18 kids, 1 grandkid: Duggars announce pregnancy: son follows parents footsteps

[superconnected]

Source: Yahoo News

SPRINGDALE, Ark. – Josh and Anna Duggar are following in the family tradition. Josh, the eldest of Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar's 18 kids, announced Monday that he and new bride Anna were about to start their own brood. The couple, who's been married since September, said Anna Duggar is due Oct. 18.

"I am three months right now and feeling great. Morning sickness is pretty much all gone, and so we're looking forward to the birth of our baby," Anna Duggar told NBC's "Today" show Monday.

The Duggars live in northwest Arkansas and are featured on the cable TV show, "18 Kids and Counting." Michelle Duggar most recently gave birth in December, to Jordyn-Grace. Along with Josh and Jordyn, Michelle and Jim Bob are parents to: Jana, 19; John-David, 19; Jill, 17; Jessa, 16; Jinger, 15; Joseph, 14; Josiah, 12; Joy-Anna, 11; Jeremiah, 10; Jedidiah, 10; Jason, 8; James, 7; Justin, 6; Jackson, 4; Johannah, 3; and Jennifer, 2.

Josh Duggar said he and his wife haven't yet picked out a name, but are leaning toward establishing a theme with the future children's

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/duggars_grandchild

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

1. It'll only get worse until they happen upon some Klingon-poisoned food.

[TwilightZone]

3. Nice picture.

Hadn't seen that one. Rather amusing. :)

[hlthe2b]

You gotta admit, they all look rather attractive & healthy...

(in a "literal" fundy sort of way)....

Has there been any community or other public backlash against them for this incredible excess?

[JeanGrey]

68. I've studied this picture and for the life of me I can't figure

out what makes them look "fundy"?

[imdjh]

72. When they first did a special on them, they looked the part big time

Back then, Mom was bragging that they sewed their own clothes, and the girls certainly had the Amish credentials to prove it. That's not fair, Amish clothes are traditional and well made, these kids were just frumpy.

But in the special you just couldn't miss the eyes- fundy eyes.

[JeanGrey]

86. Because they make their own clothes? I'm sorry but that

simply is silly. My mom made most of mine. And I've never seen a picture of these kids that they looked in the least "frumpy".

What is "fundy" eyes? I think you're digging a hole here!

[Bill McBlueState]

96. "My mom made most of mine."

Maybe you're a "fundy" too. :shrug:

[JeanGrey]

154. Your bias is astounding! Let me let you in a secret.

Lots of people make clothes. Lots of people own sewing machines. I actually had to make a garment to graduate from high school as home ec was a required course.

I also went to a Catholic school for two years even though I'm not Catholic - it was a fantastic school and I got free tuition for 7th and 8th grade.

There is NOTHING wrong with those kids clothes.

[imdjh]

97. Because they made frumpy clothes

Your mom made most of your clothes, she didn't make you make them did she? And she probably tried to make you something attractive to wear. The Duggars made their kids sew their own clothes and stated outright that the "simplicity" of the dress was to keep them mindful of their religion. Not surprisingly, this only seems to apply to the females in the household unless the boys are a lot better seamstresses than the girls.

[Duke Newcombe]

135. Do your observations pertain to other cultures and peoples...

who value simplicity and modesty of attire, or just these folks?

[imdjh]

143. It all depends

It depends on whether there is a practical aspect to it, if the design is good, and my mood of course.

I happen to like the Mennonite women's attire, though I wouldn't want to have to wear it. The men's outfit is as ridiculous as the modern male business uniform with I loathe.

I don't care for the design or ideology of the head to floor veils with the eyeholes but I do like some of the traditional Arabic attire for men.

I like the "pajama" type outfits worn in North Africa, and the caftans that go with them. They aren't particularly good for working in the yard, but as knock around wear and beachwear they're tops.

I really like the prairie dresses that the Mormon wives from the recent news event were wearing. They have a certain Barbara Stanwyck quality, appear to be sturdy, very well made, and almost poweful. Honestly, I think that they inspired Norma Kamali.



If the Trapp family wears their mountaineer outfits at their hotel then I would appreciate it as a gimmick, but otherwise it's rather silly looking.

Any other bases you want me to cover?

[Duke Newcombe]

148. No, that'll do.

Thanks for answering my query.

[JeanGrey]

155. There is nothing wrong with the clothes those kids are

wearing. They look wonderful and the boys especially look fantastic.

And (gasp) I also sewed as a teen!

What bothers you most? I guess you'd like it better if the girls were in low rider jeans with thongs showing? ROTFLMAO

[imdjh]

98. fundy eyes

Him more than her. I don't find that surprising, while women tend to be more religious than men, men tend to be the ones who go over the edge. There are also some women who from a young age have wanted nothing more than to be a mommy, over and over, and who will put up with almost anything to get the security a sensible person with that calling would require in the pursuit of it. I would imagine that finding a guy who wants to go along with that would almost by definition bring you together with a Biblical re-enactor.

[Gemini Cat]

103. Women more religious than men

I've noticed that myself. Why is that? Women seem to get screwed over more with a lot of religions, I don't understand why they seem to embrace it more than men.

[imdjh]

144. Just a theory or two.

Did you ever see A Man Called Horse? Charleton Heston was lifted off the ground and swung around by ropes attached to spikes through his breasts. When he was in unbearable pain he had his spiritual experience. Maybe that's as close as men get to child birth.

[JeanGrey]

157. It was Richard Harris not Heston.

:-)

[Gemini Cat]

169. Never saw the film, but it sounds painful. nt

[JeanGrey]

156. There is nothing wrong with their eyes.

Come on people, can you guys get any pettier?

[and-justice-for-all]

175. They do not make their own clothes...

they shop at second hand stores.

[JeanGrey]

176. Even better. Recycling at it's best. But that picture looks like

all the girl's dresses are the same pattern so I'm pretty sure there is some dress making going on.

The boys are particularly spiffy. I used to love to dress my boys in suits.

[and-justice-for-all]

181. I heard the mom talking about their spending

and how the save money, I have not heard her mention the dress making thing. But, perhaps your right..nt

[JeanGrey]

194. If they weren't all the same pattern and the same cloth

I wouldn't suspect it, but they were probably made. They all look fine. :-)

My son could learn something from them. He keeps going to job interviews in long, unkept hair, a tee shirt three sizes too big and saggy jeans and then wonders why no one will hire him. And he's 27.

[hlthe2b]

90. THe boys all look identical, as do the girls.

Obviously, they would have that tendency--given they are siblings, but there is barely a trace of difference in hair style or cut and clothing choices. Most families allow some individuality by the time kids enter adolescence. Fundy families do not. They do appear to be trying not to look as they did a few years ago (with the girls wearing dresses not unlike the mormons from that polygamous clan or even tradiitonal Amish).

I think they are an attractive family. My biases aside, I hope all the kids develop into their full potential (and have normal sized families).

[JeanGrey]

158. I had two boys ten months apart and I often dressed them

just alike.

I know many religious families, probably that you would call "fundie" and none of their kids look weird.

This thread is blowing my mind...............

[wickerwoman]

184. How old are they

and how would you respond if one of them said they wanted a different haircut/clothing style?

Now do the math on 18 kids. Seriously, not one of them has ever expressed a desire to stand out from the crowd? And if/when they did what was their parents' response?

[JeanGrey]

195. Well of course by the time they were much older they

chose their own clothes; and I'm sorry to say the youngest one hasn't been that great about it.

He can't get hired most of the time because he goes to job interviews looking terrible.

He is finally beginning to see the light however. It just takes some kids longer to realize that doing your own thing is fine, but employers might not be thrilled! LOL

[dflprincess]

168. I think it's pretty clear that the girls will not be allowed to develop their full potential

unless they run away.

[JeanGrey]

177. Why on earth do you think that?

[dflprincess]

180. Because when I have watched the show I have never seen

any of those children encouraged to think for themselves. You can't reach your full potential if you're not allowed to form your own thoughts.

[JeanGrey]

193. I think you are assuming something you know nothing

about.

[snooper2]

99. You've been in Georgia too long

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[JeanGrey]

159. No your bias is showing. I grew up in the North.

As I just said above, the amount of made up pettiness on this thread is unreal.

[marshall]

105. No piercings, tattoos, weird clothing, or sullen looks

And no glazed over eyes from the partying the night before.

[JeanGrey]

160. Isn't that simply awful?

:crazy:

[marshall]

164. An opinion drawn from my years of teacihng high school

I wouldn't want to confront religious sanctions on what I might want to teach (within the commonly accepted boundaries of public schools), but other than that these would probably be pleasant kids to have in a class.

[dflprincess]

165. Unless you brought up that Darwin blasphemer

(:sarcasm:)

Did you catch the episode when the family went to the Creation Museum :scared:

[JeanGrey]

170. My teacher friend said the same thing!

(But that was after one of her students threw her against a bank of lockers last year)

[DoctorMyEyes]

198. The hair

All the girls have the same hairstyle. Long, but pulled back from the face. All the boys have the same hairstyle - and collared polo shirts. See, they're casual but neat.

My Costco had some kind of brief Mormon "invasion" last week and they looked just like this. They might as well have been wearing uniforms.

[woodsprite]

41. Quadrotriticaline probably comes from China and contains melamine. n/t

[neverforget]

71. OMG that picture is hilarious!

:rofl:

Laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes......

[Raven]

2. Does this kid have a job? What does his father do to support his crowd?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. the article states that he and his wife run a car dealership

I would say this means a used car lot rather than a regular dealership, though. I'm wondering, with the economy like it is, how he is able to support himself and his wife with this.

[SKKY]

58. On a recent show (I think it was Date Line), they said that they...

...live on the rental income from a few "commercial properties" that they own.

[imdjh]

73. He was a politician

And they claimed to have had other businesses. I think he said that they started out with a consignment car lot. Since I have never known one of them to succeed, I'll assume that he found another source of income, plus the public trough of course.

[tammywammy]

134. I don't think they get any governmental assistance

Like welfare, food stamps or WIC. They own commercial property and have made money off that.

[imdjh]

142. BY public trough, I meant politician salary nt

[Duke Newcombe]

147. I don't know ANY politician who would work for free...

(let alone "work"), so I don't know how fair the "public trough" thing would be in this situation.

[hlthe2b]

4. Names starting with "Z"

re: "Josh Duggar said he and his wife haven't yet picked out a name, but are leaning toward establishing a theme with the future children's names."

Maybe if they were required to pick the letter Z or X, we could find a way to limit their reproduction.... :eyes:

[Dappleganger]

5. I guess they have an entire fleet of clown cars in the making. nt

nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

11. You know what would be funny?

If they had 2 kids and then stopped. That'd boost my faith in humanity. And make their lunatic parents look like the fools they are.

[hlthe2b]

45. And all the daughters decided to forego Motherhood...

Of course they've fulfilled their family quota enough to skip a few generations....

[cali]

16. zena, zora, zabrina, zafinah, zahara, zaida, zali, zazam zelda

zilah, zander, zachariah, zane, zbigniew, zev, zeus, ziggy, zion. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[hlthe2b]

46. Yes... and when they run out, of Z names, there's always integers....

:eyes:

[shanti]

112. eh

i think he was going with "m" as the letter. at least that's what he said on larry king last nite.

[kentauros]

100. Here are the Z's of Persian girls' names with meanings:

Zahra____________White, bright, clear, serene; also name of Mohammad's daughter
Zainab/Zaynab_____Ali's daughter
Zarafshan_________Sprinkling gold
Zarasa___________Like gold
Zarbanu__________Golden woman, wealthy woman
Zari______________Brocaded Silk
Zarif______________Delicate
Zarifeh____________Delicate
Zarileh____________Name of a bird
Zarsa_____________Like Gold
Zanbagh__________A flower (Iris, Fleur-de-lis)
Zarrin_____________Golden
Zarrin-dokht_______Golden girl
Zarrineh___________Golden
Zarrin-taj_________Golden crown
Zeka/Zika_________Wind (in Zand)
Zhaleh/Jaleh_______Dew
Zhamak___________Small poem
Zhaveh___________Name of plant
Zhila/Jila__________Name of a river
Zhileh_____________Dew
Zhina
Ziba_______________Beautiful
Zibachehr__________Beautiful face
Ziba-dokht_________Beautiful girl
Zina
Zinat______________Ornament, decoration
Zivar______________An ornament of gems, gold, or silver
Zoha______________Forenoon
Zohreh____________The planet Venus
Zoya______________Freedom, liberty
Zozan_____________Mountain pasture, high plateau

http://cleo.lcs.psu.edu/girl_names.html">Iranian Girl Names
Iranian Boy Names

Think they'd take Persian names? They are likely more ancient than the Hebrew ones they will no doubt be picking...

[bluestateguy]

6. I respect their choice to have unlimited numbers of children.

All I ask is that they also respect the choice a gay couple would like to make to be able to get legally married

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

7. Fat chance -nt

[kestrel91316]

18. Yeah. I'd lay serious odds these folks are of the "Stone Teh Gays To Death"

persuasion.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. These types not only would forbid gays to marry, they voted

to prevent gays to adopt kids or even be foster parents. This idiotic amendment also prevents any unmarried couple living in the same house to adopt or foster. The amendment was opposed by DHS, family court judges, and anyone with sense, but the fundies came out in droves and voted for it and for McCain. A little granny lady who lives with her grandson cried when she found out she wouldn't be able to take care of her grandchildren who were orphaned because of a car wreck. This is the sort of idiocy that these people LOVE.

[get the red out]

17. Exactly!

This bunch of conn people would deny anyone but them rights. Their intolerance should not be tolerated by donating to their sicking lifestyle by watching their show. People need to wake up, these are takers not givers, and they want no only to be given a free living, but they want to deny others dignity in life. This is the face of misogyny, hate, and intolerance. They should be reviled at every opportunity. I wish social services would rescue their offspring.

[Betty]

80. given the # of kids they've had, odds are that at least one is gay.

not that the kid would ever come out of the closet... but just sayin'.

[IrishBuckeye]

70. Why do you respect their choice?

If everyone had that many kids we would be fked. We don't have unlimited resources.

[lumpy]

129. Large families just ain't happening in the US. Why?

It takes a lot of dedication and hard work to care for a large family. How many US citizens would be willing to do that? Too many are overwhelmed just taking care of a couple kids between trying to keep their love lives perky, keeping up with the Joneses and multiple divorces.
I may not agree that it's great to have a batch of kids, but I don't disparage the right to do that.

[Matariki]

116. I don't. It's incredibly selfish and oblivious to the impact on the environment

On the other hand, I support YOUR right to marry and adopt children whole-heartedly.

[Drunken Irishman]

119. You've got to think the odds are good one or more of their kids turns out gay.

What happens when they come out of the closet?

[cosmicone]

8. Maybe they could adopt Nadya Suleman the octopussy

and double the size of the brood instantly!

[maxsolomon]

9. congratulations to the young couple

the world (and arkansas) just can't have enough fundamentalist monotheists!

:sarcasm:

[theoldman]

12. These guys are pikers.

The record number of children born to a woman is about 69.

[Maine-ah]

38. The world record

The world record for having the most number of children officially recorded is 69 by the first of two wives of Feodor Vassilyev (1707-1782), a peasant from Shuya, 150 miles east of Moscow. In 27 confinements, she gave birth to 16 pairs of twins, seven sets of triplets and four sets of quadruplets. The children were born between 1725-1765


:wow:

[SammyWinstonJack]

66. Holy crap!

:wow:

[Politicub]

14. Ugh - those people just aren't right

"Josh Duggar said he and his wife haven't yet picked out a name, but are leaning toward establishing a theme with the future children's..."

Yes, what a reason to have children - to establish a theme.

I would suggest they get an aquarium so they can scratch the "theme name" itch with a school of fish instead of human beings.

[get the red out]

15. Sickening Quiverfull pieces of dog shit!

If ever there was a group of creatures that didn't need any more media exposure it would be this bunch of grifters. Bunch of fucking dog shit, the whole lot of them. Ignorant, lazy, conning bunch of sickening repitle looser. Living off the ignorance of others who watch their show and coo and ahhh at their family "values" of child labor and child neglect; and reproducing their little gypsies as fast as their monster GAWD they want to punish us all with will allow.

Monsters.

[ShortnFiery]

19. Hey, stop dis'ing the Bush and Cheney families.

After all, "Ma Barker" (Barbara Bush, Sr.) is just weeks out of the hospital.

TWEEK! :evilgrin:

[get the red out]

20. If the white trash fits.........

[ShortnFiery]

21. It fits & spans across all socio-economic groups.

:thumbsup:

[get the red out]

24. White trash is an attitude

not a bank account.

[shanti]

113. and the thing is....

anna's family is a quiverfull family too~! :(

[Tangerine LaBamba]

22. Three months?

And she's already in maternity clothes?

Oh, that's frightening. The whole thing is frightening............................

[pattmarty]

23. It's great they can do this and support all those kids.....................

............Me, I grew up in the 60's and 70's and had 5 kids by the time I was 21 (and no college or trade school training) and it was a motherfucker BACK then. So one really big thing here especially when the economy is in the shitter, is this guy must have a real good income even for
Arkansas, believe me, I LIVE in Ar.

[get the red out]

25. They are grifter slime balls

they live of what they can scam out of people with their little act and put the newest baby off on the other children to raise like it didn't even have parents. They are nothing but scum of the lowest possible order. They are breeding like this to try to make sure Fundies outnumber normal people and can take over the country and force us all to live like this, but they will take what they can conn in the meantime. Sick bunch of fucks.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JenniferJuniper]

37. It's called the "QuiverFull" movement and

you can find lots of info about them on the Internets. The general idea seems to be to breed as many babies as possible to create a future Army for Christ. (a white fundie army, of course)

And personally, I think any parents that make a living by forcing their minor children to be on a reality show are by definition grifter slime balls.

[slay]

187. Exactly!

These "quiverfull" wackos are a scary bunch. They want to "outbreed" liberals and intellectuals, knowing that most liberals have relativly few children because liberals believe in actually giving attention to their kids and know attention gets spread thinner the more kids you have. I've watched the Duggers horrible reality show before and I really feel bad for the older kids, who do nothing but take care of the younger ones. These people are seriously warped in the head. Can you imagine what would happen to the planet if every couple had 18 kids? Yikes! :scared:

[lumpy]

122. It is disgusting to make disparaging and filthy remarks about

people who are doing what they have the right to do. To assume that their agenda is to take over the country is ridiculous and 'sick'.

[JeanGrey]

162. This is the third time I've said it:

This thread kinda floors me................

[eridani]

185. What's going on here is a not entirely rational revulsion against tradtional values

We all know that our collective production and reproduction habits mean that we are killing off our planet and our children or grandchildren. People get upset at that and lash out, even though kids in big families are innocent bystanders to the decisions of others.

The root is widespread modern revulsion against traditional values, which in the reproductive realm means being a willful cheerleader for and proponent of mass murder and genocide. (I mean tradition as in the last 5000 years, not the hunting/gathering era before that.) The Old Testament spells it out plainly.

Genesis 22:17

I will indeed bless you, and I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they will be as countless as the stars in the sky or the grains of sand on the seashore.

Immediately the question arises as to where all those little grains of sand are supposed to live. Hey--no problem! Genocide, pillage and rape to the rescue!

Deuteronomy 7:1-2:

"... the seven nations greater and mightier than thou; And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them."

Deuteronomy 2:26-35 "...we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain."

Numbers 31:16-18:

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the female children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

And what are big famlies for? Women have the job of breeding enough mass murderers to do the job of genocide.

Psalm 127:3-4

Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord:
and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man;
so are children of the youth.
Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them.

Traditional values are why we invaded Iraq and have 700+ military bases around the world.

It's why the people of Rwanda slaughtered each other. That's what happens when women start their reproductive careers at 15 and average 8.5 kids in 1983 and still 6.2 in 1992. Well, that and not having a powerful enough imperial army to impose genocide on foreigners and take the food and water they'd need from someone else.

Israel has rained destruction on Lebanon and Palestine mainly for the purpose of water theft in a very dry part of the world.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2249599.stm

And that's why so many people have an irrational hatred for people like the Duggars. For most our our existence (before the era of writen history) we have had relatively slow population growth. Isn't it about time that we break the habit of over-reproduction followed inevitably by mass murder? It's only 5,000 years old. It woudl be nice if the older old-fashioned values made a comeback.

[Arugula Latte]

26. No, it's not great.

These people are littering the Earth with their offspring. Their offspring are now breeding. Think of all the resources that will be squandered, all because they wouldn't stop after a couple of kids. Dozens and dozens and dozens of humans will be added to the planet, all because of two people.

The Earth weeps.

[pattmarty]

29. See reply to last nutcase. Let me put a question to you:::::::::

What would you say if it was a "hippie" living out in oh let's say Oregon having 15 kids????? C'mon, get fucking real, If the guy is a fundie crazy motherfucker, ok, crucify the guy. But I did not see anything in the post about the guy being some kind of crazy. If that's the case, then ok, I'll jump on the bandwagon. Some of "you people" are starting to sound like the right wing crazies.

[Arugula Latte]

31. Anyone who chooses to have 15 or 20 kids deserves scorn, IMO.

I don't care if they're hippies or fundies. Fuck that -- how selfish can you be? We're not living in the 12th century, when most of your kids could reasonably be expected to die in childhood. There's no need to keep knocking up that woman -- our planet can't take this type of human breeding.

Also, Jim Bob Duggar is a well-known rightwing Republican douchebag.

[get the red out]

33. Amen

[pattmarty]

39. A fucking men?????? I rest my case.

[Drunken Irishman]

120. What is not an obscene number to you?

Two and then end it?

Do you have this much scorn toward Ethel Kennedy, who bore ten children?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_B8vjRwFOoNU/RktXKPl83yI/AAAAAAAAAO8/WBOC76zdKdI/s400/Picture+6.png

[lumpy]

123. Some of the disgusting comments on this subject just show a

lot of hatred toward other people who have different ideas on what a family can consist of. I don't see them making filthy remarks about other cultures who cherish large families.

[pattmarty]

128. This just proves the "left" has their very own "crazies" too.

[Duke Newcombe]

132. Bingo. Situational scorn in full effect on DU.

Of course they respect reproductive choice, and diversity. Can't you see? :sarcasm:

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pattmarty]

40. Well, let's see, I may, just may if I were a homosexual..............

.........Are you against gays too? I'll tell ya what, you are one crazy assed motherfucker. You might want to think about attending one of the "teabag" parties this week.

[Reterr]

60. No most of us probably wouldn't say that for a "hippie" breeding out of control like this either

The earth is facing a real problem due to asymptotic population growth and it is a worse problem in a first world country where our consumption rates are so much higher.

I would give a thumbsdown to anyone doing this sort of thing. Sure it is their choice, but people are free to criticize what they see as really shitty choices and I personally view this as one of those choices. It is socially and environmentally irresponsible in my opinion and the fundie aspect of it only makes it a little bit worse imo.

[pattmarty]

95. "breeding out of control" sounds a little WWII-ish, doesn't it???

I don't agree with it either, but some responses here are kinda scary. A couple sound like Worldnut daily infiltrators, actually.

[lumpy]

125. I believe it is insanely sick to disparage others who hold different

beliefs. This sort of hatred is the sort of thing that leads people to act out violently to satisfy their intolerence.

[get the red out]

30. You are right

these Duggar creatures are human waste products. And they breed in order to take other's rights away. These people are sickening. Waste products, they should be despised. I get so angry at people who admire them. If they got what they deserved they would be hiding from the disgusted faces of real people.

[lumpy]

126. Another human waste product is blantant hatred against innocent

people. "Take other's rights away" = nonsense. To become sickened by some other people's idea of family shows the inability to control one's temperment and scewed thinking.

[Igel]

77. It averages out.

It's not the statistical outliers that are the problem, it's when the average fertility is 5 or 8 kids per woman. Then you get huge population growth.

The US has fertility at just about replacement levels--and that includes people like the Duggars, as well as people like my brothers in law (neither of whom have kids). US population growth is from immigration, taking other countries' "excess" population. Actually, non-white minority groups--whether black or Latino--or first-gen immigrants as a whole put the US at replacement level. Otherwise we'd probably be at below replacement.

Conservatives or the religious also account for a somewhat disproportionate share of births.

[pattmarty]

79. Thank you, finally what we need are some hard facts.

[lumpy]

127. Thank you, nice to see level-headed thinking.

v

[acmavm]

28. Jinger??

Rhymes with winger.

[JenniferJuniper]

34. It's actually pronounced like the porn star version of Ginger...

My 14 year old tells me there is actually a "Free Jinger Duggar" movement on the internet. She's the girl who does all the laundry for household and seems the most likely to run away from her crazy family and join a more normal circus.

[acmavm]

75. Thank you. Poor child. Hell, poor children. This is such a bunch. And rather

shameless to cash in on their (the parents) ability to breed like they do. At least, I think so.

[treestar]

35. Now that they will be grandparents

Maybe it is time for them to stop themselves?

Or will their grandchildren wind up with uncles younger than they are?

[demoborn47]

36. They are about as far right as you can get...

Besides only having sex for procreation, they've met with Krazy Kirk Cameron and go around to different Congregations speaking on the "horrible decision" to have an abortion when they were too young. I guess after that point, they just decided to pop them out like pez. I believe he owns a lot fo land and rental space AND having their ridiculous TV show helps with the bills. Americans can't seem to get enough of those Crazy Christians. Leave the poor woman alone Jim-Bob, no one can sufficiently care for that many children.

[Raine]

47. Actually she didn't have an abortion

she used birth control pills and believes they brought on a miscarriage.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

53. *HEAD EXPLODES FROM EXCESS STUPIDITY*

:argh:

[defendandprotect]

83. These people look young enough yet to make it to 25 kids . .. ????

The meaning of life is procreating?

What are these people thinking ---

Forget it -- I don't want to know!

[damntexdem]

42. If a couple in the backwoods of Arkansas get divorced, ...

are they still cousins?

[Ian David]

43. It's as if they think everyone is dead and they have to re-populate the Earth. n/t

[No Longer Quivering]

44. From a former QUIVERFULL mother of 7 ~ this lifestyle is really a living nightmare of bondage & fear

Oh how I used to admire and practically worship Michelle Duggar ~ she was my role model ~ my inspiration.

Our family shared a lot of the same beliefs ~ we were committed to letting the Lord "plan our family" ~ and even though I had c-section deliveries and complications which nearly killed me ~ I would have continued to live and espouse the lifestyle ~ that is, until the pressure of being perfect drove my oldest daughter to despair. When she ended up in the psych ward after attempting to kill herself ~ I finally woke up to what a warped and twisted belief system and lifestyle we were following.

I am no longer having all the babies which "the Lord chooses to bless me with" ~ I am no longer striving to be the perfect godly wife and mother ~ I am no longer homeschooling (brainwashing) my kids ~ and I am NO LONGER QUIVERING: http://2spb.blogspot.com/

[Lars39]

49. Welcome to DU, No Longer Quivering.

Your story is important for people to hear. Fundamentalism is so damaging to people.

[tanyev]

50. Welcome to DU.

Sorry you've had such a rough journey. :hug:

[Raine]

51. Welcome

I looked at your blog, very interesting ... THANKS for the link. :hi:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

52. Reading through your blog now.

Welcome to DU, Vickie -- or is that Laura? :hi:

[Reterr]

61. Welcome to DU and thanks for sharing your story

:hi:

[and-justice-for-all]

62. Good for you!!

:toast:

[MadMaddie]

65. Thank you for sharing your story with us.

Welcome to DU!

[Odin2005]

78. Welcome do DU!!!

Sorry you and your daughter had to go through that shit. :cry:

[XemaSab]

87. Welcome to DU!

Thanks for sharing part of your story.

(PS Ignore some of the hate upthread. :eyes:)

[laundry_queen]

106. Welcome to DU

I read your blog and I do believe I recognize you from other places online (ican or hbac). :) I'm glad you are happier and no longer in that 'movement'.

[Matariki]

117. Oh please tell me you're my 'long lost' step sister...

No wait, I think last I heard she had 8 or 9 children. But her story is the same as yours - sexist, fundie husband, the belief the family planning is 'in god's hands', home-schooling, very depressed looking daughters. Bread sandwiches for lunch.

edited to add - I mean, I really hope she has come to her senses like you obviously have.

I don't understand that attitude of 'family planning', as if god couldn't give religious people a brain to make their own decisions with.

[kestrel91316]

121. Thank you for having the courage to speak out against what is, IMHO,

brainwashing and reproductive slavery.

[Raine]

48. Congrats

NOT ... this saddens me. :-( I was in hopes that maybe they had at least a little more sense than the parents. :argh:

[superconnected]

54. Home School. The first choice of religious cults everywhere.

[Duke Newcombe]

136. Why do you think that is? n/t

[friedgreentomatoes]

55. Will their daughters ever find a match?

I mean, what guy would want to marry one of these girls knowing they as a family might be expected to follow in the footprints of the in-laws? :shrug:

[JenniferJuniper]

57. They probably will

The children don't hang out with any kids that aren't from similar families. They travel to "home school conferences" where they meet up with other like-minded Quiver Full fundies. I would imagine much match making is done there.

I just hope if the reality show does anything, it somehow helps expose the kids more to the outside world and increases the chances that at least some of the kids - especially the girls - get out of that world.

[friedgreentomatoes]

74. The flip side may be

these older girls are being made to take care of the younger ones, so, they might not want to put their older through this.
We can only hope!

[dflprincess]

166. But dating is to be discouraged

the parents believe that God will just send them the right spouse.

I saw an episode where Jim Bob (daddy) said that Michelle had dated other men before they met and it left her with "issues". I figure the only issue she may have with it is that Jim Bob has probably tormented her ever day of their marriage demanding the details of what she did with those guys she dated.

[JenniferJuniper]

183. Dating is forbidden.

Only "courtship" is allowed and the courtship starts after "God" (or more likely God's stand-in, the girl's daddy) okays it. I have no idea what happens if a courtship fails and does not lead to marriage. But they aren't allowed to kiss or hug or be alone with the one they are courting and it sounds like its simply a step to marriage. So kids are encouraged to marry at a very young age to someone they barely know and then start making babies right away. And the woman is supposed to be completely under the authority of her husband.

Sounds like a recipe for one hell of a life.

[carlyhippy]

56. hopefully they will only have a few kids, not 18

if all their kids had 18 kids, that would be 18 squared, OMG that would be one heck of a family reunion........

[Duke Newcombe]

59. Wow. Disrespecting someone's reproductive choices isn't ringing quite progressive.

No matter what you feel about them personally.

[and-justice-for-all]

64. When your in the public eye, you open yourself up to criticism..nt

[JenniferJuniper]

69. It's more complicated than that.

Have you seen the show? The teenaged girls are essentially house slaves who do all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, and child-minding. Endless babysitting. Each older girl is assigned at least two children who they are fully responsible for throughout the day.

It's one thing if you can afford to feed and clothe and then also hire nannies to assist you, but it's quite another to have so many babies that you have to pass them off to 13, 14, and 15 year old girls to care for. Girls who have no say in the matter whatsoever, even if they do smile nicely for the camera and say they love the work.

[NashVegas]

107. And the Younger Children Get Reared By Other Children

Which, itself, leads to profound emotional immaturity.

[blonndee]

82. Hey, they chose to open themselves up to public approval or criticism.

Yes, I "disrespect" their choices. I think their choices are not progressive ecologically or morally (based on what I've seen), and I think they are freaks. That is my opinion. How is that not progressive? Your post doesn't make any sense.

[JI7]

88. we aren't trying to legislate what they do as they wish to do for others

[Raine]

89. We're entitled to an opinion

especially when they have put themselves out there. I doubt that they have respect for those who choose to terminate a pregnancy.

[hlthe2b]

91. They pay no taxes... We are supporting them....

as they profit off of each little new mouth. That isn't a reproductive "choice"... It is reproductive gluttony--at our expense.

[and-justice-for-all]

92. Really? Do tell....nt

[hlthe2b]

94. I have to go to work. With your star you can search the DU archives

of DU for the previous threads on the DUggans where a great deal of detail on their finances and fortune was documented.

[JenniferJuniper]

111. As I understand it, they pay no property taxes

because they had that huge house of their's declared a church.

And I also find it hard to believe they built that house on their own using only child labor. Doesn't seem possible. Before the Discovery Channel got involved in their lives, they were living in a small three bedroom rancher.

I suspect the TV folks subsidized the house (church?) building to make the show more interesting (and maybe because they couldn't fit camera crews in the old house.)

[Duke Newcombe]

131. The Husband owns many rental properties. That's how they get their $$$

And I know three non "fundy" families who built their own houses, with help from their minor children. It doesn't take much training to swing a hammer on a nail.

I think DU folks passionately hate these folks and what they stand for to the degree that if the Duggars believed "the sky is blue", some DUers would call them liars.

Folks here wasting so much bandwidth dissecting the lives of and hating people they don't even know confuses the hell out of me.

[JenniferJuniper]

149. And you are posting on this tread

because....? It's people like you who confuse the hell out of me.

The house is over 7,000 square feet and he pays no property taxes on it. He says it's a church. I've never seen a church with a pool table in it, have you?

And he doesn't own "many rental properties". Most of his own income comes from some land that a cell tower is on. Surely, the Discovery Channel is also helping finance the family trips all over the country, just like they are paying for those Little People to go on trips and expand their house endlessly.

Some might say, hey, that's great for them. Others may say they are pimping out their existing children to pay for their endless breeding addiction. The kids, after all, have no more say in whether they want to be on reality show than they have any say as to whether they want to do all of the cooking and cleaning for the family.

Either way, they are on my TV because my teenagers are fascinated by them. And if they are on my TV, I, along with everyone else out here, have the right to comment on what I see.

[Duke Newcombe]

150. Glad to return the favor.

I watch the show, too. You are only partially correct: he does have land upon which a cell tower sits, but also owns retail and rental property. See season one of the show.

He, and about 4 other couples with large families have established a church on their property. Just like our tax code allows me to write off a percentage of my property taxes on any part of my home that is used for my business, they're doing the same. You may not like that, but that's a tax code issue, not a "Duggar" issue.

The Discovery Channel, as you've correctly guessed, funds these trips. It would be a pretty boring and short series to look at them being at home every episode, so in order to facilitate "action", they put them in different environments. Like every other "reality show" does.

You know, if you think it's silly, or confusing or whatever, good for you. I'm mainly directing the bewilderment at the "Two Minutes Hate" crowd--if the shoe doesn't fit, don't worry about wearing it.

[and-justice-for-all]

173. I agree Jennifer...nt

[and-justice-for-all]

171. I do not sense any hate going on...

but as I said before, when your in the public eye, you open yourself up to criticism. So what do you have to say about those who criticize Oprah, Dr. Phil or any other Television show?

Your confusing their criticisms for hatred and that simple is not so. I do not hate them, but I find that having 19 kids is excessive and since they have had their house declared a Church in order to get tax breaks, when in fact it is not a church but a family of 21 under one roof, I do take issue. That is abusing the system as some do with welfare, I do not see any difference between the two.

[tuckessee]

191. Comparison to cockroaches isn't hate?

Are you seroius?

[LanternWaste]

104. it's not...?

As long as no one is forcible attempting that family to adhere to their own choices, I see no problems with criticizing those same choices.

Is this "not quite progressive" rule of yours limited only to reproductive choices, or all choices in general? If only to reproductive choices, what is the precise and relevant moral difference between 'disrespecting' reproductive choices versus all the other choices?

If it's not limited to merely reproductive choices, then I may hazard that you have either a) never disrespected the choice of someone else, regardless of topic or matter, or b) you yourself are 'not quite progressive', yes?

[The Stranger]

108. They're overbreeding others, including other species, off the planet.

A Progressive sees the OVERPOPULATION problem and tries to educate these fucking idiots having so many children.

[Arugula Latte]

137. I don't understand your post. We're supposed to pretend we're happy

about these wingnuts spawning all over the place even if we "personally" think they're selfish people doing harm to the planet?

We're not trying to stop them from breeding (unlike the tactics of the other side who tries to prevent birth control and legal abortion). THAT would be non-progressive. On the other hand, we have a right to say that we think they're doing is disgusting -- free speech and first amendment rights and all.

[Duke Newcombe]

140. It's the intellectual dishonesty, Arugula...

Not saying you feel this way, but the same folks who hate these folks like it's a recreational sport are amazingly silent on large families or strangely dressed folks in other cultures, or ones they like or agree with on their politics. Do you not wonder why that is?

[Arugula Latte]

141. Well, this is closer to home. This is in our backyard.

We're subjected to TV shows glorifying these people. As Americans, we're presented with the message of, "Oh, isn't this wonderful?"

Well, it's not wonderful. Plus, an American family of 20 uses up exponentially more resources than, say, a family of 20 in a rural village in Africa.

[Duke Newcombe]

145. And American households of ONE

use up more resources than a single comparable person in Africa. The only thing that's different is scale. Given this, we should junk our computers, cut down to three changes of clothes, and stop using electricity and internal combustion vehicles. But that's not a solution--instead, focusing on providing equitable opportunity to those folks in Africa and elsewhere to have more to live on is probably a more realistic goal.

I'm squeamish about engaging in punditry or sitting in judgment about how many children "those people" should be "allowed" to have, regardless of whether I agree with their motivation or politics. This is contrary to the "Two Minute Hate" contingent here.

[and-justice-for-all]

63. If you can afford to have them, fine...

but I also consider this excessive. What is the difference between having all those kids at once or popping them out one at a time? Apparently it makes for good tv, not that I watch that crap and if some one is willing to pay you to do a show, well then so be it.

I think it is an overly glorified way of life and not one that is as tranquil as it is being persevered. With those numbers, at least 4 of them will grow up and have some sort of social issue of some sort; but we will have to wait 20 years or so to find out.

[The Stranger]

109. I don't think we as a planet can afford this type of massive overbreeding.

I know someone is going to start screaming "BUT YOU CAN'T TELL PEOPLE HOW MANY CHILDREN TO HAVE," in which case I respond, "I JUST DID."

[and-justice-for-all]

174. LOL...

It will all come to an end as mother nature sees fit. Overpopulation is a major concern, just how in the hell are we going to feed all these people? We cant even feed the ones that are here now.

[JeanGrey]

67. Congrats to them. If they do half as good a job as their

parents they'll be fine.

[hamsterjill]

101. Good job?

I don't agree that the parents are doing a good job. What is seen on television is only the "happiness" quotient.

We don't know what really goes on behind the scenes.

These children are given very limited exposure to the world. I don't think that's healthy.

[Duke Newcombe]

146. We'll NEVER know what goes on behind ANYONES doors.

And we all "limit" our kids exposure to the world--me included. It's only intellectual honesty to admin it.

[hamsterjill]

151. Most children have more exposure to the world

Most children in this country are exposed to different lifestyles, etc. through school, after school activities, etc. The Duggers are admittedly very careful about what their children are exposed to. To me, the limits that they place on these children are not healthy. The limits are too stringent. They are much more stringent than what would be considered the norm in America.

The young girls in the family are forced to be house servants. It's one thing for a child to have chores to perform, etc. in order for that child to learn responsibility, etc. But how many children do you know who are expected to do the laundry for 20 people in one household? It's my understanding that one of the young ladies in the family is responsible for the entire household's laundry. How would she have time to do anything else?

It's NOT a healthy environment for children. There is no way that these children could possibly have adequate parental time. There are simply too many children and only two parents.

[JeanGrey]

161. Well we only know what we see on television and read

about them, and so far I've seen nothing to indicate these children aren't well raised, rational and normal. Plus they aren't on public aid.

How do you know how much "exposure" they get? I'm sure they get plenty.

But we can keep hoping that a teen pregnancy or two might make them more "acceptable?"

[hamsterjill]

186. How do you know that they get plenty of exposure?

Looks like you and I will have to agree to disagree here.

When I look at that family, I see a mother and father that push their parental duties off on their older siblings. I see children who are not allowed to be individual in the way that they act and dress. I see 18 children and 2 parents and I don't believe that ratio could possibly allow adequate one-on-one time between each child and a parent.

And I see little boys who have been taught to cast their eyes downward and not look at women who are "immodestly dressed". It was explained in one of the episodes that the female members of the family use the word "Nike" as a code word to indicate to the male members of the family to look down and not look at someone who the female members deem to be "immodest". Doesn't this seem just a little bit extreme?

The Quiverful movement is all about building an army of voters who will propagate the right-wing, Republican agenda. So, if in about 20 years, that is what we have for government, don't say you weren't warned. I do not see why anyone would want to glamorize this type of family.

[sakabatou]

76. Oh dear....

[dflprincess]

81. I think she looks a little big for 3 months

especially with a first child. She's either having twins - or a "premature" 8 pounder.

My niece and I often wonder if we'll go to hell because we often pray that at least one of Duggar kids will go off the reservation soon, get some piercings, maybe a couple tatoos, or at least put on a skirt that shows her knees.

[LisaL]

84. If you are trying to imply something, the math isn't on your side.

They were married in a September, so there is no reason for them to change the due date.

[JeanGrey]

163. I just said above thread to someone that

if they wait long enough maybe one of the girls will get pregnant as a teen and then be acceptable. Your post isn't far enough. Wow

[LibDemAlways]

85. On Josh and Anna's televised wedding last year the father

of the groom invited the happy couple to share their "first ever kiss" at the conclusion of the ceremony. My teenager almost fell off her chair when she heard that.

Looks like they wasted no time making up for lost time.

I keep hoping one of the Duggar teenagers will somehow meet someone of the opposite sex that the parents will object to and thereby create some drama. It's creepy to have all those kids and not one rebel among them.

[hamsterjill]

130. I'm waiting for the tell all books

Mommy Dearest and Jim Bob Dearest!

With THAT many children, I would say the potential exists for at least one child to rebel.

If it's one of the girls, she will probably wear "immodest" clothing, too. Shock and dismay!!!

For instance, when they travel and the girls see some "immodest" woman, they say the work "Nike" as a code word and that instructs the boys to put their eyes downward and not look at the "immodest" woman. This was explained in one of the episodes of their show.

If that's not programming...I don't know what is.

[No Elephants]

93. Having babies for Jesus, to take back America for God (and Republicans)..

:puke:

[TEmperorHasNoClothes]

102. this freaky family should get a house next to octomom

along with extra taxes for populating the world with too many kids when there are so many children without parents.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

110. Just like cockroaches.

Except I think I'd prefer the company of cockroaches.

[chemenger]

114. Break out your tinfoil hats

:tinfoilhat:

There is the motive Quiverfull adherents (who are largely Conservatives) have to fill the ranks of the Repuke party.

From Wikipedia ... "As Kathryn Joyce has reported, Quiverfull authors Hess and Hess do indeed see the proliferation of conservative politics as one of the Quiverfull movement's secondary, tangible, benefits. They state,

When at the height of the Reagan Revolution the conservative faction in Washington was enforced with squads of new conservative congressmen, legislators often found themselves handcuffed by lack of like-minded staff. There simply weren't enough conservatives trained to serve in Washington in the lower and middle capacities.<2>

Hess and Hess continue by envisioning that the offspring of Quiverfull families might enter national and local politics to bring conservative majorities, publicly-funded education to bring the teaching of creationism, and business to adjure companies to adhere to what adherents see as Christian sensibilities."

Be afraid ... BE VERY AFRAID!!!
:scared:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

196. I'm not sure what the stats are...

How many people who are raised rethuglican actually remain rethuglican once they become adults?

[bamacrat]

115. Crazy Fucking People.

The son never kissed his wife until they were married, and they are both 18 and only been married 3 months and they are having their first. Insane, not just because that isnt how I would do it but,.... I mean come on how is that healthy.

[lumpy]

133. A hell of a lot healthier than what Sarah Palen's daughter is

experiencing.

[Arugula Latte]

139. Religious insanity.

Their delusions are strong.

[dflprincess]

167. And when you're 18 it's real easy to mistake lust for love

which generally doesn't make for a lasting marriage.

[JeanGrey]

178. From what I've seen around me, it is real easy to do at just

about any age.

[Blue_Tires]

118. you know, if people stopped rewarding this behavior with

media attention and freebies, they might just stop before they get to 30

[kjackson227]

124. These people have OCD.

[tammywammy]

138. I hope they have a happy and healthy baby. n/t

[24601]

152. Wasn't it Groucho who said, "I love my cigar, too"

"But I take it out of my mouth once in a while."

[LosinIt]

153. Oh, for fucking out loud!

These baby-making cretins annoy the living crap out of me. I know that I am overreacting about it, but I can't help it.

[Mind_your_head]

172. Stop it already!

Stop watching the freak show! And if this family wants to figure out how to support itself, I certainly won't be contributing to the *freak show* by watching how many 'bebbes' Mrs. vaginal-clown-car can deliver.

Geez, I can't even believe I'm typing this......who in the heck would have 18 children?

I doubt their genes are "that good".

[JeanGrey]

179. It's not that shocking. My friend has 13 brothers and sisters.

They are a big happy family and most of them seem just fine. I've known them for years.

[JenniferJuniper]

182. Anybody else out here old enough to remember the Loud Family?

America's first reality show family. The aftermath of that show was just horrible for that family. And most of those kids were at least in their late teens at the time.

Not only are we seeing parents who are using their daughters (the boys don't seem to do too much) to cook, clean, launder, and raise their endless baby siblings (until they are married off to some fundy boy they barely know to start their own brood) but they are doing it with cameras in their faces. And I have no doubt those smiles we see on all of the kids are required. (There is no possible way that a 19 year old boy can be THAT happy sharing a bedroom with 9 little brothers.)

Paul Peterson, who played the son on the Donna Reed's show runs an organization called A Minor Consideration and has some scathing criticism on their website for all parents who use their children in this fashion. Whether the Duggars are doing it for money or to promote the Quiverfull lifestyle, what they are doing to those minor children, who cannot consent to any of this, is simply wrong.

So please don't tell me it's "all good" with the Duggars. Or Jon and Kate. Or the dwarf family whose name escapes me. Nothing about it is good for the kids.

[Raine]

192. I remember the Louds

I watched the show "An American Family" on PBS. Being on TV destroyed the family, the parents even ended up divorced, was sad what happened to them.

[paparush]

188. My interpretation of the family photo-

[tuckessee]

189. Good for them. They seem like nice people.

Wouldn't mind it a bit if they were my neighbors.

I wish them nothing but the best.

[vaberella]

190. That's a lot of J names. n/t

[sazerac]

197. Makeup

I thought it was interesting to see the new bride, Anna, putting on makeup for her wedding. The other girls were helping her.