NY governor: At least 12 killed in Binghamton

[Botany]

Source: AP

NY governor: At least 12 killed in Binghamton
By WILLIAM KATES – 8 minutes ago
BINGHAMTON, N.Y. (AP) — Gov. David Paterson says "12 or 13" people were killed in an attack on an immigration services center in Binghamton, N.Y.
A federal law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity also says the shooter has been found dead in the building.
Officials and media reports have said as many as 41 hostages were taken.
The law enforcement official says the gunman entered the building through the front while firing. He had already blocked the back door with his car.

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iTkwh0jekRrls-b8ugkObNpK6XsQD97B5OE00

---

:cry:

[wartrace]

1. I wonder what causes people to do things like this.

What makes people so angry that they want to kill strangers? Why do people commit mass murder?

[ananda]

5. a possible scenario

lost his job

needs a scapegoat

[maxsolomon]

8. Same as everyone else:

self-centered fear.

the american combination of 1. anomie + 2. male + 3. poor access to mental health treatment + 4. easy access to powerful firearms = irrational acts based on faulty reasoning.

as our national anxiety increases due to "the economy", these incidents are now coming 2/week. and again, the shooter committed suicide, so the "why" remains cloudy. in the nursing home shooting early this week, the gunman was arrested alive. but that seems to be a rarity. i wouldn't count on answers from him.

[Snazzy]

55. and don't forget "might equals right"--

the national psychology embraced for at least the last 8 years and readily endorsed overtly on wingnut radio (which is apparently nearly all of the AM dial even here in New York) and more subtlety in the vast majority of the rest of the media. Throw in some anti-imigrant hysteria while we're at it. IBM, which apparently laid him off, has been in the news/op eds for slashing jobs while taking stimulus tax breaks. I wonder how much play that got on AM in upstate NY.

[smoogatz]

12. Psychosis.

There are something like 3 million (1%) schizophrenics in the U.S., and millions more with other psychotic illnesses. Unless you've committed a crime, even if you're hearing voices, it's your right to buy as many firearms as you like. Guns+crazy=lots of dead people.

[katty]

35. yeah, and are these people off their meds or had any mental

health assessment, ever? One has to be extremely paranoid, desperate and filled with rage to just grab a gun and shoot people at random.

[smoogatz]

40. One has to be psychotic, pretty much.

And probably either untreated, off one's meds, or on the wrong meds/dosages/combos. They don't have to have a reason if their brain chemistry's sufficiently out of whack. All they need is a gun, which they're entitled to own under the 2nd amendment.

[X_Digger]

63. Not if they've been adjudicated mentally incompetent..

Different states have different but similar reporting criteria, but if you've ever had a TRO sworn out against you for suicidal behavior, been committed involuntarily, adjudicated as mentally incompetent, or adjudicated as a danger to yourself or others- you can't buy a gun from a dealer, pawn shop, or sporting goods store.

[Muttocracy]

15. severe mental illness + financial problems + immigration issues

:shrug:

:cry:

[Muttocracy]

39. post down below says he was recenlty laid off from IBM (big local employer) :(

[Muttocracy]

69. too late to edit - info was incorrect. nt

[theHandpuppet]

21. I know my comment about this will probably result in flames

But it isn't just "people" who are running around commiting these mass murders. Too many MALES of our species have rage and violence issues and until there's a general acknowledgment of that elephant in the human living room -- and until all men are willing to talk to one another about it -- nothing is going to change. Absolutely NOTHING.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

25. I am a male.

I agree. I know plenty about dishing it out and taking it, too. But I don't get what is happening inside people now.

[Skelly]

32. I agree

And it won't stop for awhile. In fact, IMHO, it will even escalate in the next four years. Our world has been dominated by the masculine for a very long time. When the feminine begins to dominate (which should be shortly after the next Presidential election), these things will calm down. However, some say we will be in for a whole new set of problems. Ah, life.

[llmart]

73. You will not get flamed from me.....

The "angry white male" syndrome emerged in full force during the Clinton years due in large part to the Rush Limpballs type shows that stoke the anger. Many of these men listen to Hannity and Rush every day until they become convinced the world has done them wrong. They also have a sense of entitlement implicit in our society. I agree with you that until we get more rational conversation going with admirable men as leaders, then the problem will never be solved and our society will be poorer for it.

[kristopher]

27. Do you know that they are strangers? nt

[wartrace]

38. Good point, I do not know the relationship. n/t

[NeoConsSuck]

44. One idea:

Rush Limpballs and right wing hate radio.

[xchrom]

2. you just never know...

you're at work, the store, the post office -- next thing -- boom somebody shoots you dead.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

3. immigration services center, gee I wonder what the motive was...

I really wish the talking heads left and right would tone down the anti-immigrant rhetoric.

[treestar]

47. And the simple minded meme that each immigrant who has a job

has thereby put an American out of work.

[Taverner]

4. I'll bet anything the shooter was a wingnut

Time to check Free Republic for any threats...

[Dreamer Tatum]

6. Yeah, just like Lee Malvo nt

[enuegii]

7. I think they're saying it's an Asian guy...

no one's sure yet.

[cali]

9. I doubt it. Much more likely that this was something personal.

[Quantess]

20. Would that be an Asian wingnut?

Anything's possible...

[kristopher]

28. Suspect: Jiverly Voong. Name is of Vietnamese origin. nt

[Summermoondancer]

76. I don´t know

but the reality is that he was angry about losing his job, he was barely making it on unemployment and people were discriminating against him because he had an accent...
Why he took it out on other immigrants astounds me..but the things found on his hard drive remain to be investigated and an Asian man from the right wing agenda on Topix...who lived in NY and was originally from California is MIA...so one can only wonder....

[CANDO]

10. Watch this play out... it'll be an eliminationist wing nut.

These people are out there on the edge and the right wing is engaging in apocalyptic rhetoric ... these things are going to escalate.

[Peregrine Took]

14. Its time to reign in hate radio - like yelling "fire!" in a theater.

They're going too far in these trying economic times when people are already freaking out.

I hear two separate scary goons call in to progressive radio in Chicago last week screeching their talking points. Both of them were hysterical and the host couldn't even get in a word edgewise.

He advised one to take his tranquilizer and calm down.

[subsuelo]

22. I happened to catch like 20 minutes of M. Savage the other night

He spent a lot of time telling his listeners they need to start "taking action into their own hands" regarding the take-over of the liberal mindset infesting the nation

[Summermoondancer]

77. How can you stand to listen to more than 3 minutes of Savage?

I want to puke after 30 seconds.

[Dreamer Tatum]

46. Also time to rein in extreme rushes to judgment nt

[cali]

17. It is not. It was a Vietnamese man.

They called in an interpreter. Don't know if the shooter was an American citizen or what, but if his English was so scanty that they needed an interpreter, it's clear it had zip to do with the right wing.

[Summermoondancer]

78. So an Asian can´t be a right winger?

He had been in the US for 28 years and he was a US citizen.

[ShareTheWoods]

51. FAIL

If you are looking for the problem there then you are lost.

[CANDO]

71. So there's not an eliminationist problem with the right wingers?

I'm lost? Well, how about killing doctors who provide abortions? How about invading a Unitarian church and killing the libruuls within? How about bombing the Murrah Federal Building in OKC? No, I think there's a pattern here. You're the one who may be lost. Guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people,... very efficiently. So I'm wrong on this one being a wing nut. Myself and millions of others instinctively somehow had the first thought of it being a wing nut. We must have pulled that straight out of our asses for no reason, right?

[Javaman]

11. jesus christ. WTF?

fuck.

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. It seems like every damn day this stuff happens.

How many innocent souls have died this week alone?

What is wrong here?

[Flagg]

31. This stuff does happen every damn day...

it's like the new national past-time.

[FudaFuda]

16. Gunman ID'd : Jiverly Voong, aka Linh Phat Voong

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7249853&page=1

who knows what the motive's gonna turn out to be, or if they ever really figure it out. Same story also report a Vietnamese Professor from a nearby community college was called in, presumably to interpret between shooter and police.

[Muttocracy]

18. yes, local paper said professor came in as an interpreter:

Broome Community College Assistant Professor Tuong Hung Nguyen was asked to work with police to communicate with the shooter. Nguyen is fluent in Vietnamese.

http://www.pressconnects.com/article/20090403/COMMUN05/90403027

[Muttocracy]

19. CNN said there will be a press conference at 4pm. nt

[Muttocracy]

26. correction - mayor at 5pm. nt

[onehandle]

23. I want details on the gun(s) and who/where from they were obtained. nt

[bossy22]

24. 2 handguns

one 9mm, one unspecified

probably from out of state- NYS has a strict handgun license/registration system...but who knows

[vduhr]

29. I just read this on MSNBC homepage

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30030756/?GT1=43001

This report says it was a high-powered rifle. I think, until the entire story gets out, we won't know for sure about the weapon(s). You know how the reports come flying out from the media before the details are fully known.

The reports says there will be a press conference at 4:30 Eastern time.

[TheWraith]

30. First reports are usually wrong.

And I'd trust the handgun report more anyway. Most mass killings are committed using handguns. For that matter, almost all murders involving a firearm are committed using handguns.

[Muttocracy]

33. local paper quoting the mayor as saying high-powered rifle. nt

[TheWraith]

34. The mayor was the original and only source for that claim.

The police have since said they recovered two pistols. We should know for sure soon.

[Muttocracy]

37. yep, press conf w/ mayor starts in a few minutes. another source said multiple weapons at site.nt

[Summermoondancer]

79. They were registered...apparently

the two Asian involved shootings that have happened including this one..both shooters were very good at obtaining their guns legally...question is how in the world would someone as loony as those two get a gun approved to them in the first place...many commented in both situations that both of them were completely off their rockers.

[RamboLiberal]

36. Some details from ABC

Voong entered the civic association armed with two heavy caliber automatic pistols – a 9 mm and a .45 caliber. He carried a bag filled with high capacity magazines, a survival knife and a flashlight, according to police.

Officials said Voong backed his car up to the rear door of the building to block any escape before he went to the front of the building and started to execute people.

Voong, 41, also known as Linh Phat Voong, was from Johnson City, N.Y. He allegedly burst into the civic center wearing a bright green nylon jacket and dark-rimmed glasses. Voong's body was found on first the floor with a hunting knife jammed into the waistband of his pants.

Police also contacted Voong's sister to say her brother was dead. She told police that Voong was attending language classes at the civic center. She said Voong is a U.S. citizen and has been in this country for 28 years.

Voong had recently been laid off from IBM in Johnson City, U.S. Rep. Maurice Hinchey, a Democrat whose district includes Binghamton told the Associated Press. The gunman opened fire on a citizenship class, he said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=7249853&page=1

[Muttocracy]

41. laid off :( for non-NYers, Johnson City is next to Binghamton. nt

[FudaFuda]

45. gotta love that extra verbage

'heavy caliber'

'automatic'

'high capacity magazines'


Where's 'the shoulder thing that goes up??'

[TheWraith]

48. ABC needs to hire some actual journalists.

"two heavy caliber automatic pistols – a 9 mm and a .45 caliber."

Automatic pistols are almost nonexistant in the US. They mean semi-automatic. And 9mm and .45 aren't "heavy caliber." They're the two most common types of handgun round. "Heavy caliber" would be something like a .50 AE.

"He carried a bag filled with high capacity magazines"

If you actually have a high capacity magazine, you don't need a bag full of them. Chances are these were standard 10-15 rounders, which some people mistakenly call "high capacity."

[RamboLiberal]

52. Journalists are stupid when it comes to guns

but sometimes they are just reporting what the cops are telling them as well.

[Muttocracy]

68. apparently not laid off from IBM - mixup with person with similar name:

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/03/shooting-in-binghamton/?hp

Updated | 7:59 p.m. A law-enforcement official said that Mr. Wong had a New York State pistol license that listed two pistols, a 45-caliber Beretta and a 9-mm Beretta. The authorities matched the serial numbers of two guns found with the gunman’s body to the serial numbers on his license. The authorities were trying to trace the guns to determine where Mr. Wong obtained them and their history.

Updated | 7:25 p.m. The New York Times has now identified the alleged shooter as Jiverly Wong, who used the alias Jiverly Voong, according to law-enforcement officials.

Updated | 7:05 p.m. There seems to be a mix-up about the alleged shooter, whose name police are still not releasing.

Representative Maurice Hinchey, whose district includes Binghamton, had told The New York Times and The Associated Press that the alleged shooter had been laid off from I.B.M. But a person familiar with the I.B.M. plant in Johnson City tells us that the alleged shooter did not work for I.B.M.

There is someone with the same last name as the alleged shooter who does contract work at the plant, the person said, but that worker was at the plant all day today and has not been laid off.

Updated | 6:30 p.m. The Binghamton Press & Sun-Bulletin says: “According to scanner reports, a 1993 Toyota at the scene was registered to Henry Voong of Johnson City.” Chief Zikuski said the perpetrator borrowed the car, apparently to attend a class at the Civic Association.

Updated | 6:02 p.m. We just had a short interview with Congressman Hinchey. We asked him about his earlier report that the gunman had been recently let go from I.B.M.

“That’s what I was told by several people, before and after I arrived here, but I don’t know if that’s the case,” he said. “I gave it great validity because it came from several sources, including law enforcement.”

But, he added, “Right now we know very little with absolute certainty, about who he was and what he was all about.”

Did the gunman randomly pick the civic center as the scene for the shooting or did he have a reason to be at that center?

“He went there purposefully and intentionally,” Mr. Hinchey said. Indications are that the gunman was an immigrant, from Vietnam, Mr. Hinchey said, adding that the car driven by the gunman was actually registered to his father.

“I can’t believe that this wonderful, beautiful little city would have this kind of experience,” he said. “It’s just amazing.”

[krispos42]

75. The 9mm and the .45 are about the same in terms of power

Although I'll note the .45 has considerably more momentum.


Both are extremely common self-defense handgun calibers... probably the MOST common self-defense calibers.

And both were created about a century ago.

[LuckyLib]

42. Our mental health services in this country are severly lacking.

We have so many needy people walking around out there. They've been integrated into the community, alright. They are in the community. And without access to the help they need, and with easy access to guns, they are poised to make their own statements.

[Summermoondancer]

43. ´Seems it was a US citizen of Vietnamese ancestry

He had recently been laid off from IBM...there has been a character on Topix that was calling himself Asian Man...and he was a virulent racist and anti immigrant and he was from NY...I am wondering if there was some connection? That is truly sad that a person finds the need to kill other people...these people were taking pre tests for their citizenship exam!

[vduhr]

49. Interesting

It's weird that he was Asian and racist, wouldn't his family have been immigrants? However, people who commit these type of acts can't be expected to be rational. Your comments about "Asian Man" being racist and anti-immigrant, plus being from New York, has now really made me think about who I might be engaging on a message board. I have seen some really irrational comments, and it has always made me think that perhaps that person could be someone who is on the edge and might be pushed over if one responds to them - that they might perceive a response as a challenge, or anything might set them off in some way. Now, I feel I should think twice about how I approach or respond to someone like that. You really never know who is on that keyboard on the other end.

[slackmaster]

54. There is nothing weird about someone being Asian and a racist - Japan is full of them

Many Japanese people think of Koreans as backward country bumpkins.

There were stories during the last summer Olympics about Chinese fear of black Americans.

During the "Boat People" migration of the mid-1970s, my mom and I volunteered to help hand out food and teach English to Southeast Asian people at Camp Pendleton here in Southern California.

The Marines quickly discovered that they had to segregate people by ethnicity. Laotians, Cambodians, Hmong, etc. did not get along with each other at all.

THIS JUST IN - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3814462

[Summermoondancer]

57. What gets me is the fact that

over on Topix there are actually people who are saying he should be declared a national hero!:-(

[RetroLounge]

50. More Guns! More Guns!

Arm everybody!

RL

[The abyss]

70. Seriously – that is not the issue

Prior to 1968 you could mail order anything available on the market, very “easy” access. I recall seeing CETME rifles available for just over a hundred dollars. An excellent condition Webley revolver went for about $15.00 and if your order was received by a certain date they threw in free ammo!

You could write your order in crayon on a brown paper bag and attach the money order, simple as that.

Nothing like these events occurred.

Now why is that? I don’t know what changed in our culture, I sure wish I did.

[RamboLiberal]

53. According to ABC News all the carnage occured in a 3 minute time frame

According to Binghamton Police Chief Joe Zikuski the gunman entered the one-story American Civic Association in downtown Binghamton at 10:31 a.m. today and began his shooting spree.

By 10:33 a.m., the shooting was over and 14 people -- including the gunman -- lay dead, the chief said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7249853&page=1

[jody]

56. Binghamton Rampage Leaves 14 Dead, Motive Unknown, Linh Phat Voong laid off from IBM

Binghamton Rampage Leaves 14 Dead, Motive Unknown (13WHAM.com)

Officials said Voong entered the civic association armed with two pistols -- a 9 mm and a .45 caliber handgun. He carried a bag filled with high capacity magazines, a survival knife and a flashlight, according to police.

Voong backed his car up to the rear door of the building to block any escape before he went to the front of the building and started to execute people, police said.

Voong, 41, also known as Linh Phat Voong, was from Johnson City, N.Y. He allegedly burst into the civic center wearing a bright green nylon jacket and dark-rimmed glasses and promptly shot two receptionists.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Police also contacted Voong's sister to say her brother was dead. She told police that Voong was attending language classes at the civic center. She said Voong is a U.S. citizen and has been in this country for 28 years.

[jody]

58. Sad things happen, Lam Luong tossed 4 children from Dauphin Island Bridge, AL

Jury urges death for man who tossed 4 from bridge

MOBILE, Ala. (AP) — A jobless shrimper who killed four young children by casting them from the top of an 80-foot-high Alabama bridge was sentenced to death by a jury Friday in a crime witnesses said followed an argument with the mother of the victims.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Luong's defense urged the jury to be merciful on the 38-year-old Vietnamese refugee, contending he had a mental breakdown and snapped before the killings. But prosecutors said Luong deserved to be executed for dropping the children — ages 3 years to 4 months — from the top of the bridge after arguing with his common-law wife, Kieu Phan, 23.

Luong fathered three of the victims — Hannah Luong, 2; Lindsey Luong, 1; and Danny Luong, 4 months — and one, Ryan Phan, 3, was Phan's child with another man.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

But a psychiatrist for the defense described Luong, who emigrated from Vietnam when he was 14, as having a major depression disorder and that drug use exacerbated his condition. He said Luong reached a critical point when he had no job or money.

[Sultana]

59. This remind me of Asian cultures and mental illness

Is it still a taboo topic in Asian cultures?


(apologies if it is a broad brush)

edit: clarification

[jody]

60. taboo topic? I thought about that before I posted the AL tragedy and decided to let the mods decide.

[Sultana]

64. Taboo in Asian cultures

[jody]

67. I understand, I spent several years in those countries. n/t

[renegade000]

61. Could you clarify?

What exactly do you mean by "Asian culture and mental illness"?

[Sultana]

62. It's not acceptable for someone to say they have depression etc...

There must be a sense of stigma/shame to admitting such a thing....

Newsweek link,

East Mind, West Mind
Mental health problems among Asian-Americans are often stigmatized and untreated. But doctors are finding ways to help.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/152315/page/1

[renegade000]

66. Thanks for the link

Looks like a good article.

[wickerwoman]

74. Yes, at least in China.

I talked about it with some students and its still seen as a major sign of weakness to admit that you have ever been to a psychologist. But marriage counseling is gaining some ground.

[and-justice-for-all]

65. What was the motive?

Did the dude just snap or what?

[ohio2007]

72. The killer, believed to be a Vietnamese immigrant

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iTkwh0jekRrls-b8ugkObNpK6XsQD97BB2BG0

Wonder if his name was Charlie



........


just sayin