English-only driver's tests proposed in Georgia

[onehandle]

Source: AP

ATLANTA – Georgia would require that new drivers take a written license test in English under a bill being considered by state lawmakers, and the proposal has some employers and immigrant advocates worried it would keep people unfamiliar with the language from being able to work.

The measure is the latest in a series of English-only legislation around the country, but Georgia is believed to be the only state that would have a law requiring that drivers take the written test in English without a translator or other aid. Versions of the bill have passed both chambers of the Legislature, and lawmakers are trying to hash out differences before the session ends Friday.

Supporters say it is a public safety measure because drivers need to be able to read English to understand roadside signs and warnings. Opponents argue that the measure unfairly targets immigrants and may violate the 1964 Civil Rights Act. They also say it could discourage foreign companies from making investments in the state and affect local companies who hire foreign workers.

In a state where large portions of the population don't have access to public transportation, the proposed law could further isolate non-English speakers by preventing them from driving to work, shuttling their children around and getting to English classes, said Azadeh Shahshahani, a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union in Atlanta.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090402/ap_on_re_us/georgia_english_only

---

Welcome to Georgia, where it's always 1955.

On edit: Sure it makes sense to be able to read the signs. But, alas this is really about oppressing the poor and "foreigners." Trust me.

[sakabatou]

1. This seems highly illegal

[Angleae]

47. Why?

[WriteDown]

2. May have some merit...

If it says "right lane closed" or "bridge ends ahead," it may be valuable to know English. Most likely though you'll end up like here in Dallas where its a crap shoot whether the person that hit you has a valid license and/or insurance.

[Soylent Brice]

21. merit? i have to disagree:

people who CAN read english still fucking crash and kill people.

and believe me, it's not just dallas. i've lived in chicago, phoenix, and now in cincinnati. it's the same everywhere. the uninsured masses are aplenty.

[FudaFuda]

3. I drove in Japan for two years in the early 90's, can't read Japanese at all.

And I'm damned lucky I didn't kill someone. Just sayin'.

[sharp_stick]

14. LOL

I know what you mean, happened to me in Italy and I may well have killed somebody. On the other hand I don't think the average Italian driving around Rome has a clue what the signs say anyway.

[depakid]

39. At least In Italy you're driving on the right side of the road!

in the left seat of the car!

[T Wolf]

4. Georgia continues to strive to lead the nation in idiocy. If the split comes, can we rescue Atlanta

[Summermoondancer]

52. I sure hope so...I like Atlanta...just not the rest of Georgia

[JeanGrey]

71. You can have it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. It is definitely a bias-based proposal.

The test itself would be far more complex linguistically than any driving would be. The US uses most of the same international highway signs as the rest of the world, and you could drive from one end of the country to the other without knowing anything more than the most basic words - such as 'exit'. Even if they don't know what 'Stop Ahead' means, they will know a stop sign when they see it.

Just because they may not be able to read "Which is the stop sign?", it doesn't mean they don't know what a stop sign is.

[bluestateguy]

6. Six years ago I got rear ended by someone who spoke no English

So it's hard for me to not be sympathetic to this proposed law.

[Dappleganger]

7. Why??

there are plenty of people who speak English who don't carry car insurance and jack up our insurance rates all the time.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

10. Yeah, I'm sure his lack of English made him a lousy driver.

:eyes:

[sharp_stick]

15. Or it could be

that the guy had no clue why he had to wait at the scene of the accident or why he was being asked for insurance documentation? It's a lot easier to talk to someone, especially in a tense situation if you can at least basically understand each other.

[frylock]

32. i guess they couldn't understand the words on your brake lights..

serial WTF?

[bluestateguy]

35. No, but she could not apparently drive legally

She most likely was an illegal immigrant. She not only spoke no English, but she had a counterfeit Mexican driver's license. At least that's what the cops cited her for. Oh, and she tried to discourage me from calling the cops after the accident ("no policia!"). Gee I wonder why.

Driving is a privilege, not a right. People who don't like that can go back to their native country.

[EFerrari]

36. No English speaking American citizen has tried to avoid police contact

after an uninsured accident. Gotcha!

[Summermoondancer]

53. Brilliant did you think to ask her if she was going to pay for the accident?

perhaps her intention was to make it right...then you would have gotten the wreck paid for...isn´t that what most folks want? If they are taking care of the car I don´t care if the cops are called or not...it is just a wreck.

[bluestateguy]

58. She had no insurance

The insurance card she presented me with was bogus. When I contacted them, I was told that her insurance had been canceled due to non-payment of premiums.

So my own insurance (uninsured motorist coverage) had to pay for everything. This stupid women then disappeared, as my insurance company was unable to contact her or locate her in their attempts to recover damages. Fortunately, they did not raise my rates.

I'm sorry for everyone who is upset that this story did not play out a nice politically correct narrative where the mean old white male is the bad guy. But facts are facts.

[Summermoondancer]

63. No it doesn´t matter if a person has insurance that wasn´t what I asked

I asked you if you asked her if she intended to pay for the accident out of pocket? Wouldn´t it work out better to make some kind of formal arrangement that she signed in order to get your accident paid for? Like I said in an accident it isn´t intentional and people´s goal should be to have the accident paid for whether through insurance or other means.

[bluestateguy]

69. We exchanged insurance cards

That's what you are supposed to do when there is an accident.

Either she thought she had insurance, or she was being deceptive in presenting me with a canceled insurance card. At the time I had no reason to believe that she was uninsured, or an illegal immigrant.

The cops gave her 2 tickets, one for the phony Mexican license, and another for following me too closely (almost all rear endings are the fault of the tailer).

I then contacted her insurance company and was informed that the policy had been canceled for non-payment. The car was registered to relatives of hers who presumably were letting her use this car while she was in America. But either they or she stopped paying for the insurance. So then my "uninsured motorist" coverage had to pay for the accident. The car was declared totaled due to the cost of the massive damage to the rear end, even though mechanically it still ran just fine.

The insurance company at that point is responsible for recovering damages from the party at fault in the accident, not me. If I had done so through litigation, any money I collected could have been legally seized by the insurance company. As it turns out, the insurance company pretty much gave up on going after this woman or her family once they determined that she was an illegal immigrant who skipped town after the accident.

[Summermoondancer]

70. They cited her for what they deemed phony...but it doesn´t mean it was

it is quite possible that she was legal and had a tourist visa..that is not unfathomable that the facts were in order that she was using the car while she was here...she may not have known the insurance had been cancelled...had you concidered that? or do you think there is always something sinister when an accident happens?

[Bill McBlueState]

59. This proposed law in Georgia wouldn't solve that problem

If the driving test is only in English, there will likely be *more* people driving around with counterfeit Mexican driver's licences, not fewer.

If you're concerned about immigrants not driving well, seems to me you would want to make it easier for them to acquire training and licensure, not harder.

[bluestateguy]

61. Or we could deport them for breaking the law

Driving is a privilege, not a right.

[Bill McBlueState]

62. the 1% that get caught, I suppose

:shrug:

[Summermoondancer]

64. In places in Georgia there is no choice but to drive

there is no public transportation and the closest store sometimes is several miles away...the test part that is signs is already only in English so why is there a need to make the rest of the test in only English?

[hasidic acid]

8. I think it is a good idea.

There are too many horrible drivers who DO read English...let alone those who can't.

[tomm2thumbs]

9. hell, if they want to do that, just watch as what little business they have moves out

just because it slowly undermines the ability of business to function. Let 'em do it - it'll be our pleasure to take the businesses that relocate to our state. We'd love the tax revenue.

[supernova]

11. They'll just have that many more w/o DLs on the roads

People who can't take the test in English will go without and take that chance of not getting caught.

GA legislature is stupid to consider this.

[sharp_stick]

17. Absolutely

and without a valid DL they probably won't have insurance or registration either.

[RubyDuby in GA]

23. You could have just stopped with "GA legislature is stupid"

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

12. I disagree about road signs

I'm from Italy and road signs used in Europe are very different from the ones used here. Moreover, quite a few signs include English words such as "yield" which may be unknown to a non-English speaker. English was not a language I spoke at all when I arrived in the U.S. at 15 years of age and I had to learn rather quickly. Coming from the perspective of one whose English was terrible then and, at the same time, a teenager trying to learn to drive, the task was quite daunting but necessary. I never saw it as an imposition or racism or ethnicism to learn English in order to be able to understand what words like 'yield' and 'no passing zone' mean.

The driving test, which I took in NC, was not difficult for me however. Obviously, NC did not have a test in Italian. I did just fine. I don't see how this can be oppressive.

[RubyDuby in GA]

24. On the surface, it doesn't seem oppressive, but trust me as someone who follows my legislature very

closely - this is the latest in their very right-wing anti-immigrant crusade to rid the state of spanish speaking brown people.
Every day I think they can't do anything else to make me more embarrassed for this state and every day they prove me wrong.

[Summermoondancer]

54. In Georgia

the driver´s test already is given only the written part in Spanish, technical terms per se on how you react...the sign part of the test is already in English...course they didn´t tell folks that.

[CRAZY_DEM]

13. I have kind of mixed feelings about this... i mean all road signs were in english last time i

checked. Does this make me sound like a bigot?

[depakid]

27. No, but it does make you sound like an ugly American

Who's probably never travelled anywhere outside the US.

[izquierdista]

41. Have YOU been outside the US?

If you have, you would know that STOP is the same the world over. Even in countries that use Cyrillic alphabets, the red octagon says STOP. But that is the not the only English that you will see, since English is the international language of travel and signs giving directions or warning of construction are bi-lingual, the local language and -- English.

[WriteDown]

43. Is this sign the same the world over?

[depakid]

45. No, they don't always say "stop" in English

--------



The again, there are other rules Americans aren't familiar with that have nothing to do with language:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070540.jpg

Should they not allowed to drive in these countries?

The point of the OP was that the Georgia legislation is petty and thinly vieled racism (or xenophobia) designed simply to make life difficult for immigrants.

[izquierdista]

42. Dup

[EFerrari]

37. But most of them can be learned as icons so it doesn't matter

what language they're in -- like the steep grade signs or curvy road signs, stop, caution, yield, numbers for speed limits -- they aren't all white signs in the same shape with English words on them.

[WriteDown]

44. How about this one?

or

[EFerrari]

We have different ones for rock slides -- they have a representation

of rock slides on them. And do you think the bridge sign is the first one? 8 feet?! That's not a lot of warning unless you're basically parked already.

[WriteDown]

49. No, but they're are plenty other examples.

Ths falling rock signs initially came to mind because I used to see them a lot in Asheville, NC. They were words and not symbols though.

[melm00se]

16. the lack of license

didn't stop the illegal immigrant who slammed into the rear end of my truck from driving.

drunk as a skunk (could smell liquor from 10 feet away)...no insurance, no license and the tags on his car were reported stolen.

those 3 strikes did not go over well with the state troopers who hauled him away...

he never showed up in court after being being released on bail.

[Mr. Ected]

19. 999 POSTS!

Last time it'll ever keep count.

Red letter day for you.

[LanternWaste]

26. And the ability to read English didn't prevent...

And the ability to read English didn't prevent the drunken yankee American slob from T-boning me...

Odd, he didn't have insurance either-- maybe our two drunks were related... :shrug:

[Summermoondancer]

55. It also didn´t prevent a bus

heading up an exit ramp on one of the hwy´s in Atlanta and failing to stop at the dead end, instead of turning they went straight over the railing to the other side crashing to the hwy below them and killing several students.
Perhaps I can find the story somewhere...I was flabbergasted when it happened.

[LanternWaste]

72. So what does this tell us? I would think

So what does this tell us?

I would think: That people of all nationalities can be drunken dumb asses -- regardless of what sides of your imginary red and blue lines on a map they were born on...

[Quantess]

48. How does your story make a point relating to the proposed GA legislature?

He drove without a license, so how would the GA law change affect him?

I know it's so tempting to throw in an anecdotal story, but, what's your point?

[melm00se]

73. people will drive

automobiles with or without valid licenses. Saying that someone can't get one will not, as my anecdote indicated, stop them from getting behind the wheel.

[Quantess]

74. Agreed. We already have a problem of too many unlicensed drivers;

this proposed law won't help a bit.

[Bill McBlueState]

60. there's a good point in there

Making it harder for people to get a license won't solve the problem the GA legislature thinks it will solve.

[Mr. Ected]

18. At Least Non-English Speakers Can't Comprehend Rushbo On the Radio

I admittedly become a very, very bad driver when I inadvertently turn on the radio and hear the bloviations of Limbaugh, Hannity or Boortz.

Advantage: Non-English speakers.

[Bette Noir]

20. Just what anybody needs--

A flock of unlicensed, and therefore uninsurable, drivers.

One doesn't have to read English in order to recognize road signs-- they're identifiable by color and shape (quick-- what does a red octagon mean?). More and more, they're in international signs, such as a squiggly line designating that the road winds ahead.

[Tim01]

22. I saw a lawyer defending a non-english speaker

say that the non-english speaking driver couldn't understand the officer during the DUI test, so the evidence wasn't admissible in court.
Shouldn't it be mandatory that a driver can communicate with police officers?

[WriteDown]

25. Hmmm...

That is a decent point.

[LanternWaste]

30. In TX, that type of evidence is allowed...

In TX, that type of evidence is allowed... dunno about your state though.

[EFerrari]

38. Depends on the venue. It's the other way around in a lot of places. n/t

[Quantess]

50. Blood Alcohol Content is the same in every language, LOL.

I sure hope a breathalyzer settled any confusion in that case.

[damntexdem]

28. Then how will all those backwoods idiots pass?

Surely what they do to the language wouldn't allow them to pass any English test.

[demgurl]

29. I would expect another country for me to be able to read their road signs before ......

driving on their roads. I would appreciate it if the test itself was in English but I feel it would be very egotistical for me to go some place like Germany and insist they conform to my language.

I do not feel it is wrong to test EVERYONE (like they did with me during my last test) as to what signs mean. You must know that in order to drive safely and not harm yourself or others.

Testing people only in one language is wrong, though. There must be a little give and take and as long as they recognize what our symbols/road signs mean (in English) then that is all that matters. Testing in English crosses that line.

As far as driving without the proper requirements, I feel the same way about that as I do about George Bush breaking the law - if you break it then it is illegal and you should be arrested. My Mom ran up a huge amount of doctor bills when she was hit by someone who was uninsured. But if they just test the basic driving understanding of English, that should not be a problem.

[pattmarty]

31. 1955????? How about 1855. Some of these southern states...........

..........are actually going backwards. Georgia, Alabama, Texas, Mississippi, Florida, Oklahoma. Just look at some of the local politicians in some of these states and what they are saying. Let these fucktards secede again and we'll throw in Alaska as a bonus for them.

[Runcible Spoon]

33. Ahh yes, weed out the immigrants who wish to abide by the law and push more unlicensed drivers

onto the road.

I have an international driver permitthat I had to do jack shit to get...just show up at a AAA office, show ID, get a pic taken, and fork over a small fee. I drove in many countries on 3 different continents. It takes all of a few minutes to acclimate to a country's traffic signs.

This is anti-immigrant bigotry, pure and simple.

[Brucie Kibbutz]

34. In other words...

"They don't look like us and they talk funny".

"They need to go back where they came from".

"THEY ARE TAKIN' OUR JUB"!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2fGl9587X8

[Igel]

40. One of those things I've always been torn over.

On the one hand, seldom have I been abroad and been able to get English-language copies of the forms I've had to complete. Unless, of course, I was in Britain or Canada.

Fill out a required form for foreigners in the Czech Republic and it's in Czech. Complain in English, they ignore you because, well, you have to put your complaints in Czech. For things that serve their interests, sure, English is fine--shopping, renting a hotel room, ordering food. It's clear that they accommodate you on their terms.

Now, Georgia currently, one web page says, offers the road knowledge portion of the test in 14 languages. On the Georgia government website I can only find 12: "Yes, the Road Rules portion of the Knowledge Exam is available in the following foreign languages: Arabic, Spanish, Chinese, French, German, Bosnian, Japanese, Korean, Laos, Polish, and Russian. The Road Sign Test, however, is only available in English. All drivers must have the ability to read and understand simple English such as used in highway traffic and directional signs." http://www.dds.ga.gov/FAQs/Index.aspx?FAQCategoryID=28

The practice permit tests are only offered in 3 languages: "We currently offer practice permit tests in English, Spanish, and Chinese." http://driversed.com/courses/DMV-permit-test/georgia-DMVS-permit-test-faqs.aspx#13

What I'm torn over are several problems. The first is, What if you speak Farsi or Italian? Then, suddenly, you're in the same boat that every other non-English-speaker would be in. Few care because it's not a political problem. Most SCOTUS decisions focus not on rights of individuals but rights of individuals only to the extent they're part of groups. This always struck me as odd because most Constitutional rights are individual rights.

The second is the sheer expense of maintaining the materials up to date.

The third is the silly "national origin" complaint. For what reason would we discriminate against French but not English or New Zealanders, Pakistanis but not Singaporans (where English is a fairly common 2nd language, and not an uncommon native language)? They're attributing intent to discriminate with an independent variable, hoping that nobody notices that pretty much the distinction isn't "national origin" but a skill. There are natural-born American citizens who don't speak English, after all.

[starroute]

46. Foreign tourists can drive here without knowing English

I'm looking at http://www.usa.gov/Topics/Foreign_Visitors_Driving.shtml and all it says is that you have to have a driver's license from your own country and that "the United States does NOT issue international driver's permits to foreign visitors."

It seems to be only if you're going to be a legal resident here that you have to get a driving license from the state of residence.

So this isn't really about non-English speakers driving. It's about *immigrants* driving -- and that's a whole other thing.

[BrightKnight]

77. I have driven all over France without any trouble and I speak almost no French.

It did not take long to learn the few signs like "sorte." You don't have to be very bright to figure it out.

Driving in the UK is actually a little more challenging. Reading through a copy of The Highway Code is good idea.

I want everyone on the road to be properly licensed and aware of the traffic laws. I could not care less about the language that they speak.

[Summermoondancer]

51. Most signs in Georgia aren´t written but are pictures...

so how are they going to argue that with a straight face? They can´t! Just a bunch of backwoods hicks that think that immigrants are taking over...they thought the same thing and allowed ICE to bust in doors in South Georgia without warrants...they busted in the doors of SIX US citizens...uh oh...and now they are being sued and are trying to argue they didn´t need a warrant.

[xxqqqzme]

56. Georgia is becoming another

Idaho.

[Tab]

57. I've driven on the Autobahn in Germany

I don't speak German - I know a smattering - but I can figure out the road signs. Could I successfully take a full written test? Probably not. That doesn't mean I don't know how to drive or read the vast majority of the road signs. Even if I can't fully translate it, I can get the general drift of it. I'm sure that puts me ahead of most teenage German drivers.

[onehandle]

67. I drove all over western Europe last year. Including the Autobahn.

France, Germany, Switzerland, and Italy.

No problems whatsoever.

I avoided driving when we were in England. The signs were in English, but nobody seemed to want to drive on the correct side of the road.

[Tab]

78. Actually, my biggest problem driving on the Autobahn

and it may have just been the area I was in (around Stuttgart) but you just enter the Autobahn - there's no frickin' merge lane. The first time I did it I almost got my ass clipped.

[didact]

65. Why would I "trust you" that this is really about oppressing the poor and "foreigners."?

[didact]

66. ...and really, why is the "poor" thrown in your group?

presumably, the most all "poor", born in the US can read...at least on a street sign level.

[Romulox]

68. This makes sense for basic public safety. nt

[Wabbajack_]

75. The road sings are all in English aren't they?

[The Traveler]

76. I disagree

I have driven in foreign lands ... and from my experience conclude that an inability to understand the signs elevates risk of an accident. If you have a large group of people driving around in a state of similarly elevated risk, then the risk to the general public is elevated. This risk represents just another vector by which the costs of cheap labor are absorbed by the public, to the enormous financial benefit of the corporations that hire them.

It is really only a problem because of the numbers involved. Around here, we have large numbers of immigrants (people who are hoping to stay here) and migrants (people who are here for a while just to work). I really don't have a problem with either category ... but the numbers and the weight on public services and infrastructure they impose are a definite problem, and one for which I can see no good solution in the short term.

Look at it more deeply, and you will find we have a large number of properly documented foreign nationals living and working around here. It seems to me they should have access to services which will help them adapt to living (and driving) here. As for the undocumented workers ... and we might have even more of those ... a common problem around these parts is being hit by an unlicensed and/or uninsured undocumented immigrant. (I know several people who have had this experience in the past couple of years.) I don't see how keeping these folk from passing a driving test and obtaining insurance is going to help that. While I can understand why people are upset about the magnitude of the undocumented immigrant problem around here, I don't see this as a solution. Properly documented or not, if they are here, we need to integrate them into our society.

People bold enough to illegally cross borders in an attempt to better their lives and the lives of their loved ones are not going to be stopped by the lack of a driver's license. (I like that about them ... bold is good. Also, quite American.) They're going to get to work, even if that means driving without a license. So I see this as no solution worth pursuing.

But I do not think the law is being proposed as a way of oppressing the poor and foreign born. Rather, it is a poorly conceived effort to get some control on a range of problems created by a massive and unplanned influx of people with special needs. Good intentions. Roads to hell.

Trav