Disappointment with US not prosecuting CIA

[sabra]

Source: AP

CAIRO (AP) — Human rights groups and former detainees in U.S. custody expressed disappointment Friday with the decision by President Barack Obama not to prosecute CIA operatives who used interrogation practices described by many as torture.

Obama sought to turn a page on what he called "a dark and painful chapter" with his announcement a day earlier. He condemned the aggressive techniques — including waterboarding, shackling and stripping — used on terror suspects while promising not to legally pursue the perpetrators.

But the decision left some bitter in the Muslim world, where there was widespread anger over abuse of detained terror suspects. It could tarnish somewhat Obama's growing popularity among Arabs and Muslims, who have cheered his promises to close the Guantanamo Bay detention facilities and withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq.

"All of us in Guantanamo never had hope or faith in the American government," said Jomaa al-Dosari, a Saudi who spent six years in Guantanamo before being released last year. "We only ask God for our rights and to demand justice for the wrongs we experience in this life. There will be a time in history when every person who committed a wrong will be punished."

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gcf8odiL7Aym4L8F3SWAH-_EQPDgD97K96600

[Uben]

1. I'm sorry but.......

......the seating of Al Franken should have been part of this decision. I hope it was.

[Solly Mack]

2. K&R

[closeupready]

3. Take heart, people! This is part of Obama's super-secret squirrel plan to

eventually cure cancer, bring word peace and make the world love America again. This takes time. :sarcasm:

[Raster]

4. YES, and to tender ANY criticism of this or any of his other decisions is

to specifically aid the forces of darkness. Furthermore, while it may have been OK to question previous administrations, this administration is sacrosanct because it is a Democratic administration. And furthermore, if you don't toe the party line and if you continue to question anything this administration says or does, the Obamatrons of DU will deride and insult you until you submit.
So there!:sarcasm:

[RufusTFirefly]

13. That's right! Let's move on!!

What's the big deal? It's only torture.
Besides, Obama hasn't even been in office for 100 days yet!!!

Just you wait: On May 1, Timothy Geithner will undergo a miraculous transformation, Rahm Emmanuel will morph into Howard Dean, and torture will be replaced by candies and flowers for everyone!!!

P.S. I love Sarah Palin!!!

[ensho]

5. I thought we elected Obama so the neo con bush gang would be prosecuted

and all the crimes they committed would be rectified


I'm so disappointed and angry its hard to find words

[torbird]

9. When did Obama ever say he was going to prosecute anybody?

If you voted for him for that reason, then you kidded yourself. He never said that. He didn't even imply it.

He's a compromiser and a dedicated "aisle-reacher-acrosser" and that's all he ever claimed to be.

Disappointing that he doesn't get it? Yes. Betrayed/lied to? No. Not at all.

By the way, this is all fine and well while a Democrat is president, but this kind of shit is exactly what allowed Bush to do what he did in the first place. If not for Ford's pardon of Nixon, thereby excusing all past and future presidential transgressions, Bush never could have expanded such things as interrogation techniques, and that broad principle of forget and cover-up has been applied here to all administrative actions, apparently. So, fuck Obama for not learning his history, I guess.

But on balance, I'll still back him over any other possible president from this most recent cycle.

[closeupready]

10. "this most recent cycle" is over. That was then. This is now.

Further, he indicated countless times that he wanted voters to hold him accountable. If you fail to do that, you are being irresponsible, not only with regard to what his specific request was, but also in terms of your civic duty.

Now, as to what form that accountability takes, I guess that's a matter for discussion.

[Baby Snooks]

27. Well he reached across the wrong aisle...

Releasing documents detailing the torture and then saying no one will be held accountable for it only serves to underscore the message of Osama bin Laden. Which is a message the American people apparently didn't listen to. These people hated us to begin with. They hate us even more now. It has done nothing but fan the flames.

They hate us along with the rest of the world. We are a shameful nation. Made more shameful by all of this.

There is no change from this president who promised change. He has embraced the same people, the same principles, the same policies.

He has reached across the aisle. But he reached across the wrong aisle...

[ensho]

34. I never said he did - I said we elected him expecting him to do it

nt

[imdjh]

11. Has a european nation ever put its last president or government on trial?

I don't mean a conquered nation or one which had just had a revolution. I mean a trial of the former government after a peaceful transfer of power.

Think about what you are expecting this nation to do. Sure, we would like to throw the whole damned bunch of them in jail, but what does that do to our nation and our form of government?
Will a government allow itself to be voted out if the successor is going to put it on trial and throw it in jail?

[closeupready]

12. Italy, I believe, for one.

n/t

[imdjh]

16. Yeah, and how many governments has Italy had since the end of WWII?

[closeupready]

18. Irrelevant. I answered the question in the affirmative.

But aside from that, I believe members of East Germany's government were put on trial. There was Ceaucescu, of course.

[Downwinder]

28. France n/t

[htuttle]

17. Isreal, though they're not European, fits the rest of your description

Moshe Katsav was formally indicted in March this year after 'a peaceful transfer of power.'

[closeupready]

20. France, of course, put members of the Vichy government on trial, IIRC.

n/t

[closeupready]

21. Maurice Papon.

n/t

[Liberalynn]

32. Our fore father's expected us to be different from other Nations

When elected leaders commited illegal acts we were supposed to be able to hold them accountable without having to resort to other less desirable means. That's why they included processes for impeachment to begin with.

Its supposed to be what makes the U.S. the U.S. I just wish our elected leaders would remember that. We need to keep reminding them, though they don't seem to be listening.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. Euro centric much?

Peru just did it. They jailed their former President for 25 years for crimes against humanity. So that's South America, does it not count because of that?

[closeupready]

36. Thank you. The racism/neocolonialism on this thread is getting thick as thieves.

n/t

[imdjh]

51. Sorry, I forgot that our country and culture fell from outer space. Silly me.

[EFerrari]

42. Peru just convicted Fujimori.

He got twenty five years for murder and kidnapping, i.e., death squads. So, if Peru can do it, we can do it. :)

[No Elephants]

43. The adverse consequences of not prosecuting Bushco are going to be FAR greater than the

adverse consequences of letting them off.

Obama is not staying faithful to his oath of office, nor is he doing the right thing. The consequences of those things to this country will be horrendous in the long run.

Look only forward. :puke:

[jewishlibrl]

49. Latin America has: Fujimori and Pinochet

Probablly others whose names I can't recall.

[florida08]

6. you know

Christopher Hitchens was on this morning and said something interesting. His worry was that if somehow an attack gets by the government again it's not from a Gitmo detainee who was tortured and then released because of no supporting evidence. Not a fan but I thought he had a point.

[judy]

7. The Obama-MLK fist jab sign now feels so ironic...

I think Obama is a good man, and miles above Bush slime. However, all comparisons with MLK are now in my view obsolete. Obama now has blood on his hands in Afghanistan and Pakistan (as if bombing anyone would eradicate terrorism...), he has let the war profiteers continue to rape Iraq, and his "don't look back policy" is a tacit acceptance of practices that he had previously repudiated.

Following his reasoning, criminals should all be freed "let's not look to the past"...why does it apply to the Bushies, and not to the million of people rotting in US jails? Stupid question...
His mistaking the rule of law for vengeance or retaliation, is also very troubling.

GRRRRR. He needs to be clear as crystal and solid as a rock to prevent the fascist uprising that is being worked on by the media and talk radio...come on, Barack!

[Stargleamer]

8. "turning a page. . ."

similar language to what Gerald Ford used when he pardoned Nixon for "any crimes he may have committed".

[freemarketer6]

14. I am furious-- nft

dd

[antimatter98]

15. Obama has no guts to roll the hard six. He's a tool of the power structure, incl. CIA. n/t

[90-percent]

19. also

We also elected a Democratic Majority back in 2006 to end the Iraq War.

How's that workin' out for yah?

(in the words of Dr. Phil)

-90% jimmy

[Swagman]

22. why can't a Federal prosecutor take them to court ?

it doesn't have to be Obama does it ?. What the hell is the FBI for ?

[GoCubsGo]

25. How many of those are Bushbots?

Sometimes I wonder if they're trying to clean house in the Justice Dept. before they can go ahead with any investigations. It's still infested with Monica Goodling clones. I also wonder what is the matter with Congress. Don't they have any power to investigate and prosecute this matter?

[No Elephants]

44. "Trying" to clean house? They can fire them, if they choose. Sure, blame the

D of J, but they work for Obama. Blame anybody but Obama.

[Downwinder]

30. inspecting fan belts.

[No Elephants]

45. Federal prosecutors work for Obama. The FBI works for Obama, too. It's

called the Executive Branch for a reason.

[AzDar]

23. Preserve, Protect , and Defend already, Mr. Obama!

It's not supposed to be OPTIONAL...

:patriot:

[4dsc]

24. If shoe was on the other foot...

Now how many truly believe that had the last 8 years had a democratic party president who violated the law, the way the Bush administration did, and we now had a republican president and congress, that they(the GOP) wouldn't be taking a different course of action aka PROSECUTING THE SHIT OUT OF DEMOCRAT'S?

This whole issue is leaving a very bad taste in my mouth about Obama and the rest of the weaklings that populate our cause..

[Downwinder]

26. Why are we worrying about John Demjanjuk? He was just following orders. n/t

[Nihil]

31. Cause he's *foreign* ...

... the rules only apply to little folks and foreigners ...

(And no, that *wasn't* sarcasm)

[personman]

46. The german nazis get deported, the domestic ones get their own shows on fox.

(There would be a cymbal crash here if I was joking...but I'm not.)

[personman]

29. shameful but not surprising

As Chomsky said recently on Democracy Now!, I didn't really have much expectation that Obama would be anything other than what he presented himself as, a centrist-democrat, who will continue Bush's policies, but maybe in a more modulated way. Reading "A People's History of the United States," by Howard Zinn, and "Hegemony or Survival" by Noam Chomsky, shows this is pretty typical regardless of the party in power.

I'm certainly closer to the democrats than the republicans, and I voted for Obama, but I don't place much faith in either party. I have identified as a libertarian-left anarchist for a few years now, (or as I call it, my escape in to elementary rationality) and though I'll keep an open mind, I don't see that changing any time soon.

-Andy

[closeupready]

37. Wow. So basically, you don't give a shit what happens.

Must be a nice world you live in, cushioned from important things that happen.

[personman]

39. I don't give a shit? I don't know where you're getting that from.

Maybe you are under the mistaken impression that anarchism entails political apathy. I'm not that kind of anarchist. I'm an ultra-political humanist anarchist, and I'm deeply empathetic to those people tortured and mistreated (as well as the ones we bomb or sanction the bombing of)

I care a LOT... I'm just not at all surprised, and I fairly accurately predicted that there would be some (rightfully) disillusioned democrats once Obama's largely status-quo policies were implemented, which is pretty much what this thread is about...

I give such a huge shit that (though I vote) I reject both political parties for their complicity in this (as well as many other things)

Which is one reason why I'm here advocating anarchist ideas...and why I started a website to discuss anarchist ideas...

Now what surprises me, is that anyone is surprised by this. I'm no historian, but I've read enough to know this is all par for course. I fully expected it. That does NOT in any way shape or form mean that I agree with it, or that I think it shouldn't be challenged. As I said, it is shameful, but not surprising. If people want to change it, they should join the/a movement. Don't wait to follow the leader.

-Andy

[closeupready]

40. Oh, okay - sorry! I misinterpreted you there.

Peace. :hi:

[personman]

41. No problem. :) n/t

[Iowa]

48. WTF?

That is neither what he said, nor what he implied. His position is one of any number of reasonable conclusions and reflects the views of someone who has clearly taken the time to think it through. Your gratuitous attack on that poster makes no sense whatsoever and comes across as capricious sniping.

EDIT: I didn't see your apology before posting - got a phone call in the middle of typing.

[alfredo]

35. There used to be a way to view redacted text in Adobe Acrobat files.

Open the document in Acrobat Reader, select redacted text, copy and paste into a word processor. I think that is how it works.

OK, I just tried it and the document appears to be secure. That shows they are smarter than the bush junta.

[TNOE]

38. That Karma will be a bitch though

they're right about that.

[DebbieCDC]

47. I think Obama is not going to find his welcome as enthusiastic on his next trip overseas

As it was this time...people in Europe are upset and distressed over this and are a LOT of us here. I think his warm welcome in Europe will be somewhat colder next time around.

[iandhr]

50. Sorry

IF are a officer and you are told your superiors that your actions were legal. Then those people should not be prosecuted.

[EFerrari]

52. Wrong. You should refuse the illegal order.

God help me. I can't believe all the people here defending TORTURERS.