the */cheney cabal would leave office without attacking Iran? :mad:


:argh:

[PFunk]

50. This almost guarentees it now. The only question is when.

And I think that will be this summer (during the conventions).

[southerncrone]

78. Watch out for April 19.

There have been a number of "bad" things happen on this day:

• 1775 American Revolution began at Lexington (OK this is a GOOD thing, but quite significant!)



• 1933 US went off gold standard



• 1993 Branch Davidian compound burned in Waco, TX



• 1995 Oklahoma City Bombing of Murrah Building

It is also the Eve of Hitler's birthday. A day any fascist no doubt celebrates.

[Hardrada]

112. Check out April 12th.

[Thor_MN]

120. April 6th is the next new moon...

[lildreamer316]

155. I'm going to reference this in the Astrology forum..

I will let you know if anyone has any info.

[dusmcj]

159. 2003 started in mid-afternoon IIRC, lighting may be irrelevant for ops

back then I was looking for the right moonphase for an early morning attack in darkness, cause "we own the night" (I can't recall whether I read something that said new crescent was preferable) but the March invasion started in broad daylight or sometihing like that (maybe because everyone was speculating online about what dark night would be most suitable, and the Pentagon didn't think that everyone could already figure that out so they thought some element of surprise had been lost).

[tekisui]

58. My worry, as well. Who is going to follow?

[lildreamer316]

154. Wasn't there a report saying that the generals would resign if we WERE attacking Iran??

Oh shit.

[SKKY]

165. Well, if we were, one of the main opponents to that just left...

....

[CC]

5. Per MSNBC and Gates speech Fallon is

retiring as of March 31st. Still no link up at MSNBC.

[Plucketeer]

91. Admiral Fallon....

...yet the latest BIG brass to be "Shinsecki-ized" If he's quit because of his convictions, he's an admirable admiral! :patriot:

[edbermac]

6. Hmmm...anything to do with the Emperor's Club, I wonder?

:shrug:

[Hawkowl]

11. Sailors are allowed hookers

It's tradition.

[sinkingfeeling]

7. That's the guy that some claim was standing in the way of Bush bombing Iran.

[CC]

9. Per Gates Fallon talks about the distraction/perception

problem between Fallon and the administration. So you may be right.



Edited to add- According to the talking head (Jim?) Fallon is the one man that stands between Pres. Bush and a war with Iran.

[tachyon]

10. He came close to saying that himself the other day

:scared:

[Catherine Vincent]

8. Is he No. 8?

nt

[Marie26]

12. Was any reason given? nt

[TomInTib]

46. "brazenly challenging"

That's all it takes with these guys.

[BearSquirrel2]

13. Is there any former Centcom commander ...

Is there any former Centcom commander who is NOT at odds with GW Bush?

[trof]

14. Retired? Or fired?

'Retired' like Shinsecki retired?
:shrug:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

23. Or stepping down before his name is tied to their planned war with Iran?

Several possibilities exist here. :shrug:

[Marie26]

34. Isn't that what would happen?

I remember reading that a wave of resignations would be the first sign of an Iran strike. Admirals/generals cannot directly disobey an order from the commander-in-chief, but can ask for a resignation as a protest.

[SPQR2008]

97. The War Is On!!

Nine months. The "War Party" will still enact their plan. This "retirement" proves it!

[dusmcj]

163. once you get past a certain level it doesn't look good if they have to fire you

shit sticks when you throw it and they don't want to have brown palms. It's more gentlemanly to ask the "loser" to bow out gracefully, and besides, he's heading for a healthy pension. The Nazis would have done it by offering suicide or firing squad as alternatives (semijoking ref to Rommel's punishment for involvement in plot to kill Hitler) so at least we're not that bad yet.

[Baby Snooks]

15. Do not oppose the king!!!!!!!

The king will send you to the tower and have you beheaded!

[CC]

19. MSNBC link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23578902/


Top Middle East military commander resigns
Adm. Fallon had run Central Command, called ‘difficult to replace’


AP WASHINGTON - Adm. William Fallon is stepping down as head of the U.S. Central Command, which oversees military matters in the Middle East, Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced Tuesday.

Gates said Fallon took the decision because of recent statements attributed to him that Fallon felt had created a misperception about his goals and those of President Bush.

Gates said Fallon had asked Gates for permission to retire and that Gates agreed. Fallon was the subject of an article published last week in Esquire magazine that portrayed him as opposed to Bush’s Iran policy. It described Fallon as a lone voice against taking military action to stop the Iranian nuclear program.

*snip*

[damntexdem]

20. The Dubya purge sure took a lot of time to bag the admiral.

I wonder if there are many other honest officers left in the top ranks. Well, maybe EVERYTHING the Bushistas do is incompetent, including a purge of dissenters from top military ranks.

[indio55555]

21. Meanwhile in the whitehouse.

McCain and Bush are doing the bom bom bom bom Iran dance.... This isn't good.

[uponit7771]

25. Here are a couple of steps to keep your kid out of the draft.

They will test your family members knees; when the make them stand up out of a crouching position make the knees buckle to one side telling the recruiter there is a knee problem.

If that doesn't work then: When he's called to the recruiter give him a skirt or her a pair of male basketball shorts and a buzz cut. Make sure he or she acts as homosexual as possible (military doesn't like homosexuals).

Also, make sure they don't act as if they want out...

[bullwinkle428]

26. "Ah allweez listen ta'the generals on the ground..."

HORSESHIT!!!!

[blayne]

27. Something stinks awfully bad here.

[margotb822]

30. Fallon resigns as Mideast military chief

Source: AP

WASHINGTON - The top U.S. military commander for the Middle East resigned Tuesday amid speculation about a rift over U.S. policy in Iran. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said that Adm. William J. Fallon had asked for permission to retire and that Gates agreed. Gates said the decision, effective March 31, was entirely Fallon's and that Gates believed it was "the right thing to do."

Fallon was the subject of an article published last week in Esquire magazine that portrayed him as opposed to President Bush's Iran policy. It described Fallon as a lone voice against taking military action to stop the Iranian nuclear program.

Fallon, who is traveling in Iraq, issued a statement through his U.S. headquarters in Tampa, Fla.


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080311/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/fallon_resigns

---

I guess BushCo couldn't have a dissenter in command. That's the loss of a great officer.

[napi21]

31. Shrub doesn't take kindly to criticism. If you aren't a "yes man"

you're OUTTA HERE!

[katty]

32. yup, read awhile back about Fallon being opposed to the Iran

'plan' - with him resigning...does not bode well

[Marie26]

35. Isn't Gates as well? nt

[katty]

40. never been sure about gates--he works both sides

[Dudley_DUright]

55. I believe Fallon's exact words were "not on my watch"

so this does not bode well at all. :scared:

[Faygo Kid]

33. Might also indicate an attack to come on Iran

"It described Fallon as a lone voice against taking military action to stop the Iranian nuclear program." - and now he's gone?

Don't have to be a genius to figure out what that means. I have always maintained that Bush would not leave office without attacking Iran. I thought it would come in March, but maybe this summer, instead.

Anyway, this is truly ominous.

[Vinca]

36. Agreed - it's a frightening turn of events. nt

[katty]

38. i think so...they have time left on the WH meter...tick tick....

[margotb822]

39. Agreed

Maybe I'm thinking too rationally now, but how could action in Iran even be taken? We have no people to fight? We have no money to fight? If Bush strikes Iran, it will be curtains for McCain. He might as well take his name off the ballot.

[Faygo Kid]

43. Bush doesn't give a flying f*** about McCain.

W. is probably the ultimate narcissist in U.S. political history, and that's saying a LOT. He's being told by the same gang that told him Iraq would be a "cakewalk" that we can take out Iran by air and sea, not using ground troops. The money? Bush would be more than happy to break the back of this nation's commitment to things like Social Security by bankrupting us in another war. Plus, he is messianic. The clock is ticking, and he wants his presidency remembered as one that irrevocably changed America. This would do it, alright.

Plus, McCain might not have to worry about taking his name off the ballot. What ballot?

[margotb822]

65. Does Bush have a soul?

If he does, it's going straight to hell. As much as I think it's not possible for this administration to wage another war, I know that it really is. Bush and Cheney will cook up some scheme and force it to happen. Even after the NIE from December said that Iran's nuclear power has been overestimated by this administration. As far as McCain, bombing Iran would kill his chances, but maybe we could voice-over his "Bomb Iran" song to videos of Iran being bombed. F-ing whackos, all of them.

Can we hold the election early and get these nuts out of here? Assuming they don't steal it...

[muriel_volestrangler]

156. 'He is messianic' - yes, that unfortunately is still the case

While his VP tours the area (and Cheney was the one who said 'deficits don't matter' - he's happy to double the federal debt again), Bush is claiming he's on a Mission from God:

In a 42-minute speech to the National Religious Broadcasters convention, Mr. Bush called upon European allies to step up their efforts in Afghanistan, and conceded that recent security gains in Iraq “are tenuous, they’re reversible and they’re fragile.” Still, he insisted his troop buildup there is succeeding.

“The decision to remove Saddam Hussein was the right decision early in my presidency,” Mr. Bush said, to a standing ovation. “It is the right decision at this point in my presidency, and it will forever be the right decision.”

“The effects of a free Iraq and a free Afghanistan will reach beyond the borders of those two countries,” Mr. Bush said. “It will show others what’s possible. And we undertake this work because we believe that every human being bears the image of our maker. That’s why we’re doing this. No one is fit to be a master, and no one deserves to be a slave.”

Calling freedom a “precious gift,” Mr. Bush said: “The liberty we value is not ours alone. Freedom is not America’s gift to the world; it is God’s gift to all humanity.” His words were punctuated by shouts of “Amen.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/world/middleeast/12prexyweb.html?ref=world&pagewanted=print

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3222509

That's chilling.

[eridani]

137. Plenty of planes, though

There obviously can't be an invasion.

[margotb822]

140. Where are the planes going to come from?

Good thing all of the Navy's ships are already in or going to the gulf. I guess they'll have to do dual sorties to Iraq and Iran...

[eridani]

144. They can lay off of Iraq for awhile--the air war there is of no real tactical value n/t

[margotb822]

147. Well, the Marines will keep their wing

But, I guess they could use one (or more) of the carriers that is out there. So, ridiculous. I don't know what I would do if I were a pilot assigned to that mission...

[dusmcj]

161. seems like nonsense, they're calling in air to clear houses. nt

[dommyluc]

37. More blood spilling from the Maniacal Bush/Cheney

Yeah, go ahead. Invade Iran. After the Iranian president's visit to Baghdad - where he walked around Iraq as though he was taking a Sunday afternoon jog in Central Park - I'm sure the people of Iraq will be just as thrilled about an invasion of Iran as the Iranian people. I really do believe the Bush White House people are ingesting hallucinogenics. This country has no money, no military and absolutely no stomach for another stupid war, and that's not even mentioning what this will do to the price of a gallon of gasoline. So go ahead. Please. Do it a month or two before the November election so your Republican buddies can get their war on and go down in flames, along with any treacherous Dems who vote to attack Iran. And I'm sure the rest of the middle east will be all hunky dory with it. Why, I'm sure they'll just sit back and leave Israel alone as the U.S. uses all of it's resources to fight Iran. And I am absolutely positive that all of the Shiite militias in Iraq will honor their cease-fires with us as their Shiite brethren are being killed in Iran. I seriously do believe that the Bush/Cheney administration sees this as another walk in the park, as they did with Iraq. But this is going to be much, much deadlier. An attack on Iran will unite the Iranian people, who are some of the most educated and patriotic in the middle east. I do not see them rising up against their government as the Bush/Cheney mescaline fantasy seems to think. But I'm sure the MSM will help them along until, of course, the body bags come back in such alarming numbers that even they will have to show the coffins on national television. So go ahead - bomb Iran and sacrifice thousands more young soldiers to the meat grinder. Make John McCain's masturbatory fantasy come true. I will shut off the news and wait for Bush and the Republicans to be marched to the political scaffold. I only wonder if, in trying to save their own hides, they will finally apologize for killing our nation.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[harun]

41. This is the start of the GOP plan to win in the elections in 08, starting a war with Iran (n/t)

[CC]

44. I don't think a war with Iran would

help them win the election. I think it would do the opposite. Unless they came up with an attack here and made it look like Iran did it. That I wouldn't put past them.

[jaybeat]

70. This is the start of the GOP plan to cancel the elections of '08 and beyond (nt)

[cascadiance]

152. I was thinking the same. That Paul Craig Roberts' fears of a coup might be more apt to be realized!

If Bushco is able to get rid of all its "problem children" in the military chain of command, then there is a lot more real possibility that they might cancel the election and declare martial law after some "engineered" 9/11-like crisis.

If you had someone like Fallon still there, he'd be one amongst others to say something like "Hell NO! We won't go!" when asked to be a part of the martial law forces takeover of our country.

I still feel that is why executive privilege was used over the Pat Tillman investigation. Not so much to protect the administration itself, but to protect their yes men in the military chain of command who were likely involved with the wrongdoing of his death and subsequent coverup. Without those yes men in positions of authority in the military chain of command, they probably know the liklihood of a martial law coup working in their favor would be greatly reduced.

[Recursion]

42. Stock up on bottled water, canned food, and ammo. Today.

I'm not kidding.

[lonestarnot]

77. Just back from shopping some more canned good sales, 2 for one stuff too, cigs

back for bottled water and I think I will skip the ammo. :evilgrin:

[dusmcj]

162. never thought I'd see that on DU - good on ya!

a balanced population here means we have broad support - good. I've voted Democrat all my life with rare exceptions, and I understand your sentiment (and own a small quantity of ammo ;) truly, a small quantity).

The worm continues to turn, slowly, in our favor. The opposition is slowly getting down to its bullshit-ridden, greed-corrupted core.

[seafan]

45. Fallon is out March 31; Cheney going to meet ME leaders to "discuss issues of mutual interest"

This isn't good news.

Perhaps our last remaining firewall against the BushCheney attack on Iran is gone after March 31.



Admiral William Fallon (from Esquire Magazine)



Fallon resigns as Mideast military chief

March 11, 2008

WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Robert Gates says that Admiral William Fallon, the top U.S. military commander for the Middle East, is resigning.

Gates said Fallon had asked Gates for permission to retire and that Gates agreed.

Fallon was the subject of an article published last week in Esquire magazine that portrayed him as opposed to President Bush's Iran policy. It described Fallon as a lone voice against taking military action to stop the Iranian nuclear program.

Fallon has had a 41-year Navy career. He took the Central Command post on March 16, 2007, succeeding Army Gen. John Abizaid, who retired. Fallon previously served as commander of U.S. Pacific Command.

Petraeus out of step with US top brass

By Gareth Porter
Sep 14, 2007

.....

Fallon is a veteran of 35 years in the US Navy, operating in an institutional culture in which an officer is expected to make enemies in the process of advancement. "If you are navy captain and don't have two or three enemies, you're not doing your job," said the source.

Fallon acquired a reputation for a willingness to stand up to powerful figures during his tenure as commander-in-chief of the Pacific Command from February 2005 to March 2007. He pushed hard for a conciliatory line toward China, which put him in conflict with senior military and civilian officials with a vested interest in pointing to China as a future rival and threat.

He demonstrated his independence from the White House when he refused in February to go along with a proposal to send a third aircraft-carrier task force to the Persian Gulf. Fallon questioned the military necessity for the move, which would have signaled to Iran a readiness to go to war. Fallon also privately vowed that there would be no war against Iran on his watch, implying that he would quit rather than accept such a policy.

.....

Here is the article in Esquire that is referenced above.


An excerpt:

On March 11, Admiral William "Fox" Fallon resigned as the head of U.S. Central Command. But before he did, he was the strongest man standing between the Bush Administration and a war with Iran.

If, in the dying light of the Bush administration, we go to war with Iran, it'll all come down to one man. If we do not go to war with Iran, it'll come down to the same man. He is that rarest of creatures in the Bush universe: the good cop on Iran, and a man of strategic brilliance. His name is William Fallon, although all of his friends call him "Fox," which was his fighter-pilot call sign decades ago. Forty years into a military career that has seen this admiral rule over America's two most important combatant commands, Pacific Command and now United States Central Command, it's impossible to make this guy--as he likes to say--"nervous in the service." Past American governments have used saber rattling as a useful tactic to get some bad actor on the world stage to fall in line. This government hasn't mastered that kind of subtlety. When Dick Cheney has rattled his saber, it has generally meant that he intends to use it. And in spite of recent war spasms aimed at Iran from this sclerotic administration, Fallon is in no hurry to pick up any campaign medals for Iran. And therein lies the rub for the hard-liners led by Cheney. Army General David Petraeus, commanding America's forces in Iraq, may say, "You cannot win in Iraq solely in Iraq," but Fox Fallon is Petraeus's boss, and he is the commander of United States Central Command, and Fallon doesn't extend Petraeus's logic to mean war against Iran.

.....

Another related article: An admiral takes on the White House



So, yesterday, we learned that Dick Cheney will high-tail it to the Middle East on March 16, to talk with regional leaders about "issues of mutual interest".


Indeed, something bad this way comes.



White House says President Bush is sending Cheney to Mideast for talks with leaders

AP
March 10, 2008

WASHINGTON (AP) - The White House says President George W. Bush is sending Vice President Dick Cheney to the Middle East to talk with leaders there about various issues.
Cheney will leave next Sunday, March 16, and travel to Oman, Saudi Arabia, Israel, the West Bank and Turkey.
The White House says Cheney will be meeting with Mideast leaders to discuss «issues of mutual interest.

[Hatfield]

153. The Esquire Article on Fallon is an excellent read

Highly recommended as it provides some excellent insight.

From Seafans link http://www.esquire.com/print-this/features/fox-fallon

[spag68]

47. Iran

OK so now I've read all the posts. Everyone bitching and crying, nobody seems to know what to do. What a bunch of useless crybabies, you all know what to do!!! Get off your ass for a minute and write an e-mail, call your reps. and senator. Get all you friends and family to do the same, make the switchboards hum. No matter what the criminals want to do, it can and must be stopped I've already called The asshat Schumer and HRC. McCarthy is next, get with it. There are 100000 users here that's enough for a start, this could be a disaster or an opportunity to convince them that impeachment is the only way. Time to stop the bickering about Obama and HRC, and present a united front.

[jonnyra]

49. Anyone who thinks

these sick fucks are not a on scorched earth mission to achieve a PNAC dream...attacking Iran...has not been paying attention. They are like sharks...just keep moving forward. Nothing stops them...not laws, not elections, not the voters...NOTHING. And we all know congress will do nothing but slink away like cowards rather than confront this evil regime. They dont give a shit that they only have 9 months left. In fact that only makes them more determined to do the damage they want to do.

Im more convinced than ever this evil bunch of incompetent fascists are going to attack Iran before they leave...IF they leave. Thats what this is about...clearing the way for their next project...destroy Iran as they did Iraq.

[99th_Monkey]

52. Hello Nancy Pelosi?? What is the House doing to stop this madness??

silence = complicity

I cannot quite believe this is all coming down under the noses of a democratically controlled house of representatives
charged with upholding the constitution ... the blood of this new Iran war will not only be on the hands of Bush/Cheney
but also on the hands of "off the table" Pelosi and every last one of her Democratic enablers who allow her to get away
with this shameful "hear-no-evil..." complicity in Bush/Cheney crimes, and go on laa-dee-daa conspicuously unchallenged
by her own "liberal" fellow-Dems (with the sole exception of Dennis Kucinich that is).

[Faygo Kid]

64. Too busy apologizing for MoveOn.org et al?

I do not - and will not - ever understand why, when the Constitution CLEARLY provides that Congress has the power to declare war, that they did not insist that Bush get a declaration of war before attacking Iraq - a sovereign nation, no matter how the hell you felt about Saddam. I will never forgive the Dems for not fighting for the Constitution, with just a few not-loud-enough exceptions.

[krkaufman]

56. "funny"... I'm podcasting last night's Rachel Maddow show ...

... and she just made fun of George Bush sending "Dick Cheney on a *peace* mission to the Middle East." (40:45 in)

Now we really know why Cheney is headed over there. And the only thing it has to do with peace is ending it.

[FightTheRight89]

57. There's no way the Administration is going to go to war with Iran.

They're not stupid, the American people aren't stupid anymore, the world would not have it, and if you really want to know what Bush is thinking about his last year in office, why don't you check out his tap dance routing and his singing for the press. Just gonna ease out that last year...

[spag68]

59. Wake up

It seems you have been asleep for the last 7 years. Of course they are stupid, evil and stupid often go together.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jonnyra]

60. Beg your pardon...

"They're not stupid, the American people aren't stupid anymore"

WRONG...they are STUPID and yes the American people are by and large STUPID. This is the most incompetent bunch ever to lead this or any nation...they are absolutely stupid. As for Americans...there is nothing in the last 4 years that leads me to believe they wont cast enough votes for a dumb fuck like Mccain to allow them to steal another election.

Seriously...say what you want about the Iran attack scenario but I gotta call ya on the idea that the evil Bush/Cheney regime and most of Americans are not stupid...WRONG! We are a stupid populace being led by stupid people. that has been shown over and over these last 8 years...c'mon.

[FightTheRight89]

66. Hold on.

The mindfuck the Administration had on us in the post-9/11 era is over. We by and large oppose the war, oppose the President, and oppose his policies.

[TheWatcher]

96. Ah, trying to backtrack on your own Bullshit.

FightTheRight my ass.

You still support the Son Of A Bitch.

Not evil my ass.

Can you name ONE good thing this bastard has done?

ONE?

[FightTheRight89]

100. Don't tell me that I support him.

Just because I don't find him to be evil doesn't mean that I am a Republican. I'm not going to sit here and take that McCarthyist slime.

[Caretha]

107. Really....

he's not evil....just because over 1 million innocent Iraqis have died, 3986 American service personnel have died, (ALL BECAUSE OF LIES)... just because he has made the shame of torturing humans synonymous with the name America, just because he's raped the treasury of the U.S. and brought us to the brink of a depression, etc., etc, etc. ad nausum

I gotta tell you buddy, in my book, and every human being's book, with 2 brain cells to rub together, that's a Fuckin' evil man.

[FightTheRight89]

108. Are you just looking for all my posts and writing the same thing?

Nevertheless, I will respond to this one as well. I'm pretty sure that poor decision making and sleazy politics led to this unforgivable blunder in our history. But there's a difference between being a terrible, terrible President, and being on the level of someone like Hitler.

[TheWatcher]

109. You come here with that BS, and you'll take whatever I give you.

I have spent the past seven years listening to nonsense from your side.

And I'm through telling people like you to Wake Up.

You can't. You're not capable.

And again I will challenge you.

Tell me one good thing your "Leader" has done.

ONE.

I fucking DARE you.

[FightTheRight89]

111. My side?

My leader? I dare you to make some sense. Please, explain to me what you're taking about.

[TheWatcher]

113. You mean what I'm "talking" about?

You're the one who came in here with the pre-prepared Fox News talking Points and you want me to make sense.

Lovely that.

Now, tell me again how the war was justified, ONE good thing Bush has done, and how the one million Iraqis that have died because of this unjust war are not on his hands.

Please continue.

[FightTheRight89]

115. Again, you're making unjust assumptions.

The war was unjustified. I'm not going to play your game about naming one good thing he is done because I strongly oppose him and all that he stands for. And the fault for Iraq and all the deaths he's caused - that IS on his hands.

But I still don't think he's evil. And I don't think he's bad as Hitler.

[TheWatcher]

116. Once again, you do realize that Prescott Bush, His Grandfather

Actually helped Finance Hitler and did business with him. Enabled him as it were.

But Oh NO, this family doesn't even compare.

Even if they do stand for the same things and play on the same team, as it were.

[FightTheRight89]

118. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT HIS GRANDFATHER.

I am saying this, and simply THIS.

George W. Bush is a terrible President. He ignored the truth because he wanted to invade Iraq. He's done some sleazy, sleazy things.

But he is not evil. And he is not as bad as Hitler.

[TheWatcher]

121. Lying a country into war, purposefully, for Political gain and Profit

Is not evil.

Being responsible for the needless deaths of almost 4000 of our Soldiers (That we know about), the tens of thousands of wounded, for the sole aforementioned reasons is not evil.

The deaths of a million people for no other reason than Power, Profit, and Political Cronyism, is not Evil.


Stealing two Elections is not Evil.

Not only allowing Torture, but making it OFFICIAL Policy, is not Evil.

Mocking someone that you are about to put to Death on National Television, is not Evil.

Torturing Animals when you were a child is not evil.

Just like Water boarding isn't Torture.

What an enchanted world you live in.

None Dare Call It Evil.

I call you utterly and hopelessly naive. Or Ignorant. Whatever works.

[FightTheRight89]

125. You're assuming so much.

I really think that the President thought he was doing the right thing. I really think that he thought it was going to be a cakewalk - that the Iraqis were going to greet us as liberators. It's a tragic fall of a terrible President, whom I loathe.

But the President is not evil.

[TheWatcher]

127. ASSUMING So Much?

HE LIED IN ORDER TO GO TO WAR.

Are you totally deranged? If he LIED and MANIPULATED Intelligence to go to war where he KNEW there were no weapons, no links to Al Queda, he never had designs on doing the right thing to begin with.

If this is all you've got. If you truly think they thought they were doing the right thing, you know nothing about this family or it's history. You have been watching too much Fox News and buying into too much propaganda.

And my friend, you are hopelessly naive if you think this war had ANYTHING to do with liberation, democracy, terrorism, or any of that tired Bullshit.

[FightTheRight89]

129. I don't watch Fox News.

I think he just got caught up in something he didn't understand. I think he was manipulated by Cheney, who IS evil, and wanted to the the liberating cowboy but got duped and made a terrible mistake.

[TheWatcher]

132. But, But wait......

Cheney didn't Kill six million jews and carry out the holocaust either. You are forgetting the standards by which we measure EVIL. Remember?

Try reading the PNAC documents, pal.

The whole thing was planned years before W even came along, but he most certainly was a willing and eager participant. Don't be so foolish.

You are also forgetting the Downing Street Memos. You are conveniently ignoring the fact that he was complicit in manipulating intelligence in order to justify a needless war.

He is complicit. He knew what he was doing.

Please tell me you are not this dense.

[FightTheRight89]

136. I guess I'm just dense.

He is a bad, bad man. But he is not as bad as Hitler.

[TheWatcher]

139. And this folks, is the mentality we are up against.

Incredible.

[FightTheRight89]

142. I'm sick of arguing with you over this.

Because we're getting nowhere. But I resent that you see ME as the enemy, not the other side. The side that is actually guilty for this stuff. We're arguing about semantics over here and there are the Republicans getting ready to whoop our asses again.

[TheWatcher]

146. It had nowhere to go to begin with.

And I'm CERTAIN you lose sleep at night over the "Republicans Whooping Our Asses Again."

Thanks for your "concern".

[FightTheRight89]

149. What's that supposed to mean?

Are you claiming that I somehow do not have as much at stake in this election as you do? Are you saying that I'm not a Democrat?

Thanks for the unwarranted finger pointing and claiming that you somehow can be the judge of what I do and do not believe. I would not be a member of this website were I not a Democrat. See, this is Democratic Underground, so common sense would imply that I, as a member, am a Democrat.

Any ramblings of yours to the contrary are just that, ramblings.

[TheWatcher]

167. Please get over yourself.

Republican trolls who pretend to be Democrats sign up to this Web Site all the time. In fact some of them are DONATING members.

Just because you join the Site doesn't make you a Democrat.

You pretty much showed your hand when you showed up with the right wing talking points.

Sayonara.

[Caretha]

128. Okay

you just don't get it, so I'm going to try this one more time.

Even if you are a stupid and incompetent President of the United State, and that is going to be your excuse for causing so much carnage and damage on such a colossal scale, you don't get a pass. You don't get to say, "Oops my bad", "I'm really not a bad guy, I'm just a stupid fuck that doesn't care about what is right, wrong or what is really the truth, even though I'm supposed to be the 'Leader of the Free World'. And by the way, don't think of me as an evil bastard just think of me as a guy you'd like to have a beer with, because I really didn't mean to, like accidentally, uh kill a million or so, I'm just lacking a little bit of common sense".

Get it yet? Or do we need a 1st grade primer in morality & conscious training for you?

[FightTheRight89]

130. I see what you're saying.

But disagree, because I think the motives behind the actions determine evilness, not the actions themselves.

[Caretha]

143. I guess we really do need that primer

my last word. People in the middle ages thought that burning people at the stake, and torturing heretics and witches was what saving the Christian religion was all about. Short and sweet...it didn't matter what they believed or what their "motives" behind the "actions were", it was evil. Very very evil.

[bluerum]

103. Oh. How courageous. BTW - thanks for enabling the evil bastard for 8 years.

[FightTheRight89]

110. All my fault.

You got me.

[TheWatcher]

117. You do share some of the blame if you voted for him.

Of course even if you hadn't you guys wouldn't have had to worry too much, since stealing Elections is one of their specialties as well.

[FightTheRight89]

123. I didn't vote for him.

Also, I too believe that there were some SERIOUS irregularities in Florida that should have been examined. I really believe Gore should have been our President.

[TheWatcher]

124. You will get no argument from me there.

Both Elections were stolen.

Serious Irregularities is an understatement.

It was a bloodless Coup.

But that as well, is not Evil.

[FightTheRight89]

126. I just think that the word EVIL...

Carries with it connotations along the lines of mass graves, concentration camps, Zyklon B, political assassinations, and the Holocaust.

The President is a bad, bad, man. I think calling him evil denigrates the meaning of the term. I think putting him on the same level as Hitler is doing Hitler a service.

[TheWatcher]

131. Ah, I see, so there you have it kiddies.

If it doesn't wear a Swastika, doesn't kill Six million Jews or perpetuate and carry out the Holocaust, we dare not call it Evil.

By those Standards, Manson and Bundy are just misunderstood denziens, but we must not call them Evil.

[FightTheRight89]

133. They're evil.

Agreed with you there, buddy.

[TheWatcher]

135. No, they can't be.

Not by the standards you yourself set.

I have no idea what haze or hypnosis makes people believe Bush was somehow an innocent dupe in all of this. In order to do that you have to be willfully ignorant of the facts or completely unarmed with them.

He is guilty.

And he should be tried at the Hague along with the rest of them.

So I ask again, condoning torture and making it Official Policy is not evil?

Or was he just an innocent dupe in that too?

Was he also an innocent dupe in Katrina?

[FightTheRight89]

138. Incompetent.

Misguided.
Terrible president.
Sleazy politicking.

Now if he committed 9/11, that would be evil.

[eridani]

141. You can be evil and still not be as bad as Hitler n/t

[bagrman]

95. They know exactly what they are doing, and they don't care.

[Jacobin]

63. I hope you are right. However, I think you are wrong

Bush is peeved that no one is paying attention to him anymore. They're all paying attention to Obama, Hillary, McCain.

He is a spoiled little psychopathic little shit. What better way to distract the country from the messes he has created, than to start another war, get the talking heads spewing about Iran and have everyone forget what a mess he has made of his administration. Also, did I mention he would get lots of attention?

[quadriga]

62. Mideast except for Israel

[goforit]

67. He should not have resigned! He should have fought from the inside!!!

[Demeter]

69. One Man Against the Bushbots?

You don't ask much for your shilling a day, do you?

[Marie26]

71. What could he do?

Short of a coup? A military official can't go against the orders of the President.

[Posteritatis]

104. He can't while preserving his career, no

But you have to admit it'd be .... interesting to see what would happen if a full admiral told the president to get stuffed for ordering an attack on Iran.

[Ian David]

72. Time to stock-up on canned food and iodine pills. n/t

[lonestarnot]

82. iodine pills for? water?

[Ian David]

83. They keep your pituitary gland from absorbing radioactive iodine from fall-out. n/t

[lonestarnot]

85. You mean to tell me that duct tape won't do the trick?

:evilgrin:

[dusmcj]

114. thyroid, not pituitary

you eat iodized salt because without it you don't get enough iodine, and you get goiter, which is a disease of the thyroid. IIRC you need extra iodine in times of nukuler fallout because the fission product Strontium-90 is chemically similar to iodine and binds to your thryoid chemistry, and irradiates your thyroid. Extra iodine fills up the binding locations and prevents the Strontium from being retained.

[Ian David]

157. You're right. Thyroid, not pituitary. n/t

[Thor_MN]

168. hmmm Didn't I just read about a new Strontium cleanup solution?

Thought so. No doubt available in your nearest Neocon shopping center, free with menber card, normally $666 an ounce.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3218658

[0007]

73. Admiral William Fallon is being forced out for calling General Petreaus

a chicken shit piece of shit. No doubt about it! It was more than junior & his little dick could handle.

[go west young man]

74. Time to whip out Brownie or Jeff Gannon.......

they're obviously looking for a yes man and not someone with a spine and common sense.

[dusmcj]

75. this is ? (pick one)

the usual bread and puppet theatre about the subordinate having to fall on his sword to keep up appearances for the sake of the "stature" of the superior

Fallon was tired of the BS and his pension was topped off, so why stick around ?

an attempt to repudiate the evil librul cawmuhnists and perclame lowdly "I support mah Preznit" (as a sort of meme)

a false flag op to bring in a new commander for Centcom who has some attribute which is concluded to be more desirable compared to Fallon - the magazine was just a convenient backdrop

a threat to the opposition that Doober darn well will 'tack them 'ranians if huh fells like it, yes huh will (with Cheney's cornholing neocons stuporvising)

some combination of the above

Enquiring minds want to know, you decide

As a footnote in edit I observe the ongoing farce that the straining of those so inclined, to maintain the "unified chain of command", provides. ROTFLMAO

[olddad56]

79. probably wants to spend more time with the family. ..

either that or hs is opposed to illegaly invasions.

[pjt7]

81. Obama & Hillary should

be bringing up the subject of Iran. We all need to be focused on this issue & NOT let this admin do anything stupid which
will ruin America, on their way out.

[liberal N proud]

80. Another bu$h dissenter out of the picture

41-year Navy career snuffed by a chimp who after 7 years still has no experience.

[indepat]

84. Sold most of my equity position in deferred savings accounts a few months ago, afraid Adm. Fallon

would be forced to retire because the Iran thingy was not going to happens on his watch: now let's see if the next commander is more pliable (ass-kissing and will march to the beat of the drummer's orders even if illegal). :mad:

[laylah]

88. SO,

Harry...Nancy, you traitorous vermin, is impeachment STILL off the table? :mad:

[Jack Rabbit]

93. This looks ominous

. . . and not in a good way.

So, the Frat Boy wants his war, does he?

[EndElectoral]

98. So much to the listen to the Generals BS..

[lovuian]

99. You know Bush is going to PUSh the Military to go Rogue

its going to get to that point
especially is they want war with Iran

[tanyev]

105. TPM: "Fallon is leaving because he was apparently too sane for the Bush White House"

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/182868.php

[eringer]

106. Fallon Becomes Walking Corpse with Big Military Pension

Fallon called it right when he told Petraeus that he considered him to be “an ass-kissing little chickensh*t” and added, “I hate people like that”. Petraeus sold his soul to get his fourth star. Fallon earned his several times being made Patraeus' boss. Folks like Fallon need to stay around especially with China flexing its muscles. This administration has a knack for booting out the very folks that they should be listening to. Pathetic.

[bonito]

122. Interesting comments here as well

http://reddit.com/info/6bp47/comments/

[MilesColtrane]

148. Looks bad, real bad.

If there's one thing we know about Bush it's that he has daddy issues. In his mind he's always going "mano a mano" up against Poppy.

He viewed G.H.W. Bush's decision not to drive all the way to Baghdad in Gulf War I as a mistake for him to correct.
One thing he won't do is leave what he believes is Iran's push for the bomb for the next president, thus one upping daddy yet again.

Stupid, sick, bloodthirsty bastard!

[patrick t. cakes]

151. and very evil

[bdamomma]

158. Gates is no better, he said the whole concept of Fallon resigning

giving the administration the green light to attack Iran is "ridiculous" how many times have we heard that word, and they have carried out their thuggish and murderous objectives.

[bdamomma]

164. this is from akjazeera.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/7D51BAB4-5FE3-4CD9-86F7-5E6C062EAED0.htm

[GoddessOfGuinness]

166. This story has been swallowed by the Spitzer bullshit all over the news...

:grr: