Spanish AG says no torture probe of US officials

[kpete]

Source: Associated Press

Spanish AG says no torture probe of US officials
AP


By PAUL HAVEN, Associated Press Writer Paul Haven, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 49 mins ago

MADRID – Spanish prosecutors will recommend against opening an investigation into whether six Bush administration officials sanctioned torture against terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay, the country's attorney-general said Thursday.

Candido Conde-Pumpido said the case against the high-ranking U.S. officials — including former U.S. Attorney-General Alberto Gonzales — was without merit because the men were not present when the alleged torture took place.

"If one is dealing with a crime of mistreatment of prisoners of war, the complaint should go against those who physically carried it out," Conde-Pumpido said in a breakfast meeting with journalists. He said a trial of the men would have turned Spain's National Court "into a plaything" to be used for political ends.

Prosecutors at Spain's National Court have not formally announced their decision in the case, but Conde-Pumpido is the country's top law-enforcement official and has the ultimate say.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090416/ap_on_re_eu/eu_spain_us_torture

[Ohio Joe]

1. Disappointing

I don't think it really would have come to/accomplished anything anyway but it is still disappointing.

[cobalt1999]

2. Of course there isn't.

No U.S. administration would allow that to happen.

There would massive backroom pressure from the Obama administration to stop it.

[rateyes]

3. So Conde-Pumpido is a damned coward, too. nt

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeFree]

5. How much?

Not much. Probably about 10% of what our congress has sold themselves for.

Why doesn't our congress have the courage to tackle our own problems? Why does Spain even have to entertain the idea?

[Dhalgren]

9. How about "our" President?

What was the price of his "sell-out"? You can't possibly call the Spanish authorities "cowards" or "sell-outs" when it is our own President's administration that has betrayed the rule of law and justice. I guess now Mr. President can go golfing with GHWB and Bill and be "one of the boys"...

:puke:

[EFerrari]

16. The judge went over the prosecutor's head in that case.

Maybe he will in this one, too.

[NV Whino]

6. Oh I see...

a little cash changed hands somewhere along the line.

[Frustratedlady]

7. What about the Nazi trials?

Were those convicted the ones who ordered the exterminations, or those who actually did them?

Perhaps the worst punishment will have to be the general opinion of all peoples of the world. The opinion that they are guilty in most peoples' minds and it has never been proven otherwise? These men shall go to their graves with that general concensus? Am I wrong?

[ananda]

8. What are they scared of?

Dick Cheney's assassination squad?

[sattahipdeep]

11. intellectually responsible

While saying his office supported the principal of universal justice, Mr Conde-Pumpido said that if there was a legitimate reason to file a complaint against the six accused, "it should be done before local courts with jurisdiction, in other words in the United States".

"It is a terrible precedent if those intellectually responsible for crimes can no longer be held accountable"
Gonzalo Boye
Spanish human rights lawyer

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8002262.stm

[Vidar]

10. Damn.

[notadmblnd]

12. I wonder how big the suitcase was that he got his payoff in?

[rhett o rick]

30. He just got a phone call. nm

[bdamomma]

13. crap, are we ever going to see these criminals prosecuted?

if they are not, we are as guilty as them.

[ensho]

14. so the neo cons GOT to Spain - maybe it is up to us to obtain Justice

we have to find a source that is NOT afraid of the murderous neo cons

[EFerrari]

15. The case could still go forward. Amy reports:

"The suit could still go forward despite the prosecutors’ stance. The presiding judge, Baltasar Garzon, pursued the case against former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet over prosecutors’ advice."

[The Hope Mobile]

17. Spain rules out torture probe of US Officials

Source: AP and MSNBC

Spain rules out torture probe of U.S. officials
Lawyers had alleged that so-called 'Bush Six' sanctioned abuse at Gitmo
updated 2:41 a.m. PT, Thurs., April 16, 2009

MADRID - Spanish prosecutors will recommend against opening an investigation into whether six Bush administration officials sanctioned torture against terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay, the country's attorney-general said Thursday.

Candido Conde-Pumpido said the case against the high-ranking U.S. officials — including former U.S. Attorney-General Alberto Gonzales — was without merit because the men were not present when the alleged torture took place.

"If one is dealing with a crime of mistreatment of prisoners of war, the complaint should go against those who physically carried it out," Conde-Pumpido said in a breakfast meeting with journalists. He said a trial of the men would have turned Spain's National Court "into a plaything" to be used for political ends.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

Prosecutors at Spain's National Court have not formally announced their decision in the case, but Conde-Pumpido is the country's top law-enforcement official and has the ultimate say.

Coming less than three months after the Bush administration left office, the case was the first of several international efforts to indict former administration officials. Human rights groups have also tried to bring suit against Bush officials in a German court.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30241123/

---

I wonder who convinced them not to do it. I hope it wasn't Obama.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

18. so they couldn't arrest the Nazi generals because they didn't carry out the torture and killings

now there's a thing?:wtf:

[billyoc]

19. Damn, I was hoping to collect some reward money.

Asi, es la vida.

[no_hypocrisy]

20. Okay, who do you think got to them?

Or was it a phonecall or a personal visit?

[bemildred]

21. The headline seems to go a bit beyond the facts. nt

[The Hope Mobile]

24. Can you explain?? Thanks! nt

[EFerrari]

25. See #15. n/t

[bemildred]

26. Yah, the prosecutors are not the deciders. nt

[EFerrari]

28. Someone forgot to tell the editors at Authorized Propaganda. n/t

[The Hope Mobile]

33. Thanks! nt

[derby378]

22. Hope the judge doesn't choke under the pressure

Go get 'em!

[9119495]

23. Damn it. I was really hoping to avoid seeing Bill O'Reilly

if I went there this summer. Now that his boycot is probably going to be lifted, we might end up eating tapas right next to each other.

[Jefferson23]

41. From the article:

"If one is dealing with a crime of mistreatment of prisoners of war, the complaint should go against those who physically carried it out,"


That seems way too convenient since we know that Panetta is not going after those who took orders within the CIA. The argument he makes for it is suspicious to me as well, not going after those who gave the green light, those who did so based on the interpretations of torture all speak to the Bush Six. There is already a legal precedent that we, the US, prosecuted a lawyer for the Nazi's, his use of the law was twisted, and we won that case.

[Renew Deal]

27. What about those that gave the order?

I think they are guiltier than a soldier on the ground.

[rhett o rick]

29. Sad news. Some very powerful enity got to them. nm

[DebbieCDC]

31. That never stopped them from going after Pinochet

[Betty]

32. nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition

is the proper response, I believe.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

34. No Torture Probe Of Bush Admin Officials: Spanish AG

Source: Huffington Post

MADRID — Spain's attorney general has rejected opening an investigation into whether six Bush administration officials sanctioned torture against terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay, saying Thursday a U.S. courtroom would be the proper forum.

Candido Conde-Pumpido's remarks severely dampen the chance of a case moving forward against the Americans, including former U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Conde-Pumpido said such a trial would have turned Spain's National Court "into a plaything" to be used for political ends.

"If there is a reason to file a complaint against these people, it should be done before local courts with jurisdiction, in other words in the United States," he said in a breakfast meeting with journalists.

Spanish law gives its courts jurisdiction beyond national borders in cases of torture, war crimes and other heinous offenses, based on a doctrine known as universal justice, but the government has made clear it wants to rein in the process.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/16/spanish-attorney-general-_n_187712.html

---

Well, all hopes dashed because Spain decides it now wants ". . . to rein in the process."

Goddamn ..................

[Duer 157099]

35. Fuckers

I'm really disappointed. Too much goddamned upsetting news today

[DJ13]

36. Sounds like our State Department put the fear of God in them

Sad.

[ProgressIn2008]

37. "in other words in the United States"... sounds like it's up to us. nt

[Stinky The Clown]

38. For what its worth .... when they went after Generalissimo Gus ......

....... the prosecutor made the same argument. The judge prevailed. The rest is history.

I agree. This ain't good.

But with any luck at all, it ain't over.

[santamargarita]

39. We have to find a way to get these goddamn Bush assholes behind bars...

for murder! This pisses me off to no end!!!

[zazen]

40. perhaps this is coordinated; if Spain prosecuted, it'd mobilize US sentiment AGAINST prosecution

This seems to be part of a carefully orchestrated PR plan aimed at minimizing sympathy among the swing vote for the Bush cabal.

Forgiving the underlings, since it seems unfair to go after the "little guy."

Refusing to prosecute in Spain, because it'd mobilize America's arrogant "patriotism" among the swing vote to automatically and aggressively defend OUR ex-president, no matter what he did.

Releasing the odious torture memos after taking their time and appearing to not rush in for vengeance.

Saving Stevens.


The Left wants to prosecute; the Right's full of crazies. He needs the mainstream that helped put him over the top to support going after the monsters at the top.

I'll give him a few more months before I write this off.

[Jefferson23]

42. Looks like Nadler is going after a SP from Holder,

Congressman Jerrold Nadler Calls for a Special Prosecutor for Torture
Submitted by davidswanson on Fri, 2009-04-17 17:08.


Congressman Jerrold Nadler has just publicly asked that the Attorney General appoint a special prosecutor. Please THANK HIM, and please ask him and ask your congress member to jointly send to Eric Holder the letter that Nadler and 55 other congress members sent to Michael Mukasey requesting a special prosecutor last summer, or an updated version thereof.

Here is a release from Nadler's office:

CONGRESSMAN JERROLD NADLER
8th Congressional District of New York
Nadler Applauds Obama Administration's Transparency on Torture Memos
Renews Call for Special Prosecutor and Congressional Investigation

NEW YORK, N.Y. – Today, Congressman Jerrold Nadler (NY-08), Chair of the House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, praised President Obama and the Department of Justice for releasing four legal memos on the torture of detainees that had previously been concealed by the Bush administration. Rep. Nadler, however, called on the Obama administration to go further and appoint a special prosecutor to investigate and, if necessary, prosecute those responsible for authorizing the torture. He also said that a Congressional investigation is absolutely warranted. Rep Nadler released the following statement:

“While I applaud the Obama administration for releasing these torture memos in the spirit of openness and transparency, the memos' alarming content requires further action. These memos, without a shadow of a doubt, authorized torture and gave explicit instruction on how to carry it out, all the while carefully attempting to maintain a legal fig leaf.

“These memos make it abundantly clear that the Bush administration engaged in torture. Because torture is illegal under American law – as the U.S. is a signatory to the Convention Against Torture – we are legally required to investigate and, when appropriate, to prosecute those responsible for these crimes.

“I commend President Obama for his unequivocal rejection of torture and for his resolve to move forward. The President's intentions are honorable, but don't go far enough. All history teaches us that simply shining a light on criminal acts without holding the responsible people accountable will not prevent repetition of those acts.

“I have previously urged Attorneys General Gonzalez and Mukasey to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the torture abuses of the Bush administration, and now I will convey that same necessity to President Obama and Attorney General Holder. We sorely need an independent investigation that will provide accountability for these terrible crimes. This investigation should not be a witch-hunt to punish those rank-and-file C.I.A. operatives who acted in good faith on Justice Department instructions. At the very least, those who wrote and authorized the memos knowing full well that they were instructing others to torture must be held accountable to the law.

“We must have a criminal investigation if the U.S. is to reclaim its moral authority and prevent repetition of these crimes.

“As Michael Ratner of the Center for Constitutional Rights said yesterday, ‘Whether or not to prosecute law breakers is not a political decision. Laws were broken and crimes were committed. If we are truly a nation of laws . . . a prosecutor needs to be appointed and the decisions regarding the guilt of those involved in the torture program should be decided in a court of law.’

“Furthermore, the revelations contained in these memos make it abundantly clear that we need additional Congressional oversight hearings on this matter. We intend to hold such hearings.

“Finally, I particularly want to thank the American Civil Liberties Union for their role in bringing these memos to light and for their vigilant efforts to ensure that the United States government does not engage in torture.”

Following are the memos released yesterday: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20090416_memos.pdf.


Jerrold Nadler has served in Congress since 1992. He represents New Yorks 8th Congressional District, which includes parts of Manhattan and Brooklyn

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/41806

[Igel]

43. While the headline overreaches,

it's always best to remember that "may prosecute" entails "may not prosecute". People confuse hope and expectations for reality a bit too often.

At the same time, there may be perfectly sound legal reasons for not hearing the case. If you're going to go after the mafia boss for murder, you'd better at least go after the men who pulled the trigger and buried the corpse. In any event, this is for torture--which gets at once into petty arguments over whether slapping is torture, if there's a solid definition of what "degrading" treatment is, etc., etc. Over whether Spain's law does, as it seems, require that Spain become the courtroom for the world, if anybody connected to Spain is involved--which seems to be a bit much, if you ask me. Over whether the courts should dictate, in essence, Spanish foreign policy. Over whether it's possible to try somebody whose defense might well require the release of classified information--in other words, they defend themselves, they get nailed; they don't defend themselves, they get nailed. Over some snarly issues of evidence--much of the "evidence" was press reports ... how many reporters do we want extradicted to testify about their informants, and do we want them extradicted?

And so it goes. Of course, while the news is now that Spain may not prosecute, it's still best to remember that "may not" entails "may".