Pirates want $2 million for American hostage - source

[sabra]

Source: Reuters

MOGADISHU, April 10 (Reuters) - Pirates holding an American hostage on a drifting lifeboat want $2 million for his release, a fellow pirate onshore said on Friday.

The pirate, speaking to Reuters from Haradheere port, also said other pirates were taking a hijacked German ship, with foreign crew on board, towards the scene in the Indian Ocean where the lifeboat is floating, watched by U.S. warships.

"Knowing that the Americans will not destroy this German ship and its foreign crew, they (the pirates) hope they can meet their friends on the lifeboat," said the pirate, who has given reliable information in the past but asked for his name not to be used. (Reporting by Abdi Guled; Writing by Andrew Cawthorne)

Read more: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LA580277.htm

[Renew Deal]

1. The pirates have a death wish.

And I hope their wish is granted.

[gusandra]

44. The pirates are fighting for their lives! It's the multi-nationals that have a death wish!

This is supposed to be a site for progressives, but when certain issues arise, like Somali pirates. Almost everyone on this forum becomes John Wayne, or the current version of a right-wing racist cowboy.
If the warships in the area would stop the illegal fishing and dumping of toxic wastes of the coast of Somalia, the piracy would stop as well.
Stop blaming the victims of neo-liberal economics and neo-conservative politics. And lighten up on the racism.

[Renew Deal]

54. Do you want to give the pirates a hug?

Give me your address. I'll send over 4 armed thugs to steal your stuff and take you hostage. We'll see who you want to blame for what at that point.

Also, welcome to DU. :hi:

[ohio2007]

57. Maybe there is a wish to pay the pirate families if the pirates get their 'booty's handed to them

[Zodiak]

67. I don't think that posted argued that we should hug the pirates

Issuing strawman arguments is hardly a way to welcome a person to DU.

[onehandle]

55. Peace, love, dope.

That better?

[cali]

60. dog, I hate stupid.

just can't stand it. most people here aren't interested in a John Wayne scenario. They're interested in this incident ending peacefully. Furthermore. the suggestion that warships should police Somali waters and international waters beyond, is incredibly ludicrous- and naive. As is the delusion that piracy would end should this magically happen.

Stop the idiotic reflexive crap that this is wholly the fault of evil imperialist neo-liberal westerners. It's far more nuanced than that, genius.

welcome to DU. Or is it rewelcome?

[auburnblu]

62. You are crazy

You really think that the pirates care about toxic waste dumping, no they care about $$$.

And this will really make you sad, they believe it or not don't listen to or take orders from the "I'm enlightened" crowd.

[slackmaster]

65. There is no honor among pirates

They are scum.

[conspirator]

85. I thought there was a pirate code nt

[petronius]

91. Pa-? Parl-? Aarr, what's that damn word again!?

:)

[mountainvue]

70. Pizza! Party of one. n/t

[JeanGrey]

73. OH I see. If I quit walking around in a mini skirt, the rapists

would leave me alone, right?

[ohio2007]

88. If they see your naked ankle....hey, U asked for it. no court is going to lock them up

for your lustfull taunts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXcUpUNxUrM

what ?
to soon ?

:sarcasm:

[christx30]

90. So if the illegal

fishing was stopped, they could make a little money on that. Or they could keep up the piracy, and continue making millions. How much have they gotten in ransom so far? I mean, the $2 million that they want for the American captain is a pittance, really.
The crews of the ships have been consistantly doscile and given up easily. There was little risk to doing it. They just climb aboard, flash their weapons around, and get millions for their trouble. What were to happen if the crews would fight back in a brutal way? If there was real risk involved with doing this? You go out to hijack a ship and there was a very good chance that you might not come back? You might not be so eager to join up. This isn't John Wayne thinking here. This is people that is tired of crime. I mean, do you think someone that robs a liquor store is justified? You ok with home invaders? To me, it's the same thing, just on a grander scale.
The ship crews need to start putting barbed wire along the top edge of the ship, to make climbing aboard harder to do. And, while they are not allowed to carry weapons, there is probably nothing stopping medival weapons. Rocks, gasoline, ect would make a wonderful deterrant.

[RantinRavin]

2. As Richard Pryor said about kidnapping

"Well just don't fuck up the suit. That's what we going to be burying him in"

[ardvark]

3. they should have just asked for a bailout - nt

[Marrah_G]

4. I think they should give him up for the sheer gratitude of not starving/dehyhdrating to death

[xchrom]

5. i hope they like being hungry. nt

[hugo_from_TN]

23. They have several weeks worth of food on the life boat.

[Buns_of_Fire]

56. From what I heard (no, I can't remember where) it was eight days worth of provisions.

But then, I assume that was for a "full load" -- not for four pirates and a hostage.

I'd also heard (again, from one of the cable news people), that the pirates had said they were fully prepared to execute the hostage -- as the Navy is, again I assume, fully prepared to blow their asses out of the water.

I hope the negotiators have their shit together.

[ohio2007]

58. ..water water everywhere but not a drop

to drink.

Did you personally see to the food supplies of the boat ?

[jpak]

66. Those life boats are designed to accomodate dozens of passengers

The boat is self-righting and each passenger has a full body harness to keep them from flying around the inside in rough seas.

Each passenger has water and food rations and there is a susbstantial first aid kit aboard.

There is a head (toilet) and enough fuel for 24 hours of powered operation.

Ye pirates can hold out for quite a while if they want...

[ohio2007]

86. but the navy already "gave" them food if you spotted that snipit from various sources

No mention of the navy offering the true staple of life.

Maybe the preserved food wasn't halal ? Articles didn't say what kind of food was given them. Doubt it was pork rinds.That would make them thirsty LOL ;)

[Sgent]

92. Those rafts have water makers on board

even recreational vessel life rafts carry water makers, I can't imagine one like that not having one.

[ohio2007]

93. maybe those boys didn't understand how to use the survival gear

the story is just getting started

[cali]

6. they're clueless

there is no way they're getting a ransom of any amount now that the U.S. military is involved.

[Mike Daniels]

14. There's no way either the government or the company can pay off the ransom

without the US looking like it got played by a bunch of punks in speedboats holding RPGS and machine guns.

Frankly, unless the US is set to track these guys by satellite and rain death on their camp shortly after this is resolved I don't know how we get out of this without basically telling the world that the US can be blackmailed by a 3rd world country.

[jaysunb]

17. The country of Somolia isn't the blackmailer.

N/T

[Mike Daniels]

18. Fine, blackmailed by 3rd world thugs who can't be restrained by their country of residence

[conspirator]

38. well bush and cheney were 1st world thugs that could not be restrained by

their country of residence...

[razorman]

22. No, it just shelters them.

[pattmarty]

36. One small comment on RPG's and machine guns (AK's);

Look at all the small insurgencies all over the world. I am sometimes prone to overstatement from time to time, but I have said before, give me an RPG and an AK-47 and I'll take over the world. Those 2 items in a small bands hands can create havoc (see Iraq). I agree that they are a "bunch of punks" and also now the US military is involved (and Obama a new president) that this has the potential to end up bad for the brave Captain, and much worse for the "punks".

[hendo]

7. the US needs to send in Covert Ops.

Seriously, why haven't these pirates recieved some well placed headshots yet?

[Posteritatis]

15. 'Cause hitting a bobbing target from another bobbing platform's so easy, right? (nt)

[hendo]

41. It can be done by someone with the proper training.

In real life, not just in a movie.

edit: and I never claimed it was easy, thats why these guys are special ops. They can do a lot of things that the average American is unable to do.

[tomm2thumbs]

43. exactly and I don't picture a Navy Destroyer bobbing up and down like a cork

or are Navy Destroyers made of styrofoam nowdays?

[TorchTheWitch]

77. I think the poster meant SEALS

Which could be done I believe. The bigger issue is the Somali pirates also hold over 50 hostages from various countries in other vessels... if we get the captain back and blow them to hell, it's a no-brainer that the other Somali pirates currently holding all those other hostages may start getting violent. So far, the pirates have not gotten violent in any of these incidents and have been happy just getting the ransom money they request and letting the hostages go while they escape unharmed. Probably the best thing to do is try to negotiate the captain back. Then immediately get the international community together (which it has already decided to do) and start arming merchant ships. Because the pirates always get paid off for the return of the hostages they take, they've been running roughshod over the area getting more greedy and more bold.

[Blue_Tires]

20. they stay inside and covered all the portholes....iirc

[tomm2thumbs]

21. exactly - what are all these high tech 'tools' for if they can't operate when needed

[razorman]

30. I'd like to see the sun rise on a mysteriously empty lifeboat,

the hostage captain safely aboard a U.S. Navy ship with the pirates having inexplicably "fallen overboard" somehow.

[tomreedtoon]

37. Where are our much-vaunted Navy Seals?

Why don't we hear about the pirates mysteriously ending up dead, and the hostage mysteriously in the sick bay of a Navy ship? And nobody knowing what happened or who did it?

Or are those Navy Seals just a legend developed to squeeze more appropriations out of Congress?

[Xithras]

48. Nobody needs to shoot anyone. A quiet drill could fix this

One frog with an underwater drill, after dark, could pop a smallish hole in the boat in an inconspicuous spot (preferably one they couldn't plug easily). The boat starts to slowly sink (very slowly, like over hours) and the pirates are faced with a simple choice...surrender, or drown.

These guys aren't religious nuts who plan on giving their lives for some diety. They are pirates who want money, mostly fishermen looking for a payoff. I doubt that any of them are so devoted that they'd rather die than surrender.

[tclambert]

64. That's the scenario I like.

I was thinking a small demo charge to blow a hole in the hull, big enough so the bilge pump can't keep up with it.

Plan B: Pay the ransom, get the hostage safe, blow the pirates out of the water. Pirates are the purest form of capitlaists. To stop piracy we must convince them the cost of doing business is too high.

[mbperrin]

8. These guys need to read a bit of history. The Marines were CREATED to

deal with pirates.

Well, they're about to learn a lot in the little time they have left...

[MADem]

11. To the shores of Tripoli.....

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/barbary.htm

[Thothmes]

74. Marines were created to enforce

discipline on Navy Ships. They were there to keep the crews in line. Fighting pirates came along later.

[craiga86]

9. Haha

I wish we could just put these pirates to shame right away. These guys on little boats shouldn't be able to bark demands to a U.S. Navy ship. Give me a break!

[Mari333]

10. ooooo those pirates are going to Davy Jones locker soon

I dont think they realized what they are dealing with.

[Barack_America]

12. I imagine that our military presence there is costing us more that $2 million a day.

All covert opps situation requires risking American lives.

$2 million might just be a bargain to end this.

The problem is not these pirates, but whoever is coordinating them from the shore.

[cali]

13. ridiculous. first of all those resources are out there anyway

why do you think it costs so much more to move them 300 miles than it would if they weren't moved to the site? And it is a piss poor idea for the or any other country to pay ransom.

[Barack_America]

19. It's not just ships. There are drones and aircraft involved as well.

Are you suggesting that they normally patrol this area?

That costs money.

A dead or injured Navy SEAL is furthermore not worth $2 million.

Finally, US forces may learn more about who is in charge of this operation by paying out the money and seeing who gets this.

There are a lot of reasons to consider paying out the money that don't involved being "weak".

[cali]

25. It will never happen. never.

no matter how much it costs. And it's about setting a precedent that encourages such actions by other parties. It's absurd to even speculate on this.

[Barack_America]

32. Of course it won't.

Just look at how many people on this thread have their chests puffed out over our military's strength.

But it would be tactically (not politically) smart to offer the pirates $2 million apiece in exchange for the captain's life and information about who is running this operation and how. That's the only thing that could prevent this from happening again. Killing/apprehending these pirates will do little to prevent future attacks.

[Posteritatis]

34. So precisely how much is a dead or injured Navy SEAL worth?

I mean, if we're going to be assigning monetary value to people as though they were the ships they crewed, defining terms helps.

[Barack_America]

35. Not a question I could answer.

Would you trade one of their lives for $2 million?

[Posteritatis]

39. I refuse to define a human's value in monetary terms (nt)

[Renew Deal]

40. The question is...How much is our freedom worth?

And how much is protecting this country and it's citizens worth?

[Barack_America]

45. Do you see these pirates as a direct threat to our freedom?

How so?

[Renew Deal]

53. I see them as a threat to our citizens

The last thing I want to see is a room full of American hostages with armed criminals.

[auburnblu]

63. They took U.S. citizens hostage

Do you or do you not agree that a U.S. citizen being taken hostage in international waters is infringing upon the freedom of a citizen of the U.S. Probably not, like the Italian leader views the earthquake aftermath, you perhaps view it as a camping experience and chance to meet someone new.

And what about the French citzens on a sailboat taken hostage. Should France have called "enlightened" members of DU to see how they could sensitively respond while the hostages were being carried back to Somalia for an entertaining "vacation"?

[Mike Daniels]

16. If the US pays or allows the company to pay ransom after setting up a standoff

Obama's administration will be a lame duck within months.

Once the military became involved this became a referendum on how Obama's administration can respond to a crisis. To bow down to the pirates will diminish the USA's standing and influence significantly.

[Barack_America]

24. Probably.

But any other solution is going to cost us more than $2 million.

I certainly understand that force will be used here, just look at how many DUers on this thread are salivating over our military might. I understand that it's very hard to break the ingrained belief that any slight must be met with overwhelming force.

That being said, I still think that if we were thinking perfectly rationally about this situation, there are arguments to be made for just paying the money.

[stray cat]

46. If I kidnapped someone for ransom - they wouldn't pay me and let me go to save money

[JeanGrey]

75. SLIGHT? Taking a ship at SEA, kidnapping and

all the rest are slights? Whoo boy.

[razorman]

26. I'm afraid you are right.

If the pirates are allowed to go free, especially with a ransom, this WILL happen again soon.

[Barack_America]

29. It will happen again soon anyway.

Blowing a few pirates out of the water is not going to deter another attack.

The people in charge of this operation are not in that boat.

[razorman]

31. That's why we need to do as President Jefferson did, and go after their shore HQ.

We know where they are.

[Barack_America]

33. Do we?

Do we know who they are?

If we don't, bribing the pirates we have contact with could be a very useful thing.

It won't happen, but it could be useful.

[stray cat]

47. The guilty ones are in the lifeboat I don't know where the others are

[razorman]

83. Their base is a town called Eyl, Somalia.

[TorchTheWitch]

78. It's been happening frequently for a long time

This is NOT an isolated incident. Somali pirates have been doing this for quite some time. This is just the first time that Americans were taken hostage. Right now other Somali pirates hold over 50 hostages from various countries on other vessels some of whom have been held for months. So far, none of the pirates have been violent as they've been getting paid off and allowed to escape unharmed. Over time they've gotten bolder and greedier, which is hardly surprising.

Ships have been patroling the area for the pirates for quite some time but have been unsuccessful because the area is enormous and the pirates have been able to evade capture.

I agree that all this time paying ransoms without the international community coming together to actually seriously deal with the problem has been a mistake. At this point, they've apparently come to the realization that it is high time that something effective be done to deal with the problem (like arming merchant ships).

[hugo_from_TN]

28. Exactly.

Paying the ransom or botching the operation would be a major political problem for Obama.

The Navy should block the German ship from getting close.

[Spouting Horn]

79. What makes you think

paying the ransom would "end this?"

If we paid the ransom, it would mark the beginning of more hijackings of American ships.

"Millions for defense, not a penny for tribute!"

[Blue_Tires]

27. this isn't going to end well for somebody

pirates should probably surrender and keep on living....

[Barack_America]

49. The problem is that we're not negotiating with the pirates on the boat.

We're negotiating with whoever is controlling this from the shore.

We're negotiating with someone who is not in danger and knows that the pirates in the boat have something of value.

And that's the problem. If the pirates on the boat don't give up the captain, they're probably dead. And if they do give up the captain (without ransom), they're probably dead too.

But we can't give ransom and save face.

Big problem.

[stray cat]

42. If they kill the hostage they are all dead

[ohio2007]

50. Hostage dies as French attack Somali pirates

CNN) -- A French hostage and two pirates died Friday in a rescue operation off Somalia's coastline, the French president's office in Paris said Friday.



The French military decided to move in when pirates refused their offers and increased threats against the hostages, it said.

snip

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/10/somalia.france/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Rewarding pirates with ransome $$ isn't the answer. It has been tried...... Its said to be the only "viable" solution :crazy:

they should be made to sign something as a promise to stop at the end of this year.... :sarcasm:

[sattahipdeep]

51. pirates sank their speedboat WTF

Phillips is reported to have convinced the gunmen to board the lifeboat after agreeing to go with them in order to secure the safety of his fellow sailors.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/10/somali-pirates-hostage-us-miltary

The crew managed to regain control of the ship from the pirates by "brute force", according to another crew member's account.

:wtf:

According to second mate Ken Quinn, who spoke by telephone to CNN, the pirates sank their speedboat shortly after boarding the Alabama early on Wednesday. The crew managed to regain control of the ship from the pirates by "brute force", according to another crew member's account. Phillips is reported to have convinced the gunmen to board the lifeboat after agreeing to go with them in order to secure the safety of his fellow sailors.

"brute force" :wtf:
sank their speedboat :wtf:
The crew managed to regain control of the ship :wtf:
:crazy:
Phillips is reported to have convinced the gunmen to board the lifeboat after agreeing to go with them

[ohio2007]

59. Maybe the orders of "black beard" were: " Don't come back in the boat we sent you off in"

the pirates sank their speedboat shortly after boarding the Alabama

they were on a one way mission for captin god.

they failed miserably

[Epiphany4z]

52. guess they missed the news

we gave it all the the banks

[digidigido]

61. whatever happened to "we don't negotiate with terrorists"?

[kiranon]

76. They're pirates. The shipping company is negotiating; US is standing by.

It works out better this way and gets the US out of the political light where it can maneuver.

[cali]

80. how do you know the company is currently negotiating?

I rather doubt the Navy is letting that happen.

[TorchTheWitch]

84. It's a coordinated effort between the Navy and the FBI

That's what all the news reports have been saying for days. Apparently the FBI was brought in since they have the experience in dealing with hostage crisis. Ain't no way it's the company doing the negotiating anymore than the parents of a kidnapped child would be.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

68. Sorry. I thought this was a Barry Bonds thread.

:blush:

[Zodiak]

69. Pay them

De-escalate the situation. But pay them only in cash. We can track a boat by satellite pretty easily, so it is no matter to get the hostage from the payment, follow the German ship, and then place a small team in to take out the pirates (we may even be able to trace the cash itself). Hopefully this will result in very little risk to innocents, and it will show the pirates that they cannot win at this game if there is nowhere to hide.

Also, pay them in US currency. By the time they get to port, it has probably lost value. LOL.

Oh, and one more thing. Work to get a stable government in Somalia that has the power to patrol its own waters to prevent dumping and over-fishing by foreigners. This takes away any motivation for piracy, and certainly cuts off public support for such actions.

Some of these pirates have no problem dying for their cause because they are desperate. I do not think that these particular pirates are of that variety, though, as evidenced by their willingness to go a full 350 miles out and reneging on deals to get more $$.

[kiranon]

71. Agree shipping company should pay them. Navy can take care of the

pirates afterwords and at a time and place of the Navy's choosing.

[ohio2007]

87. You should then pay a "pirate tax". Thomas Jefferson would not agree with your point of view

"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute"

snip
...by 1783 America became solely responsible for the safety of its own commerce and citizens with the end of the Revolution. Without the means or the authority to field a naval force necessary to protect their ships in the Mediterranean, the nascent U.S. government took a pragmatic, but ultimately self-destructive route. In 1784, the United States Congress allocated money for payment of tribute to the Barbary pirates and instructed her British and French ambassadors (John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, respectively) to look for opportunities to negotiate peace treaties with the Barbary nations. Unfortunately, the price demanded for these treaties far exceeded the amount that Congress had budgeted.

In 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman or (Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). Upon inquiring "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every muslim who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once. <2> <3>

Jefferson reported the conversation to Secretary of State John Jay, who submitted the Ambassador's comments and offer to Congress. Jefferson argued that paying tribute would encourage more attacks. Although John Adams agreed with Jefferson, he believed that circumstances forced the U.S. to pay tribute until an adequate navy could be built.

snip
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

Now we have the navy....
but it's time to stop being "policeman for the world"

[JeanGrey]

72. And we'll probably give it to them.

[Earth_First]

81. They are drifting on a lifeboat?!

...and they believe they have the upper hand in this situation?!

[Deja Q]

82. I'm sure this was already said, but where's Dr. Evil to team up with these clods?

As quoted from Wikipedia:

Dr. Evil seems to have a problem in general with understanding money, especially regarding the modern American economy and inflation. In the first film, he intends to hold the world ransom for $1 million, but doesn't understand that $1 million isn't as large a sum of money as it was in the 1960s, because of inflation, and the demand causes the U.N. to burst out laughing. In the second film, however, Dr. Evil goes back to 1969 and plans to hold the world ransom for $100 billion, an amount of money that didn't exist back then, and when he tells the amount to the President, he receives a similar reaction from the first film when the President and his cabinet laugh at him. In the second film, Dr. Evil says, "Why make trillions when we can make...BILLIONS?," not knowing that trillions are larger than billions. In the third movie, he demands "1 billion, gagillion, fafillion, shabolubalu million illion yillion...yen." This time his demand is met with simple confusion from the world leaders.

And there you have it.

[elleng]

89. SOMALI PIRATES IN GERMAN SHIP FAIL TO FIND COMRADES.

MOGADISHU (Reuters) filed 8:35 am et - Pirates on a German ship with 24 foreign hostages said on Saturday they had returned to the Somali coast after failing to locate the scene of a standoff involving an American captive on a drifting lifeboat.

The pirates had hoped to use the hijacked 20,000-tonne container vessel, Hansa Stavanger, as a "shield" to reach fellow pirates holding American ship captain Richard Phillips far out in the Indian Ocean. U.S. naval ships are close to the lifeboat.

"We have come back to Haradheere coast. We could not locate the lifeboat," one pirate on the German ship, who identified himself as Suleiman, told Reuters.

The German ship was seized off south Somalia between Kenya and the Seychelles and has a crew of 24.

Somali elders and relatives of pirates holding Phillips are planning a mediation mission, a regional maritime group said.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/04/11/news/news-us-somalia-piracy.html