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A Trained Eye Finally Solved the Anthrax Puzzle

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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:18 AM
Original message
A Trained Eye Finally Solved the Anthrax Puzzle
Source: New York Times

In contrast to the way science is usually done, the research overseen by the F.B.I., which took seven years to finish, was highly compartmentalized. The scientists, who work at academic institutions, say they did not understand important details of the case until a news conference on Monday — which they and their scientific directors in the F.B.I. attended. For the bureau, the compartmentalization was an essential safeguard against the nightmare that one of their many advisers might turn out to have prepared the attack anthrax. “It may have been in people’s minds that someone in the room could have been one of the perpetrators, which ended up being the case,” said Dr. Chris Hassell, the F.B.I. laboratory director. ...

With the morph, the attack strain was at last developing a genetic signature of its own. Though 99 percent of its spores were identical with the Ames ancestor, some 1 percent or less were morphs. Dr. Ravel was asked to decode seven more morph genomes, a task that took two years. He could do only one at a time for fear of cross-contamination in his laboratory. Dr. Fraser-Liggett said she did not know why the F.B.I. did not ask other laboratories to share the task and speed up the critical process. One of the many mysteries the TIGR team had to live with under the bureau’s management was the puzzle of why the attack spores contained as many morphs as they did. At the news conference they learned why, when an F.B.I. scientist explained that the flask in Dr. Ivins’s custody, known as RMR-1029, held the product of 13 production runs of anthrax made at the Army’s Dugway Proving Ground and 22 spore preparations made at Fort Detrick. Some 160 liters of material, the scientist said, had been concentrated into the liter held in the RMR-1029 flask. The vast number of spores, and the many different culturing procedures, Dr. Keim said, “guarantees you will see these mutants, and when you mix them together you will have a characteristic signature.”

Other scientists chosen by the F.B.I. selected four of the morphs as having the most reliable indels. All the attack letters contained these four morphs as well as the predominant form of Ames ancestor-type spores. The bureau at last had a signature of the attack strain. Hoping for just this breakthrough, the bureau had been building a repository of Ames anthrax samples, taken under subpoena from laboratories around the world. As the morphs became available, the F.B.I. started testing samples. At first, some had one or two of the morphs. None had three of the morphs. By late 2005 to 2006 it became clear that just eight of the 1,070 samples collected included all four morphs. And one of the samples was the ancestor of the other seven. The seven samples came from Fort Detrick and one other laboratory in the United States, F.B.I. scientists said at the Monday news conference, held at F.B.I. headquarters. ...

There, the scientific conclusions end. The bureau then began a second phase of the inquiry, that of ascertaining who had access to the flask and its seven descendants. The F.B.I. investigated almost 100 scientists who had had access to cultures from the flask or were in some way associated with them. At the news conference, it emerged that Dr. Ivins had in fact submitted two samples of RMR-1029, one in February 2002 and a second in April 2002. The second tested negative. The F.B.I. rejected and destroyed the first sample because it had not been prepared according to a strict protocol that the F.B.I. says Dr. Ivins helped in devising. ...

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/21/science/21anthrax.html?hp



This article speaks for itself.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. More Specious Bullshit
The form of the anthrax-weaponized-is the key to the perpetrator.

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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. no, it's not "specious bullshit...."
Edited on Tue Aug-26-08 12:13 PM by mike_c
This is solid genetic evidence for the history of the anthrax samples-- the genetic fingerprint of the spore population is far more important information than the weaponizing process, IMO. It really does establish the likely chain of propagation back to the original source material, far more conclusively than anything else I've seen.

Two caveats:

First, I'm presuming that the evidence the FBI is presenting is true, i.e. not fabricated.

Second, there is nothing in that specific evidence either implicating Ivins in the anthrax attacks or proving his guilt. It only proves that if he had access to the original source material or to the subsequent propagation chain then he had one possible element of opportunity. If he was the ONLY person with that opportunity it would still be circumstantial, but more meaningful. As it is, numerous others are KNOWN to have had that same opportunity, and there remains the possibility of unknown individuals, or unrevealed individuals, who might have had the same access. In Ivin's case, it's still pretty thin circumstantial evidence at best.

But in terms of characterizing the anthrax itself, it's rock solid, as long as they're telling the truth.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. yes it's called
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mhatrw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. FBI says it easily replicated anthrax used in attacks
Source: CIDRAP News

FBI says it easily replicated anthrax used in attacks

Robert Roos * News Editor

Aug 20, 2008 (CIDRAP News) – ...

The FBI has said its experts and other scientists helping with the investigation developed a new DNA fingerprinting technique that enabled them to match the anthrax used in the attacks with a batch of anthrax that was in Ivins' custody, known as RMR-1029. The agency has not released a detailed scientific report on the DNA evidence. Aside from that claim, the case against Ivins is mostly circumstantial, and a number of scientists have voiced doubts about it. Early in the investigation, the FBI indicated that the mailed anthrax was a weaponized product, treated or processed to make it spread more easily through the air and penetrate deep into the lungs. It was reported that the powder contained silicon and that Army experts had been unable to replicate the material. The implication was that one person working alone would not have been able to produce the powder. ...

According to a New York Times report on the press conference, FBI officials said investigators determined that the making of the powder was a relatively simple process of cleaning and drying anthrax spores. "FBI scientists easily reproduced it with gear that Ivins regularly used," the article stated. However, silicon was found in the mailed anthrax (as reported previously), and FBI officials conceded that the duplicate powder they made did not match the letter anthrax in that respect, according to reports by the Times and the Washington Post. FBI scientists said they concluded that the high level of silicon occurred naturally in the anthrax used in the attacks, the Times reported.

In other information given at the news conference, officials said the Institute for Genomic Research had sequenced the full DNA of several anthrax strains by 2002, suggesting it might be possible to link the letter anthrax to its source by identifying specific mutations, according to the Times. ...

As expected, the FBI's new revelations did not eliminate skepticism about the case. Dr. Richard Spertzel, a retired microbiologist who led the United Nations' biological weapons inspections in Iraq, called the FBI's new presentation "a pretty tenuous argument," according to the Times. He specifically questioned the agency's claim that the letter anthrax was not "military grade." In addition, Dr. C.J. Peters, a virologist at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston, said it is puzzling that the FBI has not reported finding traces of the letter anthrax in places where Ivins lived and worked, given how widely the spores were dispersed in settings such as the Washington, DC, post office that processed the letters mailed to senators. "I would contend that anywhere he made the powder or manipulated the powder was almost certainly contaminated," Peters told CIDRAP news by e-mail. "Think about the pos nasal swabs in the Hart office building or environmental swabs in the post office. Look at the spore counts on the protective gear when the Leahy letter was detected."

Read more: http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/bt/anthrax/news/aug2008anthrax.html



If the Center for Infectious Disease Research And Policy is not a legitimate US news organization when it comes to the anthrax case, who is?
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. The FBI is notorious for becoming an "instant expert" on anything that will prove a lousy case.
Every time they open their mouths they look suspect.

America's trust in our FBI is at a low... Obama should overhaul it.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Where's J Edgar Hoover when you need him?
The problem is that the FBI doesn't have a cross dressing blackmailer at it's head.

We just have one as the head of the country and that doesn't count.
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. If it's so easy for them, how do we know the FBI hasn't manufactured anthrax in the past?
Or have they?
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dougolat Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. as different as talcum powder and smoke
the 11/18 mailings had a crude product that only affected those who actually handled it.
the 10/04 mailings had a product so fine it leaked thru the envelopes and left a trail everywhere it went ( that's how they identified the mailbox at 10 Nassau St.), when the envelopes were opened, it floated into the air, spread room to room and up and down stairs.
Battelle, offices in Princeton, NJ, was working on just such a product. See Perry Mikesell.
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Sodbuster Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. So is Battelle the "other lab" that the FBI is talking about in the article?
"The seven samples came from Fort Detrick and 'ONE OTHER LABORATORY' in the United States, F.B.I. scientists said at the Monday news conference, held at F.B.I. headquarters. .."

Did Ivans have anything to do with that lab?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. He didn't, to my knowledge. n/t
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. so many details lost on the 24hr News--a Domestic Terror attack doesn't merit the coverage of a
Turtle on Wheels.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Perry Mikesell worked at Battelle offices in Columbus, Ohio...

but he had worked with Ivins previously at Fort Detrick. (The weaponized, powdered anthrax was likely being produced under a DIA program at a specialized Battelle Facility in West Jefferson, Ohio.)

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/national_world/stories/2008/08/10/nyt_anthrax_0810.ART_ART_08-10-08_A7_7QB01D2.html?sid=101


The bureau began looking at biodefense insiders such as Mikesell, an anthrax specialist who had worked in the 1980s and 1990s with Ivins at the Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick, in Frederick. He had then joined Battelle, a private, nonprofit research organization in Columbus that develops technology for industry and governments, which had become deeply involved in secret federal research on biological weapons.

In 2002, Mikesell came under FBI scrutiny, officials familiar with the case said. He began drinking heavily -- a fifth of hard liquor a day toward the end, a family member said.

"It was a shock that all of a sudden he's a raging alcoholic," recalled the relative, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of family sensitivities.

By late October 2002, Mikesell, 54, was dead, his short obituary in The Dispatch making no mention of his work with anthrax or the investigation. "He drank himself to death," the relative said.



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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. And in the middle of his own FBI hell, Ivins said, "Perry drank himself to death"
to one of his associates. I wonder when this all shakes out, how many people have been permanently damaged or are dead because of the FBI.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Donning my tinfoil hat...

I went back to this early DU post, where it mentions connections between Battelle and HHMI, where other microbiologists mysteriously died:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID43/4731.html

What really happened with Don C Wiley?

Wiley was a researcher at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute, which is connected with Battelle.


Part of the HHMI (Northern Virginia) is the Center for Innovative Technology in Herndon and they currently working on a new plant in Ashburn, which is supported by Battelle:

February 12, 2001
http://techway.washtech.com/news/2_3/techcap/7182-1.html

"Northern Virginia has always been trying to get their toehold in biotech," said Walt Plosila, vice president with Battelle Memorial Institute in Cleveland, and former director of the High Technology Council of Maryland. "This certainly would be a major anchor for them."


For some bizarre coincidences the HHMI management likes loactions next to airports:

1)
"...They wanted the (Alexandria) center to be an hour's drive from headquarters in Chevy Chase, on a site at least 100 acres and no more than an hour's drive to an airport.."

2)
"...The Janelia Farm site, on the other hand, is eight miles from Dulles International Airport..."

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. The Ivins case shows clearly that our government is willing
to kill people for political purposes, imho. They had him under surveillance, his OD was treatable. Even before that, they knew he was fragile. Where's the doubt here? :shrug:
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. This article might be more comprehendable...



http://www.strike-the-root.com/columns/rarey/rarey1.html

...

A common thread in the fabric of this web is the presence of two giant foundations; Battelle Memorial Institute (BMI) and the Howard Hughes Medical Institute (HHMI). Billions of dollars have been funneled through these institutes to universities, private companies and individual researchers in the bio-genetic field of scientific effort. The money comes from government grants, contracts with various government agencies and from their own huge endowments. Both have extensive ties to the CIA and other government agencies involved in classified operations.

In a three part series (Anthrax, GOCO’s and Designer Germs) this writer detailed Battelle’s management, or co-management, of four super-secret government installations, one of which (Dugway, Utah) stockpiles and has produced weaponized anthrax.


Researchers Leonard Horowitz and Patricia Doyle have catalogued the extensive involvement and control by HHMI of research on the human genome. At least six microbiologists in that field with ties to HHMI have been murdered or died mysterious deaths (five since 9/11/01).

One of the undercurrents in the development of the ability to change genes is the documented effort by scientists in several countries (including the U.S.) to turn the science into production of deadly designer diseases that attack only specific segments of the population.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. The headline is misleading, isn't it? It's the best write up
but even so, problematic.

As expected, the FBI's new revelations did not eliminate skepticism about the case. Dr. Richard Spertzel, a retired microbiologist who led the United Nations' biological weapons inspections in Iraq, called the FBI's new presentation "a pretty tenuous argument," according to the Times. He specifically questioned the agency's claim that the letter anthrax was not "military grade."

In addition, Dr. C.J. Peters, a virologist at the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston, said it is puzzling that the FBI has not reported finding traces of the letter anthrax in places where Ivins lived and worked, given how widely the spores were dispersed in settings such as the Washington, DC, post office that processed the letters mailed to senators.

"I would contend that anywhere he made the powder or manipulated the powder was almost certainly contaminated," Peters told CIDRAP news by e-mail. "Think about the pos nasal swabs in the Hart office building or environmental swabs in the post office. Look at the spore counts on the protective gear when the Leahy letter was detected."
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
11. OK, let us stipulate that the anthrax found in the envelopes could
only have come from Fort Detrick. We still don't know that someone didn't enter the lab and remove enough to grow their own. ANybody want to place bets that a CIA black operation couldn't do exactly that?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Even if was from a container chained to his ankle
it doesn't really prove he took it out of that container and set out to terrorize anyone with it.

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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. oh they did...
and they did it before the first attack on the world trade center...
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
21. Hey, looks like this story is dead
Don't we all feel safer now?

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PittPoliSci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
22. my ads on the page are for Anthrax ringtones.
like the band.

wtf?
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GoddessOfGuinness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
23. "In contrast to the way science is usually done"...
Well that makes it sound pretty damn spurious to me.
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