Judge Voids Illinois Law on Silent Time in Schools

[Critters2]

Source: NYTimes.com

CHICAGO (AP) — A federal judge ruled Wednesday that the state law requiring a moment of silence in public schools across Illinois is unconstitutional, saying it crosses the line separating church and state.

“The statute is a subtle effort to force students at impressionable ages to contemplate religion,” the judge, Robert W. Gettleman, said in his ruling.

The ruling came in a lawsuit designed to bar schools from enforcing the law, the Illinois Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act. It was filed by a talk show host, Rob Sherman, an outspoken atheist, and his daughter, Dawn, a student at Buffalo Grove High School in suburban Chicago.

Judge Gettleman’s ruling was not a surprise. He had already ruled in favor of Mr. Sherman in two previous decisions.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/education/22illinois.html?ref=us

[Adsos Letter]

1. Good...get that camel's nose outta' the tent!

[Critters2]

2. Agreed, Adsos Letter. I was disappointed when this law went into effect.

This is a good decision.

[Adsos Letter]

3. Yup...we have enough problems to deal with....

without adding religious arguments to the mix.

OT, but Rob Boston, of Americans United, had some good insights into the Rick Warren issue:

http://blog.au.org/2009/01/21/inaugural-irritant-why-rick-warrens-prayer-left-me-cold/

Keep up the good fight Critters. :thumbsup:

[jeff30997]

6. Great story.

Thanks for the link.

[defendandprotect]

4. Yes . . . this is organized patriarchal religion looking for validation and . . .

acknowledgment thru public schools ---

If kids don't hear about "god" in public schools, families will still instruct them --

If kids do hear about "god" in public schools, they will believe that government believes in "god."

[jeff30997]

5. All this praying in school or other public places is pretty unusual for me.

Over here in Quebec we have an extremely similar way of life as peoples in the U.S (Except for the

fact that most of us speak French of course) but because of all the abuses the Catholic Church

committed we flushed them in the early 60s.Before that they were everywhere:Hospitals,schools

messing with peoples private life and telling everybody for which political party to vote! So I

grew up without prayers in school ,or anywhere else and only went to Church for Christmas or

funerals.Last year something strange happened to me.I was in the Dentist waiting room when 3 nuns

in full habit came in.That was the first time in my life that it happened to me because since the

Vatican II Council they were not wearing that anymore.Maybe they were members of a cult or

something but that was weird.Anyway,all this to say that I respect people's beliefs but personally

Religion is not my cup of tea. :)

[Kitty Herder]

7. This makes me think.

If I were a school teacher, I would want a moment of silence a few times of day. NOT a religious moment of silence, just silence for silence's sake, a chance for the kids to chill out a bit.

Would that be allowed, I wonder?

[boppers]

8. Well, there's a difference.

Can you, as a hypothetical teacher, have a "moment of silence" when you want it, or are you forced to "teach" it?

The case in question forced that time period.

[skepticscott]

9. If any parents

feel that their children absolutely must have a moment of silence at the start of their day (to NOT pray,or whatever), they're perfectly free to make time for it at home.

[ChazII]

10. Arizona

still has a moment of silence.

[Wednesdays]

13. Still?

This ruling will have no effect whatsoever on other states. Most places here in Oklahoma, they'll set themselves on fire before they give up that "moment of silence" in schools.

[prostock69]

11. Yeah!!!! Another small victory n/t

[yellowwood]

12. Have People finally Stopped Fearing Religious Threats?

It's about time. That "moment of silence" idea was clearly a ruse to cause children to think about some "higher being." Clearly an effort to impose some kind of thought control. Anybody who has ever faced a room full of students knows that if we could control their thoughts, they'd all be reading better and doing math at a higher level.
What stops any child from praying in school if he chooses to do so? Nothing. I'm sure that a lot of praying goes on around test time.
Are we finally seeing more resistance to the pressure of the religious zealots who not only want to practice their religion but want to impose it on the rest of us, too?

[Thor_MN]

14. Well, you know that god can't hear prayers if other people are talking in tha background.

Able to keep track of every aspect of life for billions of humans and every other creature in the universe, but background noise spoils the whole prayer thing - right out the window. You want an A on your chest? WHA?? You hope Laura Sue Green give you a snowjob?? Huh? Why won't Billy McQueen notice your tubes?

[unblock]

17. right. if anyone ever whines that prayer has been "banned" from schools,

i say, show me a math test and i'll show you prayer in school.

[pleah]

15. Good. Religion of any kind does not belong in public school.

:applause:

[The Wielding Truth]

16. I really see nothing wrong in a moment of thought our introspection.

[Abacus]

18. As an agnostic, niether do I. /nt

[BuddhaGirl]

24. I agree

I see nothing wrong with it. Kids could also be taught to close their eyes, and focus on their breathing for a few minutes. It would be very calming for them.

[PassingFair]

26. Any teacher can do that at any time.

It makes NO sense to MANDATE it.

[xchrom]

19. recommend

[Festivito]

20. I should probably change my DU name to Lone-Dissenter.

I wish I had time to argue, but I don't. Lucky usual suspects.

[Zhade]

21. "Mr. Fucking Wrong On The First Amendment" would be more appropriate.

There IS a separation of church and state, it is ILLEGAL and UNCONSTITUTIONAL to endorse religion (of which atheism is NOT part), and your arguments have been debunked every time you try to claim otherwise.

Dismissed.

[Festivito]

22. Oh my. That is so wrong in so many ways.

1st that name is too long.

2nd is that periods are not allowed in names. I'll have you know that I'll not be the one having the bad period.

3rd you start so well noting that church and state are separated, sometimes even by whole blocks, but indeed they are. However,

4th, it is NOT ILLEGAL to endorse religion, and,

5th, it certainly IS CONSTITUTIONAL to endorse religion, in fact the Constitution itself endorses religion in outlining its status as freely chosen and practiced. And,

6, I will do so myself, should I so desire.

7th Atheism is not part of a religion, it is, for some hard-atheists, a religion unto itself. Mind you, heavy on lacking.

8th I must admit that you do find it easy to debunk my arguments, all you do is repeat what you've said before and call it debunked, .. what a mind.

9th, I really don't have time.

10th is that I notice anger, which pleases me since it seems to say that someday we'll agree as the Chinese have placed the anger in debate.

Good night.

[PassingFair]

25. LOL

:spray:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

23. Aw. poow pewsecuted Cwistians.

[Festivito]

28. Tuda boa?

Os Cristianos son tao bem, obrigado.

[Tansy_Gold]

27. Three cheers for District 214!

Tansy Gold, AHS '66