Cuba to try anti-Castro punk rocker Gorki Aguila

[Freddie Stubbs]

Source: Miami Herald

By FRANCES ROBLES
[e-mail]
Photo of Gorki Aguila

The Cuban rocker whose biting profanity-laced lyrics against the Castro government has previously gotten him in trouble is now in detention and expected to face trial Friday, according to human-rights groups in Havana.

Gorki Aguila, 39, heads Porno Para Ricardo -- Porn for Ricardo -- a 10-year-old, punk-rock group that regularly denounces the government in its songs.

Aguila was picked up Monday during a rehearsal for an album tentatively called Geriatric Central Committee, an apparent jab at the aging members of Cuba's communist party leadership.

He is charged with ''pre-crime social dangerousness,'' a law the Cuban government uses against people it considers a threat to the revolution.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/579/story/661828.html

[Forkboy]

1. "pre-crime social dangerousness"

They would have put me away at age 9.

C'mon Cuba, you aged fucks...it's just some punk rock. :headbang:

[LeftyMom]

20. If you're a punk band and NOT guilty of "pre-crime social dangerousness" you're in the wrong genre!

[The Traveler]

128. You got that right! (n/t)

[David__77]

2. I'll be curious to see the outcome of the trial.

He was condemned for drug charges in 2005, so he is an previous offender, not that this is too relevant. But authorities everywhere tend to look down on ex-con drug users.

I understand the frustration with the petty restrictions in Cuba, which are, by the way, being dismantled at this time. But I'm afraid the alternative is far, far worse.

[noonwitch]

3. What alternative? Freedom of speech?

There's no defense for a lot of Cuba's actions toward it's citizens. I'm not saying we are correct in refusing to do business with them, while engaging in full trade with China, but, still, that doesn't make it right to prosecute people, even ex-cons, for criticizing the government.

As far as Castro vs Baptista, well, a dictator is a dictator, whether he comes from the right or the left.

[davidinalameda]

6. and we have a winner

the Castro apologists on here think that their guy is the best thing since sliced bread

he's a dictator!

and those who support him are just as bad

[Billy Burnett]

60. No we don't.

Turns out that his band was disturbing the peace in the neighborhood where they practice. They are a very seriously loud band that blasts music with lyrics laced with epithets and sexually graphic language over a loud PA system.

He was fined for disturbing the peace.

The same thing happens EVERY FUCKING NIGHT somewhere in the USA. It has happened to my band several times (in Miami).

He was detained (not arrested) for possibly violating his parole on a drug conviction.
He got off with a warning and a civil fine for disturbing the peace - NOT some US media/US paid exile fabrication called "pre-crime dangerousness" or some such nonsense.

[David__77]

8. The alternative of becoming a colony.

I am not even criticizing this musician. I am merely stating that I hope that people in Cuba who are frustrated also see the danger of a loss of national independence. In no way was I stating anything else. I do not support laws such as the one being used to prosecute this musician. I think that it violates basic concepts of human rights that are applicable in capitalist as well as socialist countries.

[robcon]

11. Loss of independence???? Cuba will remain independent without Castro.

The difference will be - there will be a lot more freedoms: of the press, speech, and assembly.

[bitchkitty]

72. So you wouldn't support a law

against someone in your neighborhood blasting punk rock and obscene lyrics through the neighborhood? This is straight propaganda, it's bullshit. He's not being persecuted, he's an asshole who was fined for disturbing the peace. Unfortunately for his neighbors, he'll no doubt do it again.

[Billy Burnett]

73. Look at all of the threads on gov jackboots raiding indie media and protesters at the RNC.

And some here think that a fuckin' loud rockin' punk band getting fined $28 for disturbing the peace is a big g-damned deal? :wtf:

[Bucky]

22. If it weren't for that embargo, Castro would have been gone a decade ago.

[WriteDown]

25. Castro is gone now...

Well, at least one is. That is my theory anyway.

[cobalt1999]

5. I guess you must be in full support of government control of dissent.

Good God. Why the hell would the alternative to restrictions be "far, far worse". Far worse to whom? Only to the leaders in that government.

[David__77]

9. I meant the alternative to the current state.

The cold reality is that there are two roads open, one is socialist and independent and one is capitalist and colonized.

[The Croquist]

15. I'll take capitalist

and independent over socialist and dictatorship any day.

[cobalt1999]

16. Your world view is way too narrow.

There are not only two roads open. That black/white thinking is what we've been saddled with by George Bush.

There are dozens of potential futures for Cuba and hundreds of sub-options.

Capitalist does not mean Colonized.
Socialist does not mean Independent.

[David__77]

19. Yes and no.

Right now there are basically two roads. It's most likely that if they implemented some sort of "perestroika"-type program, it would result in the Miami right-wingers coming to power and rolling back women's rights, social protections, and polarizing wealth. At some other point in the future, that may not be the case. It's a peculiarity of the international situation. Yes, socialist doesn't universally mean independent nor capitalist colonized but for Cuba right now it does mean precisely that.

[cobalt1999]

28. No, there are not basically two roads.

That is simplistic Bush style thinking.

There are many roads and for Cuba or any country

Socialist does NOT equal independent AND
Capitalist does NOT equal colonized.

Broaden your mind buddy, the world is not so black & white.

[tidy_bowl]

27. Twisted logic...

.....when is a dictatorship free? How can you possibly rationalize oppression and loss of liberty because it may lead somewhere you don't like? Is that what freedom is for? It is an abomination that this person is being prosecuted for free speech. But I guess if it isn't your speech that is threatened than it is merely an inconvenience, the end justifies the means, blah, blah. I will never understand the thought process that turns free speech into hate speech. All speech should be protected especially the speech you hate.

What's that I hear, Voltaire is spinning in his grave right now.

[Unvanguard]

48. So into which category does, say, Mugabe fall?

Just because a regime doesn't accede to the neoliberal capitalist order doesn't mean it's worth defending (or that it's socialist or independent, for that matter.)

[paulk]

86. that's an absurd argument

bet, then again, you're the poster that thought Mugabe was just one swell fellow...

[slackmaster]

4. I love the names in this story!

Gorki Aguila, Geriatric Central Committee, and Porno Para Ricardo for the win!

How can I get charged with "pre-crime social dangerousness"?

[davidinalameda]

7. where are the Castro apologists?

I'm sure they'll try and smear this guy and say it's fault that he's being tried

[Marrah_G]

12. Wait for it.......wait for it........

They just haven't spotted the word "Cuban" yet

[Zorro]

36. The pro-Castro apologists are keeping a low profile on this topic

Lest they reveal themselves to the greater audience reading this thread, which could affect perceptions of their related pro-Chavez support in future threads.

[Better Believe It]

59. Have You Noticed Any Right-Wing Cold War Apologists Lurking About?

[Zorro]

62. Nope

[Billy Burnett]

64. LOL

:rofl:

[Zorro]

66. Billy, Billy, Billy...

What are you, 10 years old? I don't know anyone that's achieved puberty that would go by the name "Billy".

In any case, you're showing a foolish lack of maturity by attempting to be insulting; that's a course of action that I wouldn't recommend.

But don't let my sage advice stop you.

[bitchkitty]

78. That's typical.

When someone points out the obvious, you respond with an attack on his maturity. You respond with a snide attack that has nothing to do with what Billy pointed out with his graphic of a mirror, and what Billy pointed out is what many of us are thinking.

A picture is worth a thousand words...

[Zorro]

85. Got some not-so-late-breaking news for you, bitchkitty

My opinion regarding Cuba is shared by the Democratic presidential nominee. Phony Democrats that worship Castro must really hate that.

So are you also going to label Barack Obama a right-wing, Cold War apologist? I'm guessing that you would have to, since it would be hypocritical if you didn't.

And I know that pro-Castro sycophants would never demonstrate any hypocrisy in their political views.

[bitchkitty]

93. Anyone who has anything positive to

say about Cuba is a "phony Castro apologist" or a "pro-Castro sycophant". You always say the same things. If the thread's about Venezuela, substitue Chavez for Castro - same thing. You could sign up with any pseud anywhere and post your garbage propaganda, and I would recognize you.

[Zorro]

95. Don't want to answer the question, do you?

My opinion about Cuba is shared by Barack Obama. Is he a right-wing Cold War apologist?

Pro-Castro, pro-Chavez, pro-FARC supporters certainly don't hesitate labeling anyone critical of these people as right-wing fascists, but apparently don't like getting a taste of their own medicine.

Since St. Hugo has declared his intention to follow in fearless leader Fidel's footsteps, it's hardly surprising that they both earn the same criticisms.

Truth hurts, doesn't it? And boo hoo hoo if you don't like having your narrow perspective of world events challenged.

[tkmorris]

96. Ummm. You go by "Zorro"

I think "Billy" is far more grown-up than "Zorro". Call me crazy.

[Zorro]

97. Ummm. Obviously you don't know Spanish

But I will admit that "Billy" is demonstrating more common sense than you.

"Billy" apparently realized there is no point in further provocation.

[Billy Burnett]

100. You've got that right. There's no point in discussion with you.

All you've got is ages old shop worn cold war fear mongering and red baiting feigning as discussion. Not to mention your near constant stream of insults and ad hominem attacks.

I think a good description of your 'discussion' style is, at best, puerile.

[Zorro]

101. I stand corrected

Apparently you don't have enough common sense to avoid getting snotty.

My opinion is the same as Barack Obama's regarding Cuba. Does that make him a right-wing Cold War apologist?

C'mon, "Billy", how about answering the question? Or is that too "puerile" a discussion topic for you?

[Zorro]

111. Still waiting for your response, Billy

My opinion is the same as Barack Obama's regarding Cuba. Does that make him a right-wing Cold War apologist?

It's a simple question. Gonna respond, or are you one of those that just squawk and run?

[Billy Burnett]

112. Please post Obama's opinion on Cuba if you want engagement.

Then post yours. That way I can fairly compare and contrast the details, if you want an answer.

[Zorro]

113. Here ya go

From a recent speech, as if you didn't already know.

<snip>

"...Throughout my entire life, there has been injustice in Cuba. Never, in my lifetime, have the people of Cuba known freedom. Never, in the lives of two generations of Cubans, have the people of Cuba known democracy. This is the terrible and tragic status quo that we have known for half a century - of elections that are anything but free or fair; of dissidents locked away in dark prison cells for the crime of speaking the truth. I won't stand for this injustice, you won't stand for this injustice, and together we will stand up for freedom in Cuba...."

"...It's time for more than tough talk that never yields results. It's time for a new strategy. There are no better ambassadors for freedom than Cuban Americans. That's why I will immediately allow unlimited family travel and remittances to the island. It's time to let Cuban Americans see their mothers and fathers, their sisters and brothers. It's time to let Cuban American money make their families less dependent upon the Castro regime.

I will maintain the embargo. It provides us with the leverage to present the regime with a clear choice: if you take significant steps toward democracy, beginning with the freeing of all political prisoners, we will take steps to begin normalizing relations. That's the way to bring about real change in Cuba - through strong, smart and principled diplomacy..."

<snip>

You can read the transcript at: http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2008/05/23/14/Obama_Speech.source.prod_affiliate.56.pdf

I also agree with his opinion about Chavez, too.

[Billy Burnett]

114. If you agree with this 100%, then ...

... like Obama, you continue to support a 47+ year old failed tactic.

[flamingdem]

115. I agree with Obama on most things but NOT on Cuba

He is being hipocritical and I hope it's just for the election.

In this case I found myself appreciating points made by Fidel in the New Yorker:

Here it is:

The empire’s hypocritical politics

IT would be dishonest of me to remain silent after hearing the speech Obama delivered on the afternoon of May 23 at the Cuban American National Foundation created by Ronald Reagan. I listened to his speech, as I did McCain’s and Bush’s. I feel no resentment towards him, for he is not responsible for the crimes perpetrated against Cuba and humanity. Were I to defend him, I would do his adversaries an enormous favor. I have therefore no reservations about criticizing him and about expressing my points of view on his words frankly.

What were Obama’s statements?

"Throughout my entire life, there has been injustice and repression in Cuba. Never, in my lifetime, have the people of Cuba known freedom. Never, in the lives of two generations of Cubans, have the people of Cuba known democracy. (…) This is the terrible and tragic status quo that we have known for half a century – of elections that are anything but free or fair (…) I won't stand for this injustice, you won't stand for this injustice, and together we will stand up for freedom in Cuba," he told annexationists, adding: "It's time to let Cuban American money make their families less dependent upon the Castro regime. (…) I will maintain the embargo."

The content of these declarations by this strong candidate to the U.S. presidency spares me the work of having to explain the reason for this reflection.

José Hernandez, one of the Cuban American National Foundation directors whom Obama praises in his speech, was none other than the owner of the Caliber-50 automatic rifle, equipped with telescopic and infrared sights, which was confiscated, by chance, along with other deadly weapons while being transported by sea to Venezuela, where the Foundation had planned to assassinate the writer of these lines at an international meeting on Margarita, in the Venezuelan state of Nueva Esparta.

Pepe Hernández’ group wanted to return to the pact with Clinton, betrayed by Mas Canosa’s clan, who secured Bush’s electoral victory in 2000 through fraud, because the latter had promised to assassinate Castro, something they all happily embraced. These are the kinds of political tricks inherent to the United States’ decadent and contradictory system.

Presidential candidate Obama’s speech may be formulated as follows: hunger for the nation, remittances as charitable hand-outs and visits to Cuba as propaganda for consumerism and the unsustainable way of life behind it.

How does he plan to address the extremely serious problem of the food crisis? The world’s grains must be distributed among human beings, pets and fish, the latter of which are getting smaller every year and more scarce in the seas that have been over-exploited by large trawlers which no international organization has been able to halt. Producing meat from gas and oil is no easy feat. Even Obama overestimates technology’s potential in the fight against climate change, though he is more conscious of the risks and the limited margin of time than Bush. He could seek the advice of Gore, who is also a democrat and is no longer a candidate, as he is aware of the accelerated pace at which global warming is advancing. His close political rival Bill Clinton, who is not running for the presidency, an expert on extra-territorial laws like the Helms-Burton and Torricelli Acts, can advise him on an issue like the blockade, which he promised to lift and never did.

What did he say in his speech in Miami, this man who is doubtless, from the social and human points of view, the most progressive candidate to the U.S. presidency? "For two hundred years," he said, "the United States has made it clear that we won't stand for foreign intervention in our hemisphere. But every day, all across the Americas, there is a different kind of struggle --not against foreign armies, but against the deadly threat of hunger and thirst, disease and

despair. That is not a future that we have to accept --not for the child in

Port au Prince or the family in the highlands of Peru. We can do better. We

must do better. (…) We cannot ignore suffering to our south, nor stand for the globalization of the empty stomach." A magnificent description of imperialist globalization: the globalization of empty stomachs! We ought to thank him for it. But, 200 years ago, Bolivar fought for Latin American unity and, more than 100 years ago, Martí gave his life in the struggle against the annexation of Cuba by the United States. What is the difference between what Monroe proclaimed and what Obama proclaims and resuscitates in his speech two centuries later?

"I will reinstate a Special Envoy for the Americas in my White House who will work with my full support. But we'll also expand the Foreign Service, and open more consulates in the neglected regions of the Americas. We'll expand the Peace Corps, and ask more young Americans to go abroad to deepen the trust and the ties among our people," he said near the end, adding: "Together, we can choose the future over the past." A beautiful phrase, for it attests to the idea, or at least the fear, that history makes figures what they are and not all the way around.

Today, the United States has nothing of the spirit behind the Philadelphia declaration of principles formulated by the 13 colonies that rebelled against English colonialism. Today, they are a gigantic empire undreamed of by the country’s founders at the time. Nothing, however, was to change for the natives and the slaves. The former were exterminated as the nation expanded; the latter continued to be auctioned at the marketplace —men, women and children—for nearly a century, despite the fact that "all men are born free and equal", as the Declaration of Independence affirms. The world’s objective conditions favored the development of that system.

In his speech, Obama portrays the Cuban Revolution as anti-democratic and lacking in respect for freedom and human rights. It is the exact same argument which, almost without exception, U.S. administrations have used again and again to justify their crimes against our country. The blockade, in and of itself, is an act of genocide. I don’t want to see U.S. children inculcated with those shameful values.

An armed revolution in our country might not have been needed without the military interventions, Platt Amendment and economic colonialism visited upon Cuba.

The Revolution was the result of imperial domination. We cannot be accused of having imposed it upon the country. The true changes could have and ought to have been brought about in the United States. Its own workers, more than a century ago, voiced the demand for an eight-hour work shift, which stemmed from the development of productive forces.

The first thing the leaders of the Cuban Revolution learned from Martí was to believe in and act on behalf of an organization founded for the purposes of bringing about a revolution. We were always bound by previous forms of power and, following the institutionalization of this organization, we were elected by more than 90% of voters, as has become customary in Cuba, a process which does not in the least resemble the ridiculous levels of electoral participation which, many a time, as in the case of the United States, stay short of 50% of voters. No small and blockaded country like ours would have been able to hold its ground for so long on the basis of ambition, vanity, deceit or the abuse of power, the kind of power its neighbor has. To state otherwise is an insult to the intelligence of our heroic people.

I am not questioning Obama’s great intelligence, his debating skills or his work ethic. He is a talented orator and is ahead of his rivals in the electoral race. I feel sympathy for his wife and little girls, who accompany him and give him encouragement every Tuesday. It is indeed a touching human spectacle. Nevertheless, I am obliged to raise a number of delicate questions. I do not expect answers; I wish only to raise them for the record.

Is it right for the president of the United States to order the assassination of any one person in the world, whatever the pretext may be?

Is it ethical for the president of the United States to order the torture of other human beings?

Should state terrorism be used by a country as powerful as the United States as an instrument to bring about peace on the planet?

Is an Adjustment Act, applied as punishment to only one country, Cuba, in order to destabilize it, good and honorable, even when it costs innocent children and mothers their lives? If it is good, why is this right not automatically granted to Haitians, Dominicans, and other peoples of the Caribbean, and why isn’t the same Act applied to Mexicans and people from Central and South America, who die like flies against the Mexican border wall or in the waters of the Atlantic and the Pacific?

Can the United States do without immigrants, who grow vegetables, fruits, almonds and other delicacies for U.S. citizens? Who would sweep their streets, work as servants in their homes or do the worst and lowest-paid jobs?

Are crackdowns on illegal residents fair, even as they affect children born in the United States?

Are the brain-drain and the continuous theft of the best scientific and intellectual minds in poor countries moral and justifiable?

You state, as I pointed out at the beginning of this reflection, that your country had long ago warned European powers that it would not tolerate any intervention in the hemisphere, reiterating that this right be respected while demanding the right to intervene anywhere in the world with the aid of hundreds of military bases and naval, aerial and spatial forces distributed across the planet. I ask: is that the way in which the United States expresses its respect for freedom, democracy and human rights?

Is it fair to stage pre-emptive attacks on sixty or more dark corners of the world, as Bush calls them, whatever the pretext may be?

Is it honorable and sane to invest millions and millions of dollars in the military industrial complex, to produce weapons that can destroy life on earth several times over?

Before judging our country, you should know that Cuba, with its education, health, sports, culture and sciences programs, implemented not only in its own territory but also in other poor countries around the world, and the blood that has been shed in acts of solidarity towards other peoples, in spite of the economic and financial blockade and the aggression of your powerful country, is proof that much can be done with very little. Not even our closest ally, the Soviet Union, was able to achieve what we have.

The only form of cooperation the United States can offer other nations consist in the sending of military professionals to those countries. It cannot offer anything else, for it lacks a sufficient number of people willing to sacrifice themselves for others and offer substantial aid to a country in need (though Cuba has known and relied on the cooperation of excellent U.S. doctors). They are not to blame for this, for society does not inculcate such values in them on a massive scale.

We have never subordinated cooperation with other countries to ideological requirements. We offered the United States our help when Hurricane Katrina lashed the city of New Orleans. Our internationalist medical brigade bears the glorious name of Henry Reeve, a young man, born in the United States, who fought and died for Cuba’s sovereignty in our first war of independence.

Our Revolution can mobilize tens of thousands of doctors and health technicians. It can mobilize an equally vast number of teachers and citizens, who are willing to travel to any corner of the world to fulfill any noble purpose, not to usurp people’s rights or take possession of raw materials.

The good will and determination of people constitute limitless resources that cannot be kept and would not fit in the vault of a bank. They cannot spring from the hypocritical politics of an empire.



Fidel Castro Ruz

May 25, 2008

10:35 p.m.

Translated by ESTI

[Zorro]

117. So you're labeling Obama a right-wing, Cold War apologist also

Got it.

[Billy Burnett]

118. Nope. You are claiming that I am.

As usual. Distortions and attacks feigning as discussion.

I simply don't support 47+ year old proven failed policy.

[Zorro]

124. Well, lets apply some logic here

Your original implication: Zorro's position = right wing Cold War apologist.

However: Zorro's position = Obama's position.

Therefore by substition, your implication equals: Obama's position = right wing Cold War apologist.

But you now assert: Obama's position /= right wing Cold War apologist.

So if that's the case, then Zorro's position /= right wing Cold War apologist, and your original assertion was false.

So you can either apologize, or be revealed to be a hypocritical dumbass.

What's it going to be, Billy?

[Billy Burnett]

125. Big difference.

Obama hasn't been posting ignorant nonsense here like you have been doing on so many Cuba threads, nor has he posted here calling others 'Castro apologists' or 'commies' etc etc.

Sorry, even though you agree with Obama's position on continuing 47+ years of proven failed policy, I don't really consider you and Obama to be political equals, and I'm not interested in pursuing your sophistry. Call me whatever puerile name that you will. I don't give a rat's ass what you think.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flamingdem]

121. Some obvious pandering-hypocracy in Obama's Cuba speech:

"...Throughout my entire life, there has been injustice in Cuba.

>>>> OKAY so he was born in 1961 so he avoids addressing the injustices of the US supported Batista regime that ended in 1959.

Never, in my lifetime, have the people of Cuba known freedom. Never, in the lives of two generations of Cubans, have the people of Cuba known democracy.

>>>> At this point in time we democrats do not know if a third election will be stolen from us this year.

This is the terrible and tragic status quo that we have known for half a century - of elections that are anything but free or fair; of dissidents locked away in dark prison cells for the crime of speaking the truth. I won't stand for this injustice, you won't stand for this injustice, and together we will stand up for freedom in Cuba...."

>>>> No need to defend their wrongs here but it is important to know that US taxpayer dollars plus ex-Cubans with paramilitary involvement are all a part of funding the so-called opposition in Cuba.

"...It's time for more than tough talk that never yields results. It's time for a new strategy. There are no better ambassadors for freedom than Cuban Americans. That's why I will immediately allow unlimited family travel and remittances to the island. It's time to let Cuban Americans see their mothers and fathers, their sisters and brothers. It's time to let Cuban American money make their families less dependent upon the Castro regime.

>>>> TOTAL PANDERING to the Cuban Americans giving them the right to travel to Cuba but not other Americans. BS! Playing it safe the Bush-Clinton way.

I will maintain the embargo. It provides us with the leverage to present the regime with a clear choice: if you take significant steps toward democracy, beginning with the freeing of all political prisoners, we will take steps to begin normalizing relations. That's the way to bring about real change in Cuba - through strong, smart and principled diplomacy..."

>>>> I see they used this "clear choice" crap with China, yeah sure ... not when they can make money! (strong, smart and principled diplomacy = saving face for 47 years of a failed policy and continuing imperialistic methods ... in this case

<snip>

[Billy Burnett]

122. Since 1961 there has been injustice in every country.

As far as democracy in Cuba is concerned, obviously some research is needed ...


http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQDemocracy.html


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books

[flamingdem]

123. Obama should check out those books

I have faith that when he comes up to speed on Cuba he'll make intelligent decisions.

At this point Raul has made three offer to talk. All have been rejected.

Wait until they find out how much oil Cuba has... maybe that will do that trick!

Oh wait a minute, maybe an invasion is more efficient.

[flamingdem]

116. Here, check out Fidel's response to that Obama quote here in the New Yorker

http://www.granma.cu/ingles/2008/mayo/lun26/Reflections-26may.html

[gorbal]

77. wrong actually

he was fined and set free....(I still don't trust any news sources on cuba these days, except maybe Democracy Now)

[Billy Burnett]

79. That is exactly why the US gov travel ban on American travel to Cuba needs to end.

The same applies to the US gov denying travel visas to Cubans who want to come here to visit family or attend conferences, lectures and such.

Cuba's gov isn't doing the denying. The US gov is.

I'm pretty sure that a majority of posters here, no matter their opinion of Cuba's gov, think that the sanctions on Cuba and the US gov American travel ban should be dropped by the USA.

Here's a DU poll to back that up ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=251742&mesg_id=251742

[Lydia Leftcoast]

94. That's true--It's the U.S. government that is setting up the barriers

My church has a "sister diocese" relationship with the Diocese of Cuba, and it took us two years to get permission for the Bishop of Cuba to come visit us. Cuba had no problems letting him go; it was the U.S. government that didn't want to let him in.

[flamingdem]

104. we agree on this, you must be European, British or German nicht? nt

[Throd]

10. "Pre-Crime Social Dangerousness" is the name for my new punk band.

I'll be glad when the old guard both here and there croaks.

[Regret My New Name]

29. Yeah, that is for sure phrase I will be trying to inject somewhere...

[The Traveler]

129. Damn! I was planning on using that!

But you got there first. :toast:

[NashVegas]

13. He Kind of Looks Like the Cuban Equivalent

to this guy:



PS - I believe everything the Miami Herald writes about Cuba!

[Freddie Stubbs]

14. If you do not like the Herald, the BBC is also covering this story:

Cuba detains leading punk rocker

By Michael Voss
BBC News, Havana

The Cuban authorities have arrested one of the island's leading punk rock musicians, Gorki Aguila of band Porno Para Ricardo.

He could face charges of dangerousness, which allow the authorities to detain people who are likely to commit crimes.

According to fellow band members, he was picked up by police at his home in Havana on Monday as the group were preparing to record their latest album.

The group's lyrics are often critical of life on the communist island.

more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7583775.stm

[cobalt1999]

17. Wow, George Bush would be proud of this...

"...allow the authorities to detain people who are likely to commit crimes."

Not commit crimes, but LIKELY to commit crimes. Shit I hope the republicans don't see this, it might give them ideas.

[redqueen]

119. The BBC also printed the lies about Chavez 'stepping down' after the coup.

So... not that their word isn't good on this one... just a word of caution.

[Dutch]

35. They don't even remotely look like one another.

And there's certainly no reason to believe that they have similar political sympathies.

[Freddie Stubbs]

37. By the looks of his shirt, he certainly isn't a fan of the Castro regime

But that doesn't make him are right-winger.

[Unvanguard]

46. Indeed, a substantial number of Google results for "Porno Para Ricardo" are from anarchists. n/t

[mitchum]

18. He should stand trial for using such a worn out genre as punk...

C'mon, it's been over 30 years since punk was a "revolutionary, groundbreaking" form

[Crooked Moon]

23. LOL! says the guy

with the lou reed avatar.

such delicious irony i have not tasted in ages.

thank you for the laugh.

[mitchum]

24. Lou was the original punk, but he didn't embrace the rigid orthodoxies of "punk rock"

that's the difference between poets/pioneers and "punk rockers" :)

[Codeine]

40. Most punks don't embrace those either,

just the shitty ones that most people have heard of.

[Psephos]

30. Yep, dead as a doornail...

I heard jazz is worn out and used up, too.

Don't EVEN get me started about classical...

Yet somehow each genre continues to sell millions of albums every year.

Punk is alive and well. Better in some ways than ever. But you have to be a fan to know that. Each to his/her own.

:hi:

[Codeine]

39. Baloney.

Punk is still as vital an art form as it was thirty years ago, and even more so in an environment where dissent is quashed and alternative thought is punishable.

[mitchum]

44. Oh,punk is still hanging out,but it's just really got no where to go...

Look,I don't begrudge some 18 year old the opportunity to be all fast, dissonant and angry with some friends (I did the same and had a great time),but I'm also not going to pretend that is is the real voice of disaffected youth. It is not. We know what current genre is the contemporary voice of disaffected youth...and it's not punk.
Punk rock is ultimately a stylistic dead end. When its practitioners advance their work beyond the strictures of punk, it becomes something else. And no...not "post punk" (a phrase almost as stupid as "punk rock")

[Bucky]

21. Double plus bad, Citizen Raul. I thought you were going to be a nicer Big Brother

If I didn't know any better, I'd almost think that communism is necessarily an evil form of government.

[killbotfactory]

26. Even Gorki wants nothing to do with CANF

According to Miami Herald, the Cuban American National Foundation had offered to provide Gorki an attorney for his trial, but knowing that Gorki wants to be apolitical, his band members refused to accept funding from political groups.

http://www.freemuse.org/sw29621.asp

[davidinalameda]

31. so being apolitical is a rejection of CANF?

interesting attempt to make his rejection of funds from the group seem like it's a rejection of the group itself

[Freddie Stubbs]

32. Accepting support from anti-Castro exiles will only land him in more legal trouble

[killbotfactory]

50. Yeah

For the same reason that someone receiving legal help from Al Qeada would land you in trouble in the US.

[Snarkturian Clone]

33. But, but, but.... I thought Cuba was a paradise of freedom?

According to the Castro apologists, anyway.

[Billy Burnett]

67. Can you direct us to ONE post that claims that Cuba is a "paradise of freedom"?

I have seen no such posts here on DU. Maybe I missed it/them. Can you please show us some examples of this? Otherwise, I think you're full of (sh)it. I will retract and apologize when you post a link to a DU post/thread that makes the claim that Cuba is a paradise.

[Snarkturian Clone]

69. Retraction please

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2729086&mesg_id=2729479

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=405&topic_id=4445&mesg_id=4457

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=257389&mesg_id=259867

[Billy Burnett]

70. OK. A conditional retraction...

The first two links have no such comment in them

The third link to a post by Mika makes a conditional comparison of Cuba to Guatemala and El Salvador (all of which Mika has experience in).

I'll give you a conditional retraction though, simply because the word paradise was used. But still, there is no claim that Cuba is a paradise of freedom.

Anyway, it is a stretch to claim that there are "Castro apologists" in those threads based on commentary like that (when read in context of the entire discussion).

The 3rd thread is worth a good re-read by DUers.

[Snarkturian Clone]

71. Fair enough NT

[wvbygod]

34. same old dictatorship in cuba is alive and sick as ever

How free speech can still be forbidden there is beyond my comprehension. The country is
being run by childish morons that are dangerous.

[Hannah Bell]

38. unlike the us.

[robcon]

127. Exactly, Hanna

When the Dixie Chicks said they were ashamed of Bush (as we all are) there was no government reaction, no arrest, no government threats of jail.

Thank God we're not in Cuba.

[Billy Burnett]

131. Dixie Chicks: not arrested. Gorki: not arrested (not counting his drug arrest).

Now if the Dixie Chicks were blasting profanities at a high level and the neighbors complained they (or the home owner) might get a fine for disturbing the peace - just like Gorki did in that situation.

[SpikeTss]

74. Sorry, but the words old and dangerous triggered something:

How free speech can still be forbidden there is beyond my comprehension. The country is
being run by childish morons that are dangerous.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/30/7974/

Police Arrest Anti-War Protester, 80, At Mall

An 80-year-old church deacon was removed from the Smith Haven Mall yesterday in a wheelchair and arrested by police for refusing to remove a T-shirt protesting the Iraq War.

Police said that Don Zirkel, of Bethpage, was disturbing shoppers at the Lake Grove mall with his T-shirt, which had what they described as "graphic anti-war images." Zirkel, a deacon at Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal in Wyandanch, said his shirt had the death tolls of American military personnel and Iraqis - 4,000 and 1 million - and the words "Dead" and "Enough." The shirt also has three blotches resembling blood splatters.

...

As Zirkel was being wheeled to the police car, the crowd chanted "We shall not be moved!" Moments later, they moved; police and mall security had ordered them off the property.

See also:

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=v7MK_uvsOMo

http://www.democracynow.org/2003/3/6/new_york_man_arrested_at_shopping

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. Of course, there are places in the world where he would be quietly

"disappeared" for writing anti-government songs.

Am I defending suppression of freedom of speech? No. But in previous years, the U.S. praised as "bulwarks against Communism" countries where dissidents didn't even receive trials but were simply dragged off the street, tortured to death, and dumped by the side of the road somewhere.

[Codeine]

42. And we on the Left spoke out against those regimes.

We should do the same here.

[Seeking Serenity]

43. And so Cuba is to be praised and not condemned because

they are going to give this punker a TRIAL before they throw him jail for daring to critize the government.

WTG Cuba, you paragon of liberal values, you.

[Better Believe It]

76. Condemed For What? The Punk Rocker Thinks Gitmo & Bush Are Wonderful!

Who's sponsoring him?

Oh .... we already know the answer to that question.

That great champion of freedom and democratic rights .... George W. Bush!

[struggle4progress]

45. Dissident Cuban rocker fined $28, freed

By WILL WEISSERT – 6 minutes ago

HAVANA (AP) — A Cuban punk rocker known for his raunchy lyrics criticizing Fidel Castro was convicted of public disorder Friday ... Following a two-hour trial, the court ordered Gorki Aguila to pay 600 pesos (US$28) and released the 39-year-old singer ... Aguila was previously arrested in 2005 on drug charges ... http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hRhnwx_62xjZB-8h-kq9fYmuCNfQD92SAPG80

[IndianaGreen]

49. Got better treatment than the Dixie Chicks

We sure got a lot of room to talk about freedom and democracy!

[killbotfactory]

51. Or Jello Biafra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jello_Biafra#Obscenity_prosecution

but that was over 20 years ago. ancient history.

[ohio2007]

53. or Milli Vanilli

and the media backlash
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milli_Vanilli

of freedom of non speech

lol

[Seeking Serenity]

52. Really? I didn't know the Dixie Chicks were arrested by the government

and fined any amount of money for their speech.

I guess I missed those stories.

I swear, I hate when DUers (or anyone else for that matter) excuse the bad behaviour of one by trying tto deflect attention away by saying, "But the US does bad things, too."

[IndianaGreen]

75. And after 8 years of MSM and Bush regime lies, you still believe them.

The only human rights abuses in Cuba are taking place at the US Guantanamo concentration camp.

[NashVegas]

134. No, They Just Had Their Careers Destroyed By Bush's Brown Shirts and Storm Troopers

Totally different thing.

[Freddie Stubbs]

57. When were they arrested?

:shrug:

[ohio2007]

54. $28 = two months wages ? will he be allowed to recoup it in concert s on The Isle of Youth ?

or is he only allowed to sing Cuban national recognized music in front of the public?

He had his 15 minutes of fame.

[Billy Burnett]

56. Not 2 months wages for him. He plays clubs and gets well paid for gigs.

This is a great PR move for him. He has played the media well, using the US paid propaganda network to his advantage. He and his band are international stars now.

Just as Marilyn Manson used arrests at various clubs in various states as a PR tactic also.

[Billy Burnett]

55. So, it turns out he is on probation for a drug conviction.

Miami Herald reports that no press was allowed into the "closed" hearing, but the AP story states otherwise.

The anti Cuba policy supporters here are quick to use the second hand hearsay of US paid for "dissidents" as fact. All of this arrested for "dangerousness' and "pre crime" is merely the wordsmithing used by the minute RW US paid "dissident" movements that the US MSM pays singular attention to.

Turns out that he was arrested for continually disturbing the peace in their neighborhood where they rehearse very loud and cursing and swearing using their PA.

The same thing has happened to me and my band when we have rehearsed too loud for our neighbors in the past. Cops came and warned us. We resumed. Cops returned and arrested us. $250 fine for disturbing the peace. Luckily, none of us were on probation for drug convictions or else who knows what the outcome would be.

Please DUers, fight for your own freedom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO4X2Yy0oPs

Cubans can and will do so for themselves.

[AlphaCentauri]

84. Agree

[Unvanguard]

47. Hasta la victoria siempre.

:eyes:

[flamingdem]

58. NEWSBREAK: He was charged $30 by the Cuban govt. and that was the end of it nt

[Better Believe It]

61. What A Lying Sack Of Sh*t Gorki Aguila Is!

"Gorki Aguila, 39, heads Porno Para Ricardo -- Porn for Ricardo -- a 10-year-old, punk-rock group that regularly denounces the government in its songs.

But Aguila's website says he is apolitical, accepts no funding from political groups, and disavows the use of his music for political purposes."

Of course his website is apolitical and his music isn't used for political purposes. That claim is total bull sh*t! If you believe that Aguila is apolitical, he can sell you the Brooklyn Bridge and perhaps even talk you into voting for John McCain for president!

Now who's payroll do you think Aguila is on? Let's try and figure that one out.

It's real difficult!

He's being defended by the extreme right-wing Cuban American National Foundation.

They are providing him with one of their slick attorneys who has never defended any of Bush's victims held at Gitmo.

In case you didn't know, what Bush has done at Gitmo is just fine with the Cuban American National Foundation. They don't think any civil liberties or human rights violations have occurred at Gitmo. And you won't see Gorki Aguila and his Porn for Ricardo group perform any songs critical of Gitmo and/or the Bush governments other attacks on human rights and civil liberties. Not if Aguila wants to maintain the political support of some of the most right-wing extremist and anti-democratic outfits in the United States.

Oh .... and let's not forget Aguila's love for interviews with "TV Martí, the U.S.-funded anti-Castro news broadcast".

From just the information presented by the right-wing media on Aguila, I would have as much difficulty defending his activities as I would an activist in the Ku Klux Klan or Nazi Party.

So I'd like to know if the Bush government is also funding and supporting in any way Aguila's political activities in Cuba? If the U.S. government is, wouldn't that make Aguila an agent of a foreign government? If he could, Bush would love to pin the "medal of freedom" on that a-hole!

The government should not have arrested him. However, I would like the Cuban government to conduct an open and objective investigation to determine if this right-wing character has been funded and promoted by U.S. intelligence agencies as part of a Bush Cuban de-stabilization operation.

Cubans certainly have the right to know about and the right to defend themselves from such foreign secret operations.

Does everyone agree with that?

[INDIA]

You think he might be US funded, Therefore he is US backed and funded. Gotcha.

Prove it. You claim that he's part of a foreign secret operation...because he's anti-Castro. That's the height of stupidity.

Congratulations on the Olympics by the way! Now I guess its right back to cracking Tibetan "terrorist" skulls huh? Good luck with that!

By the way, has your opinion changed on that lying "Dalai Lama dude"?

[INDIA]

80. You think he might be US funded, Therefore he is US backed and funded. Gotcha.

Prove it. You claim that he's part of a foreign secret operation...because he's anti-Castro. That's the height of stupidity.

Congratulations on the Olympics by the way! Now I guess its right back to cracking Tibetan "terrorist" skulls huh? Good luck with that!

By the way, has your opinion changed on that lying "Dalai Lama dude"?

[Better Believe It]

82. What Company Does He Keep?

Who supports him?

We know the answer to that and so do you!

[INDIA]

83. Does he hang out with paid Chinese government shills?

"We know the answer to that and so do you!"

Why don't you enlighten me? I'm waiting...

[Better Believe It]

88. He Does Not: He Hangs Out With Pro-Bush Neocons And Their Apologists

[INDIA]

89. Really? How do you know that? Which neo-cons is this guy hanging out with in Cuba?

Still waiting on some sort of proof to back up your absurd allegations. You don't have any. I don't blame you though. It's probably hard to do internet research from behind the "Great Firewall of China." Google "Tieneman Square Massacre" or "Falun Gong" in China. What comes up?

By all indications this is a non-story. Some guy with an opinion played music really loud and got fined for it. End of story.

Claiming that he is hanging out with neo-cons and backed by a US funded conspiracy makes you look...

[INDIA]

91. You typed this sentence on another thread about the Dalai Lama....

"Do you have a credible link for that allegation "


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3044051

Follow your own advice, post your "credible link." Don't be a coward and dissapear.

[INDIA]

87. Well? What's "the answer"??? Helooooooooooooooo?

Where'd you go?

:rofl:

[Better Believe It]

90. The Cuban Government Needs To Investigate Aguila

From just the information presented by the right-wing media on Aguila, I would have as much difficulty defending his activities as I would an activist in the Ku Klux Klan or Nazi Party.

So I'd like to know if the Bush government is also funding and supporting in any way Aguila's political activities in Cuba? If the U.S. government is, wouldn't that make Aguila an agent of a foreign government? If he could, Bush would love to pin the "medal of freedom" on that a-hole!

The government should not have arrested him. However, I would like the Cuban government to conduct an open and objective investigation to determine if this right-wing character has been funded and promoted by U.S. intelligence agencies as part of a Bush Cuban de-stabilization operation.

Cubans certainly have the right to know about and the right to defend themselves from such foreign secret operations.

First, do you agree that Aguila should be investigated to determine if he in fact is being used in traditional CIA intelligence operations designed to undermine the Cuban government?

Second, do you honestly believe that the CIA and other Bush government spy agencies are not engaged in secret operations inside Cuba?

[INDIA]

92. My god, are all 1.3 billion of you this insane? Terrifying. n/t

[Better Believe It]

109. Your're Not From These Parts? Our Population Is About 305 Million

[INDIA]

110. You're Chinese. 1.3 billion.

How much does a paid Chinese blogger make in yuan anyway?

[Billy Burnett]

63. Protesters raided by authorities.

I don't hear the CANF decrying this activity by the authoritarian government's jackboots.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/30/rnc.protest/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

[Better Believe It]

65. And They Won't Object To Human Rights Violations At Gitmo!

[INDIA]

81. Or in Tibet, or Sudan, or Zimbabwe. nt

[bitchkitty]

68. Talk about a non-story.

Certainly nothing to get your knickers in a twist over - unless of course you trust the Miami Herald to report the whole truth...

[flamingdem]

98. Gorky is a darling of the academic world but he's not associated with the Miami Mafia

I am not a Gorky supporter especially but he is a risk taker and knows how to work the media pretty well.

I don't see him as any kind of US sponsored plant and I doubt the Cuban government believes this. He is
just an irritant to them so they slapped him with a fine this time. He was jailed previously on some
probably trumped up drug charges.

Cuba is loosening up. My opinion is that they oppress their citizens in terms of free speech but that they
are not evil and they learn from their mistakes. In this case they overreacted to Gorky but came to their
senses.

As Cuba creeps out of its isolation and poverty things will improve for the citizens. Due to oil discoveries
this may happen sooner rather than later.

Of course Obama winning will speed the process of normalization. All will benefit.

[Billy Burnett]

99. He might or might not have a close relationship w/the CANF. But he sure used their network ....

... to propel the propaganda.

He was never arrested. He was taken to the police station to determine if he had violated the terms of his probation for a drug conviction. Turns out that he was released on a warning regarding his probation and fined $28 for disturbing the peace because he lives in the house - the rest of the band was left alone and not fined because it wasn't their house.

Thanks to the Miamicubano professional "exiles" and the RW Cubaphobic press he is a superstar now.

All he needs to do is take advantage of the US's ridiculous 'Wet Foot / Dry Foot' policy and the US's Cuban Adjustment Act, by coming here by an illegal smuggling op OR a legal immigration visa (like the VAST majority of Cuban immigrants have come legally to the US) and then he'll have it made in the shade, especially in Miami - if he plays his cards right.

==

Also, Cuba is not isolated. Millions of people travel there every year, and Cuba had good trade relations with most of the rest of the world. Cuba is acclaimed around the world for it's international aid and education programs to the needy.

It's the US gov that is isolating Americans from Cuba. Your statement demonstrates just that.


:hi:

[robcon]

102. If all you've got, Billy is alleged guilt-by-association, your illogic is showing.

You seem desperate not to criticize the arrest of the guy on Kafka-esque charges. Deflection is your only game, and it sure doesn't win over many DUers, IMO.

[Billy Burnett]

106. Huh? Where did I do that?

Now, if you mean guilt by the association of punk musicians with their loud amps and PA system, yes. But otherwise, I did nothing of the sort. Maybe you have me confused with another poster?

He claims he has disassociated himself from Miami exile political movements. Maybe so, but the Miami exiles and some of their media minions drummed up a $28 fine for a punk band playing too loud in a residential neighborhood to a monumental abrogation of his rights by Castro's police. This bullshit got publicity that most artists and musicians seek.

Oh yeah ... despite the repetition of the concocted story line, he wasn't arrested.

He got a fine for a code violation: disturbing the peace.

Interesting that DU's Cubaphobes continue to deflect attention away from the fact that, even though on probation, he wasn't arrested.

[flamingdem]

103. How did he use CANF's network? The blogs describe the case but I do not

see anything more. Please direct me to this information or tell me how you came to this conclusion.

Gorky's "super stardom" doesn't seem to require the right wing bloggers or Miami exiles. Many who are
left leaning academics have picked up his cause because he is so blatant and colorful.

Being in favor of freedom of speech in Cuba is very tricky. That does NOT mean that you want anything
to do with CANF. Some Cubans do not understand how an association or guilt by association with
CANF can undermine them with potential supporters on the outside.

In my opinion Gorky will never take advantage of the Cuban Adjustment Act (wet foot / dry foot). He
is 100% Cubano and does better in Cuba than he would outside.

His point is exactly to stand strong and fight from within.

Here's the scoop. When musicians leave Cuba the CANF initially welcomes them as does Willy Chirino's
foundation. After that if they trash Fidel they can get on TV sometimes. After that they are forgotten.

[Billy Burnett]

105. I am in Miami right now, and this story was going FULL rotation until the $28 fine was revealed.

Been here for the last few weeks (I live here, but work all over the damned place).

All of Miami's exile radio was going strong with this story as yet another example of the brutal repression undertaken by Castro's goons. (Laughable considering they were going apeshit over a $28 fine for blasting profane punk music in the middle of a complaining neighborhood.)

Same goes for the exile run local TV & local anti Castro cable shows.

I'm assuming that it was probably these entities who catapulted the propaganda via McClatchy's Miami Herald/ el Nuevo Herald to the AP, BBC, CNN, etc, in some kind of fabricated news release in this case.

You're correct with your comment about this story not being the sole domain of RW bloggers/media/exiles. There were "left leaning academics" latching onto this story with the same false assumptions as the RW exiles. The left latching onto the fabrications and talking points and using the word smithing of the right isn't uncommon, especially when discussing a common "enemy" - like Cuba.

Americans know jack shit about Cuba. Mostly RW cold war fear mongering and BS. Not many have been there. There is a virtual Cuba news blackout in the US, unless the stories are ginned-up to comply with the US gov party line (much like the media stenography on Iraq and Iran). Easy to fool people who don't know much about it and 101st keyboard divisions will back up the US gov party line with ad hominem attacks, red baiting, and insults.

But then, there are some here who have been to Cuba. Some of us many times. Some DUers have family in Cuba, some have lived there. Some of us have worked there. Some have close friends there, some are professionals and some are just every day Cubans, with whom we communicate regularly. Some of us have been there during elections, including a DUer who was there for the entire lengthy election process there.

[Judi Lynn]

107. Billy, Jose Diaz Balart, brother of right-wing loon extremists, Congressmen Lincoln and Mario

who are good pals of the _{George W. Bush} and _Jeb, has total access to all media in Miami, right?

He has worked at Telemundo, anchored for CBS, has a major role at Univision (owned by right-wing Cuban-Venezuelan opposition media magnate (and good fishing buddy of _Bush #41)), connections with broadcast UPI, and undoubtedly is completely plugged in to Radio and TV Martis.

It finally is all so squalid, this scheming, dealing, managing to control public perception on all Cuba information while lying their asses off to the American public.

As you bring out, the only way to get past this Baloney Curtain is to allow the American public to go to Cuba to find out for ourselves. Then we won't be sitting on our asses, swallowing every bit of pathetic drivel these clowns hatch up and pass off as "the truth" about Cuba.

Thank goodness some of us started seeing through the lies long ago, and it's truly a charge getting clean information from people who have been there extensively and know exactly what they're talking about.

What someone gibbered to you upthread was comical. You've never been one too invested in trying to persuade anyone, as long as I've been aware of your comments, and that's a long time.

The very best thing any real DU'er can do is start researching for him/herself any and every chance possible. Then they won't have to wonder if one poster or any other is on the level, they'll KNOW!

Your comments are always appreciated, and honored.

[redqueen]

120. "The very best thing any real DU'er can do is start researching for him/herself "

That goes for everyone, everywhere really.

[flamingdem]

133. Gorki made it to the NY Times .. see story on the thread

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Traveler]

130. Shhhhh!!!! If Bushie hears about this before he leaves office

he will write "pre-crime social dangerousness" into the Patriot Act somewhere! OolKay It-Ay, Droogs!

Trav

[flamingdem]

132. GORKI MAKES IT TO THE NEW YORK TIMES !!!!!!!!!!!!! Now he's famous ..

(edited for copyright purposes-proud patriot moderator Democratic Underground)

September 6, 2008
The Saturday Profile
From the Cuban Underground, a Punk Rocker’s Protest Reverberates
By MARC LACEY

SOME people march to protest their government. Gorki Luis Águila Carrasco, the lead singer of a Cuban punk rock group called Porno para Ricardo (“Porn for Ricardo”), vents his discontent by gyrating at a microphone, clutching an electric guitar and spewing out some of the most off-color, ear-splitting lyrics around.

Amid the string of expletives that he bellows in his underground concerts in and around Havana are bold criticisms of Fidel and Raúl Castro, the past and present leaders of the island. So outspoken has he become that the authorities recently charged him with “social dangerousness” and hauled him off to jail.

Turns out, though, he will sing again. After his detention drew international outrage, including a condemnation from the Bush administration, the Cuban authorities dropped the charge, which could have led to four years in prison. Instead they convicted him of public disorder and fined him 600 pesos, or $28 — more than a month’s salary in Cuba.

“I feel even more hate for this tyranny,” Gorki, as he is universally known, said to reporters after he was freed. He then likened his release to walking from a small jail cell into a larger one.

With a mane of curly black hair that is as wild as his persona, Gorki is by no means the only outspoken artist in Cuba. Other rebellious singers and painters, though, are more discreet when it comes to the upper crust of the Cuban leadership. They criticize the system in a way that does not get too personal.