111 nations adopt cluster bomb treaty, but not US

[RedEarth]

Source: (AP)

DUBLIN, Ireland (AP) - Diplomats from 111 nations formally adopted a landmark treaty banning cluster bombs on Friday after futile calls for participation by the weapons' biggest makers and users, particularly the United States.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon urged every nation in the world to sign the painstakingly negotiated pact "without delay."

Twelve days of negotiations ended after diplomats from scores of nations delivered speeches embracing the accord. It requires signatories not to use cluster bombs, to destroy existing stockpiles within eight years, and to fund programs that clear old battlefields of dud bombs.

.......

But Washington this week dismissed the prospect that the treaty would alter U.S. policy. State Department spokesman Tom Casey said the United States remained committed to United Nations-sponsored talks that seek voluntary codes of "best practice" among leading makers of cluster bombs. These talks, also involving Russia and China, are not considering a ban.



Read more: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080530/D90VVF100.html

[Dogtown]

1. Our leaders are monsters

K&R

[boilerbabe]

48. My vote didn;t count the last time..

I didn't vote for those fucking assholes.sorry I am not in the mood to use euphanisms here-- I only have so much time left here on earth. If I bet on whom I voted for over the last 30 yrs- I would be totally in debt> Wait!! I am in debt anyways, because living in southeastern CT is way too expensive, and I am wondering what the fuck the benefits are here..nice trees? Casinos? Sorry, in a bad mood tonight. All I can say it's a good thing I like cheap food or I would be dead by now.

[Heywood J]

68. Even more so when you consider the fact they're made up to look like food relief packets

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2912617.stm

Eighteen months ago, in western Afghanistan, a 15-year-old boy picked up what he thought was a packet of food - it blew his head off.

Sayyid Ahmad Sanef believed the bright yellow object lying on the ground near his home was one of the 37,000 plastic humanitarian aid packages of the same colour dropped on Afghanistan by US military aircraft - but it had come from a cluster bomb.
<...>
But Mr Lloyd said: "As we know from Afghanistan, Kosovo and the last Gulf war, these weapons cannot be used in a way that discriminates between civilian and military targets and that is illegal under military and humanitarian international law."

Cluster bombs have killed nearly 2,000 Kuwaitis since the end of the 1991 Gulf war, according to Labour MP Joan Ruddock.

[Dogtown]

72. I was unaware

We've become what we fought against in the two world wars.

:cry:

[Hugabear]

2. We are a terrorist nation

Why should we give up weapons like cluster bombs and landmines, which cause so much death and suffering long after they're deployed? :sarcasm:

[bulloney]

22. Here's your 'Christian' nation, you right wingers!

Where in the Bible does Jesus advocate this endless, senseless proliferation of weapons of destruction?

[boilerbabe]

47. hear ya there..this is just hopeless isn't it? n/t

[boilerbabe]

50. Because we need to kill innocent bunnies, dumb-ass hahahaha

Otherwise, we might want to shoot random persons on the highway---they are all involved with this war on terror,forsure--just look at
'em

[bdamomma]

3. we have lost our souls.

[Bush_MUST_Go]

4. It's our God given right to blow up innocent children! Who would Jesus maim?

[boilerbabe]

51. if we had them in the first place!~ /t

[Cherchez la Femme]

5. 4 comments,

1 recommend.

Wow.

[Divine Discontent]

35. some things make people so mad they forget to rec

but their words of frustration are more than enough, as were these people's comments calling out the US leaders as warmongers, soulless monsters...

[lazyriver]

6. I've said it too many times to even remember during these

dark and awful last 7+ years but...once again I am ashamed of the actions of our government and ashamed we have allowed them to stay in power for so long. Since it looks unlikely we'll see impeachment, we must end this nightmare in November. No more republican "leadership".

[pegleg]

7. Laos is the perfect example of why cluster bombs need to banned

they are the most heavily bombed country in history and to this day children are dying from cluster bombs dropped during the Vietnam war

http://www.itvs.org/bombies/story.html

[ForeignSpectator]

8. In the same boat with China and Russia when it's about killing innocents... quite remarkable n/t

[windoe]

9. Regime Change! n/t

[thereismore]

10. Isn't Hillary a champion of cluster bombs? nt

[RoseMead]

18. Clinton, Obama, and Cluster Bombs

Clinton, Obama, and Cluster Bombs
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-rees/clinton-obama-and-clust_b_84811.html

Cluster Bombs Are Not Good for Children, Hillary
http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2008-03-18/article/29503

[concerned canadian]

29. so, can any clinton supporters justify this:

Hillary voted against the ban of cluster bombs, Bill Clinton said he couldn't "in good conscience" sign the Ottawa treaty

banning the use, stockpiling and transfer of land mines while president. Way to NOT care about the children and innocent

civilians in poor countries, Clintons :mad:

[Towlie]

45. I recommend everyone read those two links!

I had a feeling Hillary Clinton might have voted against the ban, just as I knew Barack Obama couldn't have.

Does anyone know if Barack Obama has made any recent comments about the issue?

[ExPatLeftist]

11. 111 nations adopt cluster bomb agreement, one keeps with its same old clusterfuck agreement. n/t

[postulater]

12. I am ashamed.

As if there could possibly be a "best practices" with respect to cluster bombs.

The Horror.

[Hulk]

13. It's a business....making bombs is WHAT WE DO!!

I would be willing to bet that our biggest export today is bombs, fighter planes, bullets, helmets, tanks, and more f*cking bombs.

We don't want to slow down our economy. Idiots. We are #1.

[RoseMead]

15. I've been thinking for a while now that the US needs to change our motto

to something like: "America - We're Just Trying to Make a Buck." Because from what I can tell, that sums up alot of our history, when you get to the root of it.

[raouldukelives]

17. Exactly

Ain't much left we can proudly claim is "Made in the USA".

[OwnedByFerrets]

21. War is what we export now.

[Fox Mulder]

24. That doesn't make it right.

[RoseMead]

14. Horror is a good word to use here

as so many on this thread already have.

I have become deeply disillusioned by my own nation over the past decade or so. Our leaders are bullies, liars and warmongers/profiteers, and our citizens are - for a variety of reasons - generally clueless and/or could care less. But we huff and puff about being the beacon of freedom and goodwill in the world. As a nation, our hypocrisy is boundless, truly breathtaking.

[katty]

16. u.s. moving backwards---as usual--WH/GOP cultists

[LynnTheDem]

19. America left behind. Again.

George W. bUsh regime; fast-tracking America into a 3rd world nation.

[raystorm7]

28. +20yrs paying off bills & cleaning up Republican damage. We'll be left behind alright =(

[TheMadMonk]

41. You're optomistic. n/t

[lovuian]

20. this is where we are folks

and its not pretty

[Kaleko]

23. Read it and weep. n/t

[Vidar]

25. Showing yet again why we're the number 1 terrorist nation on earth.

[whistle]

26. The weapon of choice by the U.S. military leaders because it is the most lethal against children

...the murdering fascistic bastards :wtf:

[Wcross]

44. Or maybe CBU bombs are useful against massed troops & armor?

Uh, you are a bit dramatic in that statement aren't you?

[superconnected]

27. Yet another day to be embarassed to be an American, thanks to Dubya.

[DissedByBush]

30. Palau adopted it!

Such a brave move for a country that has no real military and relies on the US for its protection.

[jeff30997]

31. But,but...

Cluster bombs are fun! It goes bambambambambam!!!

And then it gets funnier:Kids pick up what looks like toys to them and BAM!!!

:(

[appleannie1]

32. We are now in company with nations known for their disregard for human life.

How lovely.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

33. HILLARY supports clusterbombs

she voted for it

[Divernan]

38. She voted against legislation banning use of clusterbombs in CIVILIAN areas.

It reflects the values of her personal, sick and disgusting form of "feminism" - what I would call "anti-feminism". Ohhhhhhhhhh but she's such a GREAT mother, as many people on DU were fawning over her on Mother's Day - well I'm sorry for Chelsea, having been raised by 2 megalomaniacs. But judging from Chelsea's backing up her mother's lie about having been shot at in Tuzla, I'd say that Chelsea has been deeply flawed by her upbringing.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

56. She thinks acting tough will make people respect her

[corkhead]

34. No worry, President Obama will take care of it.

[Divine Discontent]

36. Seriously, now...

when did our country give up rational military decisions for the madness we show the world today? the 60's? it just seems the war decisions have become more and more uncaring about the 'collateral damage' they cause...


I pray with all my heart that Obama gets in - McCain will bring another million dead and further strain and pain on our military and on our citizenry who are stretched to the limit with surging energy costs, partly caused by the warfare...



New Obama Items Weekly!
www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable

[laylah]

37. Just like we have never

supported the UN Rights of the Child Act...who'd a thunk it?

[trickyguy]

39. American Whitehouse arrogance and Pentagon arrogance is at the bottom of this. They

don't care about the lives of innocent people who these cluster bombs help kill and maim.

The don't have to care.

They are the United States, right. And they know what's right. Right?
:sarcasm:

[Yael]

40. World, we are sorry...

:(

[Mnemosyne]

42. The shame continues, when does the mass rage

begin? :(

More "voluntary" crap for corps. Grrr.

[TaffyMoon]

43. Even Our Psycho Right Wing Govt Signed Up.

[boilerbabe]

46. Our country just sucks no question here...n/t

[boilerbabe]

49. These people are not representing us! n/t

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ronnie624]

64. We were waiting for you to fill in the details.

Please post a link to this website "where's their conclusive evidence ... other than 5 or so cases."

Some of your expertise on munitions use and "high tech weapons packages" would be appreciated also. I can't seem to tear myself away from Starbucks long enough to search for myself.

Thanks.

[pokercat999]

52. Who manufactures cluster bombs and how much do they

contribute to the politicians of both parties?

Re-Election and the need to raise money for for multi-million dollar campaigns is the cause of most of the bullshit we see from our "elected" officials. End re-election with term limits and you will go a long way toward the elimination of this kind of shit.

ONE TERM AND OUT FOREVER!

[skoalyman]

54. they should had built in a de-arming device inside the bombs

but I guess they only think about the present and not the future.

[Pavulon]

58. That is a sensible suggestion

these things are tremendously effective at killing massed troops and vehicles. It was used in GW1 it did its job. DU, the weapon, is also highly effective at its job.

Making the bomblet disarm would be reasonable.

[pokercat999]

60. But it would add a cost not justified by the purpose of the

weapon which is to KILL PEOPLE! Don't get me wrong I'm not against killing people it just seems we always kill the wrong ones. When do I get to choose?

:sarcasm:

[Pavulon]

61. Take the simple saftey up to PAL

in thermonuclear weapons. Its purpose is to kill the target. Failing to detonate leaves material that could be used in an IED or kill non-combatants, which is NOT its purpose.

It is possible and reasonable to design the thing to go inert after a given time.

[glowing]

55. That would mean we'd have to stop using them and stop selling them to other

countries.... and we all know arms dealing is big business with lots of profit for "black ops".

[ileus]

57. but not US, or any other nation with an airforce.

[rhiannon55]

59. We NEED cluster bombs

to carry out our genocidal population control policies. It's the Amerikkan way, don't ya know?

If our bombs killed only "enemy combatants", all those brown babies would grow up and have more brown babies who would grow up to have MORE brown babies, and THEN where would we be? Fighting to control (i.e. steal) the resources (i.e. oil) in countries full of people, that's where! Gotta clear 'em out, you know. Gotta make room for the oil companies to come in and safely set up operations. Of course, we need to leave enough able-bodied people in the country to do the work, but thank goodness the cluster bombs don't kill and maim EVERYONE.


:sarcasm:

[Pavulon]

62. Like in Yugoslavia?

We used them there. Bottom line is that they work, well. Civilians start wars, once they start them the people tasked with carrying them out should have the means to do that. No major power signed this agreement, which means we cant sign it.

This argument could be made against any ordinance. Hand grenade, 155mm shell, all can fail to detonate.

This can kill civilians or leave parts for the enemy to use in IEDs.

If you want to kill lots of people really fast we have much more effective means at our disposal.

[rhiannon55]

63. But wait...

Amerikkan war chiefs can't "kill lots of people really fast"--that would disprove the big lie that we are the good guys. Gotta be a little more subtle about it. Cluster bombs take a little longer but accomplish the same purpose.

[Pavulon]

66. mmm nope, cant compare cluster with blowing up dams

for example. That tends to kill lots of people. submunitions dont quite fit your logic. They kill people one at a time when left unexploded. An antiquated idea these days.

mortars, plain old saturation bombing, and artillery all kill.

Artillery is particularly destructive on a conventional battlefield.

Again civilians start wars, they (we) pay for wars with budgets approved by elected reps, the military is just left to do the job assigned them.

[rhiannon55]

71. Baby civilians don't start wars

but they're the most likely to be killed or maimed by them.

Greedy old men civilians start wars and make barely grown young men fight and die in them.

Mother civilians have their hearts ripped out by the carnage and death--and sometimes literally by the bombs themselves.

"...civilians start wars...".

What's your point?

[ronnie624]

65. We've never bombed China or Russia with cluster bombs or vice versa.

We've only used them against weak "third world" countries that could never use them against us.

Our culture epitomizes the ignorant, insecure, cowardly bully.

Risk of war with China or Russia would be greatly reduced by a change in our attitudes regarding other peoples in the world, and thus a change in our foreign policies.

[Pavulon]

67. Iraq GW1 was not quite third world

the point is that until the other major powers remove them from their arsenal they will continued to be used.

Contrasting the topic as a social issue with the reality that will follow is interesting but pointless.

Your culture may, mine looks at the civilian command structure of the military and the process that funds it.

Civilians start wars, the people left to fight them should have every advantage on and off the battlefield.

Fuck a level playing field. We are not discussing kickball.

Unless we go back to fighting with rocks technology is a factor. The risk of war, and overall deaths from it, have fallen greatly since 1945. The guarantee that any major attack would be met with a nation ending event keeps everyone nice and calm.

[ronnie624]

70. You pretend that social issues are not a part of the equation

but then proceed to validate my point by saying "civilians start wars". Obviously, the issues of war, which include the mitigation of their effects on civilian populations as well as attempts to prevent them, are in fact social issues.

Your infatuation with battle tactics and war toys actually prevents you from seeing reality. It also seems to indicate that you embrace the culture of violence and war lust that pervades American society, despite your denial.

[Sunnyshine]

69. How typical and sad. n/t

[Robb]

73. United States, Russia, China, Israel, India and Pakistan.

Kind of a critical paragraph left out of the excerpt:

However, the talks did not involve the biggest makers and users of cluster bombs: the United States, Russia, China, Israel, India and Pakistan. And the pact leaves the door open for new types that could pick targets more precisely and contain self-destruct technology.

...Unclear from the article what "did not involve" means, although the paragraph later about "United Nations-sponsored talks that seek voluntary codes of "best practice" among leading makers of cluster bombs" suggests to me there is the big table, and the little table.

This is a story about the little table.

I'm happy to ban cluster bombs in the Dingbat household, too, but since I don't make or use them, it's a little absurd. Sounds like the real talks are going on elsewhere. :shrug:

[meghandavid]

74. Depressing

We did the same thing with land mines and also seem not to mind child labor. Ugh.