NATO Stops Pirate Attack On Norwegian Ship

[Towlie]

Source: Voice of America

NATO officials say a warship and helicopters came to the rescue of the MV Front Ardenne late Saturday after it was attacked by pirates in a small skiff.

The officials say the pirates fled but were hunted down in the dark by a Canadian ship.

Forces aboard that ship briefly detained seven gunmen. The Associated Press quotes a NATO spokesman (Lieutenant Commander Alexandre Santos Fernandes) as saying the pirates were released because they cannot be prosecuted under Canadian law.

Read more: http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-04-19-voa9.cfm

---

Looks like the world finally has the Somali pirate problem under control! With a few more of those brief detentions, the pirates will undoubtedly learn that crime does not pay.

[xchrom]

1. recommend

[ShareTheWoods]

2. Yeah, those brief detentions will teach them a lesson

I guess the pirates will need to be caught in the act next time. Oh wait...

[Historic NY]

3. I don't get it catch & release. Must be some emasculated UN Law.

[tocqueville]

4. it has nothing to do with the UN

The pirates cannot be prosecuted under Canadian law because they did not attack Canadian citizens or interests and the crime was not committed on Canadian territory.

"When a ship is part of NATO, the detention of person is a matter for the national authorities," Fernandes said. "It stops being a NATO issue and starts being a national issue."

The pirates' release underscores the difficulties navies have in fighting rampant piracy off the coast of lawless Somalia. Most of the time foreign navies simply disarm and release the pirates they catch due to legal complications and logistical difficulties in transporting pirates and witnesses to court.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090419/ap_on_re_af/piracy_4

same story with the Dutch

and :

"There exists no legal framework in the NATO for arrests to be carried out," Middel explained.

"The Law of the Sea Convention gives foreign warships the right to prevent, deter and respond to acts of piracy but it does not apply to territorial waters and inadequately addresses the issue of transfer ashore."

besides it's legally a different matter if the intervention happens on territorial waters or on international waters.

law is law, no matter how incomplete it can be and the same for everybody

imagine the outcry it would be if some AMERICAN doing some piracy on AMERICAN territorial waters and was "abducted" by a legally present foreign warship and transfered to another country...

[christx30]

6. Can we at least

destroy their ships and confiscate their weapons? give them a paddle board and tell them that shore is 200 miles that way?
This should not be a hard line stance. What good is NATO being in the area if they can't do anything if they capture the bad guys? Should we instead adopt a shoot first policy? Change the law to reflect the times. The pirates are just going to go out and attempt to hijack another ship. Next time he or someone else could get hurt or killed. It's better for everyone involved for the criminal to go to jail.

And the American thing... If the AMERICAN is conducting piracy in AMERICAN territorial waters, that AMERICAN is a criminal and should be prosecuted.

[tocqueville]

12. yes he should be prosecuted

but since the crime happens on American territory (in that hypothetical case), by American authorities, not by a third part. If an American commits a crime against a foreigner in the US, he is normally prosecuted by American authorities, not by the country of origin of the victim. It's even more complicated when "the cop" arresting the criminal is of foreign nationality (coalition intervention).

If Ben Laden is arrested by an Afghan cop or Canadians in Afghanistan, he would supposedly being primarily turned over to Afghan authorities. Then the US can ask for immediate extradition. This is the basic rule and it applies to Somalia too. Or else any repressive force could act with impunity over other countries territory !!!! It's another thing of course if the concerned country grants a right of pursuit over the border to other nationals.

Regarding the "paddle proposition", what's the next step ? the plank, and swim to land ? In the early cases the French when they couldn't detain the guys for the same reasons than above, flew them to Djibouti and extradited them to Somalia. By the book, yes but a loss of time, military ressources and money that can be used to fight the pirates instead. Besides the weapons are always confiscated.
And shooting them first ? you must be kidding. For the first you don't shoot people first unless there is an acute death threat, for the second it would only inflame the situation and lead to the execution and/or bad treatment of already detained hostages (roughly 250) while there were no such cases before.

It doesn't really matter if the guys in the beginning come back ashore unpunished. If we can make the business of piracy unprofitable by deterrence, it will cease and we will avoid a land intervention. What we need is more specialised naval/aerial ressources. So far those ressources have been mostly provided by Europeans. The US woke up when one of their ships got abducted and wil probably provide more ressources like more adapted warships, aerial reconaissance, drones etc...

[Swede Atlanta]

5. This has nothing to do with UN Law......

In the various reports that have come out recently including the one where the Dutch Navy rescued several fishermen who were being held by pirates and briefly detained the pirates, under Dutch law and now in this case under Canadian law, they lack legal authority to detain the pirates indefinitely.

Most maritime law limits territorial jurisdiction on the high seas to nationals and ships registered to the nation in question. So if this had involved a Canadian ship or Canadian citizens, they could have held the pirates and brought them back for prosecution. That is why the one pirate caught by the U.S. Navy is being returned to the U.S. for prosecution - the crimes involved a ship of U.S. registry as well as U.S. nationals.

And quite honestly I don't think I want a broad expansion of maritime jurisdiction where any nation could seize alleged criminals on the high sea regardless of the registry of the ship, the territorial waters in which the alleged crimes took place or the nationality of the victims. A carte blanche expansion would be very dangerous.

I would welcome the development of a framework under the UN to allow nations participating in anti-pirating actions whether along the Somali coast or in other hotspots such as the Straits of Mallaca in Asia, had broader legal authority to detain and bind over pirates for prosecution by competent authorities.

[Posteritatis]

11. Excellent explanation of things (nt)

[tocqueville]

14. hey the Swedes are joining the fight...

Sweden plans to send two corvettes, one support ship and a security force of about 160 personnel to help defend shipping lanes off the Somali coast.

http://www.thelocal.se/18874/20090416/

The corvettes HMS Stockholm and HMS Malmö , the 2,140-ton auxiliary HMS Trossö , and 150 personnel are preparing to deploy in April or May for a period of four months, a spokesman for Swedish Defence Minister Sten Tolgfors told Jane's on 4 February.

Välkommen ombord !

[tocqueville]

16. here are some videos about NAVFOR and links

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGk-ZMSYLKo&feature=SeriesPlayList&p=1E38C5ACA1C62E5A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li5Wj_YQdVw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6wHUErJbKw&feature=related

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8wnvd_somali-pirates-attack-german-navy-s_news

details about the ships involved :

France - FS Commadant Ducuing | FS Floreal | FS Nivose | FS PM L’Her | FS Jeanne D’Arc | FS Georges Leygues | FS Commadant Bouan
Germany - FGS Karlsruhe | FGS Rheinland Pfalz | FGS Spessart | FGS Mecklenburg-Vorpommern | FGS Emden
United Kingdom - HMS Northumberland
Greece - HS Psara | HS Nikiforos Fokas
Sweden - HMS Trossö | HMS Malmo | HMS Stockholm
Spain - SPS Victoria | SPS Numancia | SPS Marques De La Ensenada
Netherlands - HNLMS Evertsen
Italy - ITS Maestrale | ITS Bettica

FORCE BIOGRAPHIES

Commander EU Naval Force - Rear Admiral P A Jones
Deputy Operation Commander EU Naval Force - Rear Admiral J-P Labonne
Force Commander EU Naval Force - Captain Garat Caramé

http://www.mschoa.org/ForceInfo.aspx
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/showPage.aspx?id=1518&lang=en

[Posteritatis]

10. No, it's a proper application of member nations' laws

Extraterritoriality sucks, whether it's being abroad and exempting yourself from your host's laws, or enforcing your own laws outside of your jurisdiction.

[underpants]

7. PICS

Hostages and pirates stand with their hands up before the intervention of Dutch NATO soldiers off Somalia's coast in this NATO handout photo made available April 18, 2009. Dutch commandos freed 20 Yemeni hostages on Saturday and briefly detained seven pirates who had forced the Yemenis to sail a "mother ship" attacking vessels in the Gulf of Aden, NATO officials said. REUTERS/NATO/Handout


Dutch NATO soldiers intervene on a ship off Somalia's coast in this NATO handout photo made available April 18, 2009. Dutch commandos freed 20 Yemeni hostages on Saturday and briefly detained seven pirates who had forced the Yemenis to sail a "mother ship" attacking vessels in the Gulf of Aden, NATO officials said.

NATO ship foils pirates, frees hostages in Gulf of Aden
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/04/19/2009-04-19_nato_ship_foils_sea_thieves_frees_hostages.html

[SpartanDem]

8. Clearly

these nations are going need to update their laws to be the US's where an attack on their interest and ships anywhere in world is a prosecutable offense. It does no good thwart an attack only to have to let these thugs go.

[CanonRay]

9. I hope they at least confiscated their AK-47s!

[tocqueville]

13. French navy planners offer anti-pirate ship

As navies and shipowners try to combat an upsurge in deadly pirate attacks off the Somali coast, a French company is offering a new vessel specially designed to tame the scourge.

French naval armaments group DCNS sees the solution in a fast, manoeuvrable ninety-metre-(280-foot) long ship, equipped with all the latest surveillance equipment, including drones and rapidly deployed speed boats.

A 15-strong DCNS design team based in Lorient, on the French northwest coast, say their new ship will incorporate the best of civilian and military technology to allow navies to deal effectively with pirates and drug traders or to provide aid to refugees.

To work out what was needed, "we got in touch with marine commandos based in Lorient," said Marc Maynard, head of the project.

Speed is of the essence against pirates like those off the Somali coast who use motherships to deploy fast speedboats to attack their prey and so the new vessel will be able to get two marine units afloat from the rear in about five minutes, Maynard said.

http://news.id.msn.com/business/article.aspx?cp-documentid=3188704

[Fendius]

15. Lets not let piracy become the new "terrorism"....

Any excuse for our military to act, is an excuse for the far right to make money, and keep breathing... Seriously, Piracy is an issue of course, But the media seem hellbent on making them to be America's new enemy... Lets noy forget to learn and listen first...

[ohio2007]

17. U.S. Mulls Striking Somali Terrorist Training Camps

Mr president, the "recruiting station" camps are in range....

The Obama administration is watching more than just pirates in Somalia. Officials have been tracking a Somali terrorist group and are weighing whether to strike some of its training camps. The fear is that the group, al-Shabab, could join forces with al-Qaida and target the U.S

snip

The al-Shabab camps have a kind of open-door policy: They don't just train al-Shabab recruits; they will welcome anyone who arrives claiming to fight for jihad. Two recent suicide bombings targeting South Korean tourists in Yemen were linked to the al-Shabab camps.

snip

Al-Shabab means "The Youth" in Arabic, and in many ways, that describes the militia perfectly. The members are young and portray themselves as a kind of jihadi hip. The recruiters who try to convince new soldiers to come into the fold look like young men who have just barely entered their teens, and the group's recruitment videos are filled with hip-hop music.

"We're simply fighting for the sake of Allah, and we're defending the religion of Allah," one young man says in a video. "We have a global mission. That's why America puts us number 41 in the terrorist list." That's not a translation of an al-Shabab video — it was actually produced in English, clearly for a Western audience.

The FBI believes such videos — along with recruiters on the ground — helped convince some young Somali-Americans to join al-Shabab. At least two dozen young men from Minneapolis, which has the largest Somali community in the U.S., have gone missing over the past two years.

That raises another problem for U.S. planners mulling a military strike: If American citizens are on the ground, could they carry out a military attack?


Killing American teenagers from Minneapolis could be a political nightmare.



snip


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103270789&ft=1&f=1001

btw

Should Al Franken be consulted ?


Where does he stand ? Has he released a statement ?


http://blog.alfranken.com/

The biases the media has are much bigger than conservative or liberal. They're about getting ratings, about making money, about doing stories that are easy to cover.
Al Franken, "Lies and the Lying Liars who Tell Them", 2003

http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Al_Franken/