Court skeptical about school strip-search

[bemildred]

Source: Chicago Tribune

WASHINGTON-- The Supreme Court gave a skeptical hearing Tuesday to lawyers for a woman, then 13, who was strip-searched in school on suspicion that she had extra strength ibuprofen in her underwear.

Instead, most of the justices voiced concern about drugs such as heroin and crack cocaine, and said they were wary of limiting the authority of officials to search students for any drugs.

"How is a school administrator supposed to know?" asked Chief Justice John Roberts Jr. "He sees a white pill and doesn't know if it is something terribly harmful, even deadly, or if it's prescription strength ibuprofen."

In the case before the court, a vice principal at an Arizona middle school told a nurse and an aide to take Savana Redding to an office and to search her and her underwear to see if she was hiding the pills. She had nothing to hide, and she and her mother sued the Safford school officials for subjecting her to an "unreasonable search." She won last year before the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, which ruled the humiliating strip search of an 8th grader was unreasonable and unconstitutional and said school officials who ordered the search are liable for damages.

Read more: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-strip-search_wrsapr22,0,4652436.story

---

So kids, like terrorists, have no rights.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. This is disgusting

To me it sounds as if they are saying guilty unless proven innocent.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

24. We had a case of a HS student refuse a search because she was molested by the nurse on a prior time

That raised a major ruckus. Schools are required to report ANY such accusation and suspend the accused. Police got called, lawsuits threatened, race cards played, a real mess. In the end the nurse never returned and the student was transferred out to the district alternative school. No charges against anyone. The staff quite doing body searches, no one wanted that kind of accusation.

[BlooInBloo]

2. Fucking filthy old men. You don't get to look at little girls' vajayjays. Freaks.

[Matariki]

14. This case isn't about a puerile sexual interest in a 13 year old.

She was searched by the female school nurse.

It's about fourth amendment protection against unreasonable searches and seizure.

[Downwinder]

21. It's about child abuse

and abuse of authority.

[izquierdista]

3. I see a black robe

and I don't know if it is something terrible, even a Nazi, or just a stupid tool.

[norepubsin08]

29. Just some perverted old fucker

getting his jollies off on having a 13 year old girl strip searched!

[northernlights]

4. what a disgrace

They strike me as a bunch of dirty old men who want ownership of all little girl's and young women's bodies. Disgusting. :puke:

[Odin2005]

5. Apologists for child molestors. Words fail me...

I fear for my 10yo niece. :cry:

[tomm2thumbs]

6. look at the bright spot - she's gonna be rich and famous!!

'sarcasm'

[elleng]

7. GUYs, listen to or read the oral argument transcript.

Agree with their decisions or not, please notice that they are very careful and thoughtful in their decision-making.

[Odin2005]

10. "careful and thoughtful" defense of child molestors more like it.

:cry:

[elleng]

13. LISTEN TO THE ORAL ARGUMENT,

and don't spread flame all around.

[Egnever]

52. This place has become pretty inept at looking past the headline

Not everyone of course but getting people to look at the details behind the headlines is getting harder every day.

[Matariki]

16. Where do you get 'child molestors' out of this?

It's not like a male teacher or principal searched her.

It's a Fourth Amendment issue - and for that reason an important case. IMO, the school was very wrong and violated her CIVIL rights - not a sexual violation.

[Odin2005]

17. Because this would give an excuse for sicko school administrators to diddle kids.

On NPR this morning the young lady's lawyer stated that she experienced emotional trauma equivalent to sexual assault.

[Matariki]

18. Of course her lawyer said that. You have an over active imagination.

Are you saying the school nurse 'diddled' her?

Or that this case would be a precedent for would be 'diddlers' in the future?

[Odin2005]

20. 1. The girl was clearly traumatized. 2. Yes, this would set a precident that the pervs will love.

[ninety lives]

39. I guess women can't feel violated

I love all of the posts here that ridicule the student for feeling violated.

Some people have empathy impairment.

[Odin2005]

41. It's frankly disturbing.

Jeez, it's claimed that people with Asperger's Syndrome like myself have "problems with Empathy" yet it seems to me like it's the other way around. :banghead:

[LeftyMom]

30. Women and medical practioners can be abusers too.

Trust me on that one.

[Matariki]

33. I'm sure that they can - but I really don't think that's the issue here.

I mean, I don't think the schools motivation was sexual. An abuse of power yes, sexual molestation no.

Calling it that, and arguing that that was the issue takes the focus off the Fourth Amendment / Right to Privacy issue.

[Odin2005]

38. Sexual assult IS about power.

[Egnever]

53. oy vey

this was not a sexual assault. No matter what her lawyer likens it to in interviews.

[ninety lives]

40. No one is saying it was sexual molestation

They are saying that the victim would feel assaulted and violated by the behavior.

[ninety lives]

36. Child abusers don't have to be male

When I was in school, I was in a few situations like this. I am female.

Some people use strip searches as an opportunity to abuse or express power.

Legally, her civil rights were violated. That does not mean that the student didn't feel sexually violated by the search.

This kind of argument assumes the victim has no perspective and no feelings. I find it disturbing.

[ninety lives]

37. There are many documented instances

Of women in institutions such as schools or prisons abusing other women.

Are you saying that it is only "sexual" if it is a man doing it to a woman?

[mikelgb]

46. lesbians can't be school nurses?

not trying to say that all lesbians would be sexually attracted to a kid but to say the gender matters, and implying that if a male nurse would have conducted it it would have automatically been worse is just ignorant

I agree that no sexual assault should be assumed but in our society where nekkid = bad, dirty etc... you can't blame the girl for feeling like that.

Just don't assume a female can't assault a female and vice versa.

[Posteritatis]

54. If their decision is that the search was okay, they are neither careful nor thoughtful. (nt)

[geomon666]

8. Crack and heroin don't come in convenient little pills.

These guys are judges? Jesus.

[AngryAmish]

35. oxycontin does

That said I don't think schools should strip search.

[jberryhill]

44. And a school nurse can identify any commercial pill by consulting the PDR /nt

[surrealAmerican]

47. Not only that, but in this case ...

... nobody SAW any pills. Some other kid said there were pills, but she didn't have any.

[alarimer]

49. The kid accusing her lied.

In my opinion, lying about someone to get them in trouble is worse than possessing a few aspirin would have been. Yet the little shit suffered no punishment that I know of for lying.

[geomon666]

9. dupe n/t

[Jefferson23]

11. If this doesn't go 5 to 4 in the girls favor, there may be more people

inclined to home-school. There is such a loss of rights to zero tolerance, the public schools are tragically led by their fear of litigation and it could leave a hideous mark for all children.

[Odin2005]

19. If my 10yo neice gets strip-searched the adminstrator will get a boot up his ass.

[Dappleganger]

26. Quite possibly.

Parents want to know their children will be safe and that their basic rights are upheld.

[Sivafae]

48. I absolutely agree with sentiment. However...

The parent also has a right to know that their child is going to be strip searched. Safety of the child should be the utmost concern in such matters.

If the supreme court decided earlier that police cannot search people that have been accused by someone that they are holding contraband, then schools should not have that right either. IIRC the reason the girl was searched was because of someone else's accusation. Especially since minors do not have the where with all to give full consent to the search, only the parents have that right.

[Orangepeel]

12. "He sees a white pill and doesn't know if it is something terribly harmful"

And looking in her underwear would answer that question?

[bemildred]

15. White pills in her underwear are more likely to be terribly harmful.

Everyone knows that. That's where I put all my terribly harmful stuff.

[struggle4progress]

23. Roberts is a lying shithead: the original search was based on an uncorroborated tip that

the girl possessed prescription-strength ibuprofen. No administrator saw any little white pills in this case, and Roberts knows it; from the very beginning, the (unsupported) allegation against the student was simply that she possessed ibuprofen -- and when the thugs strip-searched her, they didn't even find that

[tammywammy]

31. But considering the implications this case will have on schools across the country

The Justices must think of not just this girl and her particular incident, but where they strip-searched a student and did find drugs.

[JonLP24]

43. I'd much rather the student use the drugs rather then being strip searched

I believe it is more damaging psychologically to be strip searched as a young child by pretty much strangers then to get 1-15(15 or more if meth) hours of intoxication. I understand you're reasoning but I find it highly inappropriate for young students to be strip searched by school administrators.

[HopeHoops]

34. That's correct.

They knew what they were looking for and that "prescription-strength" was reported as "twice over the counter" which would put it at 400mg - two of the little brown pills you can buy anywhere.

[TheWraith]

22. Okay--that vice principal, the aide, and the nurse, all need to be banned from state employment.

Forever. And also prosecuted.

[malletgirl02]

25. Not suprised

As we heard from the Harmon case the powerful care if it happens to them.

[djp2]

27. Quite common in Airport security..

for children to be strip searched without their parents present..
www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/childabuse.html

In USA also, but couldn't find link in quick search..

[Jefferson23]

28. Watch the Video and Share Your Message of Support

When Savana Redding was just 13 years old, she was strip-searched for allegedly possessing prescription-strength ibuprofen. This traumatizing search was based solely on the false and uncorroborated accusation of a classmate who was caught with similar pills.

Savana's case was argued before the Supreme Court by ACLU attorneys seeking to protect the privacy of all students -- and make it clear that such conduct has no place in America's schools

link to ACLU website and video.

https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=Nat_SupportSavana_Video&s_src=email_042109&JServSessionIdr010=1bx9r5owp1.app26a

[rcrush]

32. Kids in school have never had rights.

At least they didnt when I was in high school. We were locked in the courtyard with gates on all exits during school hours. Had its own police department. Drug dogs. They would search lockers every couple of weeks. YOu had to have a see through back pack. If someone accused you of something you were automatically guilty.

[Jefferson23]

42. The naked truth about strip searches in school: Opinion.

Ensuring school safety is important, but the Supreme Court must uphold students' rights.
By Sara Libby

from the April 21, 2009 edition

Los Angeles - For many 13-year-old girls, being featured – even fleetingly – on a national news program might be exciting. Not for me. My image flickered across the screen only briefly on "Dateline NBC" – it was during one of my basketball games, and it showed all of my awkward teenage glory.

The context, however, made the whole thing more embarrassing than exhilarating: The program was all about how a group of my female classmates had been strip-searched after a gym class when several students reported some makeup, cash, and CDs missing. "Dateline" producers had filmed several of our team's games to use as B-roll while the anchor discussed the case.

Though I wasn't one of the girls in the class forced to remove their clothing to prove they weren't hiding the stolen items, I still look back at the episode – which for a time nearly ripped our community apart – with anger and a sense of betrayal.

Soon after the ordeal took place, I overheard my parents and grandparents discussing it, saying they didn't think the administrators and police officers who orchestrated the search were wrong. I fled the house in tears, aghast that my own family thought it would have been OK for me to have been made to undergo a humiliating act in front of a group of strange adults.

The incident at my school was not the first, nor the last in which young kids were made to strip as a result of school administrators bent on proving their "zero tolerance" for crime.

remainder here: http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0421/p09s02-coop.html

[AnneD]

45. Leave it to that prick Scalia....

to ask about a cavity search:eyes: I bet Clarence couldn't wait for a bathroom break. The thought of all those young girls in there underware must have been too much......


Edited to add. I am a school nurse. There are instances where I have had to check children for bruises. They were never stripped down and I always had some one with me. I may have had to peek into their clothes and underware to see the marks but I was extremely careful and never went beyond what I could see by opening the waistband. I talked to the kids the whole time and tried to help them maintain their dignity as much as possible. I would point blank refuse to strip search or aid in the strip search of a child. If it is that serious-a parent needs to be there and more paperwork should be required (ie the court kind of paperwork). I didn't let a Doc examine my young daughter without being in the room and I'll be damned if some school offical do the same. It is the most brutal of all invasions of privacy and I'll be damed if it happens on my watch.

[happyslug]

55. The comment from Scalia is interesting, it was is response to the Schools Attorney

From the Article:

Based on that report, "he was entitled to search any place where contraband might reasonably be found," said Matthew Wright, the district's lawyer.

What about a "body cavity search?" asked Justice Antonin Scalia.

That does NOT sound like someone who is pervert but someone asking where the line should be drawn when it comes to Searches of Students. The School's position was then paraphrased in the Article "Wright replied that no school official would undertake such a search, but he insisted it would be legal." i.e the SCHOOL SAYS CAVITY SEARCHES ARE OK. Scalia may be a social conservative but his comments sounds like someone looking for a bright line to draw on when a school can search, and NOT happy with the idea of Cavity Searches by School Officials.

Scary thought, Scalia and Thomas going with Ginsburg saying any body search (with the exceptions of pockets) is to excessive, but lesser searches permitted.

No comment on Stevens, But like Scalia and Thomas (Who also made no comments, but he generally votes with Scalia) but I see him liking the idea of a bright line short of Cavity Searches.

Roberts, Bryer and Kennedy sounds like he would permit the Search as "reasonable" for students change clothes in School for Gym. Souter seems to agree with this position, (Again from the Article) The year before a middle-school student became violently ill after taking mysterious pills at school. The official may have feared a repeat. "The thought process in the principle's mind is: Better embarrassment than the risk of violent sickness and death"

That leaves Alito, who may be the swing vote, he wants it left up to a jury if this was excessive, something the School would view as a defeat for it will subject them to a Civil Rights Trial.

Remember this is a dismissal BEFORE trial, i.e. Civil Rights action filed, but dismissed by a Federal Magistrate on the Grounds that the action of the School was within their duties of being public School operators, and thus must be dismissed. For this reason, given Scalia's comments. this case may be 5-4, Scalia, Thomas, Stevens, Ginsberg and Alito on the grounds that the level of action by the School is a Factual issue and must be decided by a Jury (i.e. go to Court). Roberts, Bryer, Kennedy and Souter dissenting on the grounds that any search, even a cavity search for drugs, is reasonable to secure the safety of the School and the Students.

[Muttocracy]

61. thanks for that. nt

[Blue_Tires]

50. sort of tangental: kids in this lawsuit were allegedly strip searched also

by a bus driver, no less...

http://norfolk.va.mycitytalk.us/article.cfm?articleID=22621

[Barrett808]

51. Strip searches for all!

Strip searches should be a daily requirement for all employees and students.

You want to win the War on Drugs don't you?

[depakid]

56. Prediction: 5-4 against the girl

Part and parcel to the cowardly nature of all too many Americans- so afraid of their own shadows that they'd subject their own kids to this (and other insane zero rolernace policies) in vain attempts to assuage their fears.

[happyslug]

57. I see 5-4 for the Girl, Scalia's comments on Cavity Searches is deafening

See my prior Comments for details on the 5-4 split:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3842853&mesg_id=3844846

[depakid]

58. We'll see- this was my original prediction based on previous school search and seizure cases

See my earlier post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3797413&mesg_id=3797413

[Muttocracy]

59. "Justice Ginsburg, the court's only female justice bristled, her eyes flashing with anger."

In Nina Totenberg's report yesterday

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103334943

[bemildred]

60. I hope she let's them have it. Right in the chops. nt

[prayin4rain]

62. Absolutely pathetic, completely unreasonable.

[harun]

63. If administratos suspect something is hidden in the childs clothes

they should call the parents to come in and check.