Somali pirates vow revenge over comrades' killings

[depakid]

Source: Reuters

BOSASSO, Somalia, April 12 (Reuters) - Somali pirates threatened revenge on Sunday after two separate hostage-rescue raids by foreign forces killed at least five comrades, raising fears of future bloodshed on the high seas.

The latest raid by U.S. forces on Sunday that saved an American hostage and one by France last week have upped the stakes in shipping lanes off the anarchic Horn of Africa nation where buccaneers have defied foreign naval patrols. "The French and the Americans will regret starting this killing. We do not kill, but take only ransom. We shall do something to anyone we see as French or American from now," Hussein, a pirate, told Reuters by satellite phone.

"We cannot know how or whether our friends on the lifeboat died, but this will not stop us from hijacking," he said. Sea gangs generally treat their captives well, hoping to fetch top dollar in ransoms. The worst violence has been an occasional beating.

"We shall revenge," said another pirate, Aden, in Eyl village, a pirate lair on Somalia's eastern coast. Some fear the U.S. and French operations may make the modern-day pirates more like their more fearsome forbearers. "The pirates will know from now that anything can happen. The French are doing this, the Americans are doing it. Things will be more violent from now on," said Andrew Mwangura of the Kenya-based East African Seafarers Assistance Programme. "This is a big wake-up to the pirates. It raises the stakes."


Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/africaCrisis/idUSLC343356

---

OK....

[Milspec]

1. Not a good Idea

[one-eyed fat man]

66. Denham, Decatur, Nelson

those old sea captains knew the answer.

"Taking a wasps' nest... is more effective than catching the wasps one by one."

[RexDart]

71. I guess you have to remind them

every 200 years or so. If there is going to be a third Barbary War, I know where I'll place my money on the outcome.

[Madam Mossfern]

2. "We only take ransom"

OK, what if the ransom isn't paid?

[DURHAM D]

7. It is always paid - by the insurance provider.

This is a big change.

[24601]

65. And who really pays that?

Not the insurance companies. It's paid by all of us, in higher premiums, lower share prices, lower mutual fund returns and lower retirement fund values. Otherwise insruance companies lose money, stockholders sell, value continues to fall, workers lose jobs and companies go bankrupt, affecting banks that loaned them money. Sound familiar?

How is the pirate's statement different from declaring war on the US?

[Deja Q]

3. Oh please. The pirates would have had a tantum and claim more violence, either way.

Or convince me of otherwise, had they won their skirmish instead of losing it...

[saltpoint]

4. What a fearsome menace. What say let's all have a big sleepover until the

pirate threat is subdued.

We'll have plenty of group hugs and plenty of cookies.

[mbperrin]

5. "may make the modern-day pirates more like their fearsome forebearers"

Like what, extinct?

Gangbangers on the ocean, tough on the defenseless, braggarts unsurpassed, legends in their own minds.

Oh, well.

[Mike Daniels]

34. Most of their forebearers ended up dead through naval action or on the end of the rope

Tough talk from a bunch of people that preyed on the unarmed.

[Igel]

70. It took a war,

after the US had paid "tribute" for several years. In those years many hundreds of Americans were held hostage, and some never returned from captivity. It started as soon as the US was no longer covered by the tribute paid by the British, 1777 or so.

Of course, in the previous couple hundred years or so estimates are that a few hundred thousand to a few million mostly West Europeans were taken hostage--most made into slaves and eventually dead, not ransomed. Cervantes was one of them, of course, although when I learned that the teacher tried to make it clear that it was just an isolated incident by a rogue pirate acting on his own, even though it prompted no great notice at the time and he was held at the discretion of the sultan. For the most part, the European powers were simply afraid of them.

We're fond of citing the treaty that ended the first Barbary War, but not so fond of recalling the reason for the treaty or some of the treaty's language.

[inwiththenew]

6. It would be bad for business

To escalate hostilities. The whole reason for piracy is to get ransom/money. If they start killing people, they are not going to get the money and they are going to force the rest of the World's hand in dealing with the pirates.

[DURHAM D]

8. I think we just forced the pirates into a new position.

I don't feel good about this - but I hope to be wrong.

[Ian David]

10. If The Bush Administration had acted decisively earlier, the pirates wouldn't be so strong.

Instead of making us safer, we allowed the pirates to collect millions in ransoms.

[MadMaddie]

37. Agreed

[dipsydoodle]

58. Well in some respects they did

by helping fund the war lords to remove the Islamic militia. However - within limits the Council had the pirates under control. You can't have your cake............
http://www.redorbit.com/news/general/527884/experts_say_us_funding_somali_warlords/index.html

Its more commonly known as shooting yourself in the foot.

[olddad56]

67. Bush was a pirate

[toopers]

75. One thing to remember . . .

this was the first American flagged ship to be targeted. I am not sure that the US had jurisdiction until now. Certainly, the UN should have taken stronger steps months ago. I am sure that Bush would have relished the opportunity to nuke someone on his way out. I am just glad that we acted so decisively when we our ship was targeted.

[MUAD_DIB]

20. Horizontal?

[Mike Daniels]

59. Oh BS. The pirates recaptured the guy after he escaped and they beat him

They proved they were willing to escalate to violence before we took them out.

[Codeine]

85. The pirates forced themselves into this position.

Sometimes you have to cut your losses in that kind of business. When you get a tiger by the tail you don't squeeze, you let go and hope it doesn't kill you.

[Bicoastal]

11. But Jesus Christ, they had guns and they USED them...

...what did they expect would happen? We'd turn the other cheek? From the amount of time that passed, I'd say we gave them EVERY possibility to cooperate--and they chose to bluff us.

[christx30]

12. Maybe someone needs to start

lobbying for an international law that would allow ship crews to carry weapons to fend off pirate attacks. They attack from small boats. What could they do against rifle fire from an elevated position? Or if the ships were built to repulse attacks like that? Barbed wire could go a long way toward that.
Finding the base of operations for these guys would help a lot.

[hollowdweller]

39. A couple good bolt action scoped 30-06's would probably be all they'd need.

[imdjh]

52. IS there presently a law that says cargo ships can't be armed? nt

[christx30]

57. Most countries

that merchant ships dock at do not allow weapons at all. I heard about a guy that spent 6 months in jail when his ship docked at some backwater country. Customs inspector found the rifle and arrested the guy. He was lucky. Could have been there for 10 years

[Ian David]

9. Those two-year jail terms we offered them should seem like a better deal now. n/t

[Bette Noir]

13. I've ben wondering for a while why ships use that route with no arms or escort.

We'll just have to be more careful.

Piracy shouldn't be a risk-free route to getting rich.

[TorchTheWitch]

14. This was inevitable

The pirates were happy just collecting the ransoms. Now that there is resistence, they've upped the stakes. Passed time to start arming merchant ships. This would not have escalated to such a state if there was a more realistic approach from the international community to do something effective against the pirating. By just paying the ransoms the pirates inevitably got more greedy, more bold, more organized, more efficient, and worse, even more interested to protecting this very lucrative business they've engaged in.

[stray cat]

15. But aren't they all innocent people interested in saving the environment?

:sarcasm:

[aquart]

16. This just hastens the all-out assault that MUST come.

I think they're beginning to realize that there will be no good end.

[ohio2007]

17. Simply put, shipping companies have to ante up and arm the watch crew

It's gotta be cheaper then losing the ship and crew for months

[depakid]

27. Not sure that's wise on certain vessels...

Oil and LNG tankers, for example....

[ohio2007]

41. How about the ones that have been captured ?

Shipping companies know what they have to do.

[depakid]

45. Firearms and explosives around tankers are not good ideas, period

[imdjh]

54. Isn't every large vessel carrying a whole lot of diesel fuel?

As the oil platform manager pointed out to the Greenpeace ship, "What are you running that old heap on? Hemp?"

[ohio2007]

62. As you already know, those large tankers have rerouted away from those waters

by order of the king. The last time SA paid ransome to free a that big tanker,the pirates drown with the $. justice was served,all but @ $350k of the $3 mln was recovered.

[depakid]

87. You don't know what you're talking about

so you might want to give it a rest.

[one-eyed fat man]

86. How did the Navy

arm its fleet oilers (tankers to you) all during World War 2? Seems to me they even managed to haul around ships full of high octane aviation fuel, explosives and ammunition and arm them, still do.

[24601]

28. Arming Crews

Might help with the pirates.  On the other hand, even a
lightly armed ship/crew means they can't claim the right of
innocent passage and can be boarded/searched without cause at
every port of call. 

[cbayer]

31. You are right. That's the big drawback to traveling with weapons, even in private boats.

Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[ohio2007]

43. he is wrong. He wants the pirates to continue unabated and with confidence

knowing there is no risk when they climb aboard a vessel. Weapons are on board ships.

Time for a few months worth of policy 'change'.

I don't see the surge in piracy dipping if the same policies remain, in fact, we can expect an uptick in seizures now that the gloves are off.

Why do you feel piracy will decline due to this isolated incident ?

[cbayer]

46. That wasn't my point at all. The regulations concerning carrying weapons on board

a boat make it less likely that boats of all sizes will have weapons on board. Actually, I think that is a problem for all kinds of boats traveling in unfriendly waters, including those in small boats who go to certain parts of Mexico. I agree with you that easing these regulations would be a deterrent.

:hi:

[ohio2007]

82. The word will be going out that the captain 's weapons locker rules will be reviewed.

Just a hunch and a snipit of info heard on the radio this morning.
The merchant marines in a war zone rules can be applied to sea going gang banga's around the horn.

[ohio2007]

42. you missed the point. You can't pretend the pirates will stop raiding ships on the high seas

now that a few 'comrades' totally fucked up

[imdjh]

55. I don't see how that's an issue.

How many ports of call does a gigantic tanker make? For what it costs to pay ransom, they can arm the ship in Kuwait, and toss the arms overboard before getting to Weenieland or whatever country gets its panties in a knot over ships having protection.

[MUAD_DIB]

18. Easy. Locate Somali pirate mother ship(s). Destroy Somali pirate mother ship(s).

[Bicoastal]

19. Mea culpa.

:blush:

[MUAD_DIB]

21. As I understand it that is what they are calling them.

Like this...


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27766333/



Thanks.

[HooptieWagon]

23. Yes, mother ship.

The speedboats don't have anywhere near the fuel capacity to operate hundreds of miles from shore, nor do they have cabins/galleys to shelter and feed the crew. They are carried aboard coastal frieghters that mingle with the other shipping, and are launched when they spot a likely target. Sink the mother ships, and cut the money chain; and the pirates will only be able to operate within a few miles of shore - which is less profitable to them, and safer for merchant shipping.

[imdjh]

56. I could be wrong, but I think you might be

200 miles off shore is where this happened.

I don't know what kind of boats these pirates are using, but many fast boats have a range of over 600 miles.

[HooptieWagon]

76. It happened about 350 miles offshore

And the boat followed the freighter for a couple days before attacking. Assuming the freighter is capable of 12 knots, that is about 575 miles the boat followed the freighter, plus the 350 miles offshore and 350 back. That is well over 1200 miles.

The speedboats the pirates use are 24-30' open fishing skiffs of a type that are used all over the world. They are a planing hull, which means they skim on top of the water to achieve their speed. This requires reasonably light weight, a fair amount of power, and uses a LOT of fuel. There is no possible way these skiffs could carry enough fuel to operate for 1200 miles - it would require in the neighborhood of 5-600 gallons, which would weigh 3000-3600 lbs. Not only would the boats barely move with that much weight aboard, but they would have so little freeboard that they would swamp in the smallest waves. Further, as I noted in my above post, these are open boats, with no galley or cabin. The pirates would have no shelter from the elements, nor means to store or prepare food. A mother ship would be absolutely essential in support of these boats.

[imdjh]

77. You appear to be correct

I thought they had said this happened 200 miles off the coast (which is out of Somali waters , so much for the fishing argument others make) but I didn't know about the following.

Just an FYI, re the open boat thing, Florida commercial fishermen go out for days at a time in open boats of the skiff variety. I don't know how they do it, but they do.

[HooptieWagon]

78. No commercial fisherman I've ever seen operate offshore in open boats

in Florida. They are decked over and self bailing. Also, they are low-speed displacement hulls which are fuel efficient and seaworthy. Any open planing boats offshore are undoubtably recreational fisherman out for the day (occasionally overnight). Three recreational fisherman died of exposure last month when their 19' open boat swamped and overturned about 35 miles out. 1 guy managed to hang on to the overturned boat for several days, and survived.

[imdjh]

81. I was referring to those guys who go out in the trailerables

I don't know what they call those boats, some of them have an outboard mounted in a well, others on the stern. Sometimes two guys go out, sometimes more. They leave their trucks and trailers in the marina parking lot, so they are gone at least over night.

As for those three that died, I think something strange was going on there. Just a gut feeling.

[HooptieWagon]

84. Those are recreational fisherman, not commercial fisherman.

Yes, occasionally they will stay out all night. Not recommended, but you can get away with it in good weather. However, when the weather turns bad an open outboard-powered boat like those are not seaworthy at all far from land. The boats the pirates use are a little better. They are a bit larger, and have a high, flared bow that helps keep waves and spray from coming into the cockpit. They are used all over the Carribean, Mexico, and around the Indian Ocean for commercial fishing - but fairly close to shore, maybe within 20 or 30 miles, and seldom overnight.

Only strange thing about the three that died was they had no clue as to what they were doing. Even experienced boaters stayed in port or in protected waters that day, the oncoming cold front had been talked about for days. Those yahoos simply didn't pay attention to the weather; and their boat, equipment, and experience simply weren't up to dealing with the high winds and large waves that came when the front arrived. Also, supposedly their anchor stuck, and they tried to yank it up by gunning the motor. Unfortunately, their stupidity was fatal... Darwin's Law, I guess.

[Cousin It]

25. Erm, maybe you.....

.....haven't been paying close enough attention ? Mother ship is right.

[MUAD_DIB]

30. No problem. No offense. It's cool.

[ohio2007]

24. The mother ships are "pirated" from evil captialit shipping companies

originating from filthy rich western countries doing buisness with repressive regimes like China. It has been reported that a couple of captured German vessels already attempted a 'rescue mission' of the pirates but they couldn't distinguish the difference between a toxic waste dumping ship from a combat ship sitting idle in the water.....

Any small "fishing boat" must be searched and if it contains weapons that are not the usual standard poor man fishing gear....over the side it's tossed.


14 yr old with RPG's are not fishermen. They are well seasoned children soldiers
jmo

[MUAD_DIB]

26. That may be so, or not, but they still need to be eliminated as a threat.

[ohio2007]

44. That is so. Period. And yes, the threat must be eliminated contrary to what some people think about

the so called corrupt first world shipping companies.

Everybody's insurance rates climb through the cost effects of piracy

[slackmaster]

48. There is no honor among pirates

They are the scum of the Earth, not some kind of heroic champions of the oppressed.

[Mike Daniels]

61. Even the pirates of yore were all about their self interest.

Spreading the wealth was limited to basically supporting the taverns and "working" girls.

Too many people take their ideas of pirates and piracy from Hollywood.

[Akoto]

22. I hope they expect international law to change with their tactics.

The bloodier the pirates get, the likelier the world powers are to start allowing armed merchant ships.

[MichaelHarris]

29. Ya know

pissy pirates petrify me.

[nini]

32. Are they the Crips or Bloods?

Same fucking mentality.

[ShareTheWoods]

33. The worst violence has been an occasional beating????

Well allrighty then... mane every ship with snipers and take out each and every boat attempting to harass these merchant ships.
If that fails then drone their shoreline base camps until they get an honest job.

[gabby garcia]

35. well if they do not kill people

then I guess we could've just cruised right on over to that lifeboat and taken the captain back - no worries right, mate? I mean they wouldn't really kill him - those were just empty threats.
right?

gimme a break - I can guarantee that if things had taken a different turn and they had killed the captain, these people's logic would be to place ALL the blame of his death on those attempting to rescue him.

[trich]

36. What if they had real jobs,

maybe even a living wage? we shouldn't educate them though the might become wallsrteet bankers.

[awoke_in_2003]

40. "the might become wallsrteet bankers"

I don't care the pirates, but there is no use insulting them :) Welcome to DU

[Hulk]

38. ...and I'm sure they will get it.

....on some innocent aid workers or someone like that.

[tocqueville]

47. this will end up in a joint intervention

against their bases

If they kill a single hostage, they're done, because the outrage among western opinions would be such that they'll demand it

matter of time

[midnight armadillo]

49. Time to bring back the Q ships!

Er, but not to fight subs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

[Endangered Specie]

50. They can keep trying and likely continue getting shot...

as they should be.

[cboy4]

51. Time to start firing missiles at the mother ships and threaten

further military attacks.

This is the appropriate way to use our superpower might, to help the world.

They'll start thinking twice about heading to sea if they're worried a drone is tracking them with AGMs.

[BrightKnight]

53. An escorted convoy system should be setup in the region.

Just tell the shipping companies the their safety will not be assured if the do not participate. Navies from different countries can share the escort assignments. It will be cheaper an easier to prevent the situations.

[underpants]

60. Bad idea. They are pirates (theives) not warriors. Don't get in a different game

they have mostly been allowed to continue due to the difficulty of covering that much area AND because they haven't killed many people.

They should think twice about this. They are not going to win that game

[ohio2007]

63. marine choppers have already buzzed their "fishing villages" over the holiday weekend.

something is up in the way of a "show of force". Will they get the message?

nope, but it is time to hit them where they live so the media will have a field day with however they choose to spin it. Hopefully, the 'honeymoon' will continue.....
It's going to get dirty.
jmo

[underpants]

64. Not while there is so much money to be made

$1 to $2 Million per ship. 111 in 2008.

[ohio2007]

83. but they did buzz the fishing villages. There was a show of force if not seen by "the villagers"

they were heard.

[Tim01]

68. Not another half-assed war I hope. Do it, or don't do it.

Just enough support in order to say we are doing something is not really a solution.

How about arming and training the merchants?

[LeftHander]

69. Wow what gonads.

I guess it will soon be open season on unregistered vessels in the Gulf of Aden and the Straight of Hormuz

[kestrel91316]

72. I trust our Navy and Marines can make short work of just about any

pirate they can offer up.

Go ahead, guys.

Make. Our. Day.

[applegrove]

73. The pirates need less attention not more. I hope the pirates figure that out.

if this turns into a war the pirates don't stand a chance. What with satellites and destroyers...

[Odin2005]

74. BRING IT ON you thugs.

:grr:

[IrishBuckeye]

80. Uggg, that sounds Bush like. Unless you work on a merchant ship you should hold your mouth shut.

It's easy to ask for a fight that you don't fight in.

[JeanGrey]

79. Good candidates for the Darwin Award