College presidents want drinking age lowered to 18

[sasquatch]

Source: Dayton Daily News

College presidents from about 100 of the nation's best-known universities, including Duke, Dartmouth and Ohio State, are calling on lawmakers to consider lowering the drinking age from 21 to 18, saying current laws actually encourage dangerous binge drinking on campus.

The movement called the Amethyst Initiative began quietly recruiting presidents more than a year ago to provoke national debate about the drinking age.

"This is a law that is routinely evaded," said John McCardell, former president of Middlebury College in Vermont who started the organization. "It is a law that the people at whom it is directed believe is unjust and unfair and discriminatory."

Other prominent schools in the group include Syracuse, Tufts, Colgate, Kenyon and Morehouse.

But even before the presidents begin the public phase of their efforts, which may include publishing newspaper ads in the coming weeks, they are already facing sharp criticism.



Read more: http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/08/18/ddn081808drinkingage.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=16

---

When did MADD become "Mothers for prohibition"? They need to take collaborative steps with these university presidents to educate and train these people to be responsible drinkers instead "all or none" bullshit.

[WriteDown]

1. Interesting...

Never thought I would see this.

[texastoast]

2. Oh, yeah, that worked

The 18-year-olds bought booze for the high schoolers.

So the drinking problem was even worse.

[sasquatch]

4. Oh yeah cause High Schoolers just can't get alcohol now if they tried

:eyes:

[texastoast]

6. Not nearly so much, no they cannot

When you are 21 you really don't hang out with high schoolers nearly so much. No. Been there and done this already.

[sasquatch]

9. Have you been to a High School recently or talked to High Schoolers

I went to High School when the drinking age was 21, and kids still got alcohol. There was a party every weekend in fact where there was drinking it seemed like.

[texastoast]

14. But were you drunk at at school every day?

That's what happened here when the drinking age was lowered in the 1970s. More kids got drunk AT SCHOOL instead of waiting until the weekend.

Oh sure, I was right there with you on the weekends. But I didn't have anyone to go buy me a six pack for lunch on a weekday. You had to be 21 for that and most of those people weren't hanging out at school.

Now sure, if a kid is an alcoholic, they will get booze from wherever they can.

But even in libertarian Texas, it was soon realized that mixing 18-year-olds, cars, education, and booze is not the smartest thing to do.

I wonder why we have to keep repeating our history.

[sasquatch]

16. Dude if I was living in Texas I would be drunk every hour on the hour

[YDogg]

27. I LOLd.

[defendandprotect]

18. If you couldn't police this limited age group . . . how do you police even more

"under-ager's" . . . ???


It's like the marijuana argument --- look at the phony Drug War ---
corrupting police and high government officials because it couldn't exist without that
corruption!

We should legalize marijuana and concentrate simply on controlling heroin ---

[texastoast]

23. I think what this post needs

Is a review of the legislative history on the (1) original setting a drinking age (mostly at 21 in most jurisdictions; (2) lowering that drinking age in response to the Vietnam War; and (3) the reasoning behind raising it again to 21.

On the other hand, there is an argument to be made for legalizing everything. Those with addictive behaviors will select out more quickly, thereby strengthening the gene pool against those behaviors and tendencies. Not my words, but when you think about it . . .

[defendandprotect]

25. Unfortunately, the gene pool never changes . . . we're stuck with it . . .

every potential remains in the pool --

I'd be in favor of legalizing everything ---

a rayon blouse would be really nice . . . !!!

HEMP!

[Lost-in-FL]

22. That was in the 1970

I do not think there was much to do for an 18 year old then compared to the 2008. There are plenty of things that now kids do that someone in the 1970's could not dream of. I bet kids were getting married sooner then.

[trynotto_giveuphope]

35. Three Points

1) You can solve the "but then they'll have it in high school!" problem by setting the age at, say, 18 and a half or 19 if needed. Or HS diploma + 6 months = Drinking age. Heck, you could instill some more incentive in getting your diploma by saying: "Drinking age is 21 unless you have a diploma or GED."

2) As other posters have pointed out, it's EASY to get alcohol in high school already. And if you don't think so, then you weren't paying attention.

3) As easy as it is to get alcohol in HS, it's even easier to get drugs. So, when kids can't get alcohol, they get drugs.

In response to the MADD argument: Support public transportation! Free cab rides to the suburbs from 2-6am! Drinking was around for centuries before driving was, and drinking will be around for centuries after it's gone away.

OK, and one last point: Talk to some 21-year-old Europeans sometime and see who they'd rather hang out with--21-year-old Americans, or 25-year-old Americans. I just had a conversation over the weekend with a 19-year-old British student who told me he couldn't stand his American counterparts and their kegger/binge-y ways. Which is why he was happy to be sipping wine at a sit-down dinner with me and my 27-year-old friends.

Case closed!

[noamnety]

48. "HS diploma + 6 months = Drinking age"

crap. I would never be able to drink.

[ryanmuegge]

10. Attractive girls do. At 18, guys have a harder time gaining access to 21-year-old crowds.

But it's still pretty easy for any 18-year-old to score some booze.

[Tunkamerica]

41. you're so wrong

I got my first alcohol in hs when I started working at 15. I worked with several 21 year olds who had no problem taking my money. I bought in bulk so I wouldn't have to bother them so often.

[dysfunctional press]

45. it's generally A LOT easier for high school kids to get pot than alcohol.

one more reason why weed should be made legal.

[pnwmom]

33. Actually, no. Drinking was much less of a problem in college when

the drinking age was 18. And high schoolers now have no more trouble than they did then.

[BearSquirrel2]

55. ... Or like Europe where ....

Or like Europe where the drinking age is younger and ... .... ... well ... they don't have any real problems.

The idea that you can fight and die for you country but not have a beer is stupid and ridiculous. All we are doing is moving back the age of responsibility. It serves young people no purpose and high schoolers have ample access to alcohol as there is always some older brother somewhere who is willing to buy.

[truthisfreedom]

3. Doing things intelligently, based on hard data, has never been the American way.

Unless you're involved in the sciences or technology. Politically, our leaders are pandering idiots.

[billyoc]

5. lol, MADD. Same time they became Mothers Making Bikers Wear Helmets.

MADD are a bunch of nosey fucks that I've hated my whole adult life. They never had a purpose in life, since drunk driving was ALWAYS ILLEGAL, so they had to find something else to do with their time. Unfortunately, that something was ME.

[Indenturedebtor]

8. If MADD really gave a shit, they would be PRO public transportation

WTG deans! Plain and simple - if you're old enough to vote and die for your country you're old enough to drink.

[Posteritatis]

64. ... ... They're *against* public transportation? (nt)

[Truth4Justice]

84. Absolutly. MADD is just part of the DUI indutry that capitalizes off of impared drivers...

lots of jurisdictions would lose federal grant money if the .08 limit were raised back to .10, as well as all the county jobs and revenue created by people, many of whom need substance abuse treatment, not fines and jail time.

[saigon68]

11. MADD are a bunch of nosy fucks

I GUESS THEIR RESIDENT ONCE GOT TAGGED FOR DUI OH WELL, THEY SURE RAISE A LOT OF $$$$$ AND FEED AT THE PUBLIC TROUGH

CAPS ON SORRY

[Gormy Cuss]

7. MADD is a prohibitionist group and has been for a long time.

I agree with the college presidents. I went to college in a state where the drinking age was 18 and binge drinking just didn't happen beyond the freshman year, save for the students who were probably alcoholics. Even among freshman, most were legal age to drink and the thrill of getting loaded and later hungover wore off pretty quickly.

[cyndensco]

30. I agree with you and the college deans.

18 was the legal drinking age when I was in college and few of us drank. When we did, it was social, not the same binge drinking you see today. As others have noted, it you're old enough to fight and die for this country, you should be old enough to drink...

[Christa]

12. It should be

If they are old enough to die for America, they are old enough to drink.

[defendandprotect]

20. That's my opinion . . . though I'd be happier if they couldn't enlist anyone under 21 --- !!!

[realisticphish]

13. hell yes

i say this as someone who is over 21.

Despite what so many say, IT IS A CAKEWALK TO GET ALCOHOL IN HIGH SCHOOL. Someone has an older brother or sister, or a "cool" mom, or knows the owner of a bar, etc. It's not hard, whatsoever. So that argument is moot.

If you can be drafted, you should be able to buy a draft.

[defendandprotect]

15. This is another law which entangles youth in law-breaking -- and

insane hidden behaviors ---

Look at the "21" parties -- it's all based now on over-consumption as a norm!!

The suburbs should grow up and start providing real taxi services and real trolley
services to move people around when they want to avoid cars!

[Mnemosyne]

36. And lose their take when busting people

at their nazi-fascist bastard "checkpoints"? No way.

We have one taxi in my city. One car. It costs $20 for someone to get out to WallyWorld, about 4m.

I needed a ride approx. 12m. back to camp when car stuck in a foot of mud. $65. I found another ride.

What is a '21' party? I've never heard of that before. Thanks! :hi:

[defendandprotect]

49. When the kids reach 21 and can drink they have

more or less over-consumption parties --- they drink everything and anything and
frequently near kill themselves!!

In our town, the cops used to hang out nearby the popular watering hole and
then follow the cars out as they drove home --- !!!

Suburbs are retarded.

I took a look at the huge pile of cars at the RR more than 30 years ago and
thought how insane it was --- and still is!

This week I've seen three Smart cars around town...

Still not even one trolley working in town to take people to the RR --- !!!

[Mnemosyne]

68. Sounds a bit like the Amish 'rumm-shpringa' parties that get busted

around here regularly. Most of those in attendance aren't 21 though, but there is some serious drinking.

There was a trolley from our area to Erie, PA, about 40 miles, many years ago. It sounds wonderful, I hate to drive very often. With our infrastructure as dilapidated as it is, not too sure I would trust our rail systems to be any better than our bridges. :(

Maybe we need mini-hot air balloons. We could harness DC and every state capital and have eternal power for millions!

[Lost-in-FL]

17. I agree that the actual age promotes binge drinking.

I mean, by 21 a student should be thinking on what to do when they get out of college not on how "fu$@d up they might get on their birthday. That attitude on itself is very infantile and somehow ridiculous for that age really. There are countries which drinking age is 16 and at the age of 21 they mayority drink like a normal adult should, in a responsible manner.

[happyslug]

59. My sister, 20 years younger then I call me when she turned 21

She had to go to school the next day so could not go out a get her first legal drink, I had to tell her I had to do the same thing, Pennsylvania NEVER lowered its drinking age from 21, so I had to also go to school the day and the Day after I turned 21. It as not much of a problem,a slight disappointment but then drinking was NEVER my focus in life, like it appears to be for to many on this Thread.

P.S. Pennsylvania was one of the "test" states that showed less drinking by teenagers if the Drinking age was 21 instead of 18. The primary reason is the reason so many people site, most 21 year olds just do NOT hang around 15-18 years old. Now 15-18 year old do get alcohol, as did anyone who really wanted it during prohibition. The key to any prohibition is to reduce who has access to alcohol, not to eliminate Alcohol.

And lets look at some of the good side affect of prohibition, crisis of the liver dropped drastically during Prohibition, wife abuse dropped, education expanded (Through whether that is do to prohibition to the ongoing increase in education from the 1830 till today is debated) and the Republican party lost control of all the inner cities it had controlled since the Civil War via the control of the bars of the inner city (Through most city will turn Democratic during the Great Depression that followed prohibition). All good points in favor of Prohibition. The crime tied in with people undermining prohibition weigh against thee benefits, but my experience with spouse abuse (I deal with in on a daily basis in my practice) shows removal of alcohol helps reduce such abuse to a high degree, more then offset the crime tied in with prohibition.

Thus the dilemma, do you prevent alcohol consumption? or do you leave it go to what ever extreme it goes to? Or do you pick some midway point. I am sorry, maybe because I do NOT drink, I fully support this ban. You have to have some sort of control, the real debate is how much.

As to Europe, alcohol is controlled, most people are NOT a mobile as Americans are, thus you grow up and live with the same people all your life. This sense of Community is extensive throughout Europe, to a much higher degree then in the US. This is Europe's and most of the World's control mechanism, what does you neighbor think of your behavior? Americans do NOT have that same sense of community, and as such that control mechanism is missing. We have been looking for a substitute for almost 200 years (Basically since Industrialization started before the Civil War) and have not found it yet. We need some sort of control, what control do you want?

[Lost-in-FL]

65. 18-21 years old kids

Have to learn self control one way or the other. No one want to see them fail but there aren't other ways to go around it sometimes. IMHO this all come down to discipline and how do you teach your kids about it. Because some are failing to discipline their own kids or because we just cannot discipline our kids without big brother watching, bogus laws like raising drinking age are accepted. The point is how do we teach our kids self control when it comes to alcohol? Can this simple task help them make bigger decisions about adulthood? We cannot criminalize alcohol for every young adult cause some idiot made the wrong choice.

We just cannot over protect young adults forever. We do not need more control. We need a better education system which is the basic difference between Europeans and us. Europeans discipline their kids about alcohol. Kids are allowed to drink around their parents and they learn about alcohol consumption in a healthy environment. In Germany for example they bottle grape juice that is called "Kinderwine" and at family gatherings kids drink their "wine" thus developing a healthy relationship with alcohol. In Italy, wine is diluted with water and given to them during family gatherings only. Try doing that here... you can land in jail! Unfortunately, we desire control because many are failing as parents and they need police authority to do the job for them. Of course, you can enlist and die for your country younger cause that works best for many. They do not know what to do with that unruly kid so they suggest he/she join the forces and then... their kid mysteriously reached adulthood.

We do not want government or law enforcement intrusion but we are asking government to protect our kids for us? How much control do we want? How much intrusion do we want? It is always ok or just under certain circumstances? Why punish everyone when it is only a minority who gets affected? Can we let parents be parents?

[appal_jack]

19. I'd prefer to lower the drinking age to 15

With the drinking age at 15, and the driving age at 16 or 17, kids could get the binge stuff out of their systems before they get behind a wheel. Safer for everyone. Works for Europe...

-app

[defendandprotect]

21. I agree for the most party; this fear of alcohol is insane and leads to overdrinking ---

[XemaSab]

28. I say lower it to f***ing CONCEPTION

If alcohol was available to anyone, anytime, it wouldn't be something "rebels" do... take away the rebellion of it, and rebels will find something else to do besides getting trashed.

[hedgehog]

44. I know what to do! Since kids only drink because it's a "rebel thing"

to do, let's drop all the age limits on drinking and ban reading Jane Austen!

[texastoast]

58. Europe has a very different consumption culture than here

There, they drink for flavor (okay, maybe not my Irish relatives).

Here, many people drink for the buzz.

[AngryAmish]

70. Just as many Europeans drink to get drunk as Americans

Americans tend to meet upper middle class Europeans who are the kind of person that would meet foreigners. Those are the kind of person who does not get drunk in public. So, Americans observations of Europeans drinking for flavor are only observations, not facts.

Some nations drink more than others for various cultural and genetic reasons (there is a genetic component to alcoholism and consumption - and many nations have more homogeneous genomes than others. Japan is an extreme example - and talk about a nation that can't hold their liquor - but they (generally) lack an enzyme that allows faster metabolism of alcohol.)

[texastoast]

72. I guess that is just the opinion of the Europeans I know

who were born in Europe and lived in both places and came to that conclusion after observing the different behaviors over a long period of time in varying social situations.

[provis99]

24. Half the South has dry counties

where adults can't drink, either. Hasn't done a damn thing to stop drunk driving there, has it? Jeez, these MADD closet-prohibitionists piss me off. They're part of the same crowd that banned smoking in pubs, because THAT encourages bad behavior too. I can hardly wait until MADD requires women to start wearing hoop skirts and corsets, because bikinis make people drink at Spring Break.

[defendandprotect]

50. Still have dry counties --- !! ???

[susanna]

52. Yep. I've visited many by virtue of my heritage.

It's stupid, and ridiculous. You know what? In dry counties, my cousins went out of their way to get me a six-pack of beer when they knew I'd be visiting. Of course, they bought themselves a case at the same time.

I've been in some southern "dry" areas so isolated that there are the modern-day descendents of moonshiners - people willing to hoard beer/wine/liquor for folks who want some at odd hours. It's a trip, I tell you. And not a good one.

on edit: more information

[Manifestor_of_Light]

73. Texas still has some dry counties.

I don't know how many.

[indepat]

26. All sane but not MADD persons know the legal drinking age should be the draft age or the draft age

changed to correspond with the drinking age. But then, think how much criminality would be wiped clean by one sane act but I suspect sanity ain't gonna' prevail in Amurika. :P

[Arugula Latte]

29. Maybe I'm wrong, but Europe has a lower drinking age and

not such a problem with binge drinking (well, except maybe football hoodlums). Am I wrong? :shrug:

I think if alcohol was seen as something that's pleasant to drink in social situations, in moderation, and WITHOUT DRIVING, it would be better for us all.

[susanna]

53. I tend to agree.

My parents were quite liberal back in the day, mostly because my father had lived abroad. He gave me wine cut with water from the ground up (mealtimes). Now, I just see it as something to enhance an experience, not something that makes one. I never felt it was forbidden; it was just something people may or may not do.

Food for thought.

on edit: word choice

[erpowers]

31. My Take

My take on the issue is that if they can send them to war at 18 they can let them drink at 18. If they do not want them to drink at 18 they should not send them to war at 18.

[davidnc76]

32. These kids already drink and drive and jump off buildings

The latest example of a spoiled is from the streets of UNC. The other day this promising tennis star was charged with DWI:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3394837/


Two fake id's, two young women hit by a car... He is lucky he didn't kill them!

[kwenu]

34. In my case it wouldn't have made any difference. Didn't get carded till I was 22.

:beer:

[susanna]

54. True and funny story.

I got carded at nearly 40. I sh!t you not. I was at a Dixie Chicks concert, and the girl at the beer booth thought I looked too "young." (Ponytail, T-shirt, blah blah blah.) I showed her my ID and she said in an exclamation: "You're MY age! How awesome. You look really good." She gave me two beers for the price of one, LOL. :-)

P.S. I drank one and gave the other to my husband, because...I only wanted ONE beer. :-)

on edit: more detail

[EvilAL]

83. My dad got carded

in Maine and he was 58. I was 18, legal age in Quebec, and we went over the border for the weekend. We decided to go to a bar not far from the hotel. I figured, fuck it, I'll at least try to get in, if they aren't carding and stuff I should be ok. We get to the bar, go in and my dad and 25 year old sister are in front of me. The bouncer comes up to my dad and asks if he can see some ID when we went to pay the cover charge. He blew a gasket.. He said "ID? What you don't think I'm fucking old enough to get in here?" The bouncer said they were checking ALL ID's that night and that he'd have to show ID to get in. "Why?", my dad said, "Do I have to show you ID? To prove my age or for some other reason?" The bouncer said he didn't know, all he knew was he was told to check all ID's, no specific name to look for or anything. Then my dad did something quite uncharacteristic (sp?) of himself and pulled out his wallet and showed the guy. Maybe it's because we were out of our own country he backed off, I never asked him. The bouncer pretended to check it said go on in. My sister looked back at me and I said.. "see you guys back at the hotel"
They had a blast I guess.. I sat in the hotel room and drank alone.

[Orangepeel]

37. there should be one age of majority.

And it should be the age at which one becomes a full citizen (i.e., can vote). It is fine to grant "privileges" (like driving, or even drinking) to younger people, but I think that it is discriminatory to put extra restrictions on an age group that has passed this age.

[The Backlash Cometh]

38. I'm all for it.

[fishwax]

39. our general attitudes toward alcohol are bizarre

and the drinking age should definitely be lowered.

[MannyGoldstein]

40. Supporting Evidence:

Drinking ages in European countries are lower, and there is less of a problem with binge drinking.

[AngryAmish]

71. Like in England?

Please. There is a huge problem with "binge drinking" much worse than here.

Plus the term "binge drinking" is fungible. many people call it having more than 4 drinks at a sitting. I call that lunch.

[hedgehog]

42. So, does this mean young people who are out of high school but

not in college don't binge drink? Because it always seems to be college people who are worried about this.
We can still here all night relating anecdotes to each other, but until somone does several careful studies, we really don't know what's going on.

[dysfunctional press]

46. it's generally easier for underage kids to get into bars and drink in college towns...

i don't know how it is now- but when i was at u of ill in the early 80's, you could get into the bars at 18, but you had to be 21 to drink...SO- they would give handstamps to the UNDERAGE kids- if you had a handstamp, you couldn't drink. and yes, the ink was water-soluble- one lick and you were 'legal'.

[sofa king]

78. You might want to run down some of these.

This link should take you to McCardell's page on alcohol myths and realities, with citations from several papers on the subject.

Also, check here. There are many more out there.

There is a huge reason why colleges are worried about this: they have a legal and social obligation to track the behavior and success of their students. Colleges are also usually responsible to or work in cooperation with local law enforcement, and thus have the opportunity to observe the phenomenon and the results among a known and well-tested sample. And colleges are great places to find social scientists and statisticians. As a result, college administrators are far better informed about the problem of binge drinking than state, federal, and local governments are (except possibly local law enforcement and hospitals). The problem is almost certainly not confined to college students.

If you ask me, we're reaping what we've sown. We've treated an entire generation of young adults as children, filling their heads with MADD's bullshit (and allowing MADD to take credit for the gasbags ((and belts)) that actually save lives) and sending them off to higher education with no ability to make independent decisions--because we don't dare allow them to independently think or act. So the behavior has simply shifted to the age range in which people finally can independently act. Unfortunately, it's also the age from which no crime is ever forgiven or forgotten.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

43. When did MADD become "Mothers for prohibition"?

A while ago, when the WCTU, seeing an organization ripe for the stealth implementation of their prohibitionist aims, moved their people in, started taking it over and sealed the deal by running Candace Lightner, the founder, off.

And yes, it really did happen just that way.

[OmahaBlueDog]

47. They'd be smarter to raise the driving age

I think 19-not 18- if they're going to lower the age. I lived through the 18 yo drinking age, and I could walk in and buy at 15.(I was tall for my age).

[dysfunctional press]

63. same here. i looked old for my age, and could buy at 15...

i remember seeing a guy older than me(but still a minor) get busted by the clerk in front of me in line...i shrugged and said "goddamn kids" as he rang me up.

i definitely think that the driving age should be raised to 18, or high school graduation, whichever comes first. (but no younger than 16 in any case). plenty of kids already get through high school just fine without their licenses.

[galledgoblin]

74. agreed! (n/t)

[Tindalos]

51. I've never understood the infantilization of 21 year olds.

They can drive, vote, and go to war, but they can't have a beer? In Canada the drinking age is 19. In parts of Europe it is even lower. There, it is fairly common for parents give their children a thimbleful of alcohol on occasion. At least, that's how it was when I was growing up. It demystifies alcohol and makes having a glass of wine or a beer just another part of life.

[jbane]

56. Bad idea, been tried before.

My guess is the public will have nothing to do with this because there
are so many high profile cases of kids wrecking cars while drunk, date rapes because of
alcohol and hazing. Nobody outside of the college communities will want to sign on with this
and have it come back on them later when bad things happen as a result of the increase in drinking related problems that will come if the age is lowered.

[Jacobin]

66. works in Europe

The problem here is that its the 'forbidden fruit' and when teens get their hands on they go bat shit crazy.

[dysfunctional press]

67. traditionally, we're a much more car-dependent culture...the two don't mix.

nt

[crimsonblue]

57. lower the age

if you cqn be drafted to fight in a war for your country, then you should be able to drink.

[PassingFair]

60. Stop criminalizing young adults!

I mean it.

Keep the drinking age at 21, but
only ticket and prosecute
drunk and disorderly and drunk
driving.



I don't want MY kid to go to jail
if she has a beer at 19!

[CTLawGuy]

61. 21 = EPIC FAIL

NT

[dysfunctional press]

62. instead of trying to change laws- why don't universities adopt a zero-tolerance alcohol policy...?

if you're a minor, and you're caught drinking/drunk- you're OUT. no reimbursement for tuition or room & board monies.

the problem wouldn't be one for long.

[CTLawGuy]

81. that's a good idea

why don't we also have a zero-tolerance no speeding policy, you speed, you lose your license permanently. Solves that problem.

:eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

87. why permanently...? that seems extremely excessive.

i'm not saying that minors should be permanently banned from drinking, or from attending school.

btw- if the insurance companies that cover universities and college-town bars decided to play financial hardball in terms of underage drinking on premises- the insured would find a way(like zero-tolerance) to solve the problem.

[CTLawGuy]

89. throwing kids out of school

is also excessive, and is not exactly great for our economic future.

[CTLawGuy]

90. throwing kids out of school

is also excessive, and is not exactly great for our economic future.

[yellowwood]

69. What Are They Thinking?

I'm not a teetotaler, but I recognize that alcohol is a dangerous substance that must be treated with respect. The younger one is, the less likely that one will make wise decisions regarding alcohol use. Lowering the drinking age makes no sense at all,and I would question the leadership of any college president who suggested it.
As far as the argument of "old enough to go to war, therefore old enough to drink," GOOD CASE IN POINT! When we see that an eighteen year old has been killed in war, we know that he is not old enough to be there.

[NashVegas]

86. I Think They Think They're Thinking The Change Made Things Worse

MADD estimates the 21 law has saved 800-900 lives per year. But no one's keeping stats on the number of young people who die because of binge drinking, and no one's keeping stats on the number of deaths where the exact circumstances can't be detailed, because none of the witnesses will step forward for fear of arrest.

According to University of Colorado-Boulder Wardenburg Health Center's lead physician Tom Kunstman, alcohol poisoning deaths for college students are becoming more and more of a problem. "There's at least six (this year) but there's no place that's actually keeping data on alcohol deaths," According to Kunstman, one reason is that the "norm" has become much higher than it was a generation ago, pointing out quaffing rituals such as drinking 21 shots on one's 21st birthday.

http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2004/11/no_one_is_keepi.html

[Thor_MN]

75. I could see my nephews being overly curious about alcohol

So I talked my sister into letting them have a sip of wine at Thanksgiving one year. Once they found that the wine that the adults werre drinking at Thankgiving dinner was not substantially different in taste than Communion wine, they lost the interest. My older nephew is now drinking beer "responsibly" (he's not 21 yet) at college. The quickiest way to make kids go after something is to make it taboo.

Drinking age went from 19 to 21 while I was in college, my year was "grandfathered", so we could drink all four years. I don't think there was any less drinking by the students in the years that followed, even though they were not legal to drink. Living in the dorms became much more regimented and rule between freshman and senior years. I do know that all the new regulations that came out are reflected in Alumni donations by class. You can still see a dip centered around my class almost 20 years later.

[LisaM]

76. I just know that when we had 18-year old drinking, we got kegs in the dorms

and we hung around the dorm and drank beer, rather than going out and having 21 shots when we turned 21.

I agree that they should lower it. Hand in hand with this, though, they should ban cars on campus for freshman and sophomores.

We would drink IN our dorm, we almost exclusively drank beer, and we didn't drive anywhere. We never drank shots, either.

[sofa king]

77. A thought on underage college drinking.

I had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with McCardell a while back. He's actually speaking what's on the minds of college administrators everywhere.

I remember after listening to McCardell's lecture and speaking with him I was struck by a thought I don't think anyone else dared to examine in full. Many schools operate on an "honor code" system, whereby a student pledges to stick to the rules, or be tossed out.

But the strong temptation of alcohol, coming at a time when many of these students are being allowed independent thought and action for the first time in their lives, encourages violation of those honor codes.

(It has been explained to me that today's students are nothing like the students of my day. Most of us rolled through our experimentation phases somewhere in the first few years of high school, but thanks to the success of MADD and other campaigns, today's kids are far more inexperienced with drugs, sex and booze than we were. I find it hard to believe too, but the binge drinking figures are a perfect indicator of the behavioral change.)

Students quickly learn that they can conspire with their friends--and, ahem, organizations with funny letters--to avoid being held accountable for those violations. Working together, they can game the system so that the rules don't apply to them, and dishonesty and evasion is an now accepted and widely exercised course of action.

In other words, the drinking age is creating an entire generation of Republicans.

[JustAnotherGen]

79. Good for them

I went to Niagara.

Guess what? I could walk over the bridge on any given day and buy Black Label Labatts when I was - gulp - 19.

Legally. In Canada.

At minimum - drop it to 19.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

80. I've always felt that if you're old enough to die for your country

you ought to be able to get drunk about it.

[lynne]

82. This is all about LIABILITY -

- if the drinking age is lowered to 18, colleges are no longer responsible in any fashion for students drinking to excess on/off campus. It's not about what is right or wrong or who is mature - it's about covering their own asses.

[kickysnana]

85. Also one very good argument against the draft is these laws. n/t

[Xenotime]

88. This will equal to more drunk college porn sites.

[goodgd_yall]

91. What does binge drinking have to do with the legal drinking age?

Whether it's 18 or 21, it's going to happen. I think this is a bad idea. Though lots of people pay not attention to the 21 drinking age limit, it does occassionally get enforced and probably has prevented some dire result here and there.