Kerry: Detainee Photos Could Be Terrorist Propaganda, But Truth Is Important

[BlueJessamine]

Source: The Huffington Post

Senate foreign relations committee chairman John Kerry said on Friday that he was concerned the release of photos depicting the abusive treatment of detainees in U.S. custody could become "propaganda tool" for terrorist organizations.

In an interview with the Huffington Post, the Massachusetts Democrat was asked to respond to news that the Department of Defense would be releasing 44 photos pertaining to the harsh handling of detainees at prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"I think showing the truth is always important," said Kerry. "But I do think it will be used as a propaganda tool and have some damaging impact. But this didn't happen under Obama, it happened under Bush and every one understands that."

Kerry stressed in the interview that this was not a decision made by the Obama administration. "They are not releasing them because they want to, but because there was a FOIA request and a judge is ordering them released," he said.


Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/24/kerry-detainee-photos-cou_n_191113.html

[midnight]

1. Sen. Kerry I have lot's of respect for you, but this argument is

a little too late. The damage has been done. We have created thousands of dead innocent people, created more orphans than I can account for, and destroyed our reputation beyond anything I recognise. American citizens who are against this war can't talk privately in this country-all data is being collected ect..... If it is being used as propaganda, not much can be done to hide the horror that has happened on your watch. The world was watching and they have their own data.

[blm]

5. He's pre-empting the argument by stating it, not arguing its merit. He sides with TRUTH and openness

of government and always has. No lawmaker in modern history has a better record than Kerry on opening up government and its hidden actions to the people.

[lsewpershad]

6. Yes

All this happened on his watch after the now infamous authorization and of course we must never, never, never, forget all the innocent Iraqi and American lives taken and or destroyed as a result. So senator, no more excuses. Besides, no one in their right mind believes that the whole world is not aware of what went on over there.

[karynnj]

15. Senator Kerry spoke against rushing to war

Bush had said that war would be a last resort - those are words that have meaning. Kerry has long ago said that he was wrong to vote for the authorization trusting that it would be used as promised. He also said what others didn't, that the war was immoral (at Take Back America 2006). Even in 2004, he was tacitly saying that when he daily said it was not a "war of Last Resort". I had wondered then if that was intended and in 2006's Pepperdine College speech on faith, Kerry explicitly spoke of the Catholic theology on just war. (http://www.pepperdine.edu/pr/releases/2006/september/kerry.htm )

What you ignore is that there were 5 months between the authorization and the start of the war. In those 5 months the inspectors returned for the first time since 1998 and they found nothing. While some spoke of the impending war in neutral (HRC) or positive (Edwards) terms, Kerry gave a speech at Georgetown University on January 23, concluding with a plea no to rush to war. This led David Frum, a former Bush speechwriter, to single out Kerry (along with France and Germany) in an op-ed where he argued that the Bush administration had been very slow to go to war. His vote was wrong, but as he said thousands of time "wrong war" and not a war of last resort.

But whatever blame Kerry has for his vote, he has NONE for the acts of torture, many of which were not even related to Iraq. Most people at Git-mo were captured in Afghanistan and many of the people the CIA captured had nothing to do with Iraq. Even in Iraq, the decision to torture is beyond deciding to go to war.

[YvonneCa]

10. The horror happened on George Bush's watch...

...and he is the one responsible. As to the world...sometimes I think the people of the world understand more about John Kerry's work on issues of foreign policy than some in this country do.

[karynnj]

12. Kerry spoke against the torture starting as soon as it became known in 2003

He demanded Rumsfeld resign over it - and later in the day Dean joined him that call. Kerry risked even having a political career at all by speaking against such things happening in the Vietnam War. Kerry spoke of the MCA of 2006 (aka the torture bill) saying on the floor of the Senate "this bill allows torture." He spoke VERY often saying the "US does not torture period". He was saying this even as he ran for President in 2004 and much more often in 2006 when he prepared to run again. No one was more unambiguous or stronger on this - not any of his 2004 opponents, Obama, Edwards, and certainly not Clinton, who told the NY Daily News that there were situations where to save the US, she would. (I waited for Obama to echo Kerry's line in Kerry's 2008 convention speech on torture - but until he was elected, Obama did not say the same thing. The important thing is that he said it as President making it policy.)

Where do you get off arguing that this was "on his watch". If there is one man I am 100% positive would not approve torture, it is Kerry. He has been 100% consistent on this.

[sweettater]

2. Maybe I am alittle dense

but I thought the ACLU were the ones behind these memos being released. So why is Pres. Obama taking the heat for it? Just wondering.

[karynnj]

16. Because the RW wants to use their release against the popular Obama

They are playing political games.

This is likely why after the first comment, Kerry made exactly that point.

[ninety lives]

20. Is that all these people do is play games?

You would think they have no ideas of substance at all.

No wonder their party is in trouble.

[marshall]

3. Give me Liberty or Give me Death!

Sometimes doing the right thing hurts us, but that shouldn't stop us from doing the right thing.

[MisterP]

4. "Rush is totally right, but there should be other views, too"

I hate these sorts of backhanded concessions: like Inouye telling Ollie North in 1987 that his actions were atrocious, being ALMOST as bad as the Machiavellian, end-justifies-means Commies'!!!

[karynnj]

17. Where is this quote from?

It's not in the OP - it is rather strange to make up a quote and then say that you don't like this type of comment that no one said

[Alcibiades]

7. Let's be clear: the damage is caused by the acts

not the photos of the acts being made public. So many want to blame Obama or the courts or somebody for making these photos public, but what is really reprehensible is the acts depicted, and these same people think the folks who perpetrated these atrocities chould GO FREE! :banghead:

[napoleon_in_rags]

8. EXACTLY. When REALITY is enemy propaganda, you're doing something wrong. nt

The enemy should actually have to MAKE their own propaganda, not have it occur naturally.

[rgbecker]

9. You are so right!|

Get those pictures out there and let's hear Cheney explain how wonderful it is to torture people and then explain why he never stood up for the GI's doing what he wanted.

[saigon68]

34. 5 Deferments Dick belongs in this

[No Elephants]

11. I think Kerry is simply trying to underscore that Obama is not

responsible, either for the torture or for releasing the photos of the torture. Both those things are true.

[ohio2007]

13. What he is only saying is the obvious.

a 'surge' in violence will be happening on Obama's watch but.......

But this didn't happen under Obama, it happened under Bush and every one understands that."

The shit will hit the fan as this most welcomming "recruiting tool" will be handed to the sectarian haters .

But they won't blame Barack

[tabasco]

21. You supported Bush's illegal war, the surge, secret torture, etc.

I don't know why you are here.

Revealing the truth will show the world we are serious about fixing the problems.

Hiding the truth would tell them to expect more of the same.

You have been wrong about everything and you are wrong again.

[ohio2007]

23. Those of you who want to join the Taliban -- by all means, please do!! I

tabasco
tabasco

oh yeah,



I'm sure you will enjoy their ban on music and oppression of women
but why?
Tabasco defended the Mumbai attack claiming it was a 'cry wolf' story.I remember your rant about the Indian security chief who was quoted in the paper about "possible" security threats in early november.
You said he was PAID to make those statements.

Am I right?
I suppose Tabasco will defend the Taliban when Hillary pushes back into Swat valley .

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6168940.ece

Guess this thread is as good as any to save to proove your point eh ? lol

[karynnj]

28. This is not about finding the truth - Kerry first words spoke of the need to do that

I doubt any poster here supported Bush's war, the surge and secret torture.

There is a difference between getting accountability and the truth out and making inflamatory photos available on the web worldwide. They will be used against us and really do not reveal any more of what was done. So, the lack of enthusiasm on releasing them is understandable. The Abu Ghraib photos became iconic and they did create anger beyond that of the descriptions.

Consider that in horrific crimes, the jury may be shown photos, but they would never place those photos on the web for everyone. The descriptions suffice for everyone else. Do you credit others with so little imagination that they need film or photos to get the horror of waterboarding someone hundreds of time - or even once? Do you need pictures of people being sexually abused or humiliated? I know that I don't.

It is very possible to adamantly want the truth out and even consequences for those who approved these policies and possibly the people who did them, and to wish those pictures not be public. (Note I am not saying this is either Kerry's or Obama's position.)

[Tim01]

14. Oh they most definitely will be used as a rallying cry for terrorists.

These photos will be used to recruit people and convince people who were not into terrorism before the the release of the photos. There won't be any talk of "change". Just injustice and revenge. Proof of the evil Americans and justification of a religious war against them.
Prosecuting people publically would help to calm things down. Releasing theses photos will get people on both sides killed and will make things worse.

[No Elephants]

18. The terrorists already know what went on. Countries to which there was rendition are in

the Middle East. Abu Ghraib in in the Middle East. The detainees released from Gitmo went home to the Middle East.

Whatever hit the fan there hit the fan long before release of those photos.

Additionally, there was a court order directing release of the photos. Do you want the rule of law or not? You can't have it only sometimes.

Also, photos of what went on in Abu Ghraib were released during Rumsfeld's watch. Are you saying those photos went over the heads of those who recruit terrorists, but only the photos released now are dangerous to us?

Besides, some photos of mistreatment of some prisoners will do NOTHING next to what we have done to the Iraqis. Over a million refugees. God knows how many dead--we never even bothered to count Iraq casualties at first, only our own (and we fudged those numbers).

And then, there's our Mideast policy in general, which caussed terrorist recruitment long before 911, let alone before these pictures were released.

See also Post # 7.


Sorry, but that post of yours seems more appropriate for FREEP than for DU. And not only because it attempts to pin future terrorism against Americans on Obama, much as Cheney and Limbaugh try to do.

[Tim01]

26. You honestly think torture pics won't make mid east people furious?

Of course it will. A lot of them will want revenge. A lot of people will become sympathizers who were not before the pics. More money for terrorists, more recruits, more intel, more help.

Do you remember the pics of the american contractors dead bodies being dragged through the streets and burned, hanged from that bridge? A lot of americans came to the conclusion that the people over there are animals. Those pics changed peoples minds about who we were dealing with.

This time we will be the animals. And mid east people will be the ones looking for revenge, you can count on that. I won't be able to blame them much.

I don't know exactly how many people will die, but there will definitely be dead Americans as a direct result of the release of the pics.

This is one of the reasons the military tells its people not to torture people or desecrate the dead, it pisses off the enemy and they come looking for revenge.


How about a published list from President Obama released to the public of things that will not be tolerated under his watch starting right this instant, with a promise of immediate prosecution for violators? That would have to do with what is going on right now under his watch.

[EFerrari]

19. Do you seriously believe that the families of people we have tortured

don't know?

[Tim01]

25. I think the terrorists intentionally go after uneducated, easily led young men.

An educated muslim doesn't have much interest in terrorism. The kind of people the terrorists recruit are the same kind of people as white supremacists recruit. Educated people don't buy into such bullshit. These are remote regions without TV in every house.
If a terrorist recruiter shows up at a village with a hand full of photos of arabs being tortured, and tells the young poor uneducated guy that Americans have declared holy war on Islam, he will probably believe it.
Same as if you take a poor uneducated American hillbilly and tell him how the blacks taking over the country and how the bible says blacks are not really human.
The pics will also be very helpful in convincing the average mid east citizen that Americans are just basically just bad.

[EFerrari]

27. Weren't most of the 9/11 hijackers students or professionals?

Whatever. Yes, the photos will be used for propaganda but the thing is, its Americans that don't know about this, not Iraqis or Afghans or Pakistanis. They knew before we did. The women prisoners at Abu Ghraib broke the torture story, remember? They smuggled letters out to their families to come and kill them because they were being raped.

[karynnj]

29. Of course they know

Do you think the men at ABu Ghraib who were sexually humiliated and were in that set of photos wanted the photos released worldwide?

I sgree that the photos legally had to be released. I also think they will be inflammatory and the problem is that these things ever happened.

[EFerrari]

31. I expect some effort to be made to conceal identities of the victims. n/t

[karynnj]

32. I hope so - I didn't look at the Abu Ghraib ones any more than I could

avoid it, so I don't know if the people would be recognizable to their friends and family.

[Malikshah]

22. Torture is a rallying cry. Double standards are a rallying cry. Kerry-- get your head out of your

ass and realize that.

[ohio2007]

24. the surge in violence is already under way

maybe going back to a point a couple weeks ago

dunno
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3840322&mesg_id=3840322
maybe not
but at least the "tera ists" can only afford to reach out and blow up those closest to them.

0.liveleak.com/u/thumbs/2009/Apr/26/4ce85a6d_thumb2.jpg
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e2f_1240742181

BTW
Doesn't matter who, what color or what name "the boss" in the US is.

They still hate us.

Peace in our time did not return after Jan 20th.

move on

[karynnj]

30. The same thing could be said to you

Senator Kerry has been as strong, clear and unambiguous as any politician that it is wrong to torture - and he has been since Abu Ghraib. (Kerry's comments that the US should not torture ever was 100% non-ambiguous.) In fact, he risked ever having a political career speaking out on this on Vietnam - and he didn't do it anonymously on the internet.

Where is the double standard? The first words he said were that it was important to get the truth out.

[Malikshah]

33. Using the warning that it could be dangerous -- the same argument used by those who

are against investigation is counter productive when the statement is not immediately followed by the statement that in the end torture is the single largest propaganda tool that can be used.

Kerry can be as strong as he wants when it comes to speaking out, but when it is coupled by counterproductive statements it simply proves the point that he just is not strong enough in his condemnation.

Equivocating on torture and the move to condemn it in all quarters of our country with a single voice is a political move, pure an simple.

[Inuca]

35. It's not a warning, it's a statement of fact

and as such I think his head is exactly where it is supposed to be

[karynnj]

36. He is absolutely not equivocating on torture

Kerry was clearly answering a question about potential consequences of releasing the photos. It was part of a longer foreign policy interview per the article. It would be stupid and a lie for him to say that the photos would not have a negative impact. They will, because the propaganda value of a photo far exceeds a memo that allows the procedure depicted - even though the memo is more damning showing it is official policy. In addition, the photos will not expand what we know beyond the memos, for most it will not make torture more real. (To me the descriptions were chilling. I do not need a photo to be completely disgusted and appalled.

In my area, there was a horrific murder of a 16 year old girl a few years ago. This year, the newspapers wrote of some really gory details, but obviously did not publish the photos they described as having been shown at trial. Just as with that, I think the description of what the memos said was legal and the descriptions of what happened gets to the truth more than the photos do and like in the case of the trial, the photos could be available just to those who are "trying" the case. For history, they could be made available after a passage of years when they can't lead to additional American deaths. This would be my preference, but it is not the law and neither Obama or Kerry are fighting the release of the photos.

Even in this quote, Kerry first says getting to the truth is important - then concedes that there will be "some" damage. He then immediately makes the case Obama and other Americans will make to try to limit that damage - that it is no longer the practice and that it was Bush who did this. To deny the cost of releasing the photos would be intellectually dishonest.

How would you answer this question? Could these pictures lead to increased violence and anger towards the US? That is the likely question asked.