Clinton camp: DNC lawyers 'incorrect'

[madfloridian]

Source: Baltimore Sun

Hillary Clinton's campaign is challenging a recent analysis by Democratic National Committee lawyers over convention delegates, as they prepare for a showdown on the issue at a Saturday meeting of a party committee.

The DNC lawyers recently reported to the Rules and Bylaws Committee that the panel doesn't have the authority to fully reverse the current sanctions against those states, imposed when they failed to follow the party schedule for state primaries. The states lost voting rights for their delegates at the party's summer convention.

"This conclusion is incorrect," Lyn Utrecht, general counsel to the Clinton campaign, writes in a new letter to the RBC committee.

"The RBC has broad powers to fully reinstate the Florida and Michigan delegations," she says in the letter, provided by the campaign a few minutes ago. "It is a bedrock principle of our Party that every vote must be counted, and thereby every elected delegate should be seated."



Read more: http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2008/05/clinton_camp_dnc_lawyers_incor.html

[robinlynne]

1. "Every vote must be counted"? Why didn't they care about that "bylaw" of our

party in 2000? 2002? 2004? 2006?

[papau]

15. If rule is 50% rule can be change it can be changed both up as well as down

[Kool Kitty]

23. Yes, indeedy.

Where were these great champions of democracy at those times? I can't remember them saying a thing.

[FVZA_Colonel]

31. And what about the caucuses?

Because it sure seems they're at least disinclined to count them, thus tossing my (Washingtonian) vote right out the window.

[Lerkfish]

2. wow. how low can her campaign sink, anyhow?

absolutely pathetic.

[madfloridian]

4. It's something new every day.

:shrug:

[earthside]

3. "Illegitimate contests"

I just heard the vice chair of the Rules and Bylaws Committee on the Ed Schultz radio show say that Michigan and Florida had "illegitimate contests" because they violated the time schedule agreed upon by the party.

So, whether or not Obama's name was on the ballot or not is irrelevant -- the contests didn't count.

While every vote that is legitimately cast should be counted, it is an anti-democratic idea to change the rules after the game is over.

To now make the Michigan and Florida illegitimate primaries count as if no rules had been violated would be a total travesty of the democratic ideal.

[snappyturtle]

5. K&R

Ditto to: "To now make the Michigan and Florida illegitimate primaries count as if no rules had been violated would be a total travesty of the democratic ideal."

[aggiesal]

7. And after all the candidates agreed to abide by the rules, ...

and not campaign in either state,
Sen. Clinton still placed her name on the Michigan ballot.

Using the "We'll-cross-that-bridge-when-we-come-to-it." scenario.

[Xipe Totec]

9. Are MI and FL Democratic voters required to support the Democratic candidate in Nov?

Even though they did not get a voice in the Democratic primaries?

That's the real issue the party has to address, while strutting around quoting the legitimacy of the MI and FL primaries.

That is a hell of a lot of Democratic voters to piss off, and everybody knows it.

[stillcool]

12. I so love the threats

and attempts at extortion. I think the movie 'Recount' could not have been shown at a better time. Sad to think it was almost 8 years ago. Nothing has changed, has it?

[Xipe Totec]

19. It not a threat

it's facts on the ground.

You can't dismiss the argument that easily.


My vote counted. So I'm voting for the Democratic nominee, no mater who it turns out to be.


But Democrats in MI and FL are going to take a very dim view of a party that tells them to shut up and take it in the ass quietly.

[MilesColtrane]

28. We have Hillary and her campaign to thank for that.

She set out to convince the voters in those states that the national party is screwing them, when in fact it's their state party representatives who are wielding the strap-on.

Her political career as a Democrat should be finished for that reason alone.

[JDPriestly]

21. If a state, say California, held the presidential election early,

would the votes count? I think not. Just as United States law establishes the date on which valid presidential elections may be held, the rules of the Democratic Party establish the dates after which state primaries may be held. States can hold elections on other dates, but the election results do not count. That is universal, consistent and easy to understand. I can't cast my vote for president until it is time to do so. A small child understands that we all have to follow rules. It is a part of life. Florida and Michigan held elections knowing that the elections would not count. Hillary's folks are being silly.

[roguevalley]

14. i hear they want to chuck caucuses. there goes my state.

[FVZA_Colonel]

32. Mine too.

Do you have any links available that mention this?

[satya]

17. Good point! If the GOP holds an election on 11/3 should we count those votes? nt

[Faygo Kid]

6. Caucuses don't count. Wisconsin, Virginia don't count. Michigan counts, so long as she gets ALL.

And Barack gets none.

The Queen is not amused.

[madfloridian]

11. I hate to say it...

but you are just about right.

That picture..:evilgrin:

[Gman]

8. Everyone needs to understand before going ballistic that

the RBC only creates a report that amounts to a recommendation. Before anything is done, before anyone is or is not seated, the convention has to approve the RBC report. Then and only then will the RBC's report/recommendation be binding.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

13. exactly!

[DrZeeLit]

10. #1 - Who signed the pledge? #2 - Is her word not her bond? eom

[matcom]

16. It's official: I will NOT vote for HRC in November

and its a good thing I won't even have the chance

[suston96]

18. Oh. gee. Somebody around here has been saying this for months....Can't think of his name.....

From the Clinton general counsel:

"It is a bedrock principle of our Party that every vote must be counted, and thereby every elected delegate should be seated."

From that unnamed poster here:

Section 4.

The National Convention shall be composed of delegates equally divided between men and
women. The delegates shall be chosen through processes which:

(a) assure all Democratic voters full, timely and equal opportunity to participate........

(b) assure that delegations fairly reflect the division of preferences expressed by those who
participate in the Presidential nominating process.....

"Rules" cannot violate that. Deals cannot be made that dilute these guarantees, especially for those 2.3 million voters who "participated".

Thanks for the heads up, MadFloridian. Very decent of you.

[sandnsea]

20. So the supers can overturn the pledged delegates

She is psycho.

[TaffyMoon]

22. Put Her On The Supreme Court - She Can Count Angels on PinHeads There

[kc1974]

24. What about the fact we were told these votes wouldn't count?

I'm in FL, and we were told prior to Jan 29th that the votes wouldn't count and delegates wouldn't be seated, so how the hell can they now use these votes? Any of them?

I know many people here in FL who didn't vote that day because we were told they wouldn't count.

Those I know who did vote, did so because of the vote on amending some home insurance bill or other. I wonder how many Obama supporters own homes vs. Clinton supporters?

How come no-one's reporting the fact that those who did vote on Jan 29th, did so in the knowledge that their votes meant nothing?

[tomhayes]

25. Why didn't you go vote anyway?

I don't understand why:
1)Many candidates (Obama, Biden,etc) requested that their name be removed from the ballot. (There was no "rule" or "requirement" that they do so.)
2)Why people in Florida and Michigan didn't go vote for their candidate regardless of whether it would "count or not.

Here's a tip for everyone from now on: VOTE EVERY ELECTION. Pretend it matters who you vote for, even thought in Florida it has very little to do with the outcome of any election.

ALWAYS vote.

[kc1974]

26. Re: Why didn't you go vote anyway?

I did vote that day, but my argument is that many of my friends and co-workers chose not to vote because the DNC told us these votes wouldn't count. I see your point that you should always vote, but what about those who took the DNC at it's word?

The turnout that day was impressive, but I wonder what the outcome would have been had we known it might come to this?

Also, if FL and MI had held their primaries when they should have, as people appeared to get behind Obama more later on in the campaign, maybe more people would have voted for him if they held their contests when they should. And I stupidly voted for Clinton as well.

[tomhayes]

27. The DNC did not determine the date for those states

And the REPUBLICAN Florida legislature pushed the primary date up that early to hurt the Democrats.

The primary system is broke, and Clinton and Obama are arguing the case that's best for both of their political careers. Personally, I think everyone who votes should have their vote counted, and if you don't vote your vote will not count. i find it stupid to boycott a vote under any circumstances. (I also think that all voting days should be holidays to help boost turnout.) So ALWAYS vote.

If the situation was reversed Obama would be arguing the same position as Clinton.

Florida has shown us that election reform (both primary and general elections) need to be regulated in someway by the federal government. States can not be trusted any longer.

[MilesColtrane]

29. "the REPUBLICAN Florida legislature pushed the primary date up that early to hurt the Democrats."

Almost every single Democrat in the Florida Congress voted for it in the full knowledge that the DNC would disallow votes from an early primary.

Roll call on CS/HB-537:

Senate: Yeas: 37, Nays 2

House: Yeas: 118, Nays 0

[SoCalDem]

30. and they gleefully trotted out their "merchandise"..cups, shirts, mousepads, buttons

Criticizing Dean and bragging about "size DOES matter".. They were yukking it up about "sticking to to the DNC"...

Reminded me about how Moms always say "Don't you DO..whatever"..and the cantankerous toddler goes right ahead and does ..whatever..and then screams bloody murder when sent to a time out...