Mich. college locked down; gunman reported inside--2 Dead

[tekisui]

Source: AP

DEARBORN, Mich. – Broadcasters are reporting that a Michigan community college is on lockdown because of a gunman on campus.

A woman who answered the phone in the president's office at Henry Ford Community College Friday told The Associated Press that police have secured the area but there was a gunman at the Dearborn school.

Dearborn police and the campus security say they are dealing with an emergency and are unable to provide any information.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090410/ap_on_re_us/michigan_college_gunman

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. what's with this gunmen thing?

almost every hour someone is shot! Is this country nuts?

[tekisui]

2. Far too many in this country are not getting mental health treatment,

combined with desperate economic situations.

[The Hope Mobile]

4. Yeah, good thing we're not getting them decent health care . . .

much better to pay for all the ruined lives as a result of all these shootings. :sarcasm:

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure - monetarily and emotionally.

[WriteDown]

5. A good idea would be that when UHC...

is finally established to include a mental health assessment in addition to annual or bi-annual physical checkups.

[JeanGrey]

46. When it is established? ROTFLMAO I doubt seriously

I will live to see that, I don't have 20 years left.

[YOY]

14. Nail meet hammer.

n.t.

[fascisthunter]

22. .

[aquart]

3. Yes. Next question.

[TheEuclideanOne]

12. When the economy is in bad shape, people resort to crime.

[nichomachus]

19. I'm not sure it's necessarily economy related, but

there is a real climate of hate and fear that is being propagated by the right wing. Just talk to a Republican and you hear the most outrageous nonsense about Obama being a marxist (I wish), wanting to confiscate everyone's guns, trying to bankrupt the country so his Mulsim handlers can take over -- and this is before you get to the antics of people like Glen Beck. We can make fun of Beck and his ilk, but these people take him seriously. There is a real pathology growing.

Add to it the nonsense being propagated about the "gay agenda" and all the other horseshit these people flog mercilessly.

If I could, I would be out of here in a heartbeat. I think we're on the verge of a national nervous breakdown -- and that always ends poorly.

[Romulox]

27. No offense, but I doubt your analysis has anything to do with this event

Dearborn Michigan is not a "rightwing" town, nor is anti-Muslim propaganda popular here...try google to find out why! :hi:

[Cal Carpenter]

32. LOL!

;)

[nichomachus]

33. I didn't say Dearborn was either of those

I'm just saying that there's a lot of craziness floating around everywhere.

There's sort of a meltdown on DU with the Obama fan club swooning at every photo of him and shrieking like their hair is on fire if anyone dares to question anything he's doing.



Even here -- rational discussion are getting harder and harder to have.

[JeanGrey]

47. LOL! I'm sorry but that just cracked

me up! Thanks for the smile...............

[FailureToCommunicate]

28. 30,000 gun deaths/year divided by 365 and 24 hours = 3-4 per hour killed by guns

Doing the math is something the NRA tries very hard keep out of the media.

from CDC and DOJ

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/pub-res/firarmsu.htm

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm

[ArcticFox]

37. And how many by politicians? By cars? By _______.

Seriously. How many did Bush and Congress and hence you and I kill in Iraq and Afganistan in the last 8 years? How many did Hitler kill after the Germans lost their right to bear arms? How many die in auto accidents daily?

[FailureToCommunicate]

44. About 115 die per day in auto accidents or 42,000/year. Sure that is about

10,000 more per year that death by guns but , I'm not sure what your point is. Although I'm gonna guess that since you wonder if I have the answer to how many Hitler killed after those
poor defenseless Germans had "lost their right to bear arms" that you may be a hopeless 2nd amendment gun rights nut. Am I close? You see it's easy to spot folks that spout nonsense from
NRA literature and websites. (Hint: In germany there was never a second amendment 'right to bear arms' Why? They never had a bill of rights like ours. How do I know? I lived there for many years-
in Bethel near Bielefeld, northern Germany (the British Sector)

Oh and welcome to DU by the way...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

64. I agree auto accidents are under reported

guns aren't really accidents. Iraq was no accident.

[pipoman]

76. Funny that

you posted two links, the first from 1994 at the peak of so called 'gun violence', but which information is out dated. We no longer need to speculate if the trend was going to continue, it didn't as is demonstrated by your 2nd link.

Violence in general is cyclical and related to economics more than any other factor. It has nothing to do with the number of guns. Guns don't spoil or degrade. The number of guns increases every single year. If 'gun violence' were related to the number of guns the graph on your second link wouldn't be possible...that is gun homicides (and homicides in general) have declined to 30 year lows since 1994.

[ArcticFox]

36. Yes, the COUNTRY is nuts

The country is insane. The political establishment is insane. The "justice" is insane. Seeing all these Big Fat Cats get away with murder and treason and looting and blackmail and on and on and on has got to be a big factor as to why these individual shooters are "going insane."

When insanity is all around, the sane are easily mistaken for crazy.

If the stupid Obama administration would simply impose the rule of law evenly and round up and prosecute these Fat Cats, we'd have a lot less problem with these shootings.

I haven't read the rest of the posts, but I certainly hope they're not anti-gun. I don't have one yet, but the only reason those in power aren't rounding US up is that we aren't yet defenseless. The reason for this is not guns; it is caused by the utter insanity of our society.

[SharonAnn]

65. Let me guess. It's a man who shot women and then himself.

[tekisui]

6. 2 reported dead

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/10/mich.college.shooting/index.html

[Jefferson23]

10. There needs to be public announcements and often, on TV and radio

openly addressing this problem by offering hotlines and clinics for FREE help for anyone experiencing such thoughts of desperation and or anger. Seriously, what are we doing that is in any way pro-active here?

[SharonAnn]

66. Looks like I was right. Next we'll find out that she was leaving/had already left him.

Something involved with her "rejecting" him.

[xchrom]

7. recommend

[onehandle]

8. Wait a minute. Did they use a gun or a pipe wrench?

We've been informed in the gun dungeon that guns are "an inanimate object, for fucks sake, a tool."

[polichick]

13. I saw that and almost commented - but you can't get through to gun clingers.

[YOY]

17. Would that be pointed out by the guy who posted an "interesting" Ann Coulter post yesterday?

And has a handle so much like mine that it bother's me?

[JeanGrey]

48. That would be correct. Guns cannot walk. They cannot

fire themselves, they can't skip or run. They require human involvement, so yes, they are inanimate objects. Since this is obvious I'm not sure of your point?

[Pavulon]

50. You drink?, then you are complicit, this is what you promote

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4055343

you are responsible for these people bleeding out. You promote demand for an eeevil product. We would all be better off with no alcohol.

Hmm. Now how do DWI fuckers impact my ability to be responsible with booze? Or firearms? Not one fucking bit, alex

[Blandocyte]

60. The topic is guns

which kill with the pull of a trigger. I'll give you a bottle of cabernet, and I'll have an AR, and we'll see who wins the shootout...

[Pavulon]

68. I give you a yaris and I have suburban you are fucked

i drink that bottle and get out my blackberry start some texting and you are double fucked. But hey lets blame that SUV not the shitfaced driver.

Please find an new cause. This one is washed up.

Your ability to drink and not murder people with your car is the same as my right to own a firearm. Except your drunkenness is not mentioned in a constitutional amendment.

[Blandocyte]

71. Guns

The guy chose a gun so he could kill people. I don't think he said, "I'm going to take them out... I'll just drink this bottle of Yellow Tail, get into my SUV, point it at those mother efferz and text!" No, he got crazy and angry and grabbed a gun.

Saying that there are other ways that people are killed doesn't change the fact that guns make it too easy to kill. We're gathering more and more popular support to reduce the number of guns eassily available. That's a good thing.

[Pavulon]

74. Nope you are really not. The party has figured out that rat trap.

they have figured out gun control is a hopeless scam that does not deal with root cause of any driving problems behind violence.

[tomm2thumbs]

9. geeesh - it's becoming a one-a-week nightmare

and such random locations

[crim son]

11. Jeebus. I thought we were going to go four days without another shooting.

Nope.

[FailureToCommunicate]

29. About 3 an hour for death by gunshot. Hard to keep up. And that's not counting

pipe wrenches...

[Barack_America]

30. Four days?

We haven't even gone one day.

[crim son]

39. I know.

I picked a random, low number.

[Chulanowa]

15. Well, if there's ONE good thing about this...

It's that nobody infringed on this man's 2nd amendment rights!

[FailureToCommunicate]

31. Or on Michael Savage's 1st amendment rights to spew hate speech... Or these others:

The Rush Limbaugh Show Broadcast live at: 12:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m. ET

The Sean Hannity Show Broadcast live at: 3:00 to 6:00 p.m. ET

Michael Medved Show Broadcast live at: 3:00 to 6:00 p.m. ET

The Michael Reagan Talk Show Broadcast live at: 6:00 to 10:00 p.m. ET

The Savage Nation Broadcast live at: 7:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. ET

The G. Gordon Liddy Show Broadcast live at: 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. ET

Neal Boortz Show Broadcast live at: 10:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. ET

The Glenn Beck Program Broadcast live at: 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m ET

The Mike Gallagher Show Broadcast live at: 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. Eastern Time

[poboyross]

38. I hate to tell you this....

But there's no such thing as hate speech, in legal terms, and nor should there be. I know, I know, all of those European countries who have created laws saying there is such a thing, and made it so you can be prosecuted for it. However, who determines what hate speech is? You? A panel of biased people on one side or the other? Give me a break. Maddow, Olbermann, O'Reilly, Hannity......it's all the same, just what particular brand of "truth" you ascribe to. They hate on your beliefs, you hate on theirs. Harden up, get a thicker skin, and convince people the old fashion way....through numbers, discussion, and a reasonably amiable attitude. It's easy to try and take power and then outlaw what you see as wrong, but you never convince anyone. One can't spend their time saying someone is "unpatriotic" for not agreeing with them.

Hate Speech=Free Speech for everyone, dumb, malicious, hateful ideas or not. It's the burden of a completely free society. Make one type of speech prosecutable, and you open yourself up to the same thing should your side lose power.

On a side note, there are approx. 195000 malpractice deaths per year in the U.S.. This is an absolute epidemic gone completely out of control. Thus, I believe we should revoke *all* medical professionals licensing until one central government body under the guidance of a "Medical Czar". This czar would be able to look at each person and determine if their mental stability might lend itself to checking the wrong boxes on medical forms, or worse yet....misfiling records. Obviously, those privately educated medical practitioners cannot be trusted with our health, just LOOK at those numbers. The answer is U.S. Govt educated and sanctioned medical professionals, we'll put chips in their noggins so we'll know where they are and if they're being used improperly. We'll make surprise visits to hospitals to make sure there aren't any of those nasty privately educated doctors from horrid places like Columbia, Harvard, or Princeton peddling their dangerous knowledge and procedures on an unwitting public. We'll make sure that they only live in the hospital, under lock and key, and are only allowed out to do their jobs while we watch their *every* move. It just might work....now all we need are the votes....

[Quantess]

40. Well yeah, the First Amendment protects free speech, even hate speech.

I believe the neo-nazis engage in hate speech, but not in their own opinions.
I don't think the DUer above is suggesting abolishing the 1st Amendment.

[depakid]

41. Doesn't protect the right to broadcast it on the public airwaves with impunity

[Quantess]

42. I know. Tell that to poboyross. (no text)

[depakid]

43. 1st Amendment absolutists differ little from 2nd Amendment absolutists

They neither understand the body of law- nor the reasons why the cases were decided- or statutes enacted the way they were in first place.

[poboyross]

53. Oh, I understand it....

Because you can't deem a point of view illegal or hate speech, because you run the risk of that wheel turning and then rolling over you should the other side control the govt. again. All law must be judged on the basis if it is constitutional, not if you like it or if it's a "law". Just because it's the body of law doesn't make it truly legal when held to the light of the founding documents. How many here howl about Prop 8, when it's obviously unconstitutional, and have an absolutist point of view on that....yet conveniently flip when it relates to something they don't like. Welcome to that group.

[depakid]

56. Things like the Fairness doctrine and the public interest standard in broadcast licensing

are perfectly constitutional- and promote the values behind the 1st Amendment.

If Glen Beck wants to go shout around in the park- or wants to print hateful pamphlets- he can do so, though in the event he incites violence or riots- or defames someone- then he's apt to be held accountable.

[poboyross]

62. I'm no fan of Beck.

The few times I've watched him, I felt as if I were losing my mind. However, having the fairness doctrine would mean that there would need to be a group who defined who was conservative, and who was liberal. How do you pick these even-keeled people to perform this task. What criteria do you use? Does this mean that Bill Maher gets to have a show opposite Hannity? Does it mean that Maddow gets to sit opposite of Limbaugh? It's a mess.

Then there's the issue of profit, if MSNBC is intensely profitable in the Northwest and then they have to air the Rush hour as dictated by the fairness doctrine, they might likely lose vast amounts of money as opposed to airing people that are their demographic. The same goes for the South. It may "provide" a "fair" perspective....but if the station doesn't make money, you lose the shows you like. It has to remain a market determined line up. If you want a bigger share of the market, then you have to bring people to your side.

Also, I would be interested to hear the background and basis as to why it promotes the values behind the 1st Amendment. Any legal precedent that has also gone unchallenged would be good to see as well. The government may license the airwaves, and monitor them for content that has been determined illicit....but it has no constitutional right to them or to regulate the content beyond illegal activity and illicit actions; and especially regulate any network based on philosophy. To do so is to violate the 1st Amendment.

[poboyross]

49. It protects all points of view.....

Just because the FCC exists, doesn't give it the right to regulate speech of any type as long as it doesn't break the law, if it does (threats against the President, public official, etc etc), then that has to be proven in court. Any such law that gives them the ability to get in the way of any point of view is thus unconstitutional. If laws are broken by a broadcast or network, then laws are in place to prosecute them.

[FailureToCommunicate]

51. On Savage's regular show not only is there hate speech on public airways subject to

FCC licensing regulations, on Tuesday evening he and a caller were bantering about the desire to "take out" Obama. As in with a gun. I am pretty sure
that even if that were a first amendment issue, the Secret Service might be interested in it.

[poboyross]

54. Then as a responsible citizen, Savage should turn over the info....

No matter who the President is, those statements are always illegal, treasonous, and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. If Savage wants to get in the way, then prosecute him, too.

[FailureToCommunicate]

55. Michael Savage, a responsible citizen? You perhaps have never heard his show...

[poboyross]

58. Actually, we don't get it out here....probably best from what I hear

Thus he's never in the news here. I've only heard several snippets of what he's said whenever there was a brouhaha big enough to warrant national coverage. It sounded pretty outrageous.

[FailureToCommunicate]

63. Let's just say Savage makes Glen Beck seem "fair and balanced" by comparison.

[FailureToCommunicate]

45. Not sure what you're driving at here

[poboyross]

61. I think what I'm driving at is

That there may be all sorts of folks out there, drumming up anger and that definitely influences people's mindsets. Perhaps it drives them closer to the edge, and then their minds just snap. I think that might well be the case with all of these shootings. I don't know all of the political affiliations of the shooters, just the fellow in Philly. I think that all of the networks are preaching gloom and doom.....the "vast" right wing conspiracy...."Obama's gonna getcha", so on and so on. I just think there's a lot of people out there, no matter their affiliation, that are hurting and in a whole lot of trouble. I was listening to Bob Beckel this evening, and he was talking about crises and how its just sad that the hope and benefit that we're all yearning for is being implemented by those with dirty hands. More importantly, he mentioned about how while the perception of gloom and doom does help get some good changes made, continuing to rely on it will have a damaging effect in the long run, which I also infer to mean the increase in social hostility.

The point about the airwaves, as it relates to what I'm driving at, is just implementing fairness doctrine or deeming someone's point of view hate speech doesn't do the job. It's the same as going to another country, and killing a man for his cause. You only end up creating more followers. It easy to fire a shot, but hard to change a mind; however, the only lasting change comes with the latter. I don't deem people lost causes, I just say I need another way of approach that is more effective, yet doesn't make me the villain.

[TorchTheWitch]

70. There was a mass shooting in Philly?

When was this? Why was this not reported on the Philly local news?

[poboyross]

72. Many apologies......I meant Pittsburgh.

Sorry for that.

[FailureToCommunicate]

75. Okay. But I'm not just one person saying his is hate speech. An entertainer on radio

under the guise of being a political commentator is using public airwaves to broadcast messages that stir up feelings in
people that have lots of weapons and not a lot of options at civil discourse. People get shot (the church folks) Cops get shot
(Pittsburgh) bad things happen. Savage and his fellow entertainers go home to their gated communities with their fat paychecks and
gloat that they are NOT in the areas where mayhem is unleashed. In Savage's case I say he crossed the line joking about the President
'needing to be taken out' but we'll let the Secret Service decide that one. You're right, poboyross, there is not a lot one can do. Except to write representatives
to renew some sore of public air wave fairness policy, to also boycott the companies that advertise on those stations, and to vote for a better day...
People going out to kill others cause their OWN lives are so screwed up is bad ju ju.
God help us all.

[poboyross]

77. It's verrrrry bad ju ju...

I think it's more of a statement of the poor condition of American society than it is the presence of weaponry, though. While I would never trade our govt. for theirs, the Swedes who have been through military service keep auto-capable military weaponry locked up in their homes after they have done their service, yet they don't go on rampages. A lot of Americans are just plain unstable, regardless of personal philosophy. We're a product of the misplaced values that have been steeping for several decades.

I wouldn't care if it was half the country that thought it was hate speech. There's no such thing as hate speech. Hate speech inherently gives preference to certain social groups over others. I would say that no matter the commentator, if they broke the law by calling for illegal actions then that should be how it is prosecuted. Hate speech legislation is a slippery slope and not needed. If Savage did indeed call for or suggest "taking out" the president, then that should be investigated and prosecuted if deemed a violation of law. It's no different than someone suggesting that of *any* President, all incidents should be handled that way.

[FailureToCommunicate]

78. That sounds like a reasonable response except for one small fact. There is not, has not

been any comparable "hate radio" on the progressive side - small though it is. You say it a slippery slope to name call the one side. I think if you really look into the recent history
of talk radio, you will be unable to site more than one or two examples of progressive "hate speech" radio. In theory I agree with you. Problem is I've seen no example of 'the other side' of hate radio.

[poboyross]

79. I'm just saying...

Many things that were created out of the idea of being beneficial, end up coming to bite you when that wheel turns. The idea of being able to wiretap suspected terrorists...good idea! The implementation of that....not so great. Sometimes the most direct route seems to be the easiest, pass a law. However, passing laws generally leads to them being used on those who passed them when power changes hands.

[iamthebandfanman]

35. i think the good thing is

that these nut-cases are exposing themselves and either dying or being locked up.


its so sad that people have to lose their life this way.

[Chulanowa]

69. Now see, I was being sarcastic...

Just to check, are you being serious about it being a good thing that so many people have been killed, just to expose the "dangerous ones"?

[Carni]

16. Wow my daughter has been there

When she was in grade school she took a field trip to see a play there.

That campus would be a nightmare to secure.

[RebelOne]

18. There has been an update.

Click on the link. Police believe it to be a murder-suicide.

[Barack_America]

23. It wouldn't be a day in the US that ends in "y" without one.

:eyes:

[DS1]

20. The US is in Rampage mode ala Unreal Tournament

[fascisthunter]

21. looks like most of those gun nuts bought their guns for a reason

afterall.

[Pavulon]

52. You ever drink? you are a murderer

you promote this. Responsible you say, you create demand for an EVIL product. We must ban this product for the good of everyone.

I mean gun death is a drop in the bucket compared to the carnage dwi causes. You drink, right. Then you are the same as this man.

This stupid bullshit argument does not work for booze or legal ownership of firearms.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4055343

[Blandocyte]

59. My Chard Bottle's Empty

I throw it away. I don't reload it with a 30 round mag. Quit smokescreening. This is about guns. Guns kill as easily as pulling a trigger.

[Pavulon]

67. SUV murders

GVRW over 2000 ban it. I mean if you are driving a yaris and I am all fucked up drunk and it you in a tahoe, that tahoe is the problem.

"suv kills du poster in sub compact"

I mean that vehicle just snuffed your life because my vehicle is much heavier than yours.

Bacon kills too. My cardiologist told me so . You guys are done find something useful to do with your time.

[Blandocyte]

73. Number of easily available guns needs to be reduced

Yes other things kill, but when it comes to efficient killing by user's intent, guns win. We must make them harder to get by letting fewer be available.

Next time a psycho takes people hostage, I hpe he's armed only with deadly bacon.

[truthisfreedom]

24. Murder/suicide... man and woman found

Responding officers set up a perimeter around the fine arts building and heard a gunshot as they entered.

Brighton says police discovered the bodies of a man and a woman in a room. He says he didn't think it was being used at the time.

The lockdown has been lifted.

Brighton says a shotgun was used in the killings.

[jody]

25. I hope those driven to mass murder & suicide don't discover IEDs. n/t

[fujiyama]

26. Scary

I took a semester or two of classes there a few years ago.

[WernhamHogg]

34. Scary indeed

I currently attend classes there although I had left for the day about an hour before the shooting occurred. Last semester I took a class in a room that is adjacent to the room this occurred in. Oddly enough, just a couple days ago I was sitting in class and had the passing thought that, with the rash of mass shootings, HFCC could be ripe for some unbalanced idiot to do some damage. I had to quickly put that thought out of my head so I could concentrate on the lecture.

[Blandocyte]

57. Jesus H!

We simply MUST make it harder to get guns in this country. No, it won't solve all the gun violence problems, but will solve some. And that's good enough!