Autism research: Scientists find genetic variations linked to autism

[AngryAmish]

Source: Chicago Tribune

"Researchers have found that many people with autism share common genetic variations, a discovery that may improve diagnosis and offers the promise of developing treatments for the frustratingly mysterious disorder.

Their findings, published in the journal Nature, compared the genomes of thousands of autistic people to those of thousands of people without the disorder--a massive task that new technology has only recently made possible. The genome is the complex system of DNA coding that builds and runs the human body.

The review showed that most autistic people have a genetic variation in a portion of their DNA that affects the way brain cells connect with one another. Scientists also reported a link between autism and small "mistakes" in another DNA segment involved with cell communication.

Both reports add weight to the idea that autism is related to problems with the way brain cells connect."

Read more: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-090428autism-genes-journal-nature,0,3886580.story

---

cue anti-vax nutters in 3...2...1...

[Warpy]

1. More and more it's being shown to be a congenital problem

meaning it's present at birth.

Sadly, antivaxers are true believers who are utterly impervious to fact and will continue to confuse coincidence with cause.

[aquart]

22. So we've always had one autistic birth in 150 live births?

You'd think we would have heard more about it, known family members with it....LOTS of them.

[Warpy]

24. Did you know any post that begins with "So...?"

is guaranteed to contain a straw man? That one certainly did.

Congenital means PRESENT AT BIRTH. That's all it means.

Whether or not there's a viral or chemically caused mutation happening somewhere along the line is a very, very big guess right now.

We just know it's not the vaccines, kids.

[pnwmom]

55. In Hannah Poling's case, the vaccine triggered her underlying

genetically based mitochondrial disorder, and resulted in her autism symptoms. She won't turn out to be the only one.

SO we cannot rule out vaccines in every case.

[Warpy]

84. Given the extremely rare nature of her condition

we certainly can't rule them in, either.

Her condition would likely have been triggered by the diseases, themselves, had she survived them.

[pnwmom]

92. Her condition isn't that "extremely rare." And most autism experts now think

that a combination of various genetic conditions AND environmental factors may cause autism -- that there isn't one cause, but perhaps hundreds of causes.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1721109,00.html

Experts on autism spectrum disorders believe that most cases are caused by a combination of genetic vulnerabilities and environmental factors. There may be hundreds of roads to autism, involving numerous combinations of genes and external factors.

Could thimerosal or some other aspect of vaccines be one of these factors? "It's always possible that there's a small subset of kids that have this vulnerability," says Dr. Isaac Pessah, director of the Center for Children's Environmental Health and Disease Prevention at the University of California, Davis. Pessah's lab is looking at dozens of possible environmental factors, including pesticides, plastics and flame-retardants. "This is a very emotional debate," he says, "and we need more research directed at these questions."

_____________

More RESEARCH is needed. That's the bottom line.

[JerseygirlCT]

52. Well, if this goes for people all over the spectrum

I'd guess it's quite possible to miss people who are high-functioning. They might just seem a little odd, or different - nothing might have been noticed absent lots of news about autism.

And it wasn't too long ago that people who *weren't* functioning well would have been treated as embarrassments to be hidden away and not talked about, you know?

[pnwmom]

56. I saw the difference over the 15 years my three children were in elementary school.

And their teachers did, too.

From no children in a first grade class with autism, to several. (And these weren't children whose symptoms would be missed or dismissed as "odd.")

[LeftishBrit]

75. I don't know about America; but in the UK there's been a huge move during the last 15-20 years...

to include children with disabilities in mainstream schools. I get the impression it's the same in many countries. So that children who would formerly have been in special schools are now in mainstream schools.

[LeftishBrit]

62. Probably we heard about lots of such people...

only they were called 'mentally retarded', 'psychotic' or 'emotionally disturbed', depending on severity and symptoms.

[Demeter]

69. the Clinical Term Was "Childhood Schizophrenia" Fifty years Ago

and institutionalization and the accompanying brutality was the standard practice.

[pnwmom]

54. Genes that are connected with autism may turn out to predispose a person

to the disorder, rather than inevitably cause it. The tendency or the predisposition or possibility may be what is present at birth -- and autism may or may not develop later.

[sakabatou]

2. I'm worried that my kids will have autism

Since I have a form of it on the spectrum.

[cornermouse]

60. A couple of things.

We didn't have any autistic spectrum or any other disabilities in my rather large family till my kids and there are more disabilities out there than autism if you want to worry about it.

If you want kids go for it and, based on my own experience, if you already have them and they're past 2 or 3 years old, which is when my kids started behaving abnormally (contrary to the OP's personal opinion that they start at birth), without any abnormal behavior you're probably in good shape.

[No Elephants]

66. I'm sorry that you and your family are dealing with this condition.

[sakabatou]

83. I don't have kids yet

But I'll keep watch when I do.

[madrchsod]

3. real science!

real research!


no one selling a miracle cure!


hundreds of quacks are looking for another scam!


my wife deals with autistic mentally disabled adults.....

[winter999]

4. But don't you know that the same government black-ops that

conducted 9/11 also created the MMR vaccine!

:hide: :rofl:

*duck and laugh*

Sorry, couldn't resist. Resistance is futile.

[pnwmom]

5. "Cue anti-vax nutters"? So are you one of the vax-to-the-max crowd?

I believe in responsible vaccination programs, myself, with vaccinations limited to those vaccines that are the most NECESSARY, rather than the most promoted (i.e., the HPV vaccine) or most available.

Autism will probably turn out to be one of the many disorders that are caused by an INTERACTION of genetic and environmental factors, the environmental factors including a number of "stressors" and/or "triggers," including vaccines.

Hannah Poling, with her mitochondrial disorder, was the first child to be identified with a genetic disorder that interacted with vaccine exposure to produce her autism symptoms. There will be more. That's why doctors at Harvard and elsewhere have called for more research into the question of which children are biologically more susceptible to harm from particular vaccines.

[winter999]

10. According to the article, itself, none of your

assertions are valid.

[pnwmom]

13. delete

[pnwmom]

16. Nothing in the article conflicts with anything I said.

According to the article, what they have found relates to "many" but not all cases of autism.

The first of two Nature studies released today found that 65 percent of autistic participants shared a variation between cadherin 10 and cadherin 9, a region of the genome that controls cell-adhesion molecules in the brain. Those molecules help brain cells connect, and autism researchers have long suspected that trouble there may be linked to the disorder.

"If we could remove this variant from the population, just take it away ... as much as 25 percent of autism would disappear, which is highly significant," Hakonarson said.

The article also specifically mentions environmental triggers as a possible factor in the development of autism.

"The reports also do not explain the rising numbers of diagnosed cases of autism. That increase may be occurring because of heightened awareness of the disorder, because the definition of autism has expanded or because of some environmental factor. It may be some combination these factors or something else entirely."

[Kittycat]

32. I don't understand why you're so certain there is zero link?

It's very likely that one or a combination of the vaccines given before a certain age (or at all) could be a trigger for an underlying genetic disorder that can cause autism. We didn't see such a dramatic spike, until the mass compounding of vaxs were required. Sorry, but while I agree with vaccinations, I think there needs to be some common sense in their distribution. There is nothing wrong with delaying or excluding specific vax's, or stretching out their dose regimine. And I think it's criminal that drs are pumping things in to our children like guinee pigs with no testing whatsoever. Such as my own child who found himself in the hospital for respiratory distress and failure, due to an allergic reaction to the flu shot. Wow - a child allergic to eggs who might also be allergic to a drug developed in an egg? Who would have thought (morons). But this is the reality of prick first, worry about the fall-out later.

If we know things like this occur - there should be more precaution in the distribution. That's all. And immediately writing anyone off that doesn't think guinee pigs = children, is also foolish. Unless you're open to letting the always ethical Pharma companies use you to test their next drug.

[No Elephants]

64. Please point out a statement in the article that contradicts something she posted.

[xchrom]

6. recommend

[xchrom]

7. recommend

[Oregone]

8. But why, if its genetic? Why the increase in incidence?

Maybe its just an increase in diagnosis.

But anyway, gene frequencies among populations normally remain at constant levels. Is the environment still a factor? Do these variation create susceptibility to a new environmental factor?

[pnwmom]

9. Exactly. Autism is probably like many other disorders -- caused by a

combination of genetic and environmental factors.

Many genetic disorders -- my gluten intolerance, for example -- lie dormant until they are triggered by a "stressor." Autism could well turn out to be in that category -- it could also turn out to be caused by various combinations of genes (rather than a single gene or set of genes), that interact with different stressors to produce the symptoms.

[Demeter]

44. Since autism Is Characterized By Brain Development Abnormalities

which can be detected by MRI in living victims, or by autopsy of the brain after death, it is not going to be "triggered". It is going to be masked by one's compensating abilities and the degree to which one is trained or protected from danger, to be revealed as the tasks society expects one to do exceed one's reach.

The amount of abuse and neglect one receives from ignorant caregivers will make autism worse.

[pnwmom]

53. Brain development continues into adulthood and it can be affected by

environmental factors. There is no reason that a neurological condition like autism couldn't be caused by an interaction of genes and the environment -- and the vaccine court has already recognized such a case in Hannah Poling.

Celiac disease, to give another example, is characterized by abnormalities in the digestive tract. Individuals have the predisposing genes, which may or MAY NOT ever be triggered by a "stressor," including an illness, pregnancy, surgery, etc.

And this study, even if it is borne out by other work, does not apply to ALL individuals with autism disorders.

[Demeter]

59. It is not the cerebral cortext that exhibits developmental differences

It is the small, interior portions of the primative brain, the amygdala and other such regions, those first formed in utero and not subject to development after birth.

It really helps if your argument is based on factual information. Spreading unsubstantiated pop misconceptions about autism do not help the families afflicted, like mine.

[No Elephants]

68. I am sorry that you and your family are dealing with this.

[pnwmom]

82. I am sorry about what you and other families are going through.

But the family I'm close to with an autistic child has a different opinion on the possible connection of autism with vaccines than you do. And so does Hannah Poling's family.

[No Elephants]

63. Isn't it possible that an environmental factor may trigger a change in one or both parents that

shows up only in the offspring? Or that An environmental factor may trigger something in utero? Or that an environment factor may trigger something in the newborn, etc.?

If scientists who have been studying this for years still don't know much for certain, don't you think it questionable that some DU'ers are so certain?

[Demeter]

67. The Parents of the Autistic Are Not Vicitms of Agent Orange or Radiation

They are not exposed to pesticides or other genetically-transforming agents that permanently alter the gene pool for all generations thereafter.

There are scientists who know with reasonable certainty that if there were such environmental factors, they would have spotted them already. Such factors stick out like sore thumbs.

[No Elephants]

70. Diseases that run in families tend to stick out as well, though. The best that can be said

so far is that scientists don't know. Therefore, neither do we.

[Demeter]

74. Well, Yes, Our Autism Is Running In the Family

it's called the Shadow Syndrome, and there's a book about it by that title.

[happyslug]

91. And those Scientist tend to list Mercury as the cause

People with Autism act like people with known mercury poisoning. The big question has been HOW Mercury is getting into the victims. The amount of Mercury in Vaccines used to be very minimal (and even these minimal amounts have been eliminated in recent years). No DIRECT connections have been found between the Vaccines with Mercury and Autism, the studies have show no collations between Vaccine with Mercury and Autism, but that does NOT eliminate Mercury as the cause.

One intriguing theory involves the switch from Bituminous coal to Ligate coal starting in the 1980s. Bituminous coal ash has the property of absorbing Mercury, while Ligate coal releases Mercury. The main reason for the switch between the two types of coal is that Electrical generation plants that burn ligate, do NOT produce as much Sulfur (and thus acid rain) as Bituminous coal if scrubbers are NOT installed to remove the Sulfur that is the base for Acid Rain. On the other hand if Scrubbers are installed, Bituminous coal is preferred for it burns hotter.

Coal and Autism:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3160332&mesg_id=3160662

Previous thread on Autism and Mercury:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=250x3297#3356

Maps of US Coal Fields:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3410974#3411157

[AngryAmish]

12. As a side note, I disagree that gene frequency remains the same among populations

We (humans that is) are evolving real fast. Not as fast as viruses but faster than you know.

Genes that would have served you well even 500 years ago have not been passed down much in modern societies. Natural selection, evolution and all that stuff.

[Oregone]

14. Well, yes, other than evolution, this largly is a rule...

Evolution is actually defined as a change in gene frequency over time.

But there is a major increase in 50 years if this is genetic, and well, thats damn rapid.

[AngryAmish]

26. You are right

THere has been a major increase in the last 50 years...but 50 years ago many of these kids with autism would have been called retarded or other such nonsense and shipped off to a state insane asylum or worse.

But it does seem to be increasing and we don't know why, other than vaccines do not cause autism.

[Oregone]

36. Well, we still actually do not *know* that...

"But it does seem to be increasing and we don't know why, other than vaccines do not cause autism."

Vaccines (or anything) can still possibly be a triggering factor, that works in tandem with these gene variations. Just because a theoretical mechanism (thimerosal) did not seem to be linked according to some, doesn't mean there isn't another mechanism or way there could be a problem.

I just don't know. Im not sure why people want to rule anything out yet though. There needs to be more research on all different angles, not less.

[No Elephants]

65. I don't know how you can make that statement. credibly. You don't know

that a single autistic child was "shipped off" fifty years ago and I don't either. Posting something that you assume does not make it true.

[No Elephants]

71. I had not heard that we were evolving that quickly. If true, how interesting.

[Ian David]

17. It could also be that something pre-natal is preventing autistic children from miscarrying.

Perhaps, without the standard vitamins you get with pregnancy, autistic babies would have died in the womb.

It could also be that autism spectrum genes also code for "nerd skills," and now that "nerds" are congregating in places like Silicon Valley, they're finding each other and having babies together more often.

Could be lots of things.

Could be a virus that was frozen in the ice caps that thawed with a wooly mammoth.

[Oregone]

19. those are some interesting ideas...

Nerd genes...eh? :)

The people I know with autistic children aren't nerds though. Were just average in school...very social otherwise. Anecdotal.

[Ian David]

21. Anecdotal, of course. And a very controversial theory at best.

The one with the wooly mammoth I made up myself.

Because I've got an anti-mammoth vaccine, and the lawyer suing National Geographic for causing autism by thawing wooly mammoths is funding my research.

But here's the link to the "nerd theory" guy, FWIW.

I don't give it much credence, but it makes more sense than The Magical Vaccine Theory.

Not that this is saying much.


From the Medical Journal, "Wired":

The Geek Syndrome

Autism - and its milder cousin Asperger's syndrome - is surging among the children of Silicon Valley. Are math-and-tech genes to blame?

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html

[kestrel91316]

11. This is impossible. Autism is caused by vaccinations.

:evilgrin:

[Oregone]

15. Maybe...

Maybe this genetic variation is responsible for an auto-immune response triggered by vaccinations (an immune response that attacks neural connections).

Just a theory, ya know. One Ive heard a bit.

[Ian David]

18. Considering that the liar who started the anti-vax movement has been exposed as a fraud...

... who was trying to promote his OWN vaccine, I think we can safely stop looking to vaccines as even a contributing factor.

[Oregone]

20. This doesn't mean its a dead end...

Just an avenue that a fraud first explored for profit.

If it is a genetic susceptibility to an environmental factor, we should look high and low to find that factor.

[Ian David]

23. In the meantime, people should either vaccinate their children or drown them. n/t

[semillama]

25. !

:o

:spray:

:rofl:

[xchrom]

27. ...

:spray: oh now you've gone and done it!

[Oregone]

28. Not vaccinating = murder?

[Ian David]

29. Fuck yeah. Not vaccinating your children murders those who are too young to be vaccinated.

There is no place in a civil society for those who murder other people's children through their own fear and ignorance, whether they get their superstitions from Jenny McCarthy or Mary Baker Eddy.

Vaccinate your children or drown them.

[Oregone]

30. Thats fucking stupid

It is. You are advocating that a viable and realistic option for parents is murdering their own children. Ive never read anything so stupid on this website.

Maybe its hyperbole. Fucking stupid hyperbole.

[Ian David]

31. Yes, it's hyperbole. But my point is that you do NOT have the right to murder MY children...

... let alone your own.

[Oregone]

33. Still fucking stupid hyperbole

Its easier to say your point though. Unfortunately, due to the efficiency of vaccines at eradicating viruses, more people die of vaccines annually than the viruses they are supposed to stop in the US. So comparing it to murder in the current environment is an ineffective tactic. Just sayin.

[Ian David]

35. The only reason so few people die from those diseases is because people get vaccinated.

Not vaccinating your children, for no good reason, is murder and it is free-loading on the backs of others who are socially responsible to share the risk.

The only reason the unvaccinated children of stupid, selfish people do not die is because the smarter, socially responsible people vaccinate theirs.

[Oregone]

37. Well, yes, I did mention the term "efficiency".

But as it goes, in this current environment of people vaccinating their children as a norm, it becomes statistically more dangerous to do so since the viruses are not widespread. Its just a funny numerical result of the success of the vaccinations (and it negates the murder angle unfortunately).

Yeah, not vaccinating children may be free loading...but, "Not vaccinating your children, for no good reason, is murder" is still fucking stupid hyperbole.

How do you expect to make any headway in an argument without entering it on somewhat civil grounds?

[Ian David]

39. There is no responsible "middle" ground on this issue.

Failure to vaccinate your children is socially irresponsible and recklessly endangers others.

It's like saying you can drive drunk because other drivers probably have the skill to avoid you as you swerve down the highway.

It places you outside the Social Contract.

Period.

Vaccinate your children or leave.

Or (I suppose) drown them.

End of discussion.

You want "civility" then vaccinate. Not vaccinating is not civil, and non-vaccinators deserve no civility.

Period.

[Oregone]

40. Well, you are welcome to drown their children for them

[Ian David]

41. That would be socially irresponsible. Look up "Social Contract" sometime. n/t

[Oregone]

42. When you try and treat people like they are stupid,

And you overuse hyperbole...you just come off really arrogant and stupid yourself.

Look up "stupid" some time.

You drowning their children is as permissible as the parents doing it to their own (in my opinion). Im not sure why you think a parent would have more right to murder their child than you.

[Chemisse]

48. There certainly is a middle ground.

Stick to the important vaccinations for the infants and toddlers and give the less urgent ones a little later. Prioritize. Stop overloading their little immune systems.

[pnwmom]

94. The responsible middle ground is to recognize that while vaccines are

by and large a very good thing, all vaccines are not created equal.

All vaccines are not equally necessary. (Just because a drug company invented it and promoted it doesn't mean it has to be put it on the schedule.)
All vaccines are not equally safe. (The old DPT vaccine caused unnecessary deaths and, after several decades, was finally replaced by a safer one.)

Also, the responsible middle ground is to recognize that the current vaccine schedule is not sacrosanct.

The current vaccine schedule is based on requiring as few visits to the doctor's as possible, rather than based on research as to the effects of combining multiple injections and multiple adjuvants.

Also, the responsible middle ground is to recognize that MORE RESEARCH IS NEEDED. For example, which groups of children may be susceptible to damage from particular vaccines; and improved after-market monitoring of approved vaccines.

[pnwmom]

93. By your reasoning, a DPT vaccination murdered my sister. n/t

[KamaAina]

34. If you mean Andrew Wakefield, he only started his own branch of it

he's the one who claimed to have found particles of measles RNA in the intestines of children given the MMR vaccine. Conveniently for him, he was trying to get a patent on a measles-only vaccine at the time. :eyes:

But he was really piggybacking on the larger movement centered around the mercury-based preservative thimerosal. I'm giving less and less credence to that one, too, which leaves an autoimmune explanation as the most likely for any link to vaccines.

[Oregone]

38. And due to just the concept of an "auto-immune" response...

How can anyone so easily write-off *any* potential foreign trigger without a mountain load of research that doesn't exist? Who the fuck knows anymore?

Everyone wants to walk around like experts about everything. Im an expert at not knowing a damn thing.

[Pale Blue Dot]

43. A "mountain load of reasearch" DOES exist.

There are numerous (and growing) well-done studies that show that there is no link between autism and vaccines. The one study that showed a link was Wakefield's, which has since been completely discredited for the reasons cited above.

Add to that the fact that thimerisol was taken out of vaccines in 2001 and there has been no decrease in the number of cases of autism, and you're left with absolutely no valid scientific reason to link vaccines and autism. None. You might as well say that the Easter Bunny may cause autism and and that you won't write that off without "a mountain load of research that doesn't exist".

[Oregone]

45. Im not talking about thimerosal

I was responding to the mention of the theory about an auto-immune response, triggered by the vaccines. It suggest the body attacks its own brain.

Yes, you might as well say the Easter Bunny caused it, BUT, the increase in incidence (if not associated with increase diagnosis) does not correspond to the increased prevalence of Easter Bunnies at malls.

Really, anything that is somewhat new in the last 50 years, or has substantially increased (or perhaps decreased) is subject for suspicion.

[Chemisse]

49. Thou dosth protest too much

I agree. Why rule anything out?

I think the violent reaction by the scientific community against the slightest suggestion that vaccines are related to autism shows a lack of objectivity at best, a profit motive at worst. It certainly makes me wonder - why the extreme reaction?

[AngryAmish]

79. Why the extreme reaction?

Because humankind does not have the best track record. Wars, famine, repression et al.

The science of vaccination is one of the few things we can point to and say - look, by any reasonable humane standard, this is a good thing. We are saving lives. It is not perfect but overall this is a good thing.

Then we have the anti-vax nutters come along and shit all over it through ignorance, fear and greed.

Lives are lost of the anti-vax lunacy. So a strong reaction is warranted.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AngryAmish]

78. Belize gained it's independence in 1981

Since 1981 diagnoses of autism have skyrocketed.

Your theory of the current vaccine schedule causing autism has the same scientific validity that Belizian (?) independence has caused autism.

[Oregone]

80. Not all children are exposed to Belizian independence

Its not really "my theory", just something I was mentioning that indicates that perhaps we should put any nails in the coffins of idea.

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=autism+as+autoimmune+response

People are theorizing that an auto-immune response can be triggered by anything from viruses, foreign agents, or vaccines. The idea is that something triggers the immune system to attack, and subsequently, damage its own brain.

[pnwmom]

57. To whom are you referring? And are you aware that the reason we have a

vaccine court today, and compensation for vaccine related injuries, is because a group of injured families joined together to fight for safer vaccines and better regulation? They are the ones who started the real campaign for vaccine safety -- not whoever it is that you're referring to.

[mzmolly]

85. Exactlly. Genetics were always

considered a factor. This is not news.

[Thor_MN]

51. No, it's due to increased after dark conceptions

With the increased number of families with two working parents, there are fewer children conceived during "I'm going home for lunch." Just as valid a theory as vaccines and if you consider after-work cocktails, may actually have something going for it.

[KT2000]

46. Genetics loads the gun

environment pulls the trigger

[Pale Blue Dot]

47. I assume that you have scientific proof

to back up such a statement... right?

[KT2000]

58. This is a statement made by

Kenneth Olden,PhD, past editor of Environmental Health Perspectives, a publication of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, which is a branch of the National Institutes of Health.
It is a statement that is used broadly to describe many illnesses - not specifically autism.

I encourage you to read the vast body of environmental health literature as it is considered separate from medical research and practice.

[mzmolly]

86. Johns Hopkins has done extensive research on Autism. They have a like position.

http://www.neuro.jhmi.edu/neuroimmunopath/autism.htm

Our Research on Autism

Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder characterized by significant impairments in social, behavioral and communicative functions. Current evidence suggests that neurobiological abnormalities in autism are associated with changes in cytoarchitectural and neuronal organization that may be determined by genetic, environmental, immunological and toxic factors. Neuropathological studies have shown that cytoarchitectural organizational abnormalities of the cerebral cortex, cerebellum and other subcortical structures as well as a reduction in the number of cortical minicolumns appear to be the most prominent morphological changes in autism.

[KT2000]

90. Thank you for that link

I believe that the greatest challenge to understanding many of our current illnesses will be making the link between environmental triggers and genetics.
As in the case of Gulf War Syndrome the investigators look to toxicological research to rule out environmental factors and then claim there is no evidence to support cause, when the mechanism is actually "triggering" of genetic predisposition. This catch-22 has been used to deny compensation for vets for 20 years.

Bernadette Healey MD past director of CDC also takes the position that we look for the triggers, which was not done on vaccine research.

[JonLP24]

95. why is that hard to believe?

In fact it quickly and accurately describes the factors of what I learned about alcohol and drug addiction as well.

[Pale Blue Dot]

97. But is there real, scientific proof?

What we believe doesn't matter; what's provable, repeatable and rigorous does.

With science, you can't make assumptions. You have to prove it. Any time that science has analyzed these claims, it's come up negative. This is why I asked the poster for scientific proof - and as yet, none has been provided.

[JonLP24]

98. It's not an assumption, it's an analogy

For example alot of what comes down to alcohol and drug abuse is genetics, such as your parents were users or other close relatives. Now throw in environmental factors such as being around people that use the stuff. For example when you're recovering alcoholic for the most part it's easy to stay off if you're aren't around it but say you live in Army barracks and people drink every weekend it's pretty hard to stay off of it. Now my research is classrooms, textbooks, and videos so I don't have a link and I'm not going to do the research for you. The evidence is there, it's up to you to find it.

[cornermouse]

61. This post is little more than an attack on parents of autistic children.

In lieu of a picketing smilie pretend I'm standing here with a "I protest" or "He's full of it" sign.

[Lilith Velkor]

76. How so?

My mother was greatly relieved at seeing evidence that it's genetic, and not something she did.

[LeftishBrit]

81. How come? It provides evidence, if this were still needed, that autism is NOT due to parental

mishandling.

In the 60s and 70s, attacking parents of autistic children was all the rage - especially the mothers, of course. The nastiest influential person in the field was probably Bruno Bettelheim, who thought it was all due to rejecting mothers, and prescribed 'parentectomy' and institutional treatment. The genetic theories were resented by some psychiatrists, precisely because they removed blame from the parents.

[PA Democrat]

72. Hardly a conclusive study. Read the article:

"One of the studies released Tuesday found that 65 percent of autistic participants shared a genetic variation between cadherin 10 and cadherin 9, a region of the genome that controls cell-adhesion molecules in the brain. The figure for study participants without autism was 60 percent -- a statistically notable difference."

So why do some people who have this genetic variation develop autism while others do not? Are there other genes involved? Is it a combination of gentics and environment? What about the people with autism who do NOT have this genetic variation?

[mzmolly]

88. A combination of genetics and the environment is thought to be a

factor, yes. See my reply with a statement from Johns Hopkins below.

:hi:

[No Elephants]

73. This thread deteriorated fast.

[goclark]

77. I am a retired educator

I started my career in the early 60's and worked until 2001.

I can not recall seeing symptoms of children with Autism until the 80's.

I was an administrator at a school in the midwest from 1990 - 2001.
That is when I noticed the massive difference in the student population.

I recall having 1 class of six children in 1995 and by 2001 the population of Autism related students had doubled + a little!


The 1st time that I recall hearing a parent talking about it was in the early 90's. She was a chemist and she said that she believed that it was from the chemicals in "Sweet and Low" and the amount of women drinking Diet sodas etc. to watch their weight.

She also believed that Autism was higher in the middle class and upper class because "the parents,especially Moms were very concerned about their weight."

Have they found any connection to her thoughts?

It was extremely difficult for the parents and the teachers were working so hard to improve the lives of the children and their families.

I pray for a cure.

[mzmolly]

87. Johns Hopkins ~ Current evidence suggests

http://www.neuro.jhmi.edu/neuroimmunopath/autism.htm

Our Research on Autism

Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder characterized by significant impairments in social, behavioral and communicative functions. Current evidence suggests that neurobiological abnormalities in autism are associated with changes in cytoarchitectural and neuronal organization that may be determined by genetic, environmental, immunological and toxic factors. Neuropathological studies have shown that cytoarchitectural organizational abnormalities of the cerebral cortex, cerebellum and other subcortical structures as well as a reduction in the number of cortical minicolumns appear to be the most prominent morphological changes in autism.

I'm glad they're finding out more about the specifics.

[Freddie Stubbs]

89. Will Dr. Jennifer Ann McCarthy refute this study?

:shrug:

[pnwmom]

96. The lead researcher cites the interaction of many genes with the ENVIRONMENT

as the probable cause of autism. Nothing in his work rules out environmental factors-- including vaccines -- in the development of specific cases of autism.

In other words, it doesn't have to be an EITHER/OR situation. Depending on the person, the cause may be purely genetic, purely environmental -- or, in the large majority of cases -- a combination of both.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8020837.stm

SNIP

Lead researcher Dr Hakon Hakonarson said the genetics of ASD was likely to be complex. He said: "Because other autism researchers have made intriguing suggestions that autism arises from abnormal connections among brain cells during early development, it is very compelling to find evidence that mutations in genes involved in brain interconnections increase a child's risk of autism."

But he added: "There are going to be many genes involved in causing autism. In most cases, it's likely that each gene contributes a small amount of risk, and interacts with other genes and environmental factors to trigger the onset of disease."

Similar findings were reported in separate studies published in Annals of Human Genetics and Molecular Psychiatry.

Professor Simon Baron-Cohen, an autism expert at the University of Cambridge, said 133 genes had now been linked to the condition, and much work was needed to piece together how they interacted with each other and the environment.

SNIP

[mzmolly]

99. Absolutely right!

:hi:

[pnwmom]

100. It is useful to read the whole article cited in an OP like this

because the vaccine researchers themselves tend to be of a more balanced perspective. I can't remember EVER seeing one of them predict that autism will prove to be caused by genetic factors alone.