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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 09:30 AM
Original message
Holder Not Reviewing Siegelman Prosecution
Edited on Fri Apr-10-09 09:31 AM by kpete
Source: Congressional Quarterly

Holder Not Reviewing Siegelman Prosecution

By Keith Perine | April 9, 2009 4:03 PM |

Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. is moving to revamp Justice Department procedures in the wake of the prosecutorial debacle in the Ted Stevens case. But Holder said today that he is not reviewing the Justice Department's prosecution of former Alabama Gov. Donald Siegelman on corruption charges, nor other corruption cases involving Alaskan officials.

The House Judiciary Committee has been probing allegations that the Siegelman case was politically motivated by the Bush administration. Siegelman, a Democrat, was convicted in 2006.

"I don't have any reviews under way at this point, but I always want to ensure that the Justice Department acts in a way that is consistent with the long tradition of this great department," Holder said.

Holder, who has been sounding out attorneys throughout the department's Criminal Division, is preparing to announce some changes in the department's procedures for such prosecutions, however.


Read more: http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/legal_beat/2009/04/holder-not-reviewing-siegelman.html
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. I just got a reply from an email...
I sent asking they review Sigelman's case. I thought it was obvious there was no review underway...why else would Governor Siegelman ask that we send emails requesting one?
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Unless cap (below) is right, a briefer message, "Remember. What comes round goes round, no
Edited on Fri Apr-10-09 10:43 AM by Joe Chi Minh
matter how big you've become", might be more to the point.
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livvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. People need to keep writing.
I got the acknowledgement that my letter was received, but nothing else. I posted this before, but here it is again. Please write.

A call-to-arms from Don Siegelman
Posted by mcmApril 7, 2009

Dear Supporter,
I need your help on a critical issue. Time is of the essence. I’m asking that you email influential editors and Attorney General Eric Holder.

Attorney General Holder recently abandoned the conviction against former U.S. Senator Ted Stevens (R). His decision had nothing to do with the merits of the Stevens case, but was based on misconduct on the part of the Department of Justice. Attorney General Holder did the right thing.

It’s been a long time since we have seen the DOJ act courageously. Attorney General Holder’s action gives me hope that justice can be restored and our democracy can be preserved.

An important difference between the Stevens case and my case is that I was not accused of taking even a penny for myself. In my case there are many instances of government wrongdoing. American Trial Lawyer Magazine tagged me as America’s number one “Political Prisoner,” Time Magazine said I was a victim of selective prosecution, and CBS’s 60 Minutes exposed that the government used false testimony to convict me and withheld critical documents from my lawyers. The House Judiciary Committee even has sworn testimony that Karl Rove was involved in my prosecution as well as other serious prosecutorial misconduct.

snip

After reading the letter, please email the following editors commending Eric Holder for helping to restore justice by dropping the charges against Senator Stevens but suggesting that the gross prosecutorial misconduct in my case far exceeds the misconduct in the Stevens case. Tell them the Attorney General should investigate my case and that, when he does, he will find it cries out for justice and should also be dismissed.

Please email your comments to:

Adam Cohen, Editorial Page Editor of the New York Times at adam@nytimes.com
Fred Hiatt, Editorial Page Editor of the Washington Post at hiattf@washpost.com
Bruce Dold, Editorial Page Editor of the Chicago Tribune at brucedold@tribune.com
Cynthia Tucker, Editorial Page Editor for the Atlanta Journal Constitutional at Cynthia@ajc.com
I am also asking that you write to Attorney General Holder at AskDOJ@usdoj.gov to express your support for his courageous step toward restoring justice and encourage him to help right the wrongs in my case as well.


http://markcrispinmiller.com/2009/04/a-call-to-arms-from-don-siegelman.html
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
22. It won't be reviewed because Siegelman case was always about keeping Bush in office past 2004,
Edited on Fri Apr-10-09 11:55 AM by blm
and that is what ESTABLISHMENT Dems and McAuliffe's DNC wanted.....and why Dem party refused to rally to Siegelman's defense after he was cheated in 2002's election theft along with other targeted Democrats.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
57. Corporate Dems don't want to do anything about election fraud. Their silence
regarding Gore, Siegelman and then Kerry is one of the reasons why I can't support in any way.

The Siegelman case opens the can of worms known as election fraud. :mad:
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sansf Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #22
59. but it is not over
Siegelman still faces conviction. So Bush made it to 2008, and Siegelman still needs help. Keep calling/writing. Canary is still a US attorney. This case has no precedent and should never have been prosecuted.
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. the criminal division has been corrupted
that's why seligman can't be rehabilitated. Until the criminal division has been cleaned out, Holder can't do much.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
74. When 50 US Attorneys write letters to the DoJ claiming a miscarriage of Justice it should be looked
into .
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. It should have taken priority over the Steven's case. Blatant miscarriage of justice..
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. Noted by 50 previous USAs and the compromised USA is still handling the case???
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. Does Holder need to be hit in the head with a bolt of lightning???
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #77
78. Jumps at the snap of fingers to help a corrupt republican out on a technicality
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. But moves like a snail to get involved with an innocent railroaded Dem.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. Sieglman was abused, shackled, gagged, put in solitary confinement, and moved prison to prison
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #80
81. Had an election stolen from him...Nothing happened to Stevens and he is guilty.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. So far Holder is as bad as Mukasey and Gonzales.Talks a good line but just talk
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dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
4. Typical Obama Adminstration Bull shit
They are more worried about making Republicans happy than Democrats
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I am beginning to agree with you, DBJ
it's getting very discouraging watching the entire Rove administration get away with everything up to and including murder. I had high hopes but they're being dashed daily. I won't be volunteering or sending any money in 2010 or 2012 unless they start serving MY interests instead of the repukes'
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DebbieCDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
46. I'm beginning to agree with you too
And it saddens and sickens me after what we went through to get Obama elected, THIS is result? I am seriously upset over this trend I see developing.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Did you get Seigelman's email?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Typical hate bullshit
from you.
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dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. And typical blind Obama ass-kissing from you
You messiah is far from perfect. Open your fucking eyes, and help us make sure obama is a true democrat, not a Neo-con-lite.

Unless, of course, that is what you like, which I am beginning to think so.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
56. HEAR FUCKING HEAR
NT!

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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
66. Agreed. And well said.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
70. I guess you too didn't respond..
to Governor Seigelman's email request. Sad.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
84. .
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spiritual_gunfighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
48. what dbackjon said x 2 n/t
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
62. We all voted for President Obama
but we are justifiably disappointed.
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flashsmith Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. It's clear that Obama is a Republicrat
He says bad things about the Republicans but refuses to prosecute them, no matter what the crime, and continues carry forward their agenda, when he shouldn't be giving them the time of day.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
38. I've just about had it
Yes, I'll give President Obama the benefit of the doubt, more than 90 days, blah, blah, blah. But he has not even made a token effort to reach out to his base. The bumper sticker is off the car, and I want to something.

I'm APPALLED at letting Stevens go but letting Siegleman rot. Disgusting.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
64. Maybe That's Why He's President
The path of least resistance, you know. They knew no repuke was gonna win, so, well, maybe a compromise?
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
95. Totally ridiculous accusation - go back and read the OP again, with an OPEN mind!
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TEmperorHasNoClothes Donating Member (356 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. why the fuck not?????????????? Outrageous
Siegelman and the american people deserve better than that.
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antimatter98 Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
7. Holder helped Chiquita Brands get off from funding killers in Columbia....
Holder is all about perverted justice, just as the BushCo AG's were. We have
no idea how dangerous Holder is to America---yet. Stay tuned.

http://www.cipcol.org/?p=703
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. no he didn't. he played no part in any criminal case against Chiquita
he negotiated a settlement that Chiquita paid. That's what lawyers do.
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
44. When he "negotiated a settlement that Chiquita paid" - that insured that there would be NO
criminal charges.

It's called buying the decision.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
10. knr n/t
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. Holder is completely useless
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
99. a Nation of Cowards looks on with astonishment
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. recommend
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
stlsaxman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
36. moderators alerted.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. I thought Nora Dannehy was investigating the corruption
Nora Dannehy subpoenas Pete Domenici...

Here we go kids:

A federal prosecutor investigating the dismissal of nine U.S. attorneys during the Bush administration has issued a subpoena to former senator Pete V. Domenici (R-N.M.) and is preparing to interview key witnesses, lawyers following the case say.

Nora R. Dannehy, a public corruption prosecutor who helped convict Connecticut's GOP governor four years ago, was named last year to go to Capitol Hill and the Bush White House, where government officials declined to provide voluntary testimony to the Justice Department inspector general probing the firings.

At the time, Inspector General Glenn A. Fine urged prosecutors to use their subpoena power to compel documents and testimony about the dismissal of New Mexico U.S. Attorney David C. Iglesias, whose pace on criminal investigations involving Democrats in the state drew complaints from Domenici and then-Rep. Heather A. Wilson (R-N.M.).

The Dannehy investigation appears to be intensifying with the disclosure that she will interview former White House political affairs deputy J. Scott Jennings as early as today, lawyers involved in the case said. Jennings worked alongside Karl Rove, a top aide to President George W. Bush.

Now, what of those US Attorneys who were not fired?

http://www.atlargely.com/2009/02/nora-dannehy-subpoenas-pete-domenici.html

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pjt7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. merh
you're article is from Feb.

What is Nora Dannehy currently doing with this case?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I would assume she is still investigating things.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
21. Don asks us to write: AskDOJ@usdoj.gov. Please do it this weekend!
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JPZenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Update on the Case
http://openleft.com/diary/12077/

The above link has a good update on the case, particularly the decision of the 3 Bush-appointed members of the Court of Appeals.

By the way, Laura G. Canary STILL has not been replaced as a US Attorney in Alabama. If they can't get rid of the worst of the Bush US. Attorneys first, there is something very wrong.

(There are a few Bush-appointed US Attorneys in other areas who aren't that bad and could stay).

I sent my email to the AG and encourage everyone else to do the same thing.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Thank you! n/t
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Done! Husband wrote too! n/t
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raysr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
23. I don't think
Obama isn't what we thought he was going to be. I'm disappointed. I'm not saying McNuts would have better, no way. I don't think we had any good choices.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
24. Is there some evil force that corrupts every decider in the Oval Orifice? n/t
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
50. Yes, there is - it's called the corporatocracy,
also known as the military-industrial complex. The POTUS (no matter who it is) isn't actually the Chief Executive. He is merely the chief vassal to the feudal overlords. That's becoming more and more obvious every day.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. What IS he reviewing?
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. The list of former Goldman Sachs guys who are looking for work.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #28
85. Bwahahaha!
:spray:

That about sums it up.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
29. I can't imagine a good excuse for not reviewing the Siegelman case. nt
Edited on Fri Apr-10-09 12:40 PM by polichick
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
71. Governor Siegleman just sent out an email...
in the last couple of days asking people to write emails to the editors of I think 3 newspapers, as well as Holder asking him to review his case. Apparently people are not interested in doing that, but instead appear angry that Holder is not as yet reviewing the case, that has not come up for review, and that he has not been asked to review. I get very confused.
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
31. "Democrats commit crimes, Republicans commit technicalities..."
Holder seems to have adopted Kay Bailey Hutchison's philosophy and you have to wonder if it reflects the philosophy of Barack Obama.

In reality, it's a matter of Republicrats committing technicalities - everyone else commits crimes.

Instead of bailing out Wall Street, for instance, Wall Street should be "denied bail" and sent to prison. But, well, they have the money. And the money talks. That's what this new party, the Republicrat Party, is all about. The money. And obviously when money talks, rule of law walks. Right out the window. Particularly at the Justice Department.

Sorry but the reality is this is not the Obama Administration. It is the Clinton Administration. And like the Clinton Administration before it, it serves the Bushes and those who serve what the Bushes serve. The oligarchy. Rather than the democracy.

?




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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #31
45. And any smart alec who dares to rock the vote on behalf of justice
for everyone and the Constitution gets outed for sexual dalliances or other nonsense. That's the way it works.
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Joey Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
32. I don't get it
If any case deserves to be reviewed its Siegelman's.
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NoName Left Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
33. "I don't have any reviews under way at this point"...
I am not on my way out of town for the weekend "at this point". I am not changing the oil in my car "at this point". I am not writing my masters thesis "at this point".

There are other things I am doing "at this point". That does not mean that I will not be doing the above mentioned things in the future...whether tomorrow, next month or at an as yet unspecified date.

If you aren't doing exactly what I expect of you - right now - then you're a loser! No matter that you might be laying plans and putting pieces in place to accomplish what I expect - without keeping me (and my adversaries) informed of every step you're taking, you are worthless!

Contacting Holder, editors, etc. is a responsible thing to do. However, knee-jerk assertions that Holder will not be reviewing Siegelman's case - ever! - is a shallow, uninformed demand for Immediate Gratification.

Rampant cynicism and expectations of instant gratification are two unattractive and irrational characteristics of our society "at this point" in time.
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. It should have been the FIRST thing he reviewed...
The Siegelman case should have been the very first case reviewed because it appears to be tied into other matters such as the matter of the "replacement policy" with regard to the US Attorneys.

But then those other matters are connected to other matters and those other matters worry quite a few Democrats as well as Republicans. Republicrats all.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Agree COMPLETELY -- Siegelman was out by the election ...
and his case was getting publicity. The replacement of Canary
ought to have been ITEM NUMBER ONE on Holder's "To Do" list once
he was named as A.G.

Aren't ALL U.S. ATTORNEYS supposed to resign when a new administration
comes in (especially one of the opposing party)? If they haven't
tendered their resignations already, shouldn't Holder and his staff
BE REQUESTING THEM? The fucking Justice Department is dysfunctional --
and leaving all those politically-motivated Bushies in place is
unconscionable ... ESPECIALLY LAURA (sp?) CANARY ...
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
72. The attorney general firing scandal...
is still an open case with a special prosecutor appointed to it. Governor Siegelman sent out an email 2 days ago I believe, in which he requested us to send emails to 3 different newspaper editors as well as Holder requesting a review of his case. It appears that reviews of a case happen either at request or when a review is in order prior to prosecution, or appeal? In any case, if every person who is outraged that there is no review already underway would take a minute and do as Governor Siegelman requested....ah..never mind. Silly me.
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Mark D. Donating Member (420 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
34. This Is Serious
Wrongful prosecution in Stevens' case according to them. A Senator with a lot more evidence of wrong-doing. Won't touch Siegelman's case, despite the obvious not-so-hidden hand of Rove et al. This is disgusting on Holder and Obama's part. This is not the change I'd voted for, this is no change at all. In my opinion, Obama himself should review the situation and then pardon Siegelman. But at the very least, all the things that cut Stevens loose should apply in Siegelman's case. I swear to God, it feels like Bush is still in office with this kind of bullshit.
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road2000 Donating Member (995 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
60. Did you mean "pardon" Siegelman?
Edited on Fri Apr-10-09 05:06 PM by road2000
Or did you mean "dismiss the charges", which is what should be done.
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felinetta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
37. Somehow it looks like the Republicans are still pulling the strings
Why does Holder uphold the law for REPUBLICAN Stevens and back
away from Rove?  
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #37
55. That's what I'm thinking
Increasingly, it looks like the Bush Admin never left the building.

We may just have a new front-man for the same rulers.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #55
86. Meet the New Boss......
Same as the Old Boss.

I knew it as soon as Obama started picking his cabinet.

Change We Can Make Believe In.

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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
39. How much MORE proof do the worshipers here need to recognize that Obama is not
that much better than Shrub was or McInsane would have been?

In a direct comparison - there is a minor difference.

On any expansive continuum, not enough space to slip a piece of paper between.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. You have a point...
I initially supported Kucinich until he dropped out of the race (not much media coverage). Then I went with Edwards until he dropped out. I remember though he came in second place in Iowa but the next morning, I only heard the names "Hillary" and "Obama" (first and third places, I believe). I remember thinking, "What's up, now?"

If Kucinich had won the Dem primary and gone on to win the White House, I would bet he'd be going after the BushCo criminals!
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #39
52. Obama is a LOT better than Shrub or McSame.
the problem is that he really doesn't have all that much power, in the sense of true autonomy. See my reply #50.
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Baby Snooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #52
92. He has to power to "hire" the Attorney General...
And he also has the power to "fire" the Attorney General.
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chknltl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #39
54. I'm fairly sure the citizens of Iran can suggest at least one significant difference.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3851426890212250833

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67ANtTZpCmE&feature=related

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29785710/

Oddly enough, I'm thinking the citizens of Iran get this 'miner difference' and no, they aren't at all 'worshipers' of President Obama.

I wanted the Kooch for POTUS, it didn't turn out that way. President bush and the bfee had no interest in listening to us, I doubt mCain would have been any better. President Obama otoh is at least a bit more responsive to We The People than either bush or mCain. I dunno, I once heard that we go to war with the troops we have. I suppose we could stand around calling each other names ('worshipers'/'freepers') and piss each other off while our troops wander off on their own or we could pull together and try to give those troops a little direction-as is being suggested in this thread.


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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
65. I Want To See Someone Defend this, If They Can
None of the "usual suspects" here. Why?
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
42. Continue to lobby Obama, your rep's, Senators, etc. - election was step 1, keep the pressure on.
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Why. The Dems are not listening. They are only responding to attacks from the reich
and trying to please their corporate owners and the rethugs.

Liberals are kept in the outer reaches of "free speech zones." We can yell, but they do not even hear us.

Maybe the next nominee from our party will be a Democrat.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #43
69. How do you know they're not listening..
Edited on Fri Apr-10-09 11:28 PM by stillcool
when no one is calling? What do you think would happen if 1% of the American people picked up the phone and called their Representatives? Anything could happen..it's never been done before.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #69
88. Bullshit.
80%+ of Americans were against the initial Bailout (under Bush).

Our Democratic-controlled Congress passed it, no questions asked.

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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #88
98. And did those 80% actually let their...
objections be known to those who do the voting on their behalf, or is that some poll number you are citing? I remember it very well. I still am not convinced whether it was necessary or not, or if it worked or not..but then...speaking of bullshit...I'm not nearly as smart about the Global Financial System is as so many brilliant DU'ers are.
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #69
89. I call and email all the time. SOMEtimes, I used to get an automated email response
saying they would get back to me at some point in the future, but they never did. Now, I don't even get an automated email response. And I live in Massachusetts, in a Democratic Congressional district.
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SlowDownFast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #43
87. I'm about DONE with the Democratic Party.
The two party system is a sham.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
47. This is not acceptable!
Chiquita Holder let off a repubic who was corrupt because of prosecutor misconduct, yet says fuck you to an innocent Democrat whose case involved prosecutor shenanigans?

Forget Hope and Change, I've lost faith in the present administration. Hell, I can't even watch the president w/o thinking, it's just more lies and more snuggling up to the wealthy.

Obama sucked up all of the energy and support he was given during the campaign, then spit on the very people that got him elected.
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Metta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
49. A gross injustice. Happy karma, Eric.
Unless there' a technicality that this post hasn't made clear as to prerequisite to his actions. I'm thinking more and more that O wants to keep Thugs happy instead of pursuing truth and justice.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
53. This is insane -- especially for Democrats!!!
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. but...
wasn't equally insane that they didn't want to fight for the seats they won (think 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006)? I really believe the establishment or whatever you want to call them-do not want the vote in the hands of the people.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #58
67. Yes, and . . .
Even with all of the BS fascist moves by Bushco in 2000, press still says Gore won
"no matter how you count the votes." I remember that Bush was down to like 57 or 34
votes at one point. Pretty obvious they were going to have to stop the recounts and
not let them restart.

There was a lot of power behind these steals, obviously -- and IMO there would have
had to have been many spontaneous demonstrations all over America to stop Bushco.
Meanwhile, Gore sent Jesse Jackson home from the demonstrations he was leading in
the "butterfly ballot" area.

There's only one way the right can come to power -- political violence/stealing votes/
propaganda. The computers began to come in during the mid-late-1960's, givingthem the
ability to steal larger blocs of voters over longer distances.
Just about the time they passed The Voting Rights Act.
IMO, every Republican "win" since Nixon/Humphrey is in question.

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antimatter98 Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
61. Time to face it: Obama lacks integrity and respect for the Constitution. Impeachment is in order.
no more to say. n/t
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #61
90. Did you work to impeach Bush and Cheney?
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #61
96. "no more to say", like you said ANYTHING?????
Are you a freeper plant here?
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
63. One More Thing To Add To My List
I've got a feeling that's all it'll ever amount to, but it's on my list anyway. My vote in 2012 isn't looking all that automatic any more.
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gmpierce Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
68. what did you expect
None of this should be a surprise. We have had 8+ years of surveillance. Most of us are on a list somewhere, but no one takes any of us seriously.

On the other hand, by now there is a complete dossier on every member of Congress - names, dates, amounts and so on. It probably includes most significant members of state legislatures and anyone else with any amount of power.

Of course, this could be simple paranoia. So what's your explanation for what has been going on?

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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
73. THIS IS A B.S. HEADLINE AND STORY,
Edited on Fri Apr-10-09 11:18 PM by elleng
as it does NOT go so far as to tell the whole truth. What else is new? The full story has been posted here at DU. Folks, open your eyes. kpete, you should do better.

'Defense attorneys for former Alabama governor Don Siegelman (D), for instance, recently sent a letter to Holder asking him to reopen the case for their client, who was convicted for his role in a corruption scheme. The ethics unit is investigating the lawyers who prosecuted Siegelman and was nearing the release of a report, which now may be delayed because of the new leadership within the OPR.'
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20 ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5425395&mesg_id=5432260


Sorry, kpete, if my admonishment not timely. It seems perfectly clear that Holder etc are trying to get their very difficult chores at doj in order, and will look at Siegelman when they have time.
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pam4water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
83. Fuck him,
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No Elephants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
91. In fairness, Holder said only that a review is not underway now. He did not say he has no plans to
review the case ever, or even starting next week.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
93. Why was Stevens case reviewed? Here is what LegalSchnauzer suggests:
-snip

Why would Holder focus on the misconduct in the Stevens case before considering Siegelman? We can take a few guesses:

* The trial judge in the Stevens case helped bring the prosecutorial misconduct to light. The trial judge in the Siegelman case, Mark Fuller, was part of the misconduct and corruption.

* Stevens was represented by the Washington, D.C., law firm of Williams & Connolly. That's the same firm that produced Obama White House Counsel Greg Craig. And that's the same Greg Craig who, according to Alabama whistleblower Jill Simpson, appears to be providing cover for a number of his former firm's GOP clients--including Karl Rove.

So that's how it works in D.C. these days? If you are a Republican with ties to Williams & Connolly, your case gets reviewed and dismissed? If you don't have those precious W&C ties, you are out of luck?
-snip

http://legalschnauzer.blogspot.com/2009/04/curious-juxtaposition-of-ted-stevens.html

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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
94. Your post is misleading........implying that Holder will NEVER look into it!
Did you miss this in your own post?

" "I don't have any reviews under way at this point, but I always want to ensure that the Justice Department acts in a way that is consistent with the long tradition of this great department," Holder said. "

Try to be honest in your portrayal of Holder, okay?
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #94
97. This is the Title of the article, not something that kpete invented.
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 09:34 AM by Mass
So call CQ and protest, if you are not happy.
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