Toyota braced for historic loss

[lastliberalintexas]

Source: BBC

Japan's biggest carmaker Toyota has forecast its first annual loss in 71 years due to plummeting sales and a surge in the value of the yen.

The firm said it expected a loss of 150bn yen (£1.1bn) in yearly operating profits - from its core operations.

Japan also posted a trade deficit of $2.5bn (£1.7bn) in November as exports fell at a record rate.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7794888.stm

---

While the rising Yen has something to do with this, the bigger reason is just that people do not have the money to buy cars. And at least this article might prove to some on this website that it's not just the lousy US carmakers- you know, the ones who employ union labor- who are suffering. Even the "golden" Honda has tried to downplay expectations over the last couple of months.

But I'm sure this is somehow still the fault of the UAW, right Shelby?

[madrchsod]

1. the world`s builder of perfect cars and trucks posted a loss

i wonder what happened? i guess they pay their workers to much money to turn a profit. since 50% of their profits come from the usa i look for toyota to cut wages from 14 to 12 an hour. of course they will expext their suppliers to cut their work force wages by the same percentage.

it`s a race to the bottom with toyota clearly in the lead

[KoKo]

2. Maybe they are hoping for some Govt. money, too. After all,

everyone else is feeding at the trough.

[madrchsod]

3. "what is good for toyota is good for the japanese economy"

where have we heard something like that before........?

[KoKo]

56. lol's..sad..

[depakid]

58. But they're nowhere near bankruptcy

nor are they whining for bailouts- unlike the perenially arrogant, shortsighted and mismanaged American automakers.

[Bake]

62. I hope you're aiming that squarely at MANAGEMENT, not labor.

Bake

[Romulox]

65. Quick: ask him if we should hand over SEVERAL TRILLION dollars to banks w/o oversight.

Then assess his opinion in the context of his support for the bailout.

[depakid]

72. Predominantly so

though it would be inaccurate to place the entire onus on any one aspect of an organization that has so stubbornly refused to adapt to changing business and economic climates- and focusing instead on narrow short term interests at the expense of sustainability.

It's not as if the current situation was unforeseeable- or that multiple warnings and red flags hadn't been raised by credible sources for years.

[Lorien]

4. When people on DU criticize "lousy US car makers", they're talking

about MANAGEMENT, NOT UAW members. I know engineers and research development managers who work for the big three; they come up with brilliant new designs-one from a Canadian plant even created a 50 mpg combustion engine 11 years ago that GM patented then SHELVED. Others came up with engine mounts, mufflers, and other parts which would never need replacing. They were all told that their superior designs would never make it to the marketplace because they were TOO superior. The big three WANT their cars to guzzle gas and spend loads of time in the shop. I'm sure many at Toyota feel the same way, but perhaps Japanese culture allows them to have a little bit more pride in their work. Who knows. But it's the MANAGEMENT-the ones begging for the government money-who have screwed over the American worker, car owner, the R&D people, the economy, the planet-everything. Everyone working under them would prefer to build the best cars in the world!

[cabluedem]

42. I dont doubt there is lots of great tech that gets shelved, but some of it would be cost prohibitive

to the retail price. Too one can make something last "forever" but that too comes with a high price tag.

[Lorien]

48. Good excuse, but it doesn't fly in these cases

the new engine would have cost no more in materials than current engines. 50MPG for a standard sedan?? Those would have sold like crazy. But the big three are in bed with big oil and they WANT their cars to break down. You'll have to buy another when they do! They make crap on purpose when they could be making the best autos money can buy for only a fraction more. It's all about SHORT TERM profits, and it's short sighted thinking like that that's killing the auto industry.

[OhioChick]

5. No job=No new car. n/t

[roseBudd]

6. Cars are an emotional purchase that many people believe reflects who they are, often a want...

and not a need. People are choosing to keep their used cars because they are worried about their jobs.

I personally don't get a new used car unless my car gets wrecked & totaled by insurance company or has only one cylinder left.

Or the driver side seat broke loose from the floor and I am now sitting in the back seat

[tomm2thumbs]

7. they'll be fine but it sure speaks ill of the economy

that even the big japanese car dealers are hurting right now

[tomm2thumbs]

8. they'll be fine but it sure speaks ill of the economy

that even the big japanese car dealers are hurting right now

[bluecollarcharlie]

9. Which is what the Detroit 3 have been saying all along.

And yet still, still in the face of the truth you people around here will not cut them any slack for being right on this one.

The cognitive dissonance around here is fucking amazing.

[Juneboarder]

10. Toyota still has my support

The last three cars I have purchased have been Toyotas and I have had the best experiences with the quality of workmanship as well as the quality of service from my local dealer.

[WriteDown]

11. Typical....

Continue to support non-union labor. At least the Japanese buy Japanese.

[Juneboarder]

15. Typical response

by someone that doesn't know or care to know my opinion. I'm a toyota guy based on my purchasing history and the fact that every American car I have purchased has been crap in comparison to the Toyotas purchased(Hondas and Nissans included...). I, at one point, had a Ford Thunderbird with not even 1000 miles on it and the engine blew. At least the Japanese care to put quality into their products for the price consumers pay.

[WriteDown]

18. Opinion?

Check facts instead. Toyota leads the industry in recalls. Anecdotal evidence from 15 years ago doesn't hold much water.

[Juneboarder]

19. So show me your facts if you challenge what I say :) nt

[WriteDown]

23. Sure....

Just go check out JD Powers.

[Juneboarder]

27. Links would be nice...

I'm searching all over http://www.jdpower.com/autos and don't find any charts relating to total recalls, however I do notice that they refer to NHTSA for their reporting info which is whom the sites I quoted got their info from as well... Please clarify your evidence :)

[WriteDown]

32. I was talking about quality for "inferior" American

manufacturers.

[Juneboarder]

25. Okay...

You haven't responded to my challenge of providing your proof of Toyota leading the auto makers in recalls, so I decided to do some simple googling see what I find.

The first site I went to shows the following three manufacturers leading the charts: Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge. All three have multiple times more recalls than Toyota.

The second site I went to had Ford as the leader in recalls for 2007 with Chrysler and Toyota behind them.

The third site I went to had Toyota in the lead of recalls for 2006 (and for the first time ever).

So, in my opinion, Toyota still has my business as I'd rather buy a car that has made the charts a few times rather than a car that has been on the list of recall leaders for several years now.

Site #1: http://www.mycarstats.com/auto_recalls/auto_recalls.asp

Site #2: http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/aug2007/bw20070810_455098.htm?chan=autos_autos+index+page_top+stories

Site #3: http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/jul2006/bw20060717_855947.htm

[WriteDown]

26. Ugh, you need to look at the years recalled....

not just how many recalls that year. Even given that, its amazing how well the "inferior" GM and Ford stack up.

[Juneboarder]

30. You said Toyota leads the industry in recalls...

I provided you links that show differently. Sorry, but you're lack of proving your numbers to me isn't changing my mind here...

[WriteDown]

31. Yep, and I was right, of course

http://www.monroenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/news_message?Category=NEWS&ThemeID=877&GroupID=234798&InReplyTo=64844

[Juneboarder]

36. Nice link; however...

this was posted in April of 2007 saying that Toyota leads in recalls on the Tundra. Please refer to my link above that is dated foru months after your article and states the following: "A faulty cruise control switch has led Ford to recall more than 10 million vehicles in eight years—a new record."

A new record... hmm.

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/aug2007/bw20070810_455098.htm?chan=autos_autos+index+page_top+stories.

[WriteDown]

37. Once again...

OVER 8 YEARS. Try searching for 2007 model recalls.

[Juneboarder]

41. 2007 Model Recalls

http://www.autorecalls.us/

Based on this website, they are affirming the following:

1. Chevrolet - 3,729,283 Recalls in 2007
2. GMC - 3,532,781 Recalls in 2007
3. Ford - 731,743 Recalls in 2007
4. Toyota - 617,136 Recalls in 2007
5. Chrysler - 412,887 Recalls in 2007

It appears Toyota is not the leader on recalls in 2007. Unless you can provide some type of link proving your case, then I'm doing debating with you, as it appears you like to talk but have nothing to back it up.

Merry Christmas! :)

[WriteDown]

45. Uh...

You're link has nothing. I'm starting to suspect you are a troll.

[Juneboarder]

52. You must be looking in a mirror my friend.

The link above brings and here again (http://www.autorecalls.us/) brings you to a page where you can click on any auto manufacturer and it will then bring you to a page that shows you each of the recalls made for that manufacturer for 2007.

My challenge, for the 3rd time requesting now, is for YOU to provide valid links of proof to your claims. No trolls here my friend.

:hi:

[doc03]

59. Here you go Toyota pickups 1995-2000 recalled

for rust (813,000) of them.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/07/toyota-extends-rust-warranty-on-older-tacoma-pickups-to-15-years/

There is a scrap yard a few miles from me, they haul several semi loads of them in every day to be crushed. I read that there are 813,000 vehicles involved in the recall, you take them in for inspection and if they can't repair them they buy them back. I read that if only 2% of them are scraped it will cost Toyota $100 million. I do give them credit they are standing behind their product, they are buying them back at 150% of book value.

[Juneboarder]

60. 813,000 over 5 years

isn't too bad considering the US American manufacturers.

[doc03]

61. That is every single Tacoma pickup they made over

a five year period. I don't think any American manufacturer had to recall or buyout every single vehicle of a model they made over a five year period. They certainly have kept this recall quiet. I keep wondering why all these Toyota pickups, some of them look like they come out of the showroom, were going to the scrap yard. One day a driver stopped at a convenience store and I asked him, that's how I found out. Like I said they are standing by their product. I own a 2006 Toyota Tacoma myself and I am wondering how it will affect my resale value..

[Juneboarder]

64. I have known about this for close to a year...

My truck has not been affected, as I don't live in an area of the country where I have to worry about snow, ice and salt on the road. I might drive it for a weekend or week period 2 or 3 times a year, but here in San Diego, the trucks aren't as affected whereas places like around the Great Lakes and Northeast where it snows quite a bit have a higher propensity for the rust issue.

As for the article you offered a link to, it says that they are extending the rust warranty on ALL trucks for 15 years; not recalling all trucks. Good attempt, however, but not true that they are recalling EVERY Toyota Truck from 1995-2000.

[WriteDown]

66. Regardless whether its a warranty or a recall...

The effect is the same. Just admit it, you will NEVER buy a car made by UAW workers. You seem to bend and twist to try to keep Toyota up on that pedestal you have them on.

[Juneboarder]

68. Let's get one thing straight.

I'm not here for you to pursuade me to buy an US American car. I like the debating going back and forth as long as the facts remain straight and one has evidence to back up what they say.

Recall and Warranty are two TOTALLY different things; and I found out about the warranty issue because my wife works for toyota.

Don't hate me for disagreeing with you. Love me for having a having a mind that makes its own decisions rather than thinking a certain way because someone tells me I should think that way. A difference in opinion is what makes things interesting and worth debating rather than demanding everyone feel the same way.

[WriteDown]

69. At least now the truth comes out...

your wife is a Toyota employee.

[Juneboarder]

70. The truth?

Sorry, I didn't know I was being questionned. The fact that my wife works at Toyota has no bearing on my decision to buy Toyotas. I have been a Toyota buyer for many years prior to her employment with Toyota, and will continue to be a loyal Toyota customer.

I didn't make any comments in this thread to change someone's mind, but to just put in my two cents. Sorry if we don't agree.

And... if you are serious about trying to change someone's mind about this topic, then I suggest you back up what you say with facts and don't come off as condescending just because a person doesn't think the same way you do. Treat others as you would want to be treated...

Peace, Love and Merry Christmas from here in San Diego!

[doc03]

74. Google Tacoma rust recall and there are numerous

websites that refer to it as a recall/buyback. Whatever you call it they are recalling them for rust and they either repair them or buy them back and scrap them.

[Juneboarder]

81. Yes...

repair or buy them backk all under warranty. And I must say that they have been extremely fair to folks with a car that is 10-15 years old and still giving them 150% of blue book value. They are truly looking for repeat customers.

[doc03]

67. I assume you found out because you got the recall

notice, but they sure keep it quiet otherwise. I asked my Toyota salesperson why all those trucks were being crushed and she played dumb. Is that all trucks such as my 2006 that get 15 years extension or all 1995-2000 trucks, if mine is covered I haven't received any notice? That extension only covers a the 95 to 2010 or the 2000 to 2015 from what I have heard. That would severely affect the resale value on a 1995 model after 2010 wouldn't it? The owners I have talked to were told to have their truck inspected and if it was OK this time they have to bring it back each year for re-inspection of course this is a salt area. I never saw a car rust worse than my parents Chevy Malibu they lived in West Palm FL at the time. They came up here on a visit and I had to change a flat tire for them. When I jacked the car up the car stayed on the ground the frame broke behind the rear wheels, when I pulled the jack out the trunk practicly hit the ground. The car was about 4 years old at the time I think.

[Juneboarder]

71. I got the notice and heard from my wife.

My wife processes warranties for Toyota, so she's on the up and up when it comes to this kind of stuff. I guess the salt water can do just as bad of a number as snow; I had always assumed snow was the worst thing possible since along with snow there's also salt on the roads. Did they say what caused the rust from happening to the Chevy, as that damage seems awfully severe... maybe sat through flooding in a hurricane?

The way I'm reading the article that was posted is that the extended warranty applies to toyotas from 1995-2000, but then again it says those are the years most affected by the rust and that previous years have the same issue... I can always ask my wife exactly what the deal is and let you know; but I do know for sure that they are doing the inspections free of charge and you can take it in as often as you want for them to inspect. Just be prepared for them to sell you some service on your car, or even a new car! :)

[doc03]

75. My parents Chevy was a 1978 I believe and it was purchased

brand new, the quality of American cars hit rock bottom back in the late 70s. I had a 1977 Chevy Blazer that rusted through in 16 months and I had it rustproofed.

[Juneboarder]

80. Ouch!

That pre-dates me; however that can be very costly. Sorry to hear about the rust...

[Dreamer Tatum]

73. Toyota also leads the industry in sales

By your logic, hospitals lead all buildings in deaths.

[lastliberalintexas]

76. No, they do not

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html


Even now, GM outpaces Toyota. I know it's hard for some people on this site to actually discuss the facts surrounding autmobiles for some reason, but Toyota does not lead the industry in sales, especially of trucks- the number of units is not even close. GM and Ford's problems (to the extent that they actually exist and are not a ploy to rid themselves of the UAW and pensions), have more to do with the faltering economy and legacy costs than most people care to admit.

Consumer Reports (which I don't think has yet been mentioned in this thread) is a self-reporting survey of auto quality, and therefore not the most reliable. JD Powers is a better marker, and they usually have GM, Ford, Toyota and Honda as relatively equivalent in quality.

[Bake]

63. Really? I had a Camry that gelled the engine oil and threw a rod

at 20,000 MILES!

Oh. And Toyota had that problem with many many many of their Camrys. They wouldn't cover it under the warranty, either.

Fucking bastards.

Bake

[bluecollarcharlie]

13. If the economy sinks any further you may have to live in one

of those cars. So thanks for helping to ruin the economy and accelerating the race to the bottom. We can't do it without you.

[Juneboarder]

16. Your welcome (I guess)...

The fact that I buy Toyota is not a reason to thank me for our economy and auto industry spiraling downhill. Try finding an alternate, more justifiable, scapegoat; as consumers do what they need to in order to survive and get from day to day. I personally chose to no longer buy an American car, as I enjoy watching my dollars spent go towards something that will last and hold its value the longest. I truly do not find happiness and satisfaction in buying something I feel isn't the best for the money spent.

But hey! Thanks for the input :) :sarcasm:

[WriteDown]

17. American consumerism at its best....

The Japanese buy Japanese because they take great pride in their country and countrymen. You apparently can't be bothered to consider those factors though.

[Juneboarder]

20. In case you haven't noticed...

the quality of items produced (houses and cars for example) have been going down quite a bit over the last ten years. Not just going down, but going down in a big way. Big companies were looking at the bottom line and trying to increase their money every way possible thus giving us products that don't even compare to other technology being put into the market by other countries. I can notice this by simply walking through brand new homes having open houses or by simply looking at the buying patterns of American Cars versus Japanese and German cars. Shoot... I'd even buy a car from India at this point just for the gas mileage that they offer. American car manufactureres are in bed with the oil companies and their only goal is to increase the bottom line and shaft it to the consumer.

[WriteDown]

22. Ridiculous and poorly thought out...

So companies were trying to make money by reducing market share and user satisfaction? Ha. Unfortunately, cheaper foreign cars which weren't constrained by legacy costs coupled with an American public who really couldn't care if something was made by American union workers reduced GM sales. And gas mileage? Seriously? You really need to read up on the American manufacturers fleet.

[Juneboarder]

29. No, I really don't feel I need to read up on that...

Feel free to speak with me and provide facts, but if I'm just stating my opinion then I shouldn't be chastised. Please, provide me proof that the quality of workmanship has remained the same, because my eyes must be lying to me then if I'm wrong :)

[WriteDown]

24. Courtesy of fellow poster, LithiumBomb

"This whole GM makes nothing but gas guzzling SUVs meme is just total bullshit. Look at the websites of their numerous brands for crying out loud, do some research.

A few weeks ago, for this reason, I compared the Chevrolet and Toyota brands, since both have similarly diverse lineups of passenger cars, SUVs, and trucks. The Hybrid and XFE models (extra fuel economy in GM marketing speak) are listed as separate models. I'm listing the fuel economy of the most efficient models in each case.

Figures are City/Highway mpg, and average of the group at the end. This is far from scientific. If someone wants to do their own research using the figures at manufacturer and EPA websites, go right ahead.

Chevrolet Cars:
Aveo 27 34
Corvette 16 26
Cobalt XFE 25 37
Cobalt Sedan 25 33
Malibu 22 33
Malibu Hybrid 26 34
Impala 19 29
Cars: 22.85714286 32.28571429

Toyota Cars:
Yaris 29 36
Corolla 26 35
Matrix 26 32
Camry 21 31
Camry Hybrid 33 34
Prius 48 45
Venza 21 29
Avalon 19 28
Cars: 27.875 33.75

Edge Toyota. The Prius gets such good city mileage boosting their average, but their fleet highway mileage is within a point. The Impala is a pretty old platform and hurts Chevrolet's numbers. It will be retired in coming years. Take out the Impala and Corvette and the numbers for Chevrolet go up to 25 and 34.

Chevrolet SUVs:
Equinox 17 24
HHR 22 32
Tahoe 14 20
Tahoe Hybrid 21 22
TrailBlazer 15 21
Traverse 17 24
Suburban 14 20
SUV: 17.14285714 23.28571429

Toyota SUV:
Rav4 22 28
FJ Cruiser 16 20
Highlander 18 24
Highlander Hybrid 27 25
4Runner 16 21
Sequoia 14 17
Land Cruiser 13 18
Sienna 17 23
SUV: 17.875 22

Well look at that? Toyota seems to make a whole bunch of gas guzzling SUVs. The numbers are so close between the makers I'd call it a wash. Let's move on to full size trucks:

Chevrolet Trucks:
Silverado 15 20
Silverado Hybrid 21 22
Colorado 18 24
Avalanche 14 20
Express 13 16
Trucks: 16.2 20.4

Trucks
Tacoma 20 26
Tundra 15 19
Trucks: 17.5 22.5

Edge Toyota with a much smaller fleet."

Toyota has the edge in overall fleet mpg. But is Toyota the greenest company ever and GM the worst SUV world hating corporation? I don't see it. Both companies make gas guzzling SUVs and trucks and both make fuel efficient cars. There is room for improvement in both companies' lineups in my opinion.

[Juneboarder]

28. Oh I definitely agree with the above...

I'm not saying that Toyota is the greenest... I simply stated that Toyota still has my business. The reason they still have my business is because (IMHO) I feel that they offer a higher quality of manufacture and have a longer lifetime expectancy... more bang for my buck.

[KansDem]

35. "I can notice this by simply walking through brand new homes having open houses"

Just curious. What do you look for when touring brand-new homes? What are the "red flags" of an inferiorly-manufactured home that might tend to dissuade you from buying?

Thanks for your insight! :hi:

[Juneboarder]

39. Just some of the obvious...

1. Walls not being flush with showers and bathtubs
2. Cracked slabs
3. Water Leaks
4. Interior Painting
5. Shotty craftsmanship of the cabinetry not being aligned
6. Tile flooring not being in line with the walls properly
7. Wood flooring not being patterned as it should
8. Base molding being different sizes just so that it appears to be done properly

I'm not a home inspector, but these are items that my wife and I have noticed through many new homes we have walked through. I have to say, the majority of homes that we saw in this fashion were built by our more known builders, such as KB Homes, KHovanian, Pardee, Ryland, etc...

I also saw this happening about 5 years ago or so with my line of work, as I am a loan processor and have seen many termite inspections come across my desk. In many, many conversations with my termite professionals, they would point out the shotty craftsmanship themselves.

[KansDem]

46. I have a friend who bought a "new home" several years ago...

I was built in the 1980s, I believe. But the last time I visited him, I noticed cracks and splits in the fascia. It looked like cheap lumber, if there is such a thing as "cheap lumber."

[Juneboarder]

50. I was more referring to homes/cars built in the last 5-8 years more in particular...

as that represents the approximate time span of when shit went to hell in a handbasket (I mean Bush got into office...)

[Lorien]

49. Oh man, I know what you mean. The proof here was easy to see after

hurricane Charley. My friends with new homes lost roofs, siding, windows, pool screens, and experienced flooding due to the damage. My home, built in 1925, had NO damage at all. It's built like a fort, while the neighbor's new home down the street was shredded like a Kleenex box.

12 years ago my friend Mark had a home built that he sold two years ago-after major repairs. The chimney was cracked, the windows all leaked, the front door frame needed replacement, the upstairs shower needed to be torn out and redone because the builder never lined the damn thing and it had leaked into the ceiling, causing all kinds of damage. This was a $300,000 house at the time! Another friend moved into a new Victorian in Celebration, FL and after the first major rain storm all of the kitchen cabinetry on one wall came down! Scared the hell out of him and his wife. Somehow water had leaked into the insulation on the wall supporting the cabinets, which then collapsed. Unreal! There are a lot of companies out there who have zero pride in the work they do. The name of the game is fast profits-as much as possible. Unless we change our culture and promote pride in fine craftsmanship again EVERYONE will continue to pay for the constant pain that the alternative gives us.

[Juneboarder]

51. I couldn't agree with you more...

and what gorgeous cats you have, btw!!! :hi:

[tabasco]

82. I'm a former Army Ranger with two combat tours. Drive a Toyota.

Question my patriotism, pal.

Blaming customers for a failing business is unmitigated stupidity.

[Festivito]

40. That would mean you haven't bought domestic in many years.

The quality of American cars in general have surpassed Japan for several years now. I hope you at least take a look at giving your own country the chance of a purchase especially when the profit margin returns to this country.

And, if you become stuck in the snow with your japanese car, do be careful how you rock your way out so you don't end up buying a new $5,000-$15,000 transmission.

It's one of those quality issues we corrected a long long time ago.

[Juneboarder]

43. My 2000 Toyota Prerunner

has been in the snow every year since I purchased it brand new. It has 130,000 miles on it.

As for being careful in the snow... I agree; however I feel it more has to do with the experience of the driver in the snow and the capabilities of the car rather than the maker of the car as to what is safest to be driving in.

You know how you one can learn to not do bad things by watching others and not making those same mistakes? That is how I feel with my purchasing US Automobiles. I have had poor experiences myself as well as watched several friends and family members struggle with their US Automobiles and so that is why I have my preference of Toyota.

[Festivito]

47. Be careful to stop fully before changing direction.

We just had a foot of snow here in Detroit. I had to rock my van out of drift/ruts five times in the last three days. Waiting between reverse and drive can be real problem maker when trying to gain enough momentum to un-stick. If I had a japanese transmission I'd have stopped, waited, and then changed gears. Instead having my old Plymouth (from before Daimler) I rocked it like a swinging baby and bailed out two of my friends without resorting to loans.

You can wait for the ten and twenty year reports showing the quality of today's domestic was better now, if you want.

I'm just suggesting that you make the effort to take a look. And be careful in snow. (I looked at your profile and saw you snowboard.)

It is a pretty good trick to make a better car cheaper than a country that pays no tariff (but makes us pay tariffs), has no unions because the elected representatives and the court act as unions for the people paid for by regular taxes rather than a special union stipend taken out of everyone union member's paycheck, a country that supplies a national health care (even to its foreign residents), and has no legacy retirees needing extra health care payments from its auto companies.

[Juneboarder]

54. Hi there...

Yes, I LOVE the snow and have seen the reports recently about Detroit and all the rest of the midwest that has just been buried and sitting in frigid temps... I'm so sorry to hear, and you are always welcome here in San Diego!! :)

As for snow... a foot is nothing when comparing to where I go... June Lake and Mammoth Lakes are known here in CA for their snowfall. I've been snowed in up in June Lake for a week with snow rising above the eaves of the roof. It actually sucked because there was no visibility and so I couldn't ride; however I drove my truck into town at least once each day and had no problems at all... I guess I'm fortunate to have good experiences in the snow, but then again, I still think it all boils down to the driver and the car's capabilities.

I am constantly reading up on auto's and their reports and will continue to stand by my Toyotas. I'm sorry if nobody here agrees with me, but I still feel I'm getting more bang for my buck. I personally don't have the extra money to blow on a car that will not produce superior wear and tear. I will be driving my Prerunner for at least another 170,000 miles and not have a car payment.

Please don't get me wrong... I don't feel this way due to auto bailouts or anything. I personally don't want to see all the union workers take pay cuts or worse, lose their jobs; but put in a tough situation, the public only has so many options. Why do you think more and more people shop at Wally World now than ever before? The economy stinks and everything going on right now is a direct effect of our economy. If you want to thank someone, then thank our glorious fuhrer, GWB...

[Festivito]

57. I have 160K, my bud has over 200K on each his two vans.

Mine has a wheelchair lift for my late mother(93 was not too shabby). I'm just still driving that van. Bud has over a thousand pounds of tools in each van and one survived being totaled after a deer hit. The secret is to change the oil regularly. 3000 for oil, 5000 for synthetic. That's what Americans don't do, and that's why foreign cars seemed to last longer. More sloppy Americans in the domestic car averages.

Thanks for the welcoming spirit. Have relatives in Orange, but they're getting old and I don't know the kids well. Should visit the upstate and up-coastal friends should I ever decide to travel again. Did see your zoo.

We have T-shirts that say I'm so tuff I vacation in Detroit. If you're that brave I'd have to welcome you. The snowboarding, however, is long ways away. Detroit rests on a flat ancient lake bed. Everyone flies to Crystal Mountain.

Don't worry about having disagreements. Half of DU hates me nearly every day. But, they're comin' round -- slowly.

Stay away from that wolly Wally if you can, help kick Der Fuhrer in the butt, and get our economy back.

If I can't get you to at least look at a Ford, GM or Chrysler, then here's my explanation of our economy for your reading fun.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Festivito/48

[lastliberalintexas]

77. That's your choice

Others have the right to call you on that choice, just as people who can afford to do otherwise are challenged for shopping at Walmart.

I would hope, though, that your disdain for US autombiles is based more on hard data than on personal or anecdotal evidence. The stats consistently show that Toyota, GM, Ford and Honda are roughly equivalent vehicles in quality and performance. Lemons come in all varieties- go volunteer to act as a mediator with the BBB on lemon laws in your state and you'll find claimants who own every make and model sold in the US.


It's also hard data that Toyota and Honda are notoriously anti-union, and have made concious decisions over the years to operate their US plants in right to work states. I come from a union family, and I would rather pay a mechanic to repair my 8 year old Ford Taurus (yep, 8 years old, 160K miles, no significant problems whatsoever) than buy a non-union auto.

[jaksavage]

12. False expectations

"the bigger reason is just that people do not have the money to buy cars"

Many didn't have the money before the down turn, but they where lured into a new car by "Deals they couldn't pass up." no money down, 3 year leases, easy credit"

The system demanded excessive profits over gradual sustained profits.
Investors seem to love a good bubble.

POP.

We could afford a new car before, but didn't buy one.
We can still afford a new car, we still aren't buying.

Best way to save money and resources...don't drive.(and don't waste your life watching TV.)

Build your life around that idea!

[Juneboarder]

21. I agree!!

I live in San Diego and the public transit here is horrible, but they are looking towards improvements that I might see in my lifetime.

I think that we as a population in whole should be veering away from driving everywhere for everything and consider utilizing the public transit and walking or biking for things closer to home. There is no reason to be such big wasters in oil and contributors to our world pollution; we should be leading by example.

[lastliberalintexas]

78. You're correct, but that isn't just true of car sales

The entire US economy has been a bubble for several years, far too dependent on a credit driven purchasing consumer rather than a manufacturing base of any consequence. :shrug:

[HopeHoops]

14. I think if the Toyota Execs want to go before Congress, they should have to drive from Japan ;}

[Trajan]

33. SMASH the misdirection of the union-bashers and RW idiots ...

The quality of the BIG 3 products may not be ideal, and their designs are more or less conventional, but their current problems are NOT related to bad design or lack of innovation ... Not in the least ..

Their 'problem' is that WE, the working families of America, have NO FUCKING MONEY, and cannot buy ANY cars: Not from Chrysler, Ford, Toyota, Honda, Kia, BMW, Nada, No way, No how ...

Blaming the Big 3 for 'not creating the cars that people want' is a big fucking LIE ....

They have lots of cars that people want ..... People dont have the INCOME that allows them to save up for cars ....

Why dont people have income enough ? .... Because, through the connivance of RW Union Haters and their friendly Yellow Dog Democrat lapdogs, they have IGNORED the needs working families, and allowed them to lose their purchasing power over the years ... Over the decades ...

We needed decent wage increases ... They more or less stopped in the 80's .... Miniscule 2% raises while the rest of the expense sheet ramped up at 4-6% ....

We have been squeezed to death, and now we cannot afford to buy ANYTHING ....

We need an infusion of wealth AT THE BOTTOM in order to bring the economy back, and buy cars again ....

We need RAISES ..... NOT decreases ....

As it stands: Only UAW members and their brothers and sisters in other unions can afford to buy cars, because THEY have the bargaining power to maintain a decent wage level ....

[lastliberalintexas]

79. Blue Dogs, my friend- not Yellow Dogs

The Blue Dogs are the conservative Dem coalition, the Yellow Dogs are (traditionally) the more liberal Dems. :)


The best selling car in the world is the Ford Focus. That seems to be a secret to many here at DU, who would apparently tell you that the best selling auto MUST be a Toyota of some sort. And while I don't blame the US consumer entirely, certainly, our status concious society is partly to blame for some of the current problems of the Big 3. Foreign cars are "sexier" than their US counterparts in the minds of too many. I can't imagine the horror if I suggested to some of my friends that they drive the Focus (or even the Fusion or Malibu) instead of their Corollas, CRVs and Camrys. :eyes:

[JNelson6563]

34. So lower wages and the inability to organize isn't the magic cure all?

Shelby=asshole of the year.

Wait till Alabama get thirsty.

Julie

[bjb]

55. Toyota in trouble

I knew their workers made way too much money! (SNARK). If the wages the Toyota workers get is much less than the UAW workers get, why are Toyota's so expensive? Shouldn't they be cheaper? I will only buy union.

[StudsT]

38. the world economy is downright FRIGHTENING - Obama needs nothing less than a $10 trillion investment

starting with UNIVERSAL healthcare, imho

:scared:

StudsT

[cabluedem]

44. Nothing a good world war wouldnt fix. Like Armeggedon style? nt

[sarcasmo]

53. Why don't congress force those employees to take a pay cut? Oh, wait

Those employees aren't Union.