Obama says he would cut taxes for middle class

[jefferson_dem]

Source: AP

Obama says he would cut taxes for middle class
By CHARLES BABINGTON, Associated Press Writer

WAYNE, Pa. - Democrat Barack Obama told voters Saturday he would push an aggressive economic agenda as president: cutting taxes for the middle class, raising taxes on the wealthy, pouring money into "green energy" and requiring employers to set up retirement saving plans for their workers.

Campaigning in Pennsylvania, a key battleground in the fall campaign, Obama said he would take a much more hands-on approach than would Republican John McCain. He again criticized McCain's proposal for a temporary halt in the federal gasoline tax. It would "actually do real harm," Obama said, by reducing revenue for road and bridge construction even as oil companies make record profits.

Obama planned to visit the flooded Midwest later Saturday, stopping in Quincy, Ill., to help fill sandbags.

Speaking to about 200 people in Wayne, a Philadelphia suburb, Obama made no new proposals but emphasized earlier ones in light of rising gas prices, inflation and job losses. They include a $1,000 tax cut for most working families; a new Social Security tax on incomes above $250,000; a "windfall profits" tax on oil companies; a $4,000 annual college tuition credit for those who commit to national or community service programs; and an end to income taxes for elderly people making less than $50,000 a year.

Obama said he could pay for his programs by eliminating the Bush administration's tax cuts for the wealthy, winding down the Iraq war and spending more on alternative energy programs that eventually will save money.

He said employers should be required to set up retirement saving plans for workers even if they contribute no money to them. Workers would automatically be enrolled unless they choose to opt out, he said. That way, he said, "most people will save more."



Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080614/ap_on_el_pr/obama_economy

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He's right --- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHJa2fN2QK4

[stray cat]

1. But unlike McCain he would raise them for those who make more than 2.4 million

[jefferson_dem]

3. This time, for the first time in several election cycles, the Dems will win the "tax issue" debate.

--->

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6351653

[Pale Blue Dot]

2. Taxes should not be cut for ANYONE.

And they should be raised significantly for the wealthiest Americans and corporations.

As a nation we don't have the money to play games like this anymore.

[wvbygod]

6. Speak for yourself please

We middle income and less workers are paying way too much in taxes. Obama would do well
to cut our taxes in half and double the rates of those making millions.

[Jakes Progress]

15. Sounds utopian

but the numbers don't add up. We are past broke already. And we need to increase the rate for the super rich by more than double the taxes just to get back to where we were 20 years ago. Check out "Perfectly Legal" by David Cay Johnson.

Every guy running for office promises to cut middle class taxes. Everyone thinks they are middle class. Everyone thinks they pay too much and everyone else pays too little. What cuts? Income tax? Fees? Capital Gains? Property? Business regulation? Define middle class. Define cut.

Don't get me wrong. We need a complete roll back of the corporate and investment class tax breaks that have been rolling to the super rich since Reagan. But we won't get it with campaign slogans.

It's not that we're overtaxed. It's where the money goes. My taxes would be fine if I got good universal health care and a national rail system and better oversight of corporate misdeeds.

[hack89]

37. Perhaps we should spend less?

what a concept.

[Jakes Progress]

47. Where would you cut 20%

of the National budget? When congress goes to work cutting, the first things that go under the wheels are children, the sick, and the poor. Next are the arts and infrastructure. I don't see any person winning by suggesting that we eliminate Social Security or cut the military budget in half. If you look at the entirety of the budget, there are only painful areas to cut. Actually, among industrialized nations, we are very lightly taxed. Our problem is that we get so little for our taxes. We have to pay out of pocket what other countries receive from their tax revenues.

Lower taxes sounds great, but realism, not that's a concept.

[MaraJade]

33. Amen!!

Every single freaking year since the repuke so-called tax cuts, my husband and I have had
to reach into our pockets and PAY taxes. We haven't seen a refund in years. For 2007, we
had to pay an additional $2,000, and most of that was due to the loss of the child tax
credit on our 17 year old daughter who is now a high school senior.

She is still living here, eating our food and sharing our roof. I am still buying her food
and clothing, and repukes have decided that I don't need any tax relief for supporting her.

Anyone who thinks that families like mine should continue to pay every year is NUTS. Period.

[ladjf]

14. Apparently you aren't one of the middle middle class people

who are paying very nearly the rate that millionaires are paying and still barely have enough just
to hang on. the middle class income rates definitely should be reduced and the multimillionaires
rates should be raised.

[truedelphi]

16. We are the only nation that taxes the working poor.

If you live in any European nation or England, your taxation is equally based on your spending as well as your income. And the income taxation is far more progressive. It hits the rich very hard, and the working poor hardly at all.

Also those nations provide health insurance. Americans can be shoved into bankruptcy by their medical expenses and also by the combination that if they are middle class and incur financial losses related to trying to stay insured, or pay out of pocket med expenses, they STILL CANNOT DECLARE THESE in a way to offset their taxes!! that is one of the first tax situations taht needs to be resolved.

If you earn 30K and have to spend 10K for health insurance - you need to pbe able to deduct that full 10K!!

[MaraJade]

34. Yes indeed!

This past year we had nearly $4,000 in medical expenses and we weren't able
to deduct any of it. We also had nearly $1600 in unreimbursed employee expenses
and couldn't take a deduction on that either.


Anyone who thinks that the middle class hasn't paid enough is a fool.

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. Unfortunately, your point about what is taxed is not the case in the UK

Taxation on spending hits the poor harder than it hits the rich. From UK figures for 2001-2:

Percentages of gross income
             Quintile groups of ALL households
                 Bottom  2nd  3rd  4th  Top
All direct taxes   11.6 14.1 18.1 21.3 24.0
All indirect taxes 30.4 19.8 17.8 15.2 10.5
All taxes          42.1 34.0 35.9 36.5 34.6

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/articles/economic_trends/effects_taxes_benefits_household_income_01-02/revised/Lakin_revised_final.pdf

And as for taxing the poor - after the figures above, the Labour government decided the poor weren't taxed hard enough, so, this year, they changed the starting rate of 10% income tax to 20% - but lowered the next rate of 22% to 20%, so that those earning above about £18,000 gained, but those earning below that amount lost. See, for instance, The Guardian. After a public outcry, eventually the government raised the point at which you start paying tax to (mostly) make up for it, though that benefited those earning up to about £40,000 as well - so the government had to borrow a lot of money to do it.

But you're right about healthcare - that is one thing that the UK system ensures people don't have to worry about, whatever their income.

[truedelphi]

48. Yikes - I stand corrected. 42.1 % of the poor , working class's

Contribution out of their pay packet.

My biggest experience with Europe is Scandanavia and I had been told England was similar.

Sorry to hear it is not.

[niceypoo]

45. The national debt just doubled in the last eight years....

....what is it with this tax cutting fetish in this country? We are idiots, fiscally.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

4. I want to know why no one ever does anything for the UPPER class...

...you know, the "have mores" of society...why can't our government show THEM special favors? Don't the Über-Rich deserve some kind of special favors, some kind of tax breaks designed to benefit THEM directly?

What's that?

Bush has been DOING that since he took office in 2000? He did? They have? He did WHAT to the middle class?

OOOOPS.

Never mind.

Go back to eating your yummy custard, 'murca!



:eyes:

219 Days, 10 Hours, 33 minutes, 16 Seconds

:patriot:

[surf]

5. I tired of politicians promising a middle class tax cut

They just use it as a ploy to get votes. Remember Bush Sr's "No new taxes!" and Clinton's middle class tax cut that never happened. I doubt McCain or Obama will cut taxes. I'm not sure I trust either of these guys to run the economy.

[Bluenorthwest]

8. Obviously not McCain...

He himself says he is clueless on economic issues. Are you considering voting for McSame and if so, how can you sleep at night?

[Baby Snooks]

7. Oh, my, the Republicans are choking on their lunch...

Might be nice to see the rich carry themselves instead of letting the middle-class carry them.

Barack Obama is the road to the future of America. A fair America. Where everyone pays their fair share. Not just the middle-class.

[phantom power]

9. I'd rather see him balance the budget than cut taxes.

[jody]

10. IMO that's wrong. He should support increasing taxes for the middle class and really, really

increase taxes for the upper income brackets.

That plus eliminate every possible penny spent for programs and projects that are not key to the survival of our economy and therefore society.

[frickaline]

12. sorry but that would be completely wrong.

[jody]

19. Do you support the borrow and spend policies of the corrupt Bush administration? How do you propose

to balance the budget and begin to reduce our $9.4 trillion debt?

[frickaline]

25. perhaps you should read my post

so you realize where all the money actually is.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3352756&mesg_id=3352923

[jody]

39. Interesting statement and it supports the fact that less than 1% of Americans own over 50% of our

financial wealth and control every major multinational corporation in the country.

At the upper end of the income spectrum however, people have substantial disposable incomes and IMO some of that should be taxed.

Back to the one per centers, since they own 50%+ of the financial wealth, why shouldn't they pay 50% of the cost of defending that wealth, i.e. half the DoD budget?

[frickaline]

41. I think the key here is to recognize the growing class gap

"national income going to the top 1 percent <...> from 1979 (7.5 percent) to 2005 (15.6 percent)"

In other words, the top 1% are getting an ever growing slice of the national income pie and are squeezing out both the middle and lower classes. If we fail to protect the middle class, we will be left with no hope for the lower class to ever escape their poverty. A nation without a middle class is a nation enslaved.

We need to bring back the death tax for starters. People inheriting huge sums of money in this country is just a recipe for Oligarchy. This is a nation of opportunity, why would people be allowed to hold on to massive wealth gained through their parent's successes?

I know there has been some talk about an increase to capital gains taxes. I haven't seen a lot of specifics on the exact proposal, but this may not be the best idea depending on what the proposal is. And if we are truly heading into a recession/depression this would not likely net much in taxes anyway. A tax on obscene oil profits would make a lot of sense to me. I think it should be illegal to profit beyond a reasonable limit from the sale of inelastic, life-providing resources, particularly in an energy crisis.

We also need to get spending under control. Stopping the war will do a lot to get this back under control.

[Doremus]

13. I hope you're joking.

The middle class, or what's left of it, is carrying the whole freaking load as it is. Good grief.

The two segments of society that are growing in numbers are 1) the impoverished and 2) the wealthy. Wanna guess which way most of the middle class is going?

Obama has it exactly right. Get corporations and the rich to start paying their fair share after years of skating by and ease the burden on the struggling middle class.

[jody]

18. Obviously you did not read my post. Have a nice day. n/t

[Doremus]

31. Of course I did.

To quote:

"He should support increasing taxes for the middle class..."


I disagree and stated my reasons. You haven't given any reasons for raising taxes on the beleaguered middle class. I'm all ears.

[jody]

40. I did not limit my opinion to the middle class but included heavier taxes on the upper income

earners and called for cutting programs and projects that are not essential to the survival of our economy.

I suspect you and I are close enough in our views such that we could quickly find a compromise if we were representatives of the People.

[Doremus]

44. Any proposal that includes higher taxes on the middle class

is not a proposal I can support.

Period.

If one were trying to kill off the middle class once and for all, they would raise their taxes. It would be the final blow, the nudge over the cliff, the death knell.

Further, your suggestion to "cut programs and projects unessential to the survival of the economy" sounds a mite puggish. Which programs ought to go, in your opinion?

[hughee99]

22. He'll have a tougher time doing much about it

from his seat in the Senate after he loses, though.

There is absolutely ZERO chance he can win campaigning like this. Some members of our party (unfortunately many of the elected ones not included) have spent the last few years pointing out how corrupt, incompetent and wasteful our government is. Now to turn around and tell everyone you're going to take more of their money before you've demonstrated that government can be trusted with it is a recipe for disaster.

[jody]

23. Careful, your statement can be interpreted to support continued borrow and spend budgets. Is that

your position? n/t

[hughee99]

24. As your could be interpreted as supporting the fiscal irresponsibility

and corruption embedded in government. Why would anyone want to send them more money after hearing about how much they've flushed down the toilet and with no evidence that your new money isn't headed for the same sewer. For me, a politician needs to demonstrate that they can balance a budget and run things more efficiently before I feel comfortable sending any more money.

[jody]

26. How, I called for taxes to pay off our debt and eliminating unnecessary programs & projects? n/t

[hughee99]

27. And I've called for balancing the budget before giving them more taxes

I don't see how I would be supporting borrow and spend. Unless of course you assume the government won't hold up it's part of it. If the governemt don't balance the budget and continues to borrow, why should I feel obligated to send them tax money? If they're going to spend whatever they want with no responsibility, will I ever be able to send them enough money to satisfy them. Basically, we're both asking for the same thing from our government, fiscal responsibility. You sound like you're willing to send them more money on the condition that they promise to show some. I'm asking that they show some before I'm willing to send more money.

[jody]

38. "balancing the budget" without tax changes means cutting programs and projects, and IMO that will

affect some that are socially desirable.

To avoid that, I see no way except to increase taxes.

Have a nice day. :hi:

[hughee99]

42. If we have a government that sends pallets full of cash

to Iraq and has no idea where the money went to, a government that's getting pillaged by war profiteers, and a government that's spending billions on a a war that we shouldn't even be in, I would hope our presidential candidate will promise (and take action) to fix these issues before asking us for more money. I'm willing to send more money, but not when there's such rampant corruption and waste. The one thing I don't hear from a candidate is "I have some great ideas for new programs and I'm going to raise taxes to implement them rather than trying fix the problems in the current programs."

[jody]

43. I agree re "fix the problems in the current programs". Even with that, we must begin to pay off the

$9.4 trillion debt that has mostly been created since Reagan became president.

[frickaline]

11. This equity correct seems required to me

The ever growing gap between upper class and the rest of society just keeps getting larger.

According to the Congressional Budget Office, the share of national income going to the top 1 percent of households more than doubled from 1979 (7.5 percent) to 2005 (15.6 percent). Since the late 1990s, the bottom 20 percent of families actually lost 2.5 percent in average income, while the top 20 percent enjoyed a 9 percent rise.

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/news-events/news/op-eds/growing-class-gap

[Overseas]

17. Of course he would and I'm glad people are hearing the message.

[Athens30603]

20. That education credit is a huge thing

It works out to a rate of $40/hour for community service. That's a frickin' WINDFALL for students. I don't anywhere else they could earn that type of money. If this goes through and students don't do it then I don't know what.

[Middle finga]

21. Lower taxes on the working classes and raising them on the rich

is a good thing in my book, how else do you close that huge gap between the rich and the poor.

[meow2u3]

28. McLame said he would cut the RANKS of the middle class

Not in those exact words, but by his actions.

[Karl_Bonner_1982]

29. I would focus on taxing the rich and increasing social spending first

Then if we have money left over after that we can cut taxes for the bottom 90%.

Will Obama's plan increase or decrease total tax revenue? If the middle class tax cuts aren't paid for more than fully by upper class tax increases, the budget will be worse off. If we want more public stuff, it means that aggregate taxation must increase.

[Yavin4]

30. Raising Taxes Would Actually Be A Good Thing

We have huge deficits, an unpaid for war, and the baby boomer retirement on the horizon. We are currently financing ourselves by devaluing the dollar, and that's the prime reason why gas and food are skyrocketing.

Raising taxes would actually help the economy because it would put the government back in balance, and it would strengthen the dollar by showing the world that we are serious about controlling our finances. A strong dollar would keep prices stable, and it would allow our economy to grow in earnest.

Additionally, once the government gets back into balance, it would set the stage for much needed investments in social spending.

[MaraJade]

32. I'll become a believer only if

(1)the Child Tax Credit is extended to parents who have kids OVER AGE 17 and who are full time
students in high school or college. The current child tax credit cut off at age 17 is
stupid; and (2) the deductions for credit card interest are fully restored.

If Obama corrects these problems, I will believe that there is really a middle class tax cut.

Otherwise, no.

[conspirator]

36. That's of no good if the salaries are FROZEN due to OUTSOURCING and oil and food SPECULATION n/t

[ohio2007]

46. Conngress holds the power to tax. Congress giveth, Congress taketh away

As long as the dems hold majorities, people will see soon enough what social programs the tax cuts come impact.

[JustAnotherGen]

49. Great

I saw a break down in one of the NY papers this week that outlined who would pay what in his tax plan . . .


I guess I don't understand why a single 'social program' needs to be cut? Take 2 or three billion away from the Defense Budget (simple with a draw down of troops abroad), and divert that to the national debt. Tax those making over 250K a year to maintain the existing programs. Then for The Big One (Socialized Health Care) - we look at diverting even more away from the defense budget . . .

It seems simple . . .