Anti-Nato protesters torch Strasbourg buildings

[Turborama]

Source: Independent

Anti-Nato protesters set ablaze a hotel and a border post on the river Rhine today as riot police fired volleys of teargas and shock grenades to try to contain growing violence. Hundreds of demonstrators also torched tyres, smashed windows and ransacked shops in an escalation of rioting during a summit of Nato leaders in the French city of Strasbourg.

The worst of the violence was centred close to the French side of the Bridge of Europe - a road link over the river Rhine which connects France with Germany. The bridge is 5 km (3 miles) from the conference centre where 28 Nato leaders, including U.S. President Barack Obama, were meeting, and a pall of black smoke was clearly visible from the summit venue.

Reuters television crews said youths had set fire to an Ibis hotel, a one-storey border post and a third building that was not immediately identified.

A German first aide volunteer said around 50 people had been hurt in the clashes with riot police.

The demonstrators campaigning to have Nato disbanded following the end of the Cold War, had vowed to disrupt Saturday's meeting after two days of skirmishes with police. However, organisers said they had wanted a peaceful protest and expressed shock at the violence. "I am very angry. This was meant to be a peaceful demonstration ... and tonight, instead of images of peace we will see images of war," said Marie-George Buffet, a veteran leader of the French Communist party.

Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/antinato-protesters-torch-strasbourg-buildings-1662587.html

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Police, protesters clash in France at NATO summit

By SCOTT SAYARE and DAVID RISING – 46 minutes ago

Source: AP

STRASBOURG, France — Black-clad protesters attacked police and set a hotel and a customs station ablaze Saturday near a bridge linking France and Germany that served hours earlier as the backdrop for a show of unity by NATO leaders.

AP photographers saw other protesters storm a nearby Ibis hotel, setting fires and pilfering alcohol from its bar. An AP reporter saw intermittent scuffles between police and demonstrators in black as they gradually made their way back from the Europe Bridge. Stacks of old tires were also set ablaze, unleashing thick plumes of black smoke that could be seen from across the river. Near the bonfire was a sign welcoming visitors to Strasbourg.

First lady Michelle Obama and other spouses canceled a visit to a cancer hospital out of concern for security, the French president's office said. Some 1,000 protesters were staked out near the hospital they were to visit.

Some of the protesters say they want an end to war and call NATO a tool of Western imperialism. Others simply appear bent on causing chaos.

Read more (with pics): http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hEX3vl6l-WLObPNTMAwHO3GXvPyAD97BMBFO0

What do these idiots hope to achieve? I'm all for protesting - have been on several marches and rallies myself over the years - but mindless acts of violence like this are counter-productive.

[jefferson_dem]

1. Assholes.

n/t

[FailureToCommunicate]

2. "Others simply appear bent on causing chaos." Media always used to say that

about anti-war demonstrations in the 60's and 70's. If there was "violence" it was as often as not a police or FBI inside instigator.

[Posteritatis]

9. I'm sure it's comforting to tell yourself that (nt)

[FailureToCommunicate]

13. Been there. Got the tee shirt. Seen the freedom of information files. But I'm sure

you're right that the media is unbiased in these sorts of reports.

[KoKo]

16. exactly...this has been done before to disrupt those who peacefully protest.

Infiltrate and cause public opinion to be swayed against demonstrations on issues.

[Turborama]

3. Ibis hotel on fire (pic)

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7983335.stm

[DissedByBush]

4. Protesting the violence of war by...

Committing violent acts themselves.

That makes sense.

Why can't the anti-war protesters be like ones I saw outside of military installations in Germany? Those guys held solemn vigils without any shouting or violence and they got their point across much better. An honest person has to respect that even if he disagrees.

[KoKo]

18. When it's investigated perhaps we will find out who really torched the buildings.

Some of us here, who remember the disinfo by our Govt. in the 60's when peaceful groups were infiltrated by FBI/CIA to cause disruption are always wary when news reports come out blaming a peaceful group for sudden violence.

Best to wait and see. Hopefully the French will get to the bottom of this.

[DissedByBush]

20. My bets are on the protesters

I'm not going to believe a huge conspiracy for all of these G- and other protests that usually get violent that the governments had infiltrators in all of the organizations throughout all the countries where they've gotten violent.

[KoKo]

30. It's a matter of perception and how long one has been around to see

how "Disinformation" can take place by our Government...even here in America. Maybe you've been around that long and don't believe the reports of Congress and Study Groups. Or maybe you haven't and just don't know. But, it does go on and given the McCorporte Media we have today...we should all be wary of what is "instantly reported" and the denial is days down the road when folks have forgotten all the Hullabaloo. Just saying...

[DissedByBush]

34. I can see it happening in a few cases here

I can't see it happening in protests all over the world.

[ShortnFiery]

25. The MOST people in HISTORY protested the Iraq invasion - PEACEFULLY - did that stop the invasion?

I am NOT pro-violence. My hat's off to Code Pink by using outrageous outfits. After all - the KEY is to get MEDIA ATTENTION. :shrug:

[chascarrillo]

27. How did those peaceful solemn vigils work out for us?

[Telly Savalas]

32. So if a violent protest was actually the work of government plants

should the agent provacateurs still be praised for taking actions which are supposedly more effective than the non-violent strategy of the legitimate protesters?

[chascarrillo]

37. You didn't answer my question. Did the peaceful vigils work?

[Telly Savalas]

39. Your question wasn't directed at me personally was it?

I think all protests, non-violent or violent, are somewhat limited in their effectiveness in promoting social change, and it's not really clear how throwing a brick through a window enhances their effectiveness.

And you're not answering my question either.

Every time the issue of violent protests comes up there are two knee jerk yet contradictory responses:

1. Violent protests are more effective than non-violent protests
2. All violent protesters are covert government agents seeking to disrupt the peaceful protest

I find it odd that you never see anyone at DU saying that response 1 is wrong because of response 2, or vice versa.

[Flagg]

5. France really doesn't need more burning buildings

[mbperrin]

6. Just a thought..."protesters" didn't win either the American or the French revolution.

And unless we consider Jefferson, Franklin, Hamilton as mindless, violence may very well have its uses.

[Turborama]

8. So, it's ok to burn down hotels and ruin people's lives for no apparent reason?

The violent struggle of the romantically titled "American Revolution" is known as both "The American WAR of Independence" & "The American Revolutionary WAR".

The French Revolution led to the country being run by Napoleon, a violent dictator.

"These changes were accompanied by violent turmoil which included the trial and execution of the king, vast bloodshed and repression during the Reign of Terror, and warfare involving every other major European power. Subsequent events that can be traced to the Revolution include the Napoleonic Wars"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolutionary_Wars

Plus, it was Louis the XVI of France (the one who had his head chopped off) who ironically assisted America in it's Revolution.

[mbperrin]

10. Mmmmm..perhaps if you took a bit of time, you'd see these folks have

reasons.

All the events of the past got us to where we're at now.

You're suggesting that protesting would have resulted in the creation of the United States of America?

Or that protesting to Louis would have resulting in the modern French democracy?

My response was meant to indicate a counter to the idea that all violence is either mindless or resultless.

[cali]

11. I'd wager that this particular crew doesn't have reasons

you do realize that some of these folks are simply hooligans engaging in violence for the thrill of it all.

That said, I'm not arguing the point you're trying to make.

[mbperrin]

12. Thank you. And I would never argue that all violence is purpose-driven,

either. As usual, some middle ground is the answer.

[chascarrillo]

22. Yes. People normally risk major jail time just for the thrill of it all.

Makes sense.

[cali]

33. drunken assholes often don't think about the repercussions.

Duh. And there have been multiple reports by participants in protests this week, that there are drunken assholes present at the protests in London and in France.

[chascarrillo]

36. What evidence do you have that the arsonists were drunk?

Waiting.

Waiting.

Waiting.

[Turborama]

38. AP photographers saw other protesters storm a nearby Ibis hotel, setting fires and pilfering alcohol

From the OP.

Maybe they got drunk afterwards, maybe they just felt like taking it because it was there, maybe they wanted to carry on drinking or maybe the AP photographers were lying for some reason.

I guess we'll never know the full story...

[Turborama]

14. I'm not saying anything about protesting.

I'm saying that they were both wars and if these people are really "anti-war" it would be hypocritical for them to start one.

Are you saying that they thought that burning hotels and the suchlike (which could have cost people's lives and will certainly mean employees are going to have to take forced leave during the repairs and maybe some could be laid off due to low occupancy) is going to help them reach their goal the same way that the two revolutions you mentioned did?

Also, I don't need to "take time" to see that 'these folks' are arsonists who are using the NATO
meeting to get their kicks. I saw the events unfold live on TV (I'll add a yotube link when I find one) and one of them was interviewed, his motive for smashing stuff up was, "I'm anti-establishment!". Erm... ok. There are also reports from different sources of shops and hotels having their alcohol looted. Woohoo, it's all one big nihilistic party, maaan!

(On edit) I'm not trying to have an argument, just a debate. In fact, and on reading your reply above to Cali, I do agree that in certain circumstances it can be effective - the Poll Tax riots in London helped stop the said tax from coming into existence as planned and assisted in bringing down Margaret Thatcher. However, in this particular instance these activities in the OP can be defined as mindless violence, IMO.

[ShortnFiery]

23. I gotta hand it to the disenfranchised youth, France does know how to host a RIOT.

:shrug:

[DissedByBush]

35. They did protest

Then the British sent troops to crush the brewing rebellion. Then they defended themselves.

[ShareTheWoods]

7. Michelle Obama and other spouses canceled a visit to a cancer hospital

Message from protesters: Mission Accomplished.

Idiots.

[Ravachol]

15. You mean protests directed at NATO...

Forced first ladies to cancel a photo-op at a cancer hospital?

We should message all protesters next time so they avoid disrupting any remotely tied to your leader.

[cali]

17. these protests were disrupted by

a bunch of yobs into violence, not politics. And I rather doubt that the vast majority of the protestors appreciated their antics.

[Ravachol]

21. According to reports I've read on the news...

Her trip (along with other First spouses) to that hospital was canceled not due to violence but due to the fact that there was more than a thousand protesters near the hospital (a few streets from it, actually).

I seriously doubt there was a thousand violent protesters, out of a crowd of five thousands or so. Thus I assume that her visit was canceled simply because the crowd of protesters were near the hospital or too close to the taste of her security team. That's why I objected to the above post who described protesters as idiots who were trying to prevent Michelle from going to that hospital (I actually doubt much people in that crowd would know where she was supposed to go or would really think about disrupting her visit).

Also and while I am not defending the damage done to property, some "leaders" seem to think they own the protests and that everyone should behave the way they want. For example, that quote of Marie-Georges Buffet and her increasingly irrelevant PCF, in the OP.

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. Setting fire to a budget hotel is hardly a protest against NATO

They should do something symbolic at a military base if NATO is their concern.

[KoKo]

31. Question is ...until there's full investigation ...how do we know "WHO" set that fire?

Protestors, Finge Group or WHAT? :shrug:

[Sultana]

24. Fuck the arsonists

absolutely senseless:mad:

[ShortnFiery]

26. FUCK The Masters of War!

Who send our children to kill and die ONLY to prop up the corporations at the trough of the Military Industrial Complex.

EVIL! :nuke:

[Sultana]

28. Yea, that too

I am going to a contextual analysis of Eisenhower's Farewell Address & MIC, I probably should be working on it, hehe.

[ShortnFiery]

29. OK, that's cool.

Hey, there's no easy answers but I hear ya: Fuck Violence too! :hi: