Memo Says Prisoner Was Waterboarded 183 Times

[sabra]

Source: NYTimes

Waterboarding, the near-drowning technique that top Obama administration officials have described as illegal torture, was used by C.I.A. interrogators 183 times on one prisoner from Al Qaeda and 83 times on another, according to a 2005 Justice Department legal memorandum.

The release of the numbers is likely to become part of the debate about the morality and efficacy of interrogation methods that the Bush administration Justice Department declared legal even though the United States had historically treated them as torture.

A former C.I.A. officer, John Kiriakou, told ABC News and other news organizations in 2007 that the first prisoner questioned in the C.I.A.’s secret overseas detention program in 2002, Abu Zubaydah, had undergone waterboarding for only 35 seconds before agreeing to tell everything he knew.

But the May 30, 2005 memo, quoting a 2004 investigation by the C.I.A. inspector general, says C.I.A. officers used the waterboard at least 83 times during August 2002 against Abu Zubaydah.

During March 2003, the memo says, the waterboard was used 183 times against Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the confessed planner of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/world/20detain.html?ref=global-home

[bigworld]

1. which tells you that perhaps it didn;t work???

[primavera]

5. On both ends of the spectrum

If someone volunteers to tell all after 30 seconds, how certain can you be of what he chooses to tell you? On the flip side, if someone can endure the process 182 times without cracking, what on earth would lead you to imagine that he will crack on the 183rd time? Sadistic idiots.

[ACTION BASTARD]

7. He's not white, right? So!

Which is what a Republican would say to his fellow white power, death cult members.

[primavera]

17. Lol!

"White power death cult members," I love it! May I borrow that one sometime?

[MadMaddie]

16. Not only that but if it was 183 times in a month

every day this guy was out of the field in Iraq the information he had became less accurate. The people he worked with would have changed their plans or strategy once they knew he was in US hands.

That's kind of obvious....that's why if they waterboarded him 183 times they were enjoying doing the torture...there was no value add by the end.

They have to be prosecuted.

[primavera]

18. Good point

What do these interrogators imagine, that everyone's going to just sit around patiently waiting to get renditioned? :eyes:

[saigon68]

2. Proud to be an American

From the lakes of Minnesota
To the hills of Tennessee
Across the plains of Texas
From sea to shinning sea
From Detroit down to Houston
From New York to L. A.
There's a pride in every American heart
And it's time we stand and say

And I'm proud to be an American
Where at least I know I'm free.
And I won't forget the men who died
Who gave that right to me.
And I gladly stand up next to you
And defend her still today.
Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land.
God bless the U. S. A.

[nxylas]

3. So, did they find the location of that ticking bomb in time for Jack Bauer to save us?

I guess the fact that we haven't been blown up is proof that torture works, eventually. :sarcasm:

[Psephos]

4. At least he's still alive, unlike those who died jumping or burning at Ground Zero

And no, I don't support torture and never will. Even KSM isn't enough to make me change my mind.

That said, he is an evil motherfucker and needs to stay locked where not a lot of sun shines until Allah calls him home.

[cosmicone]

21. The very fact that he was tortured

means he will now go free for lack of evidence because anything obtained from him will be excluded. Even the ones arrested or charged because of what was learned from KSM will go free.

This whole thing was utterly stupid.

[MadMaddie]

23. Keeping him locked up in isolation would be one thing

but they tortured him and the torture that was used was the same torture that the Hauge prosecuted and hung Japanese military members for.

It's not being soft of criminals to lock them away and throw away the key.

[yardwork]

26. Except that we don't know for sure if he is an evil motherfucker or someone falsely accused

and we'll never know now.

And the fact that he was tortured in violation of international law - not to mention human decency - probably guarantees more terrorist attacks sometime in our country's future.

Fail all the way around.

[Psephos]

29. sorry, you had a typo there

"Except that *I* don't know for sure if he is an evil motherfucker or someone falsely accused and *I*'ll never know now."

fixed that for you :)

[tomm2thumbs]

6. it would have worked on the 200th time - they just didn't have the will - lazy interrogators

I don't like to do things I ENJOY 183 times - imagine being tortured repeatedly by a country who expounds that they do not torture literally near-drowning you over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.

There's what 183 looks like - imagine what it feels like.

[defendandprotect]

8. Constitution says . . . NO CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT ...!!!

[bloomington-lib]

9. When it's that guy...come on.

I don't support torture. Not only because it doesn't work, it's inhumane, and there's a large chance that they are innocent and don't deserve it, but it's this guy. If I had a wife, child, friend die because of that guy, I would wonder why they stopped at 183. If he really is the mastermind then fuck him. He knew what he was getting into. Anybody here knows if your were to do something like this you'd be in a hell of a lot of shit. He obviously didn't care about the consequences

[yardwork]

27. and we know that he was the mastermind because....he was tortured?

In the United States we have a constitution that says people are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. What trial did he get? What evidence was presented? Something he said while being tortured?

[tomm2thumbs]

10. yeah, 'that guy' sort of like 'those Japanese people' - WWII. America shouldn't torture. Period.

All of this, even now, is making our troops MORE of a joyous, easy target for radicals, MORE of a recruitment tool for their organizations, MORE of a reason to undermine and target this country of ours on every level by corrupting major governments around the world who have the means to do even MORE harm.

Anger does not win the day- smarts wins the day. We we have a smart President and I'm going to let that play out.

[bloomington-lib]

11. I'm not saying anger justifys torture

For this guy it's going to happen. After the military stops doing whatever they're doing to him there will be prison guards and maybe other prisoners making his life rough for the rest of his existence.

When your talking about Japanese Americans you're talking about innocent people. Even if you're not innocent you shouldn't be subjected to US sponsored torture. Sometimes people are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe some people don't really have a choice other than to fight Americans. This guy was at the top and he had a choice. What's happening to him is what happens when you kill 3000 innocent people. It just is, whether is legal or not no matter where you're at in the world.

[DallasNE]

12. That Averages Out To A Waterboarding Every 4 Hours

Over the course of a month! That is insane. And, I presume, there were other forms of torture going on at the same time as the waterboarding. It makes one wonder. How many times was KSM waterboarded after he went bat sh_t crazy?

Was there no supervision of events at Gitmo? Oh, never mind.

We have an international Red Cross for a reason. We need them for oversight. The criminal element can never again be allowed to take over government operations in this country. This is a matter to be addressed at The Hague.

[paulrevere1]

13. Mr. Kucinich: Issue Bill Of Impeachment Against Barack H. Obama

Well Dennis,

Now that Rahm Emanuel has unequivocally stated there will be no support for prosecution of Bush Crime Gang Torturers, Kidnappers and Murderers, it's pretty clear what they meant all along by the slogan "Change We Can Believe In"

Translation: A new load of bullshit sprinkled with some cheap perfume. That's the only change we're getting.

Since you seem to be one, if not the only, person with integrity in the US Congress, it looks like it's up to you again.

Please introduce a Bill Of Impeachment against Barack H. Obama for the crime of Obstruction Of Justice and Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice.

Otherwise, there's only one conclusion that can be arrived at regarding the pathetic and lamentable state of affairs in which we find ourselves: America is now nothing but a chapter in history...nothing else.

[Psephos]

20. there seems to be a troll beneath yonder bridge n/t

[defendandprotect]

14. Because near killing him 3 or 4 X didn't prove anything . .. 180 more X was necessary--!!!

[MadMaddie]

15. Mengela redux....Who were the Drs and Psychologist that stood

by and said this was okay? They must be prosecuted....

[Javaman]

19. and the 182 times before didn't work?

yet the 183rd time they got the information?

evil fucking bastards hell bent on fulfilling some sort of twisted sadistic masturbatory dream.

[Supersedeas]

28. surely the Federal Circuit Court Judge with a lifetime appointment can explain how effective

the 180 plus prior attempts must have been....under oath....in public hearings

[KamaAina]

22. Isn't there a point of diminishing returns after 150 or so?

:eyes:

[ohio2007]

24. Obama: CIA's 'best days yet to come'

Chicago Tribune

Posted April 20, 2009 4:30 PM
by Mark Silva

While banning the most controversial interrogation practices employed by the CIA in the past, President Barack Obama is calling on the agency to renew its mission under new marching orders.

Calling the CIA "an indispensable tool, the tip of the spear'' in America's national security, Obama personally addressed employees of the agency today standing before a marble wall with 89 stars marking, anonymously, agents who have died in the line of duty.

"I believe that the CIA's best days are yet to come,'' Obama told his audience. "We live in dangerous times. I am going to need you more than ever....We want to send a new message to the world... We're going to have to operate smarter and more effectively than ever.''
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3840322#3840358



http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/04/obama_cias_best_days_yet_to_co.html


I'm guessing that means

Prisoner Was Waterboarded 183 Times

records are going to be broken.


Wonder what a hockey mom and her 'old boss' would have said if elected.

?

Same things as the 'new boss' ?

[Zhade]

25. And yet Obama is willing to let torturers walk.

NT!