Seizure of US government bonds from two Japanese men in Italy raises questions

[Poll_Blind]

Source: AsiaNews.it

Milan (AsiaNews) – There have been new developments with regards to the story of US$ 134.5 billion in US government bonds seized by Italy’s financial police at Ponte Chiasso on the Italian-Swiss border, which AsiaNews reported four days ago. News about it initially made it to the front page of many Italian papers, but not of the international press. Since yesterday though, some reports have published by English-language news agencies. And some commentators are starting to link the story to reports in US press dating back to 30 March.

On that date the US Treasury Department announced that it had about US$ 134.5 billion left in its financial-rescue fund, the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), whose purpose is to purchase assets and equity to buttress companies in trouble. The existence of such means that the Obama administration may not have to go to Congress for additional funds, something which is especially important since many lawmakers have vowed to oppose any requests for more money.

At the same time, Japan’s Kyodo news agency has reported that the resignation of Japan’s Interior Minister Kunio Hatoyama might also be related to the Ponte Chiasso affair. Officially the minister quit as a result of a row over who should head the state-owned Japan Post, but some sources have suggested that such a scenario is not very plausible since Mr Hatoyama was Prime Minister Taro Aso’s main ally in his rise to the prime minister’s office, and is especially unconvincing since the ruling coalition government has to face elections in just two weeks time. Indeed there are many reasons to connect the Ponte Chiasso incident to the minister’s resignation.

Read more: http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=15505&size=A

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Ok, they mentioned TARP. I think, according to the drinking game, everybody has to take a shot. I still haven't seen anything indicating that these are fakes. Not only that but in the original Italian news story, it is said that along with the bonds there were a large number of "original bank documents"/"original bank documentation" (depending on the translation) which presumably attempted to describe the pedigree of these bonds.

This is such a wild story no matter how you cut it.

PB

[FarPoint]

1. I sure hope we get to the source

of who sent the couriers, source of the money and what the crimes surround the money.

[Arctic Dave]

2. We may have the making of a international spy/shadow gov. novel.

[kenny blankenship]

3. Hmmm who do we know who launders money in Italy?

http://www.boingboing.net/2006/11/21/berlusconi-used-holl.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/19/silvio-berlusconi-bribe-david-mills
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=7114492
http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Berlusconi+Government+Receives+Backing+Italian+-bJRL59mQnsl.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due

[Lasher]

4. Thanks for the update.

Very interesting. I hope we continue to learn more. But don't be surprised if this suddenly gets buried in the archives for the next 50 years - or some Italian/Japanese/Swiss version of the scenario.

[jimshoes]

5. What could you buy with $134 billion dollars?

:wtf:

[Poll_Blind]

6. If you're dumping U.S. Dollars it's not about what you can buy with it but what you can TRADE it for

Maybe that's mincing words, but the point is that these bonds, if real, were likely to be traded for bonds in some other currency backed by another country, other than the U.S.

Assuredly taking a loss. However, if you had oodles of U.S. Debt (maybe that should be Boodles because we're over 100bln) and you wanted to trade that for something more secure, like the Euro, or just diversify, you could swap those bonds for a whole host of other assets and/or financial instruments backed by a different country's currency.

While there is more speculation than fact at this point (although the facts are purrrrty interesting), it would appear that only 2-3 nations would have enough U.S. bonds to want or need to do this: China and Japan. I forget what the third is but that's the order. You can check at the U.S. Treasury website.

PB

[girl gone mad]

7. If the photo released by the Italian police is legitimate,

these bonds are fakes.

[druidity33]

8. how so? nt.

[Poll_Blind]

9. How can you tell? n/t

PB

[Poll_Blind]

10. VIDEO of some of the bonds being unpacked HERE:

HERE (in DU Videos forum)

PB

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Italian Police Ask SEC to Authenticate Seized U.S. Treasuries

Italy’s financial police said they asked the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission to authenticate U.S. government bonds found in the false bottom of a suitcase carried by two Japanese travelers attempting to cross into Switzerland.

The bonds, with a face value of more than $134 billion, are probably forgeries, Colonel Rodolfo Mecarelli of the Guardia di Finanza in Como, Italy, said today. If the notes are genuine, the pair would be the U.S. government’s fourth-biggest creditor, ahead of the U.K. with $128 billion of U.S. debt and just behind Russia, which is owed $138 billion.

The seized notes include 249 securities with a face value of $500 million each and 10 additional bonds with a value of more than $1 billion, the police force said on its Web site. Such high denominations would not have existed in 1934, the purported issue date of the notes, Mecarelli said. Moreover, the “Kennedy” classification of the bonds doesn’t appear to exist, he said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=afJXAA1ahZyo

[JackRiddler]

12. Kennedy... 1934... rather illuminating.

[Poll_Blind]

13. I can't find the "1934" reference on the site the article lists. Can someone provide a link?

I've been to the Italian site listed but I can't find any mention of the story or, especially, the 1934 reference. I've searched the site in English and Italian. Can someone give the link because the Bloomberg article is the only one which references the Kennedy bonds as being marked "1934".

I've cruised Italian postings of the story about the bonds but I haven't come across anything which noted that they were marked as 1934. I've also read the translated comments (there are quite a lot of people in Italy who are very interested in this story as you might imagine) and couldn't find anything relating to the 1934 allegation.

From my research, I think at the U.S. Treasury dept., there were people in the past who have tried to pass off fake bonds which had glaring inconsistencies which this story alleges. But I can't find any information which describes these particular bonds in that way. In fact, if you do some searching you'll find that in several articles the quality of the printing, stock and engraving are such high quality that it is noted that it may be impossible to tell the difference between these bonds and real bonds, save actually contacting the U.S. Treasury and tracing the paper trail.

Possessing fake financial instruments of this magnitude, especially with "a large amount" of documentation which purports to identify the bonds as genuine is not a trivial matter.

PB

[Joanne98]

14. 500 million dollar bonds were issued from 1955 to 1969

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=114&topic_id=65894&mesg_id=65894

For most of their history after World War II, Treasury notes have been issued with denominations never rising above a high of $1 million. Yet, from 1955 to 1969, the Treasury issued Treasury notes with the added denominations of $100 million and $500 million. The purpose of this study is to determine why the Treasury issued these very-high-denomination Treasury notes and why it stopped doing so.