Consumers start feeling higher costs of clean fuel

[steven johnson]

Source: USA Today

Consumers already are starting to feel at least a modest pinch in their electric bills...

In Oregon, Portland General Electric is seeking a 2.3% rate increase to raise the annual $41.3 million needed to fund construction of a big wind farm.

In Texas, the prices Austin Energy pays for wind power more than doubled recently. The reasons: strict state renewable quotas that drive up demand and high costs to deliver wind energy from West Texas, says General Manager Roger Duncan. Customer charges could rise next year, he says.

California has among the highest electric rates, partly because it requires 20% clean energy by 2010, Makovich says. And with the most accessible green power tapped, Southern California Edison is spending $2 billion to build lines to deliver wind energy from remote areas, says utility executive Pedro Pizarro. It's also developing expensive solar power.


Read more: http://m.usatoday.com/Money/274907/full/

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This was always the problem with green energy -- it was more expensive.

[AndyTiedye]

1. California Electric Rates Are High Mostly Because We Got ENRONed

[Howzit]

2. Ironically, ENRON promoted green regulations

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=enron+cap+and+trade&aq=0&oq=enron+cap+a

[tomm2thumbs]

3. when Oil costs are reflected in the Iraq war, Kuwait, etc - it is WAAY cheaper

they just aren't charging for that at the pumps, but we pay nonetheless - and big time

[northernlights]

6. exactly

Add the trillion dollars spent on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (and before that Vietnam ), and oil and gas cost considerably more than $2.00/gallon, or even $4.00/gallon. :(

[roody]

4. Good time to solarize.

Due to not enough rainfall, my electric bill is always negative thanks to 9 solar panels.

[Arcana]

5. Why does green energy have to be more expensive?

Is this some conspiracy here?

[northernlights]

7. yes and no

It's not truly more expensive. It's just that the oil barons, the political class and the media conspire to keep the true cost of oil a secret. See posts above -- the true cost of oil includes *all* the costs involved in getting it. That would mean, these days, our trillion dollar wars.

If half that trillion dollars had been spent investing in green energy, we'd be in far, far better shape today on every front.

[Psephos]

12. trillion dollar wars in the era of two trillion dollar annual deficits

the war took six years to spend a trillion

right now the govt is spending a trillion every three and a half months - and "paying" for it by borrowing and/or printing money

where are the trillion-dollar green investments?

[comtec]

8. Making a combustion engine is cheaper than making a solar panel

or a windmill.

Sad but this is just true.
The amount of technology and calculations to make a solar panel are HUGE!
The amount of time and energy to create a basic internal combustion engine, a proven technology for over 100 years, is not.
At the most basic you have a 2-stroke engine, where one cylinder is up, and the other is down at any one moment.
This design is in any text book, and the fuel can be made from plant oil - very cheap indeed.

Wind is less complicated as solar, by many factors, and creating a wind generator only requires you to find a WHOLE lotta wire and a couple natural magnets as your initial ingredients. While rotor technology can make this a increasingly complicated task (how many windings to create X watts (potential) per revolution, etc) it can still be done by a high school student, thus making wind, MORE expensive than ICE, initially, but far LESS in the long run.

The disadvantage to wind is, of course, you are completely at mother nature's mercy.

Hydro is similar to Wind, but even MORE expensive, as it requires making a device that can survive almost indefinitely basically in the water, BUT the probability of constant rotations (thus power) is FAR higher, and the cost rapidly outweighs the costs. Finding an appropriate water source being you major issue at that point.

Hydro can also be made by HS students in a less-dangerous river setting in a semester - and also will provide decent amounts of constant energy.

Solar is by far the most superior of course, it relies on the Sun fr it's energy conversion.
However the technology, and materials required to make a solar panel are very high.
The solar generation system (PV cells i mean at this moment) are weather resistant, since Ultra Violet beams through most cloud cover and in climate weather - however they are delicate and do not like hurricanes, and tornadoes.

the Sodium to power system, while FAR simpler is no less complex, as the mirrors need to be kept absolutely CLEAR, to maximize solar heat reflection on to a tower containing solid sodium, that when heated liquidized, causing the cooling water to vaporise into steam, which in turn turns a generator - must like how nuclear energy is created - it's all steam punk really.

The advantage to this system is that the Sodium retains it's heat to vaporise water far into the night thus allowing not-quite constant generation of power. This by far is actually the CLEANEST form of solar generation as all the materials are non-toxic and found relatively close up in the Earths crust.

HOWEVER... these all require a fair amount of scratch, and the amount of power that they generate is very dependent on mother nature and the sun's desire to cooperate.

Only fuel-based energy production is the most fool-proof. It only depends on the fuel you dump into it and the yield is well known.
It is also the dirtiest.

As a people, we all need to use LESS, so that the cleaner - and yes more expensive initially - energy production tools can be used to maximum efficiency. IMHO, wind, hydro, and Sodium-solar solutions are the best. They run almost 24-7, and generate ZERO pollution in their operation, and do not contribute (greatly) toxic materials in their production.

I like PV solar, but the materials needed are toxic, and the manufacture of PV panels is expensive.

That said, a PV cell will last a decade or longer, and it's not very hard to create a solar water heater (20 dollars in materials from the hardware store in 98)

I would love to see high schools teaching alternative energy fabrication.
As I said it would not be difficult for EVERY school to create at least 1 of each clean (as mentioned above) energy solution every year. They can combine the Electronics class (which I was in), the Wood shop class, the metal shop class, the Auto shop class (in a pinch alternators make excellent generators, and there are delicate mechanics involved with creating efficient turbines).

In addition there is no reason that this can not create Electric autos that run on said generated power.

I know I'm being seriously optimistic, but this kind of Educational setup would not only energize (no pun intended) the interest in alternate energy systems, but it would also teach a trade.

Anyway, that is why Alternative energy solutions cost more.

[Optical.Catalyst]

9. Part of the price of present energy use is borrowed from tomorrow's environment

Every ton of CO2 we spew into the atmosphere is going to cost us at a later date. We can pay now, or we can pay later.

President Obama's proposed Cap and Trade of Carbon Pollution will will ignite the transition to clean energy, end our dependence on dirty fossil fuels, and put America on a path toward economic recovery.

Dumping tons and tons of Carbon Pollution is having a dramatic effect on global weather patterns today, and it will only get worse in the future. People who are aware of the situation know we are in a crisis. We are crossing the line into the region of positive feedback loops where the warming of the Earth will increase the rate of warming of the Earth.

The climate crisis can’t wait.

[Javaman]

10. Ah but here is the difference...

I have wind power in my Austin home. BUT, the rate is locked in for 15 years.

I did this early last year before prices skyrocketed.

Now, even though prices are low, they will go up again, certainly within the next 15 years and my rate will remain the same.

And I fully expect that by the time my contract expires in 15 years, the price of wind power will have come down due to more wind mills coming on line.

[bemildred]

11. You have to pay more for quality.

And dirty energy is expensive in other ways. It may not show up on your electric bill, but it shows up in your air and food, in strip mines, in the cost of re-painting your house.

[Winterblues]

13. If it costs more to establish something and then the rates plummet

Would you still say it cost more? You are comparing apples and oranges. Solar power or wind power is cheap, dirt cheap. It is the initial instalations that cost. Anytime there is upgrades done on a power grid or equipment rates go up until the expense is met. That doesn't mean energy costs are higher.. It means upgrading is expensive but once the upgrades are made then costs stay fixed or go down.