Obama says police acted 'stupidly' in arrest

[kpete]

Source: Salon

Obama says police acted 'stupidly' in arrest

Jul 22nd, 2009 | WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama says police acted "stupidly" in the arrest of prominent black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr.

Obama says he doesn't know all the facts about the arrest last week in Boston. Gates claims he was arrested in his own home, after showing ID to police who responded to a report of a possible burglary.

But during a prime-time news conference on Wednesday, Obama says blacks and Hispanics are still singled out for arrest disproportionately. The president, the first black man to hold the nation's highest office, says he's a testament to the progress minorities have made. But he says gates' arrest in his own home is a reminder that racism "still haunts us."


Read more: http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/2009/07/22/D99JRFHO0_us_obama_harvard_scholar/

---

Wednesday, July 22, 2009
President Barack Obama Press Conference - July 22, 2009
President Barack Obama Press Conference
July 22, 2009

transcript:
http://moonshinepatriot.blogspot.com/2009/07/president-obama-press-conference-july.html

[Forkboy]

1. And he's right.

[Farzan]

169. Bad Idea

He should have not commented on that case. 1) Did not know all
the acts, 2) DETRACTED FROM THE HEALTHCARE MESSAGE! 

[Trocadero]

174. oh no! Obama is losing the racist vote!

[No Elephants]

259. Unfortunately, racists are not few and far between.

[Obama2012]

284. Who cares if he pisses them off?

They're not going to vote for him.

[bc3000]

369. I support the right to be disorderly in one's own home.

[Obama2012]

379. So do I

[LooseWilly]

177. He was responding to a direct question.

Even in the campaign, he pointed out that a President has to be able to handle the unexpected things that come up, as well as the well coordinated plans to handle things that aren't a surprise. So, he did so.

And he knows Gates, so it sounded like he had a personal interest... which makes it hard to just dismiss something so offensive in the name of on-message discipline.

I think 50 of 54 minutes was probably enough to get his healthcare message across...

[Farzan]

213. Healthcare message

True that he had lots of time to talk healthcare, but what is
being played over and over?  The cop will now be at Fox
nonstop, he will write a book, be a guest at talk radio, have
a show on Fox, and he probably has the professor on tape
calling him a "honkey".

[Ken Burch]

247. The cop would've done all of that anyway.

And he'd have done even MORE of it if he could've been billed as "the cop Barack Obama is scared to stand up to".

No good ever comes of not responding to things like this.

[No Elephants]

263. Thing is, Obama did not restrict his comment to that one cop. And scared has nothing to do with

anything. Of course, the POTUS has no reason to be scared of this cop. Even Gates, a disabled older man alone in his home was not scared of the cop, ffs. Why on earth should the POTUS fear him?

But, saying "Gates is my friend; I don't have the facts; but the Cambridge Police acted stupidly" is not, IMO, wise, temperate or accurate.

[whathehell]

378. I agree...but I'm not sure the fallout will be too big a deal.

[No Elephants]

261. So? A direct question does not mean you have to express an opinion without having the facts. "I

don't know the facts and therefore I cannot comment" is a perfectly acceptable answer. "I don't know the facts, but the Cambridge police acted stupidly" is, IMO, a lesser answer. And I say that as someone who supported Gates persistently on three threads here. Then again, I am not POTUS speaking to the nation and I confined my comment to the one cop involved.

[D23MIURG23]

275. The fact is the charges were dropped in short order.

'Nuff said.

[Forkboy]

178. The truth is never a bad idea.

[bjobotts]

184. Wish Obama would replace the USAs so Don Siegleman would quit getting railroaded by Rove's buddies

[bjobotts]

186. If Siegleman were black (or even republican like Stevens) Would this miscarriage of Justice be stopp

[bjobotts]

188. Even the assistant prosecutor says the prosecutor lied and broke the law-they fired her.

[bjobotts]

193. The USA and judge not just acted stupidly but illegally showing the corruption at the DoJ

[bjobotts]

194. More appropriate question than asking about Gates. What about Siegleman and stolen election.

[No Elephants]

269. Goldfish and media have a memory of three seconds. Actually, that turns out to have been

an urban legend: A goldfish's memory is longer than 3 seconds.

[No Elephants]

272. You're accusing President Obama and AG Holder of being

racist, but only against Democrats? LOL.

[Swagman]

255. I agree..and watching from abroad it's good to see a president responding to yet

another god-awful racist act..no matter how they try to dress it up as something else.

[No Elephants]

264. When you preface your statement with "Gates is my friend; I don't have the facts," you sound

more like you are about to state a biased opinion. And we know about the behavior of one cop in this, not "the Cambridge police." So Obama's statement about the Cambridge Police having acted stupidly was not "the truth."

I agree that the cop should have left once ID showed Gates was the rightful occupant of that home.

"Gates is my friend; and I don't have all the facts. However, from what I do know, I'm having a hard time understanding why this officer did not leave once he had determined that no crime had occurrred." That sounds a lot less like jumping to a biased conclusion on behalf of your friend, and it limits the comment to the one cop who appears to have been at fault, without implicating an entire city's police. That's very powerful coming from a POTUS, and also very unfair.

[saigon68]

380. The Racist Mother Fuckers and the Freepers are out in force

Acting as ignorant as the racist POS Cop I saw on TV

That guy is a real piece of work.

The same kind of Trash that damn near killed Rodney King.

[complain jane]

418. Heh

You say that as if racist mother fuckers and freepers were separate groups of people

[saigon68]

425. My Bad-- they are the same GROUP

[Farzan]

282. And now for something completely different...

To say a doctor looks at prices and says to himself "if I
remove the kids tonsils I make more money" was a very bad
example. Just so callously implying Doctors are that
unethical.
I just thought his whole news conference was way below par. 

[Alameda]

346. well....just maybe that actually is the case in too many cases...

My family had a Dr who was a surgen...oddly enough, he performed surgery on everyone in my family....

[chimpymustgo]

385. Farzan, I agree on both your points. The Prez made at least 2 intemperate statements in the sea of

warmed over healthcare pablum. He was not at the top of his game - not even close.

Welcome to DU

:hi:

[Yupster]

421. I was more stunned by this comment too

and have been surprised it hasn't gotten more play.

[BlooInBloo]

2. It takes a special sort of person to disagree with that.

[Cha]

183. Yeah, and we have some

real special ones around here.

[No Elephants]

265. Please see post 266.

[No Elephants]

266. Please see posts 261 and 264. IMO, Gates is 100% right, but I also think

the President's statement could have been better worded.

[polmaven]

344. It may actually take

the sort of person who knows the facts before speaking.

We have all read Professor Gates side of things. Now lets read Officer Crowley stories. There is a poll at that station as well, in which 85% disagree with the President.

Now, I know you are going to accuse me of being biased against the President because of my avatar, but if you look at my posts over the last (almost) 14 months, you will see otherwise.

I am also going to try to find the official police report, and will post it as well.

Professor Gates is NOT a totally innocent party simply being picked on here.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/20154182/detail.html
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/education/20151798/detail.html

And the Mayor of Cambridge, herself, does not feel that she yet has sufficient information to make that kind of a statement. Do you want to call her a racist as well?

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/20155163/detail.html

OK...I'm going to stop this rant now. Happy reading!

Edited to add a link to the police report:
http://www.bluemassgroup.com/upload/david/gates_incident_report_redacted.pdf

[winter999]

371. You know, if someone takes all these findings and reverses the

races - there would be a strong sentiment here that Gates was the racist. There doesn't seem to be one instance where he was polite or cooperative. One would think that Gates would be grateful to have the police check his property against a reported break-in. I know I'd appreciate it.

And before you all start jumping on my shit, just ask any cop - if they answer a call of an attempted break-in they will always ask for proof of residence for who-ever is in the dwelling, no matter who they are. AND if you read the report closely, you will find that the residence had been previously broken into, so this isn't the first-and-only time.

[Raschel]

3. I'm wondering if this will be the most discussed part of the President's conference.

The birthers/bigots are going to go crazy over this one.

A Black President addressing a discrimination incident and acknowledging profiling.

Yep, they're going to go even more bezerk than they already are.

[RBInMaine]

59. YUP ! All over CNN online. Bad move Barack. FIX IT FAST TOMORROW !!

[deep1]

87. I'm very tired of this defensive of racist police

You know, I have been lurking these boards for a long time but this is actually my first time registering. I am a young black woman and I have noticed something disturbing about these boards....it seems when an issue is of great importance to black people such as with police brutality and racial profiling, you have so many whites (usually white men) defending the perpetrators. I'm very tired of these certain people defending such hateful actions and abuse.

It is like blaming the victim. What is interesting is that no one ever defends hatred against homosexuals on these boards. Never have I seen that on these boards! Attacks against homosexuals are wrong but blatant racial profiling (which many of my black friends who are law abiding citizens have gone through) is ok and justifiable. I'm sick of so many white men (especially from a Democratic and liberal site) being condescending and not understanding the problems of racial profiling in this country, of course they have not gone through it. Try to have some empathy. The problems with this country is that blacks and whites live in this country and do not understand each other. It is very sad.

I expect this crap from Republicans but not from the so called liberals here! Another poster justified racial harassment of black men by saying 'well black men commit a disproportionate amount of crime'.

Sure kind of like saying a woman wearing a short skirt deserves to be raped!

That is garbage that makes me angry and if a hateful statement was made about gays that person would have been BANNED and strung up!

Please stop this nonsense and disrespect

I stand by Obama's direct response. It is pure STUPIDITY. It needs to be called out more. And I am in no way homophobic, I am just drawing parallels of a double standard on these boards. People are more comfortable discussing sexual orientation on this board than race. You can't hide the facts.

[Suji to Seoul]

121. welcome to DU and I could not agree more with you

the badge sniffing of rotten cops (more and more the majority based on news stories) is disgusting.

[EFerrari]

165. This country can't talk about race to save its life and it has to.

Welcome to DU, deep1.

[deep1]

173. Thank you

Thank you Eferrari and Suji. These are my first few posts and I couldn't resist posting here. I get so tired of African American issues being trivialized on these boards. Obama was spot on in his response. Something has to be done, police abuse of the law is going out of control in this country.

[EFerrari]

181. You can tell it's out of control when the populace is so quick to defend

abuse -- because it's normal.

I was very proud of the president tonight, even if "proud" is the wrong word. He was brilliant. :)

[deep1]

197. Very proud

Exactly, I was extremely proud of him. I admire the man and my admiration for him ran deeper tonight. I wish he went for the kill, but you know, you have to be POLITE as a president. It's ok.

I think more blacks should speak up on racial profiling and police abuse as the gays and lesbians are allowed to do without impunity for their own issues on these boards.

We had to lock a very positive thread tonight due to one racist poster trying to flame. I went toe to toe with him, you have to fight those types, you can't back down.

[No Elephants]

281. Please see posts 261 and 264. You and I have been on

enough Gates threads together for you to know that I am 100% on Gates's side in this.

Seems as though I tend to disagree with you only when it comes to down to specific choice of words in a sentence or two. I am glad, however, that he spoke out against profiling.

[firedupdem]

179. Thank You Deep1

It's disturbing and it is clearly bigoted stupidity!

[Prism]

191. *raises eyebrow*

What is interesting is that no one ever defends hatred against homosexuals on these boards.

Heh, you must be new.

That is garbage that makes me angry and if a hateful statement was made about gays that person would have been BANNED and strung up!

Really, really new.

[Name removed]

240. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mtnester]

253. Nice

insinuating that every GLBT member and supporter was part of the KKK (and by association as racists, because that is what the KKK does and is and lives for)

Every avatar with a noose?

IMO, that ought to earn you granite. Oh and I did not see your name posting offense on anything that may have remotely been like that in GLBT. Thanks for painting this GLBT rights supporter with an ugly brush.

Click

[Prism]

271. *shakes head*

You do have to admire a well-timed illustration to your point, though.

It's as if I asked God to send unto us a post that will embrace the spirit of my remarks, and voila.

Lord, mysterious ways, tacos.

[No Elephants]

287. Post 253 by no means illustrates your point.

[Prism]

289. I was referencing #240 n/t

[No Elephants]

295. Your post 271 did not reference any post number and it replied to Post 253.

[Prism]

296. I was being conversational with 253

This is an odd hang-up.

[No Elephants]

297. Understood. I agree witth you about Post 240.

[RandomKoolzip]

276. Wow. What an asshole thing to say. Comparing DU's GLBT community to the KLAN?!

:thumbsdown:

You got a lot of nerve saying that.

[No Elephants]

283. The RW trivializes lynching by applying it to things like SCOTUS confirmation hearings.

Please do not following their example. Lynching is a very brutal and fatal act. The victiim suffers greatly in every possible way, then ceases to live. A post on a message board is not a lynching, period.

[PeaceNikki]

292. Wow...This is one of the sickest things I have read here.

And that is saying a lot.

[Name removed]

298. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[No Elephants]

285. +1 And that is putting it as nicely as possible.

[Cherchez la Femme]

348. Amen to that

[LooseWilly]

196. I couldn't agree and disagree more, at the same time

I'm also surprised as hell by anyone defending the police in this matter. Arresting a man in his home after he's shown id that identifies him as living there is complete cop bullshit. The odds of it happening to a black or brown man are obviously higher (per capita) than the odds of it happening to a white man... which Obama was right to recognize.

Cops, all too often (in 97 out of 99 cases in my personal experience), have a hard time coping with being shown to be idiots. They react poorly, at best... and brutally at worst (I've watched them casually bash the head of a black man in handcuffs against the doorframe of a squadcar while shoving him into the back).

I think you're wrong, though, to think that no one similarly defends hatred against homosexuals on these boards. I've seen people insist that women who were called dykes and had to run into a store and ask that the police be called had overreacted... that being lesbians had nothing to do with it because the men they'd fled from obviously didn't have proof positive that they were in fact lesbians... and that, as a result, they were wrong to claim that it was because they were homosexuals, because it was just men being men...

Near as I can tell though, the "usually white men" that you see defending this crap seem to genuinely see the police as good people. I suspect it is a result of being the people that the police, unconsciously perhaps, learn that they are supposed to be protecting... because they are the ones that are most represented by the power structures that the police represent, and they are the ones that most resemble the image of the "upright citizen" that most enforcers of authority (police) subconsciously consider themselves to be the protectors of. How could they think that the police would ever abuse their authority, when the police never abuse their authority when interacting with them?

And then there are the rest of us... black, brown, half breeds, LGBT... and in many cases even white women (misogyny can't be forgotten)... who know better.

Defending the dumb cops who feel the need to arrest an old man in his home because he had the audacity to insist on his rights is an awful indication of the state of mind of the police (not to mention a sad statement of the lack of consequences that the police face for such abuses).

Trying to suggest that LGBT folk aren't subjected to the same ignorant assertions of victim-blaming is a mistake though. Spend some time in the GLBT forum... it'll become painfully apparent in no time.

[deep1]

205. Wonderful post, Loosewilly,

and I do not want to trivialize the GLBT agenda. I hope it didn't look like that.

I think those that defend the behavior of these cops believe all cops are so honorable. They view the world with rose colored lens. Alot of disgruntled police officers tend to see black and brown people as violent criminals no matter how old, many see us as criminals. Despite the fact that most minorities and people in general are law abiding.

These, may I say, white men, don't have to worry about that since the police do not view them as a monolith like they do with minorities. They become defensive once you argue that point, they just don't know.

What gets me, when these brute police commit these crimes, they do not get anything worse than a slap on the wrist, as if we are disposable trash to them. This problem occurs way too often in this country. Perhaps if these barbaric cops are punished for their crimes, the situation will start to be taken seriously.

[No Elephants]

303. Bigotry is ugly, no matter whether the object of the bigoty is an African American male, a

white male, a gay, a hetero, a woman, a Christian, a Jew or an atheist, even a cop. Unfortunately, you will see all those forms of bigotry on this board.

There are bad--and worse--apples in each of those groups, and there are good ones, too. It all depends on what each person says or does, not what he or she was born. If we evaluate each person as an individual, based on what he or she actually says or does, we'll be fine.

It's when we start labeling groups as though each person in the group was like all the others that we go wrong. And I don't care if the label is positive or negative. Stereotyping is stereotyping. Sometimes, it is unavoidable, but, IMO, it should always be examined closely because it is likelier than not to be false.

[EFerrari]

207. Amen.

[Divine Discontent]

200. May I inform you of something that you are unaware of, so you understand that we deal

with similar things here.

Every four years Gay or GLBT people are thrown under the bus on this site and in the Democratic Party because we're the last of the people that you can legally discriminate against since many states do not let us adopt, the military won't allow us to discuss our partners without being thrown out, and we do not have the same rights as Straight individuals/couples, and by pushing for our rights we "risk" losing the toss-up vote, and comment after comment is levied against Gay people, and there are slanderous Gay "jokes" made on this site every month which should disgust any true liberal. So, please know the comments from the few who's words offend you, often are the same type of person who attack GLBT people on this site. You certainly notice when your characteristics are attacked, so in noticing the issue with racial comments, be assured there's been hundreds of posts over the past 5 years that I alone have seen - who knows how many were removed before I saw them, or when I wasn't on for a few days.

Bigotry doesn't choose just one group to attack...


Also, nearly all of us prefer not to be called "homosexuals", that's the term fundamentalists use in disparaging us in their churches and train their people in saying "homosexual lifestyle", instead of "Gay community" which would humanize us. Just thought I'd inform you that you won't see homosexual too often on here, primarily GLBT to be inclusive with our Lesbian, Bi, and Transgendered friends...

Thanks for reading.

[lexanman]

221. no offense

this is not a LGBT issue right now. No one is attacking you. And I stand for equality and rights for the LGBT community. Your post is great.

You do no service, however, to your cause by screaming "look at me I gay/les/tran/bi" on threads that have nothing to do with the issue.

[Divine Discontent]

243. Bigots doesn't choose one group over another. They attack them all.

She brought up the "homosexual" discussion in her post and I responded politely to her claims with commentary from someone that's been here for years - you are far from welcome to respond to my comment to her directly about her claims that people don't attack Gay people the way she sees others attacked.


Go back to your fucking hole and take your smart-assed comment with you, as you're certainly not an advocate for equal rights with an ignorant response like that when the other person brought up "homosexuals aren't attacked" comment.

[Prism]

288. The perils of invocation

If someone doesn't want a demon in their living room, it'd be a thought to scratch out that summoning circle.

[No Elephants]

299. You seem to be replying to Post 200. Did you notice that Post 200 was replying to Post 87 and

did you read what Post 87 said about gays?

[lexanman]

375. yes I did

and then it turned into a LGBT issue. I wanted the post to focus on the initial racial bias claim. But threads go into different directions too. I'll read more carefully next time.

[TankLV]

395. And thank you for being the poster boy of the moment for anti GBLT bigotry here...

nice...

[lexanman]

403. Im not anti GLBT Im pro GLBT

I believe in equality for all people. This thread got diverted from it's topic. My niece is lesbian, and Im very proud of her, so you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about or with whom

[ProudDad]

222. Welcome

:hi:

Until this crap is out in the open, until the still rampant racism of USAmerican (and "Western") society is exposed and voices constantly raised against it, it ain't gonna really change.

This is STILL the SYSTEM we live in...the cops are there first and foremost to protect the (mostly white) rich from the rest of us.

I'm afraid it's still systemic "stupidity"...

And I'm afraid there are quite a few on this board who are far from "liberal"...sort of blue-dog closet (and some overt) haters and bigots.

21st Century Dixie-crats...

[Ken Burch]

248. Great post. Glad you've decided to add your voice to our forums

It is clearly needed here.

[OneGrassRoot]

252. Well said. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Swagman]

256. spot on!!..and as a white man I have no idea of what you go through but I

know it's just fucking horrible and inhumane.

[No Elephants]

278. This is the fourth thread here that I know of about Gates. I supported

Gates on the prior 3, but I still think President Obama's statement could have been better worded--and that has to do with politics, not anyone's race. Please see Posts 261 and 261.

I agree with you that the other three threads had a lot of knee jerk defense of the cop. But, you have to know that not everyone who posts on this board is really a Democrat. There are quite a few RWers who post here. Some are short term trolls who seem to be drawn here by threads on certain subjects, like discrimination. Others have posted here for years and think incorrectly that they are fooling everyone. So, don't draw any conclusions about Democrats from what you see posted on a message board.

Also, you can make your point about Gates and unfair cops or about racial discrimination in general without bringing gays into it. What did they have to do with the Gates incident? And gays certainly are not more racist than the general population. IMO, the opposite is true, though I have no statistics. Further, I disagree that gays get a free ride on this board, or IRL.

I think it sad when one persecuted or disadvantaged group attacks another. And that is exactly what some try to do, pit the members of legally, economically and/or culturally discriminated against groups against each other. It's a distraction. Please don't fall into that.

[Obama2012]

286. I'm new here, too and I've already seen a bunch of homophobic comments

Haven't seen anything racist yet, but I'm sure I'll see that, too.

[No Elephants]

301. There are plenty of both. Some are stealthy, some are very thinly disguised, if at all.

I alert on overtly racist, homophobic or misognynistic posts. Thos are the only kinds of posts that I alert on and I don't do it often. Usually, my alerts on the first two kinds will result in deletion of the post. They misogynistic ones, however, don't seem to get deleted. Wonder what that says?

Welcome.

[bdamomma]

304. welcome to DU

very good post, it was stupidity.

[TankLV]

394. What?!!! I see JUST THE OPPOSITE!!!

ANTI GAY statements are COMMON here, and the SHIT that GAY people have to put up with IS NOT TOLERATED THE SAME IF IT WERE RACIAL IN NATURE!!!

You haven't been paying attention honey...

that being cleared up, the "officer" in question of the hour was a FUCKING RACIST PIG...

I would hardly have been as "nice" as Obama was...

[IsItJustMe]

411. Amen. I know it when I see it, and I see lots of it here.

[Trocadero]

170. those cops were bullies, thugs and racist pigs. He should have called them ASSHOLES

[No Elephants]

279. It was one cop.

[MadMaddie]

4. Yes, they did!

Why is it bad to say that?

[EFerrari]

5. That's my president.

[BlueJessamine]

6. K&R

That's my president too!!

:hippie:

[Martin Eden]

7. I thought it was a stupid question to ask at this press conference

Though once asked, Obama had the option of a short dismissive anwser or the answer he gave.

IMO the latter was better, unless it distracts from the more important message of this event.

[EFerrari]

8. It's worth the time. No one ever talks about this in government.

We may look back and see that this was the most important thing he said today.

[Martin Eden]

13. I hope not

If his comments about this arrest prove more important than his efforts to reform health care, that doesn't bode well for health care.

I'm not saying racial attitudes and justice are unimportant, but his few remarks on this incident are far from the most profound or illuminating he has made on race in America.

[EFerrari]

19. No, this bite is worth the time. The health care debate will go on.

And while the health care debate may be more important to you or to some of us, the other debate is also important for millions of Americans, too.

[bluesmail]

159. That statement is prescient. I couldn't agree with it more.

wink and a nod ~ Power to the people ~

[LisaL]

103. If he doesn't know all the facts, he could have stated that and left it

at that.

[LooseWilly]

198. Uhh, what's to know?

I mean... unless Gates was so drunk/stoned/feverish with swine flu that, after showing the cops his ID to prove it was his home... he then proceeded to run out on the front lawn and start throwing bottles of tequila at the police cars (which I've had friends arrested for)... how do they justify arresting him for disturbing the peace while he's inside his home talking on the phone?

Please, outline for me a scenario in which it's ok for the police to answer a call about a break in, find the owner (verified by id) in the home, and decide to arrest him for disturbing the peace?

(Maybe the charge should've been disturbing the police?)

[No Elephants]

307. He is the one who said that he did not know the facts. Please see posts 261 and 264.

I wish he had worded his comment on the Gate incident specifically somewhat differently than he did. However, his comments on racial profiling were on the mark. I am glad some President said them. It's about damn time.

[No Elephants]

305. IMO, what he said about racial profiling needed to be said by a President.

However, what he said about the Gates incident could have been worded more prudently. (Please see posts 261 and 264.)

[RBInMaine]

9. Sorry folks, but he is going to be "clarifying" this one. He should have said:

"It seems perhaps the police may have acted rashly and cooler heads should have prevailed," or something like that. He should not have said "stupid" after having said that he was not there and didn't have all the facts. I have little doubt they probably were rash. Remember also that Gates signed a joint statement with the police dept. saying it was a "regrettable incident" and they BOTH just wanted to "put the matter behind them." In the photo of the arrest there is a black officer there. Hard to say race was the motivator of the arrest. Let's not brand the cops as "racist" not having seen the entire incident. I am willing to bet that what happened was Gates was hesitant to cooperate further once he said it was his own house and especially after he reluctantly showed his ID. And when he asked for the officer's name and badge number that just pissed off the cop. Then the joint pissing contest was on, and the cop got frustrated, lost his cool, and cuffed the guy. Probably a pretty poor arrest decision, but perhaps cooler heads should have prevailed on both sides. Again, none of us on this forum were there, so let's be very careful about over-judging this.

[EFerrari]

10. Obama obviously softened his language for public consumption.

And why are you defending these racist assholes?

[RBInMaine]

12. Re-read the post. I'm not "defending" anyone on either side. Was the black cop "racist" too?

[EFerrari]

16. The black cop was not in charge at the scene.

What would you have him do, mutiny?

Do you look to just any black person near by to solve race problems?

[RBInMaine]

24. Were you there? Did you see it all? How can you judge so thoroughly? I'm just trying to be

fair. Isn't that what we do in America? I doubt this cop started his day planning to cuff a noted Harvard professor. True, sounds like a poor arrest decision. Also, sounds like a joint pissing contest gone bad. Also sounds like cooler heads were needed on both sides. Also sounds like BOTH parties expressed regret in a JOINT statement. Fair assessment I think.

[EFerrari]

28. No, BOTH SIDES were not wrong. The racist white cop in charge

at the scene arrested Dr. Gates AFTER he ID'd him. Dr. Gates has not been shown to have done anything illegal whatsoever. Not to mention, he was in his own home when he was treated to this thuggery.

[RBInMaine]

31. To blankly charge racism here is speculation. Everyone, even cops, get a benefit of doubt. You

are rushing to judgment. A bad arrest call based on knee-jerk frustration maybe, but racism is always a pretty easy stone to throw with little evidence of proof. Just because the parties involved were of different races doesn't mean there was a racial motive here of any kind. You weren't there. You don't know all the facts. We need to hold fire here.

[EFerrari]

33. Well, no. I'm not rushing to anything. These racist bastards have a history

and they repeated it yesterday. To deny that is to deny the facts in hand.

But, be my guest.

[RBInMaine]

35. I've summarized key facts and have assessed that the cop no doubt acted rashly and with

poor judgment. Fine. However, it also seems that Gates probably over-reacted as well. Again, Gates and the police dept. issued a joint statement expressing mutual regret. Please, let's not start "profiling" all cops as "racist" here based on one incident. That can be very, very unfair and very unfounded. You were not there, didn't see it happen, and didn't hear it happen. Your charges are far more emotional than logical.

[EFerrari]

37. Nope. You have no evidence that Dr. Gates overreated at all.

And far from being emotional, my accusations are grounded in the history of that department as reported by other victims of their racial profiling.

[RBInMaine]

44. There is plenty of evidence Gates started accusing the cop of racial profiling,

refused to step onto the porch to talk, and reluctantly showed ID. Sounds like he became very defensive from the get go. However, as said, the cop no doubt behaved rashly and knee jerked a very weak arrest. You absolutely have no solid facts of any kind whatsoever that the arrest motive in THIS incident was racism, and your lumping all members of that police force into one basket is as unfair as those who do in fact profile on race. You can't charge discrimination, and then discriminate yourself, even against cops. LIBERALS defend the rights of ALL citizens, which includes a presumption of innocence, even for police officers. Regardless, at least we can agree that it was a weak arrest, whatever the motive, and regrettable that it happened, whatever the reason.

[EFerrari]

45. No, there isn't "plenty of evidence". There is a police report

written by the same assholes who did this bad arrest.

[RBInMaine]

48. Pretty asshole-ish to blindy accuse people of being "assholes." You

were not there. You are not being impartial and logical. You are being entirely emotional. Nuff said.

[EFerrari]

52. The charges were dropped, the arrest was bad. The department

said their officers were in the wrong.

That's not emotional, that's the facts. They were assholes. And they just got slammed by the President.

And again, calling someone "emotional" is not an argument.

[midnight]

208. I think that this incident having happened in the proffessor's home,

is going to define "acting stupidly". I'm with President Obama on this one.

[tblue37]

154. I think you are right that it turned into a pissing contest. But the man was in his

own home, and it is not illegal to say such things to a police officer or demand his name and badge number when you feel you are being mistreated, though of course most cops will arrest you these days if you dare to say anything at all to them.

Also, cops are supposed to be trained to de-escalate situations. They shouldn't be the ones to deliberately escalate them. As soon as the cop found out the man was in his own home, he should have apologized and left. Even if Gates followed him outside yelling, as he did, the cop should have just said, "Sorry, sir," and left. It was still Gate's home.

[No Elephants]

309. Losing your cool because a cop is hassling you for nothing more than being in

your own home is not a reason to be cuffed and arrested. Once the cop saw the ID, that should have been the end of it. "Sorry to have bothered you, Professor Gates, but, of course, we had to check. Good night."

As Gates said, "I thought to myself, this is ridiculous, but I'll show him my ID and that'll be it." (Or words to that effect.)

Instead, according to his own police report, after seeing the ID, this guy called in the Harvard University Police and continued the incident. It was then and only then that Gates got upset.

Now, think. If Gates were a well-dressed, well-spoken 58 year old disabled wealthy white man, would this cop have called the Harvard University Police after seeing two forms of photo ID? I very much doubt it.

As for your comment about the black cop, I addressed that in Post 291, below.

And this post assumes that Gates even lost his cool. He said he was suffering from bronchitis and could not have raised his voice if he wanted to. And he alos said that doesn't go around calling white people racist. Given his life work, I am inclined to believe him. However, as I said, raising your voice if you're being hassled wrongly is not a crime.

[No Elephants]

290. Your question suggests that an African American cop cannot possibly

harbor any of the same prejudices against African Americans found in the society in which that cop spent his entire life. I suggest you stop and analyze that obviously unexamined assumption. I also suggest that you stop assuming that skin color, in and of itself, has that much power.

Besides, in the photo I saw, I saw only one African American cop. He was outside, facing the crowd, while Professor Gates was already cuffed. What does that have to do with anything?

[No Elephants]

291. Your question suggests that an African American cop cannot possibly

harbor any of the same prejudices against African Americans found in the society in which that cop spent his entire life. I suggest you stop and analyze that obviously unexamined assumption. I also suggest that you stop assuming that skin color, in and of itself, determines how a person behaves or thinks. That kind of assumption is exactly what gives rise to racial profiling.

Besides, in the photo I saw, I saw only one African American cop. He was outside, facing the crowd, while Professor Gates was already cuffed. What does that have to do with anything?

[Towlie]

14. I hope he doesn't back down. That would be depressing.

[No Elephants]

293. Please see posts 261 and 264. His statements about racial profiling were great, though.

[theblasmo]

351. He's a lawyer...

...so when he says he doesn't know the facts, but the cops acted stupidly, it's not the same as, let's say, a regular person without much prior legal knowledge making the same call. Obama knows the law, and esp. how it's been twisted against minorities of every type by certain members of the law enforcement community in this country. He also knows stupid when he sees it, and what they did was stupid.

[question everything]

25. Wasn't the arresting officer black, too? (nt)

[EFerrari]

39. Nope.

[question everything]

41. Oh, thanks. Seems that I misread the story (nt)

[No Elephants]

314. No, but it would not have made a bit of difference in my opinion of this matter if he had been.

Please see post # 291.

[No Elephants]

315. Dupe, sorry.

[Chemisse]

85. I agree with you - I don't think this story is clear enough

to make those kinds of statements. When I read it through it looked to me like there was blame on both sides. Of course the story could have been stuffed with disinformation - on either side.

Obama should not be making comments about a minor incident that is not a sterling example of a white cop acting in a racist way toward a black man. There are plenty of very good examples of that out there, but they don't make the news like a Harvard professor does.

[No Elephants]

320. I disagree. But, the issue was not whether there was blame on both sides. The only

issue is whether Gates should have been arrested. We are not talking about politeness. We are talking about being charged with committing a crime. And even if Professor Gates was "loud," he was loud in his own home. Not a crime. And Obama never said this was a racist incident. He said that he did not have enough facts to say that. He said the police behaved stupidly. I agree, except I take issue with the plural. One cop acted like a jerk.

However, speaking for myself, I am fairly certain that no cop of any color would have arrested a wealthy, well-educae, well-spoken 58 year old white man under these same circumstances. Joe Scarborough has been saying the same thing; and he is a con from Florida.

[Iowa]

117. Nonsense...

"...none of us on this forum were there, so let's be very careful about over-judging this."

Nonsense. The law enforcement profession has a long and miserable history of racism, rigidity, sadism, and stupidity. Throughout history they have served as blunt tools of the plutocracy, always on the cutting edge of tyranny and repression wherever it occurs. Many citizens, with very good reason, view cops as likely to be power-crazed, sociopathic, dull-witted bullies who can usually be found eating donuts, harassing law-abiding citizens over nothing, tazing grandmothers, or preying on minorities to be fed to the prison industry. As a group, they have earned our distrust, our derision, and our lack of respect. The average law-abiding citizen has more to fear from cops than they do from criminals.

I say this as an older, white male who is relatively high on the socio-economic scale, and as one who has never had a run in with the law in any way, shape or form - about as far away from the demographic cops typically prey on as it's possible to get. I can't even imagine how those who are in their sights must feel. Obama was absolutely right on this.

It is perfectly reasonable to assume the worst given the facts we have in this case, and knowing what we know about cops. If cops don't want to be "over-judged" (as you put it), they can change their behavior. Until they re-establish the public's trust, it's best to assume the worst and do everything we can to diminish their power over us.

[No Elephants]

322. It' not only what we know about cops. I have seen greatt behavior by some cops

and shameful behavior from some cops. It's what we know about this incident and Professor Gates in general.

[global1]

195. I Think Obama Will Be Asked About His "Stupid" Comment And Will Say.....

he himself acted 'stupidly' for saying such a thing. He'll get some self deprecating laughs. He'll clarify his comments of today and this will be over.

I think its funny how 99% of the conference was on health reform - and the MSM is picking up and making a big issue about his comments on this matter. Anything to get the people's mind off of the healthcare reform.

[No Elephants]

324. I quibbled with some of his wording upthread, but stupid is on the mark. And then some.

You think a man has broken into a home. He shows you his ID. Case closed. This guy called in the Harvard Uiversity Police at that point. And did not leave, but kept insisting that Gates stop outside (so he could cuff him apparently). and when asked for his name and badge number, which Gates had a right to get, he refused to give it. And then he arrested the man he'd been hassling for no reason for being loud.

Trouble is, before he cuffed him, Professor Gates was in his own home. As soon as the Professor stepped outside his threshhold, the cop cuffed him. Raising your voice in your own home is not a crime. Neither is asking if a cop is hassling you for no reason because you are black. Neither is asking a cop for his name and badge.

Even going by the police report, Gates did nothing wrong.

[ProudDad]

223. Well, you know, those little black children must have gotten

in the way of those fire hoses. Clumsy I guess...



And what do you think they did to piss off those dogs?



Perhaps cooler heads should have prevailed on both sides...




I heard the same tired shit in the Deep South during Jim Crow segregation. There's a context and a history here. And it still goes on...


So sad...

[medeak]

11. inappropriately would have been a better word

husband and I both said "Oh no" when he said it...as knew that would be the news headline rather than health care dammit

[RBInMaine]

15. Yup. Obama is probably biting his tongue right now. Bad word choice.

[Robb]

21. You know, I doubt it.

Obama hasn't been a guy to misuse language in the past. He was ready for the question, because he had to know someone would ask about it. He's a pro.

If he said "stupid," he meant to. He has something to convey with "stupid" he couldn't convey another way.

[eridani]

242. He's a cautious type who plans things

Impulsive isn't the word that comes to mind when you think "Obama."

[ProudDad]

225. He should have said FUCKING RACIST ....

But that might have derailed the press conference off og the subject of health care... :sarcasm:

[EFerrari]

17. I'd say arresting a man you already ID'd in his own home

is acting stupidly.

He wanted to say something else and it's clear when you watch the video.

[RBInMaine]

20. Yeah, but there was also more to incident. As I say, little doubt of a poor arrest decision, but it

seems that perhaps Gates' also wasn't behaving like a perfect angel. Just trying to be fair. A black cop was there and participated in the arrest. Charging racism is pretty tough without all the facts.

[EFerrari]

23. More to the incident? Not really. They made a bad arrest.

They brought shame on their department and made themselves look like idiots. The charges have been dropped and an apology is likely in the works.

And, in case you missed this, the black officer was not in command. He couldn't very well tell his superior that he was being a racist asshole, could he?

No, charging racism is not tough at all. It's easy and it's reasonable and that's why Obama brought it up.

[RBInMaine]

26. Well, it is speculation too. You were not there. I was not there. Obama said he didn't

have all the facts, then said the cops behaved "stupidly." You just can't do that. Sorry. He messed that up and contradicted himself. He'll retract it, no doubt. He never mentioned the joint statement, signed by Gates, expressing regret and just wanting to move on. That doesn't sound like a charge of racism.

[EFerrari]

30. Wrong. The facts are in, the police were wrong.

And with their history of racial profiling, this isn't the last we'll hear of this.

[RBInMaine]

32. One fact is Gates' signed statement of joint regret.

[EFerrari]

34. You're not trying to use that gracious act against him, are you?

Seriously?

[No Elephants]

325. Difference being, Gates got arrested by someone who is trained and required to de-escalate.

[annm4peace]

161. many great responses, I really like this one

it is amazing how many people like to stay in denial of white privledge and racial profiling.

once Dr. Gates showed the cop his license and harvard Id he should have apologized and left.

There is no justification for his arrest.


Chris Matthews was making the same lame justification. All I can think of other than .. shut the fuck up.. I also think 'how mighty white of you"

[ProudDad]

226. GOD, YES. Matthews was truly awful!

I had to (again) turn off that twit!

I almost NEVER watch his damn show -- he's such a fucked up piece of work...

[DissedByBush]

49. It depends on who you believe

The cop says Gates was shouting that the cop was a racist and he was being IDed only was because he was black. The cop says he told him to calm down twice before arresting him.

Gates' story is a little too clean for me to believe. He portrays himself as acting like a perfect angel who was arrested with absolutely no incorrect action on his part after he showed ID in his own home. It's hard to believe a cop would do that especially for racist reasons when accompanied by a black cop.

The truth is somewhere in there. Gates probably did act up and claim the cop was racist for doing his job (protecting Gates' property!) but it was probably not reasonably grounds to arrest him.

[EFerrari]

55. What is your basis for saying Gates "probably did act up"?

He has zero history of these incidents.

This police department, on the other hand, does have a history.

And, I assume you didn't mean to say he got uppity. I'm just going to assume that.

[DissedByBush]

211. Oh, maybe the police report?

There are people who like to make everything an issue of race even when it isn't.

[EFerrari]

249. You're joking, right? It's the Cambridge Police that have a history,

not Dr. Gates.

[DissedByBush]

311. Pllease show n/t

[EFerrari]

321. Another professor mentions it in one of the very first articles:

Counter, who had called Gates from the Nobel Institute in Sweden, where Counter is on sabbatical, said that Gates was “shaken” and “horrified” by his arrest.

Counter has faced a similar situation himself. The well-known neuroscience professor, who is also black, was stopped by two Harvard police officers in 2004 after being mistaken for a robbery suspect as he crossed Harvard Yard. They threatened to arrest him when he could not produce identification.

That incident was among several that ignited criticism from black students and faculty, highlighting the prejudices that many black students say they continue to face at Harvard.

“This is very disturbing that this could happen to anyone, and not just to a person of such distinction,” Counter said. “He was just shocked that this had happened, at 12:44 in the afternoon, in broad daylight. It brings up the question of whether black males are being targeted by Cambridge police for harassment.”

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/harvard.html


This by another resident:

None of us African-American residents of Cambridge are surprised or shocked by the humiliation and harassment Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., 58, of Harvard University encountered at the hands of Cambridge police.

My partner, Dr.Thea James, an Emergency Room physician who would drive from home to work was stopped all the time for "driving while black." And when the Cambridge cops realized she's a woman, and a lesbian one at that, their unbridled homophobia surfaces. Thea now takes the bus.

My girlfriend's kids and their friends hang out at the Cambridge's Galleria Mall like kids do. The Cambridge police in the mall stop my girlfriend's kids and their friends; one white and two Asians are not, because "shopping while black" is always mistaken as shoplifting.

These constant shakedowns of us have been deliberately on the down low to the public because Cambridge, proudly dubbed as "The People's Republic of Cambridge," is ranked as one of the most liberal cities in America. And with two of the country's premier institutions of higher learning - Harvard and Massachusetts Institute of Technology- that draw students and scholars from around the world, Cambridge's showcase of diversity and multiculturalism rivals that of the U.N.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/irene-monroe/living-while-black-in-cam_b_242563.html

And this is the NAACP's statement:


NAACP Calls for Immediate Policy Changes at Cambridge PD
Following the Racial Profiling Arrest of Harvard Professor
Henry Louis Gates, Jr.

In the wake of yet another unfortunate case of racial profiling, the NAACP joins Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., in calling for a formal apology from the Police Department of Cambridge, Massachusetts.

The NAACP national leadership, and the President of the NAACP New England State Conference, Juan Cofield, along with Kathy Reddick, President of the Cambridge Branch of the NAACP, also calls for the City of Cambridge and its Police Department to implement policy changes to prevent racial profiling in the future, including:

* A comprehensive anti-racial profiling training program for law enforcement personnel in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
* Race and gender sensitivity and diversity training for law enforcement personnel.
* The immediate formation of a Police Accountability Citizen Complaint Review Board. This board should be invested with the resources, subpoena power, and independence to investigate reports of misconduct, abuse, and racial profiling by city law enforcement officers; and with the ability to make recommendations for the resolution of complaints.

Implementation of these initiatives should occur with all deliberate speed. And we urge members of the U.S. Congress to pass the End Racial Profiling Act that is scheduled to be introduced later this month.

http://www.naacp.org/news/press/2009-07-22/index.htm

[Fearless]

398. So in summary your "evidence" is from 1987, an editorial, and doesn't apply...

Because it refers back to the case I asked for evidence of racism for. You can't define something by using the word in the definition. Keep trying...

[EFerrari]

404. These morans arrested Henry Louis Gates.

I'm sorry they were so stupid.

Now they have to deal with it.

[DissedByBush]

402. Thanks, that does happen, sadly

On the other side this officer was appointed by a black police chief to teach courses about racial profiling.

It appears the department knows of these problems and is doing something about it. And this officer is at the spearhead of stopping the problem.

Somehow he is the one engaged in racism and profiling?

[alcibiades_mystery]

95. Calling a cop a racist is not an arrestable offense

Too often "disorderly conduct" is used as a "contempt of cop" statute. Contempt of cop is not against the law in any of these united states.

[DissedByBush]

212. If the cop is completely truthful it is

I don't think he was completely truthful but he said Gates was raising enough of a stink for the cop to have to tell him to calm down twice. That is enough for a disorderly conduct charge if true.

[No Elephants]

329. Baloney. Gates was inside his own home with a perfect right to be there.

You even have a right to raise your voice in your own home, especially to an intruder. Once Gates showed the cop he lived there, the cop was the one who had no right to be there.

[DissedByBush]

417. He followed the cop out

He was yelling all the way according to the cop.

The cop was not an intruder. He was there to protect Gates' property.

[ProudDad]

227. He WAS being IDed ONLY because he was black.

Geez, what color is the sky in your little racist world?

"The cop says Gates was shouting that the cop was a racist and he was being IDed only was because he was black."

ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

If a WHITE professor had come to the door the cop would have said, "Excuse me sir, but someone reported a break in at your house." And after being told that there was no break in, just a sticky door...would have left with a "Glad to hear it, sir."

No ID necessary...

The racist bullshit on this board is enough to make one :puke:

What's even worse is that the racists are tone deaf to their racism... :puke: :puke:

[wurzel]

373. Don't jump to the conclusion this was racism.

These cops act this way to anyone they think is challenging their authority. And they seem to believe their authority is absolute.

[No Elephants]

326. You have over 900 posts here and I have still not seen a one that is typical of a Democrat. News

flash: Unless he hit the cop, he did not commit a crime.

Even if you go by the police report and nothing else, Gates did not commit a crime. Even if you go by the police report and nothing else, the cop was out of line.

After being shown two forms of photo ID, at least one of which showed that Professor Gates was inside his own home, that should have been the end of the incident. Instead, this cop escalated it by calling the Harvard University Police. It was not until then that Professor Gates asked whether the cop was doing this because Gates was a black man. At that point, it was a very reasonable question. And even if it weren't an unreasonable question, at the point, Gates had a right to be in his home and the cop did not. If the cop did not like Professor Gates's tone, he should have left. Besides, unlike Professor Gates, the cop's duty to de-fuse trouble, not escalate it.

PS, by the time the officer wrote that report, he probably knew he had arrrested a world famous man. In his shoes, I would have written a version of event that was as unfavorable to Gates as I possibly could.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

50. WTF!

"seems that perhaps Gates' also wasn't behaving like a perfect angel".

Gates was in his own home, he hadn't broken any laws! Why should he have to act like a perfect angel after he had shown this policeman his ID to prove who he was. It doesn't matter the colour of the participants, although racism played a huge part.. This low-IQ-piece-of-shit cop was in this mans house harassing him. He should have asked 'how can I help/serve you' after, he found out Gates owned the house, then got the fuck off his porch. This arse hole cop works for us!

Police acting like thugs and health care is what's wrong with this country. I'm so glad both issues were discussed in the same press conference. Well done Mr. President!

The police need to be put their place and reminded they work for us and it's not their duty to go around scaring people. It is not their job to be be judge, jury and executioner.

[Number23]

97. You are breaking into a sweat trying DESPERATELY to defend the actions

of these police officers.

The charges were DROPPED. The police department will likely be offering an APOLOGY to Dr. Gates soon. And I wouldn't be surprised if a lawsuit was in the works.

At WHAT DAMNED POINT do you not concede that the police officers acted inappropriately and that a major contributing factor for this inappropriate behavior was the race of the alleged perpetrator?

[bertman]

18. Perhaps the President should have read the police report before he incorrectly stated

that the police acted stupidly. Gates acted stupidly by not complying with the officer's request to show i.d. until AFTER he had berated the officer and accused him of being a racist.

Just imagine if you or I had refused to give a police officer our i.d. and started calling him a racist. We would have been arrested without further ado. Instead, the officer accepted Gates' i.d. and did not arrest him until after Gates continued to loudly berate him as being racist for simply doing his job.

The President is a lawyer and would be expected to get all the facts before assuming that his friend, Skip, was totally in the right and being profiled.

It was disappointing to me to see our President give a knee-jerk response to that question.

But I thought he did great in the rest of the press conference.

[EFerrari]

22. You are relying on the written report of a police officer whose own department

has already repudiated his behavior. And, on that basis, you accuse OBAMA of a knee jerk response?

Unbelievable.

[Abq_Sarah]

65. Was the President there?

Did he have all the facts?

No.

He shouldn't have commented at all.

[LooseWilly]

206. The President knows Dr. Gates. Dr. Gates was arrested for disturbing the peace in his own home.

I think the President likely knew all he needed to know, to know that the cops were full of shit. Arresting a man for disturbing the peace in his own home, when answering a call about a break in?... gimme a fucking break. That's a case of Police Power Trip, except in the rare case when the residence happens to be a grow house or a meth lab (and I think I'm pretty safe in assuming a negative on that "fact" in this case), or a crackhouse, or something like that.

And, as all reasonable people, especially people who're any shade of skin darker than unpasteurized milk, know... Police Power Trips happen more to dark people... which the President acknowledged.

What I find most shocking isn't that a Police Power Trip occurred... what I find shocking is how many people are in denial.

[EFerrari]

251. LOL

[No Elephants]

337. The fact that the the Professor was in his own home and the cop did not leave

after ascertaining that speaks for itself. I have some wording quibbles, which I posted in 261 and 264. But stupid is the world. As soon as professor Gates stepped over his threshhold, the cop arrested him. So the entire incident took place in the man's own home. Being "loud and tumultous" in your own home is not a crime, especially when you are being loud with someone who won't leave.

[No Elephants]

354. I post here daily. I have yet to see a post of yours that sounds as though it was made by a

a Democrat. But, you're posting here, so I assume you are. ;-)


It's very simple. Gates committed no crime. AS soon as the cop ascertained that, the cop should have left Gates's home. He had no further police business there at that time.

By his very own account, though, the cop didn't leave at that point. And he was not invited to stay. So, at that point, legally, the cop became a trespasser on Gates's property.

As a trespasser, the cop called the Harvard University Police for no apparent reason and continued hassling Gates in his own home, continuing to insist that Gates step outside. In other words, he escalated the situation wrongfully, when his job includes de-fusing situations.

Further, he refused to give his name or badge number when asked, which he has an obligation to do. And not only began questioning Gates without reading him Mirandas, but arrested and charged him without reading him his Mirandas. All that is according to the cop's own account.

And according to his Police Department, it was unfortunate, regrettable and definitely not the cop's "finest hour."

Stupid is mild word for that. You don't need more facts to know it was stupid. Now, whether it was racist is another story, so Obama never said it was racist.

If someone burps in American and another African American is somehow involved, the press asks Obama comment on it. I've noticed that and I am quite sure Obama and his people have noticed that. So, he knew he would be asked. You can bet your bottom dollar that African American lawyer read the police report and what the police department said before facing the press and probably more. But, it doesn't matter. I've read a lot and seen a lot of interviews and "stupid" is right as rain.

[Abq_Sarah]

396. When you grow up and stop smearing people for disagreeing with you

Perhaps we can have a conversation.

[AlexinVA]

27. You're assuming the police report is an accurate account of what happened

and I'm not giving the cop 100% benefit of the doubt. When it was just the two of them in the house, by both accounts, Gates showed the cop his Harvard ID... but that wasn't enough. The cop took the time to call the Harvard University police to confirm Gates' ID, etc. Highly unlikely a white guy would have to go through all that to prove he was in his own damn house. Sure, Gates should've kept his cool, but I understand why he didn't.

[bertman]

40. I read the report yesterday. The officer said that when he first asked Gates for his i.d.

Gates went off on him calling him a racist and saying something to the effect of this is how black men get treated in America. Finally Gates calmed down and showed his i.d. but then started yelling at the officer about being a racist. That was what prompted the cop to arrest him.

If the officer had been given the i.d. when he first asked for it and had not been berated for being a racist, this would not have escalated.

Yes, I am assuming that the police report is accurate.

I'm sure Gates was pissed to be asked for i.d. at his own home, but considering the circumstance that the police had been called for a break-in with two men at the door with backpacks, and the cop does not know Gates, and Gates is refusing to show i.d. and calling the cop a racist.

My point is that the President alluded to racial profiling when it was nothing of the sort. It was a situation where the person refused to do what the police officer asked and it got out of hand after that.

Dead horse. Got to go.

[EFerrari]

47. This isn't the first black faculty member treated in this way by this police force.

Obama is right and you are wrong on this one.

[bertman]

89. Did the other faculty member refuse to show his i.d. to the officer? Did the other faculty

member berate the officer for being a racist while refusing to do as the officer had legitimately asked him to do?

I don't follow your logic on this, EFerrari. You seem to be saying that because another black faculty member has been treated badly by the Cambridge police that it logically follows that this was the same. I disagree with that assumption.

I'd also like to see a link that backs up what you say about the Cambridge police "repudiating" the officer's actions. Dismissing the charges in a situation like this is hardly repudiating the charges, if that's what you're saying.

I'm willing to be shown that the President was right, but based on what I read yesterday I think the President was 1) inaccurate because he said that Gates showed the officer his i.d., implying that he did it immediately and without being a butthead first; 2) saying the police were stupid when they were trying to do their job and had to deal with an irate individual.

[EFerrari]

155. The only report you have about a delay in showing ID

was from the cops that made this bum arrest. Consider that.

And you don't know Gates was a butthead first. That's from the report too, and it goes against a career of very public behavior with zero other instances.

Plus, the police arrested Gates AFTER he had identified himself to them. Therefore, they no longer had any reason to question him or detain him or even be in his home.

At that point, they stopped "trying to do their job" and began harassing Dr. Gates.

I'm so proud of our president for calling out bad behavior that is visited too many Americans every day, and Americans who don't have powerful friends.

[No Elephants]

342. No, the President said the cop behaved stupidly because the cop did not leave after seeing ID.

That implies nothing about either a delay or no delay. And is perfectly acccurate.

If you read the police report, you do not see the cop saying anything about Gates being loud until the narrative of the report passes the point at which the cop had seen Gate's ID. And again, being loud and irate in your own home is not a crime.

The police usually defend the cop until there is no other option. So, when the department says it was "regrettable," unfortunate," that is as close to repudiating as it's likely to get.

[No Elephants]

338. Your recollection of that report is faulty. And so is your assumption that it was accurate.

When the police officer arrested Gates, he may not have known that Gates was world famous. Bet he did once he got to the station.

In his shoes, I would have made Gates sound as bad as I could. And Gates did not call him a racist. Gates asked "Why? Because I am a black man in America?" Gates also said he doesn't call white people racists. And if you know Gates's life work, you would assume that to be so.

Today, to reporters, the cop started to say Gates called him a racist and stopped in mid sentence, correcting himself to "questioned me." That said all I need to know about whether Gates called him a racist or not. At most, the police report should have either stated the words Gates actually used or said "implied I was a racist."

PS. Calling a cop a racist is not a crime. Neither is asking why he is hassling you, now that he knows there was no break in.

[RBInMaine]

29. Obama, usually so measured, flubbed here. He caused this distraction. He needs to correct it.

[EFerrari]

36. What a crock.

[RBInMaine]

38. Look, I think Obama is great. But just watch him amend this one, and he should.

Again, you don't say "I don't know all the facts" and then a minute later say that one party acted "stupidly." Sorry, again, I love Obama, and thought he did great otherwise, but he is going to have to correct this. He created a needless distraction to an otherwise excellent performance.

[EFerrari]

43. Obama called them stupid in order to avoid calling them worse.

And this isn't a distraction to the many black Americans who are the victims of racial profiling.

[RBInMaine]

54. But he is President of ALL Americans, and this was poor language. He knows better.

[EFerrari]

62. Excuse me? What do you mean, he's president of "all Americans"?

Do you mean this black president should know better than to bring up race?

I'm sure you don't mean that the concerns of black Americans aren't also the concerns of all Americans.

[No Elephants]

339. "Stupidly" was not poor language. It was on the mark. You come to investigate a break in. you

determine none has occurred. you leave. If you don't leave at that point, you are trespassing.

This guy escalated a mistake into a question asked of the POTUS. That is not his job. His job is to de-fuse a situation. And speaking of doing his job, he did not give his name or badge number when asked, even if you go only by the police report. Nor did he ever read Gates his Mirandas, even going by the police report.

And, even going by the police department's version, the cop's behavior was not great. No matter what you want to say or believe about Gates's conduct, Gates was in his own home and, after he saw ID, the cop was the trespasser.

[No Elephants]

347. As President of ALL Americans, he should speak out against racial profiling.

It's about damned time some President or another did. Too bad it had to be an African American President. A white President would have been lauded. An African American President, though, gets a totally clueless comment about not being he President about ALL Americans.

So far, that's two kinds of comments from you based solely on skin color.

Going back to read the rest of the thread to see if there's a third strike.

[MichiganVote]

57. Agree.

[No Elephants]

355. Then, please see Reply 347.

[CakeGrrl]

90. No he doesn't. If this is the shiny object the MSM wants to follow

for a while, so be it. Let them keep squawking and shine a light on all the questionable police behavior crap so they stop trying to drive public opinion on Healthcare into the negatives.

The statement was self-evident. It's stupid to arrest a man in his own home after he was ID'd. The charges have been dropped, so Obama, the lawyer, knew he wasn't compromising a situation.

[Trocadero]

171. aw, poor little racist thugs got their feelings huwt

[Compline]

58. Agreed

Sounds like the perfect opportunity for someone to break into Dr. Gates' residence for real. I wonder how quick the police will be to respond THE NEXT TIME there's a call about suspicious activity at his house.

[lexanman]

114. berating a cop for being racist

is not an arrestable offense. Gates did show ID and the charges have been dropped. If the cops dropped the charges, it tells you very clearly they didn't have a reason to arrest him in the first place. Obama is right, the cop did act stupidly.

[bertman]

156. Not so. Police often drop charges in this type of incident if the offending individual has

no history of causing problems. In this case, the arrested individual was a prominent citizen and certainly not a threat. Just a hothead.

What I wonder is how would Mr. Gates have treated an African American officer if he had asked him for i.d.? Would he have berated him for being a racist? Would he have refused to show i.d.?

I doubt it.

I think it pissed Gates off that this white cop was asking him for i.d. at his own house. Mr. Gates' own personal version of racial profiling that overpowered his judgment.

[lexanman]

167. being a hothead is not an arrestable offense, nor is calling the police a racist.

Police withdraw charges when they know they filed them with no chance of success of prosecution because they are bogus, not because police are all warm and cuddly. And the police file the charges, it's the magistrates who usually drops them at the prelim hearing. The police withdrew the charges because they were bogus. Please don't be dishonest when making your argument.

What you wonder is irrelevant because that is not what happened, and it speak volumes.

I think it pissed you off that a black man dared to speak up for his rights. Wouldn't be the first time. Racial profiling happens all the time. I assume that you think it's really white males that are the victims of racial profiling?

[Divine Discontent]

244. in reading the new comments from when I last posted I see you've left several

learn to respond appropriately or you're going to be tagged as an agressive idiot. we work for EVERYONE'S rights here. I have more videos up on my youtube channel for black issues than for gay ones - because of the police abuse issue, but you wouldn't know that - because you don't know the people on here, so watch your tongue in being so angry about the issue that you don't slander progressive individuals who we've known on this site for more than a few days.

His opinion about the professor's response to the cops is probably accurate, a white cop probably was very short with him because he didn't know if he was the intruder that was called on by the lady seeing the two pushing the door open, and he probably reacted with disdain at being asked for ID by a white cop in his own damn house... not shocking...

this line to a good DU member I've seen plenty of progressive posts from, "I assume that you think it's really white males that are the victims of racial profiling?" is so obnoxious when you don't know the person, that you're being put on ignore - you clearly love to start shit.

[Divine Discontent]

245. 'I think it pissed you off that a black man dared to speak up for his rights.'

OH YEAH! It pissed off the liberal democrat that a black man stood up for his rights!


Do you HEAR yourself??? You're not on AOL arguing with the neocon rightwingers that hate Obama - this is Democratic Underground, that user's been here for more than a week - I think you should apologize for such slander. It's embarrassing to you.

[lexanman]

372. wow. you seem really upset about something that was not even addressed to you

it's your opinion that the other posters opinion is right. Cool with me. Shouting in caps is not necessary.

[bertman]

334. Actually, as I said previously, police drop charges for lots of reasons, which you seem

incapable of admitting.

How do you know what happened?

I think everyone should speak up for their rights if they feel like they are being violated. I also think that following a police officer's instructions is not optional, nor is it appropriate or even advisable to berate any police officer who is trying to perform his/her duties.

The appropriate behavior would be to comply with the officer's request for i.d. IMMEDIATELY and without raising hell. Then, if the officer presses the issue, take it up with the police superintendent, Chief, or Mayor.

No, it did not piss me off that a black man dared to speak up for his rights. It pissed me off that he apparently felt that he didn't have to comply with the cop's request and that Mr. Gates JUMPED TO THE CONCLUSION that the officer was racially profiling him. As I said in another post, I doubt seriously if Mr. Gates would have reacted the same way if the officer who had first arrived had been a black officer.

[lexanman]

376. In this instance the police dropped the charges

because Mr. Gates did nothing wrong whatsoever to be arrested for. I know what happened because I read the report. The police officer after being given ID had no business being in the property let alone aressting Mr. Gates. I'll repeat again. The police dropped the charges because Mr Gates did nothing to be arrested for.

He did follow the police officers instructions. Im not sure what part of that your'e intentionally missing. he showed him his ID. The police after that needed to leave . He had no business being there. And Mr. Gates could have called him a racist 100 times all the way to the front door while the police officer left. Mr Gates still would have not done anything to be arrested for.

You know nothing about who Mr. Gates is or how he would have reacted if a black police officer arrived instead. That wasnt the case. That is not what happened. Tha is called diversion.

[lexanman]

175. Oh and with language like "offending individual" and "arrested individual"

jumps right out. I have several attorney friends and I know police speak. You are either a current or former policeman. Am I right?

[bertman]

336. You're wrong. Better brush up on your "police speak".

[No Elephants]

343. LOL. Professor Gates is anything but a hothead. It's not as though Gates

dropped from the moon two mnutes before this incident. I've watched him for years and his wiki is as long as your arm.

He is courtly, soft spoken and mild. He's done TV shows, lectures research and the like all over the world, working with and interviewing all kinds of people. He has taught thousands and thousands of studdents. I bet you would find a prior similar incident with this cop a lot sooner than you will find anything in Professor Gates's past to even hint Gates ia hothead.

But, let's assume he is. Being a hot head in your own home to someone who has no legitimate business there is not a crime.

I have no idea why people are twisting themselves into pretzels when it is obvious that the cop was pissed that he was not getting the degree of deference he thought due him. So, he arrrested Gate because he could. (Or so he thought, until he found out that he did indeed not know who he was messing with, just as Gates had said.) period.

The sad thing is, if Gates had been the maintenance man at Harvard, instead of a world renown celebrity, the cop would have probably gotten away with his pathetic power trip.

[No Elephants]

356. You think Gates is a racist? That is a riot. If you read Gates wiki, he

speaks of a particular kind of comment and says a racist remark is a racist remark, whether a white man says it or a black man says it. At least his wiki included that comment when I first read it. Apparently, his wiki been "vandalized" since this hit the fan.

You clear know less than nothing about Dr. Gates. Therefore, aAny racist assumption you make about him says a lot more about you than it does about him. You accused Gates of racial profiling based on what you imagined he would do in a situation that never occurred. Yet, you were the one who was doing the racial profling of Gates.

[No Elephants]

360. He did not berate him. He said "Why? Because I am a black man in America?" Perfectly

logical question if you are a black man, with Dr. Gate's life experiences, inside your own home and a cop knocks and askd you for your ID without explaining why he is asking. Being white, I would simply have said, "Officer, I am in my own home and have done nothing wrong. Now, please leave, unless you have a warrant."

[ProudDad]

229. I'm not black...

If I had answered the door the officer would have politely inquired as to whether anything was missing since there was a report of a break in, been told that it was a sticky door would have said, "Thank you, sir. Glad to hear that." and left.

Just as they always do.

But then, I'm not Black.

Obama was soft-pedaling it.

Instead of "stupid" he should have called the cop a bat-shit crazy racist motherfucker...which no doubt he will in private...

But I guess you like the little police state the corporate political parties have given us, eh?

[Exultant Democracy]

316. racist cops=bullshit report. Harvard Prof has a lot more credibility imo.

[No Elephants]

332. Your facts are wrong. Gates showed two forms of photo ID. One was his driver's

license, which bore his address. The other was his Harvard University photo ID, not sure if it showed his address. At that point, the officer knew, beyond a doubt, that the 911 caller had made a mistake. There had been no break in. At that point, the cop had no further legitimate police business in that home and therefore became a trespasser.

So, what did he do after seeing two forms of photo ID, including address and occupation? Did he acknowledge there was "nothing to see here" and leave, which would have ended the entire thing? Nope. He called the Harvard University Police. That is according to the police report. If you can find a reason for that, you've missed your true calling.

Picture this: A well dressed, world famous, disabled white man of 58 is in his own home in a neighborhood of expensive homes. A cop starts questioning him about a break in and discovers no break in has occurred. Do you really think the cop would continue the incident?

[Starry Messenger]

42. "Stupid" hardly begins to cover it.

but I guess saying "epic fail!" wouldn't be very Presidential.

[RBInMaine]

46. It was stupid for the President of the United States to say "stupid" much as I like Obama.

[Starry Messenger]

51. Oh well.

Maybe he'll ask you next time.

[RBInMaine]

53. No, he should ask the usually very active left side of his own brain next time.

[Starry Messenger]

56. How did you envision this going?

I have my opinion and you have yours. I'm not changing mine because of your posts, so you can save your energy.

[RBInMaine]

63. We do these exchanges to have a fair exchange of opinion and fair review of perspectives. Agreeing

to disagree is fine. G-night.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

61. How different we are.

I was so proud when he called it like it was. I guess you have never been treated badly and scared to death of the American police in your life.

I was treated like a criminal twice while I was over here as a tourist 35 years ago. It was kind of disturbing to say the least when you just arrive from a country where the police have a totally different attitude. In London I was allowed to walk around any hour without being harassed by the police. It was their job to make sure I could walk where I liked and when I like on public property

Calling them stupid was kind.

[EFerrari]

67. Exactly. It was kind. n/t

[RBInMaine]

76. He is the President. HE has to be fair-minded and not invite distraction. Also,

one person's negative experience can never be extrapolated to an entire group. That itself is discriminatory and wrong. I was once, in an ongoing way, treated very poorly by an African American superior while in the service. I mean NO ONE liked this guy, whatever their race or gender. An African American woman in the service OFTEN made very improper and sexually harassing remarks to men (of whatever race). Does this mean I think all African Americans and/or women behave awfully? That they all go around with such needless chips on their shoulders? Hell no. Others I knew were wonderful who I would have taken bullets for; would have followed them ANYWHERE they asked. We've all had poor experiences with people of differing races, genders, professions, or whatever. You take each person ONE at a time in this life, and you NEVER lump anyone, even police, into just one basket.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

230. Sorry but the police here in the US are shit

I've lived on the east coast (DC) and west coast and now the in the rural west and have lots of tales to tell. But can't you understand, it's not just my personal experiences that give me a very bad opinion of them but because of the shitty fucked up things they do on a regular basis. Like zapping people because they can. The police all over this country have the wrong attitude. They don't know their place. They are not our bosses. They cannot walk into my house and after I've proven I have a right to be there, arrest me because they don't like me for some reason, even though I didn't break any law. If they are in my house or on my land uninvited with no just cause (anymore) I have the right to tell them to leave. I also have the right to get mad and vent in my own home. Uninvited guests be damned! I grew up hearing 'an Englishman's home is his castle'.

I think it's a rather conservative attitude to say everything is OK, so don't criticize, let alone form a opinion.

Obama is being very fair minded. Thank goodness the problem of police stupidity, not to mention brutality, is being addressed by a President of the United States.

[Trocadero]

190. No, stupid is invading Iraq

[ProudDad]

231. It is stupid of you to ceaselessly defend racist cops (n/t)

[Hosnon]

60. His mistake was first acknowledging that he was not there and does not know the facts, but then

labeling the actions of the police as "stupid".

If you don't know how the police acted, how can you call said actions stupid?

[EFerrari]

64. Because when the police arrest a prominent man who has ID in his own home

they've been stupid?

[Hosnon]

66. Ah, well thanks for clearing that up.

I see now that all I need to do is become a prominent man and I am free of sin!

[EFerrari]

69. You might need to take a logic class, too. n/t

[Hosnon]

71. Done and done (several years ago actually).

Kindly point out the logical error.

[DainBramaged]

73. Did the POLice drop the charges? Said arrest was stoopid.......

[Hosnon]

77. That's it? Charges are dropped for multiple reasons, only one of which is innocence. nt.

[No Elephants]

363. Eferrari posted to you about a prominent man in his own home. You responded to her

as though what she said made no sense because you picked up on prominent, but left out "in his own home." Another poster responded to you about the police dropping charges, saying it was stupid. You replied only about dropping the charges, without addressing how the police department characterized its own reasons. (not stupid, but unfortunate, etc.)

Do you really find that kind of discussion technique effective? If not, I recommend you drop it. It makes it seem as though you omit the most relevant part of a post because you are not able to handle the point actually being made. Not to mention that it makes you seem dishonest.

[EFerrari]

82. A prominent man is not free of sin. He is known.

And unlike the police department in this incident, Skip Gates is NOT known for tantrums of any kind.

In fact, he's nearly 60, he needs a cane and he was ill at the time. Since he identified himself and the police knew there was no burglary in progress, what is left. His behavior? How much of a problem can a lame older man with a breathing problem present to the fighting men of the Cambridge police?

[Hosnon]

83. I have no idea. And I have no idea what happened. And neither does Obama. nt.

[EFerrari]

88. Apparently unlike you, Obama can process information and come to

a reasonable conclusion.

[Hosnon]

96. One cannot reach a reasonable conclusion while also acknowledging

that one does not have all relevant facts (as Obama did).

The reasonable conclusion, in that instance, (especially as POTUS) is not to call one party stupid.

[EFerrari]

110. Actually, you have that backwards. Most careful people

are careful enough to identify what they don't know. But that doesn't preclude anyone from drawing a conclusion from the facts in hand.

And the treatment of Dr. Gates by the Cambridge police was at very best only stupid.

[Hosnon]

113. Reasonable people draw conclusions from unknowns?

That's absurd.

But, yes, reasonable people acknowledge only what they know (i.e., they acknowledge what they don't know).

ETA: I think you misunderstood me. I reasonable person acknowledges what they don't know when drawing his or her conclusions. But a reasonable person cannot, by definition, draw a reasonable conclusion while acknowledging he or she does not know all relevant facts.

[EFerrari]

119. Obama didn't say he didn't know all the relevant facts.

That's your embroidery.

[Hosnon]

123. True, but it's implied. Had he known all relevant facts, it would have been unnecessary to say

anything of the sort.

After all, I don't spend my first few pages of a brief trying to convince a judge that he can trust that what he thinks he sees on a page is what is actually there.

[EFerrari]

124. Wrong again. Obama framed what he knew, ran down the facts

gave his own conclusion and went on to talk about racial profiling. It's about time someone in high office did.

Good for him.

[Hosnon]

132. Except he said he didn't know the facts. Come on...nt.

[EFerrari]

135. No, he didn't say that. I have it TiVo'd. He said, like any careful person would say

that he didn't have ALL the facts. And he followed that up with running down the facts very accurately.

[Hosnon]

137. So you think Obama knows the facts well enough to call the cops' actions stupid?

That is a very high bar.

Two people likely have that level of knowledge: Gates and the arresting officer.

[EFerrari]

142. Apparently the DA also thinks he does too, because he threw out

this bullshit arrest.

lol

[Hosnon]

145. Ever worked with a DA? nt

[EFerrari]

149. Yes, I have, here in this county and for years as an interpreter. n/t

[Hosnon]

151. So you know that "the law" is not the only consideration. nt.

[Hosnon]

180. Due in part to EFerrari, I have changed my mind. nt.

[wtmusic]

364. Amen. nt

[No Elephants]

368. All you have to do is read the police report, from the hand of Oficer

Crowley himself. I am sure by the time he wrote it, he had learned who Gates was. So, I am sure that he made Gates sound as bad as he possibly could. Still, nowhere in the report do you see that Gates committed a crime of any kind. You also see that Crowley was shown ID, proving Gates was entitled to be in that home. And, after that, the officer did not leave, but stayed and escalated the incident, starting with calling the Harvard University Police, by which point Officer Crowley was trespassing. You also see that Officer Crowley never gave his name or badge number, despite being asked several times. And that he never gave Gates his Miranda warnings. That's all you need to know to say Officer Crowley behaved stupidly, which is about what the Cambridge Police spokeswoman said, after it dropped the charges.

Now, she said that it was not Gates's finest moment, either. However, Gates was the one sitting in his own home, minding his own business before Crowley showed up and asked Gates for his ID without telling him why he was asking. So, let's say they were equally hot headed, even though I don't believe that. The cop was still stupid. If treated reasonably, Professor GAtes would have responded reasonably, just as he has done for 58 years.

And thats going only by the police report.

[rhett o rick]

280. Police demand contriteness (if that's a word). If one is belligerent or even argumentative

one faces the prospect of being arrested to be taught a lesson. I am guessing that is what happened. Heavy on the guessing. They had no intention of pressing charges. Arresting someone then dropping the charges is a method used by the police to assert their dominance. Be nice or get arrested.

[EFerrari]

340. Yep. That sounds about right to me. nt

[Abq_Sarah]

70. Apparently, if you have the right connections,

You can berate and race bait police officers who are just doing their job and get congratulated for it.

[Hosnon]

72. I'm not willing to swing that far either. I have no idea whether the cop was "just doing his job".

In fact, there is little doubt in my mind that had the professor been white, this whole incident would have ended with tea and muffins.

[EFerrari]

79. It has nothing to do with connections, but with a public track record.

This man isn't an unknown quantity. The police can predict he's not going to take out a knife. He's Skip Gates and he's been in public life for many years.

And you have no idea what he did or didn't say to the police, do you?

[Hosnon]

81. Exactly. We don't know what was said. Therefore, the appropriate course of action, especially

for a President, is to walk a fine line (e.g., not call the actions of a potentially innocent cop "stupid").

[EFerrari]

84. Nope. The police arrested a well known and revered scholar in his own home.

He had ID and the arrest was thrown out. It was stupid as hell and Obama was right.

Fine line, my @ss. Look for more headlines about your buddies. They're going to regret they did this and for a long time.

[Hosnon]

93. Again, I fail to see how knowing just two facts:

(1) Prof was prominent and (2) Prof had ID, mean that the cops were necessarily stupid (remember, we don't know the facts).

So now I just need to be prominent and in my own home with my ID and I can do anything to a cop that comes by...?

[EFerrari]

98. If you can't look at Skip Gates' ID and figure out he's in his own house,

you're not only stupid, you qualify as a moran.

[Hosnon]

104. Well with that I certainly agree. nt.

[Abq_Sarah]

345. Actually

The Police officer isn't an unknown quantity either. This is the man who was first on the scene and performed CPR in an effort to save Reggie Lewis' life. Sounds like a real racist SOB, doesn't it?

From your many posts on this subject, I get the distinct impression that because he is a police officer and white, you feel it is likely he is a lying racist. Do you understand what that says about you?

[AverageJoe5]

408. Obama flip-flops

A few weeks ago, in response to a reporter's question, Obama angrily claimed that he doesn't talk about an issue until he knows what he is talking about.

And yet, while admitting that he doesn't know all the facts about Gates' arrest, he said the police acted stupidly in this case. How does he know the police acted stupidly?

[No Elephants]

370. If you read the police report and nothing but the police report--but you read it fairly--

you will immediately see what a digusting post you made.

[No Elephants]

361. Not at all. But once a cop establishes that no crime has been committed, it is stupid of that

cop not to leave your home, regardless of whether or not you are prominent. And if you are world famous, it's damned stupid.

[LisaL]

91. His neighbor reported a break in.

What is police supposed to do? Shouldn't they find out if the right person is inside the house, in case it actually was a break in?

[Chemisse]

108. At first I thought the break in report was bogus

And only because 2 black men were at the door of the house. But then I read that they were kicking the door in!! I would have called to report it too.

So the cop comes and demands to see ID. That's exactly what he should have done. What follows is pretty strange, and up for interpretation give the points reported. Was Gates aggressively angry about the incident? Was the cop disrespectful even after he saw that the house was Gates'? I don't think we really have a good picture of how it went down from there, and certainly Obama doesn't either.

Automatically assuming it is racism really does a disservice to those black men who have legitimately been targeted and harrassed in Cambridge.

[EFerrari]

118. There was no report that two black men were kicking a door in. n/t

[Chemisse]

258. Ahh, yeah 'pushed it in' is says

Police say they were simply responding to a call from a woman who suspected a crime was taking place.

When the front door would not open, even with the driver’s help, Ogletree said Gates walked around to the back door, unlocked it, shut off the alarm system, and tried to open the door from the inside. It still did not work, so he went back outside and, with the driver, pushed it in.



http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2009/07/21/racial_talk_swirls_with_gates_arrest/

[Homer Wells]

270. I'm sort of wondering about this woman

who reported this alleged break-in. If she was a neighbor, it stands to reason that she would know Dr. Gates (at least by sight), so why in the world would she report a break-in in the first place. It might be interesting to put that piece in this strange jigsaw puzzle.



:think:

[Demoiselle]

374. The first time I heard this story yesterday, the person who called in

....was described as a "passer-by." Since then, she's become a "neighbor." I have to agree that if Dr. Gates was in his own home and showed ID that indicated who he was and where he lived, then the cop was wrong. Everybody makes mistakes, and this officer may indeed be a good man....but he made a big mistake this time. "Stupid" is a gentle description.
I'm not going to add to the heat here by telling you how I would have described it.

If the black man "caught" in his own home with proper i.d. lived in a poor neighborhood and was NOT a famous man, what do you think the outcome of this story might have been?
Just asking.

[EFerrari]

327. They pushed it in with their shoulder. Nobody kicked a door in. n/t

[CakeGrrl]

112. He presented his ID, AFTER which he was arrested in his own house.

That was the basis for labeling the actions 'stupid'.

[sofa king]

68. He knew some of the facts.

He listed them:

Obama ticked off the reported facts of the Gates case -- starting with Gates apparently forgetting his keys and jimmying the door. Police responded appropriately at first, Obama said.

And it is stupid, on the surface, and I don't see anything that's going to change it underneath. Cops got the usual "black man up to no good call," went to the house, found the black man who lives in the house, and arrested him. Not smart.

[EFerrari]

74. What was amazing was the look on Obama's face when the press was laughing

after he made a joke to the effect that if he tried to jimmy his way into the White House, he'd be shot.

They all laughed and laughed. And he smiled but there was some part of him that didn't think it was funny at all.

[Hosnon]

80. Did he say he'd be shot? I missed it because I was laughing at the mental image of

President Obama with a credit card trying to jimmy a White House door.

[EFerrari]

100. Yes, he did.

[Hosnon]

106. God bless his humor. And one thing is clear to me, had Gates been white, this would not have

happened the way it did. But that doesn't mean that only the cops acted inappropriately (and certainly not obviously "stupid"ly).

[ProudDad]

233. I agree

what the cops did wasn't "stupid".

It was entirely within their job description and training.

They were doing exactly what the system wants them to do...

Protect the rich (White) from the poor (often Black or Brown)...

Act like jackbooted thugs with attitude unless they run across obviously upper class whites...then they get all obsequious as hell.

Assume the little old Black man was in the wrong house -- obviously burglar -- couldn't live HERE!

Yep, not stupid -- Systemic.

[bdamomma]

306. I don't think it was funny either, the media what stupid ass people they are.

He is the President of the United States. He is no chump.

[TuxedoKat]

341. I missed the press conference

I'll have to go back and watch that. It made me sad to read that. Thanks for the insight
and all your comments above in support of Prof. Gates, I agree with you.

[Hosnon]

75. Perhaps. But as the President of the United States, he should have refrained from

passing such a harsh judgment while acknowledging his lack of knowledge.

[RBInMaine]

78. CORRECT !

[EFerrari]

92. Obama knew the facts, he described them just fine. n/t

[Hosnon]

101. "I don't know all the facts." - Obama. nt.

[EFerrari]

116. Not knowing ALL the facts is not the same as not following the reporting

as Obama said he did. And to those of us who have followed the reporting and the facts, it was obvious that Obama did know the facts.

Claiming to not know all the facts is an academic courtesy not to be confused with being uninformed.

[Hosnon]

120. You apparently fail to recognize that all of your "facts" are filtered through the media.

One of the best first hand accounts is the police report. Now, I freely acknowledge that it does not represent "fact", yet you seem to think that the reports of the professor's account are fact...

[EFerrari]

122. Skip Gates identified himself to the Cambridge police

while standing in his own home. Both sides agree on that. At that point, the police either needed to leave or to take a look at his stuck front door to check it for signs of forced entry.

Instead, they continued to treat him as a suspect in a crime that they knew was not happening.

No, I don't fail to reognize anything.

/oops

[Hosnon]

130. I agree, actually. Upon identification, the cops should have left (they would have

done the same had he been white).

I think Gates exhibited a knee-jerk reaction to admittedly culturally (i.e., not necessarily individually) racist behavior that caused the cop (who, again, likely was not being consciously racist) to respond in the way he did. (As reported).

[Trocadero]

192. STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES

[ProudDad]

234. Except unfortunately

he left out some of them...

Like Mr. Gates had just got off a plane ride from China...

Was ill.

Tried his front door but it was stuck. So he went around the house and UNLOCKED the back door, unlocked the front door, came back out front and with the driver, got the door open and went into his home with his bags.

A passer-by calls the cops about "black people with back packs breaking into a house." (so much for "eye witnesses" - notoriously unreliable)

Then the cop shows up -- most probably with that attitude they have when they see or hear a Black man...

And wouldn't believe Mr. Gates could possibly live THERE...

[EFerrari]

250. That's right. He left out all of those things.

But he was talking to the DC press corpse so that just makes him a good editor. :)

[Hosnon]

267. See, those last two "facts" are extremely racist. You do see that, right? nt.

[ProudDad]

367. They demonstrate the systemic racism

that still permeates USAmerican society; especially the police departments.

[sofa king]

125. Fair enough.

Your position is solid enough. He probably shouldn't have said it even if everyone agreed he was correct. I suspect his pronouncement came from looking at what facts he did know and not seeing any other way to explain the situation without guessing that it's stupidity lurking in the shadows. But even if the guess is correct, he's going to take flak for it.

This fellow slips up rarely enough that it's something of a pleasure to try to figure out what he's thinking when he does. Just dropping that word, whatever the context, is probably a bad idea as President. I wonder, will he ever use that word publicly again? It would be interesting to see him try to avoid it--after all, the Republicans will be campaigning again next year.

[Hosnon]

133. In a sense, I'm glad this happened because it gave Obama a national forum to speak

about this type of thing.

To be sure, there is a difference between how the cops treat white and black people (generally).

[emilyg]

172. Bingo.

[No Elephants]

357. You don't think he had read the police report? Not a good assumption.

[No Elephants]

359. Simple. He knew that the cop did not leave once he established that

Professor Gates had every right to be inside that home. Not leaving at that point was stupid. Legally, the cop became a trespasser at that point. He also probably knew the police department's description of the event, and more. But knowing the cop did not leave suffices to say "stupid."

BTW, he said he did not know all the facts. That is not the same as knowing no facts at all. I'd be willing to bet that, before Obama met the press last night, he knew three times more about this than anyone else, excluding the cop and Gates.

[LisaL]

86. So, Obama admits he doesn't know all the facts, yet claims

police acted stupidly? Hello? If he doesn't know all the facts, how does he know the police acted "stupidly?"
Frankly I think someone shouldn't make statements like this if that someone admits he doesn't know all the facts.

[EFerrari]

94. Obama ran down the incident very well. He said he didn't know ALL

the facts, just as anyone who wasn't there doesn't know them ALL.

But unlike the apologists for abusive police on this board, he did knew enough of them to accurately describe the situation and to come to the conclusion that the police acted stupidly. The DA seems to agree, because the charges were thrown out.

[LisaL]

99. I think there is a difference between people running their mouth on a

message board and the president of the United States.

[EFerrari]

105. President Obama was careful to say he didn't know ALL the facts.

Just as any thoughtful person would have done. He didn't say he didn't know enough of them not to have a view because he obviously did know the case and the details well.

[RBInMaine]

102. You have selective hearing. How does being fair-minded equate to excusing police abuse? Calm down.

[EFerrari]

107. LOL. Does that work on people you know?

Telling them to calm down when you run out of an argument?

[Hosnon]

109. Regardless of the strength of my argument, "calm down" is usually

a "winner".

(I know it wasn't directed to me but I wanted to answer.)

[EFerrari]

111. "Calm down" is not an argument. It's an evasion. n/t

[Hosnon]

115. Really? Hmm...nt.

[Dystopian]

146. I've read this entire thread...

Thank you for hanging in there. I'm so mentally exhausted after reading all of this..
You're right on all points....just my opinion...but add it to all the others who agree with you, in thought or text....

Big time racial profiling....these cops didn't know who he was as they're a bunch of thugs, is all I have to add.
Not familiar with academia ....just porn, gun and comic books.....

peace~

[EFerrari]

Thanks, Dystopian.

:hi:

[Dystopian]

201. You're quite welcome...

:hi:

We seem to meet up in the same type of threads...
Common bond.

peace~

[Hosnon]

148. Curiously, what do you think of the rest of us who, despite disagreeing, are

being intellectually honest?

[EFerrari]

162. Doesn't that depend on when you stop beating your wives? n/t

[Hosnon]

164. How old are you?

Emotionally/mentally, not physically.

[EFerrari]

166. Old enough not to be manipulated by amateurs, thanks. n/t

[Hosnon]

168. Then we agree! Thank goodness for something. nt.

[Dystopian]

199. I don't understand....

Are you saying that those who don't agree with you are not being intellectually honest?
There is a history here, the racial profiling, which was addressed. It's common knowledge, it's nationwide...and it's shameful. The cop who arrested him stated that he won't apologize, and that he followed proper procedure. He did not follow proper procedure...

We're sharing opinions...and I have a very strong opinion on the topic of race relations in this country.
I don't believe racism will ever end...it's often silent, and I'm truly amazed that I've lived to see a black president. Yes, we've come a long way...but sadly, racism is part of the American way. I admire Obama, as he seems very at ease discussing the issue...

peace~

[Hosnon]

268. No. I'm saying that those who don't agree with you are not necessarily

being intellectually dishonest. And in my case, not actually being intellectually dishonest.

[Fearless]

400. You do know that one of the cops was black right?

[Dystopian]

409. Yes, aware...

I've read every report/article possible...

Your link caught my eye...had to click!;)


peace~

[RBInMaine]

127. It's a repeated assertion of your emotional and less than rational response to this matter.

[EFerrari]

136. Right. It's an ad hom, not an argument.

But, nice try.

[Hosnon]

138. Are you so blinded by emotion that you can't see that we are both agreeing with you here? nt

[EFerrari]

140. LOL

[Hosnon]

144. I guess so. "Calm down" is not only a non-argument but is ineffective and

counter-productive.

LOLOLOLOLOL

[RBInMaine]

126. I just watched it again. Here is what I think Obama means:

He says that he doesn't know enough facts to conclude that the cops had any racial motive or that this particular case was a case of profiling (which was good). In fact, he actually says that quite clearly, especially as he notes that this (and many such cases as he further notes) could well have been a case of honest police intentions: they responded to the initial complaint as they should have, etc. HOWEVER, he says the cop then acted "stupidly" because he arrested the guy, AFTER he had shown ID to indicate it was his own house, for "disorderly conduct" (which as he notes was later dropped). It seems Obama thinks THAT reason for the arrest was "stupid" (or absurd may be a better word) because he says "anyone (Gates in this case) would be upset," and the arrest occurred at the guy's OWN house AFTER he produced ID. Then he goes into the larger issue of racial profiling, but again saying that THIS incident may well not have been a racial incident. So Obama certainly gives the cops the benefit of the doubt on racial profiling. He is saying that the cop's arrest wasn't necessarily racist, but was "stupid" nonetheless since he was somehow arresting a guy at his own house after he had shown ID.

BUT, still BAD to use the word "stupid". It invites a big "reverse racism" can of crap and a HUGE distraction to what otherwise was a SPOT ON news conference. HE NEEDS TO CLEAN THIS UP AND FAST !!

[chascarrillo]

128. I admit that I don't know all the facts about you...

... but I do know that you're behaving stupidly.

[RBInMaine]

129. Pretty stupid post.

[Hosnon]

134. Oh boy...let's not "trumpet" this type of behavior please. nt.

[RBInMaine]

141. Sorry. Small joke.

[ProudDad]

235. Weren't you listening

he said he knew Skip Gates and knew that he wouldn't have reacted without provocation.

Why do you question President Obama and his friends? Were you there?

[Moochy]

131. Hey some annoying DU'ers disagree with Obama!

You all know what to do! MARGINALIZE!

[EFerrari]

139. LOL

That sounds like a butter substitute.

:rofl:

[mnhtnbb]

143. 4th Amendment to the Constitution--read it here

“ The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

I'll take President Obama's word as a former professor of Constitutional Law. The police officer
acted stupidly. My guess (not with any legal qualifications) is that once Gates showed ID,
any probable cause disappeared to suspect the guy didn't have a right to be in his own home.

[LisaL]

147. If somebody actually broke in, Prof. Gates would probably want

police to show up and help, no?
There was a report of a break in. For all the policeman knew, the owner could have been held hostage or something.

[EFerrari]

152. Right up to the moment when Gates identified himself as the owner.

And not a second after that.

[backscatter712]

158. Yep. He was arrested AFTER he fully identified himself.

He presented his driver's license and Harvard ID, then the cops continued to be pricks and arrested him because he was "yelling", even though Gates was sick and couldn't yell even if he wanted to.

I told you the cops would be caught in a lie.

Obama was absolutely right to describe the cops' actions as "behaving stupidly." When he presented his ID, the cops should have looked at the ID, then said "Oh, I see you live here, Mr. Gates. Sorry to bother you." but I guess they just couldn't let it go without arresting a brown person.

[EFerrari]

160. I was so happy to see Obama not minimize the abuse black and brown people

endure. :)

[seaglass]

262. Actually either Gates was caught in a lie or we have both the police officer and a witness lying.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/20143900/detail.html

Bill Carter, the man who snapped a photograph of Gates being led away in handcuffs, said police officers were calm and that Gates was "slightly out of control" and "agitated" when he was arrested.

"The officers around kind of calmed him down," Carter said. "I heard him yelling -- Mr. Gates yelling. I didn't hear anything that he was saying so I couldn't say that he was belligerent."

I am not saying that Gates was not justified in yelling but he has repeatedly stated that he didn't and couldn't. I am open to further information if another witness that was there comes forward and states that he wasn't yelling - so far the "7" witnesses seem to have remained mostly silent.

[TheCML]

153. I expect...

The Police to act professional and when they are shown proper ID believe it. But I mean we cant take any chances right? For all we know the real owner of the house could have been an Alien sent from Planet X put there in the witness protection program and the professor was inches away from putting us all in imminent danger if he was found out.

[Moochy]

157. You know things

[No Elephants]

381. No one is faulting the cop for responding to the call. However, it very soon became obvious that

Prof Gates was rightfully in the home and not in need of help. At that point, Officer Crowley ceased to have any legitimate business on Prof. Gates property and should have left. And when he did not leave he became a trespasser. Why is that so hard to get?

[tblue37]

150. He's right. nt

[2whitedogs]

163. Uh, yeah

The cop just exposed Cambridge to civil liability--he's stupid alright. Even assuming everything in his report is true, he clearly violated Dr. Gates' 1st and 4th amendment rights, even the thoroughly wittled down rights the SCOTUS still recognize. He entered Gates' house without consent or warrant, and nothing like exigent circumstances are present: that a black guy was seen forcing the door and he saw a black guy inside is equally consistent with possibility that the guy forcing door is the resident as the possibility that he is burglar, and burglars usually try to hide, not come to the door, also no evidence of danger of violence, destruction of evidence or flight--jsut put officers at the rear and front of house until a neutral magistrate can deny the warrant. Luring someone outside his house doesn't mean that his criticism of a government agent's performance of his duties is any less core speech the First Amendment was designed to protect. As an aside, it's worth mentioning that failing to provide government issued ID when asked by law enforcement cannot be a crime even when on the street, much less when in one's own home--see Kolender v. Lawson. When Dr. Gates initially (if that's even true) refused to provide ID, that should have ended the whole thing. It causes me great ire to hear comments about how Dr. Gates acted rudely, uncivilly, etc. If so, so what? I'm an a@#&*^e too sometimes and that's no crime. Jerks who stand up for their rights are preferable any day to pleasant milquetoasts who don't, IMHO.

I would hope people here of all places would get these issues. I really want the Democratic party to be the party of freedom and civil liberties, but so often that's just not the case. For congressional democrats, dealing with race and the criminal justice system means hate crimes legislation to add to the c4500 federal crimes already on the books: an unneeded bullet for an over-full arsenal. Lessening penalties and giving federal criminal defendants some procedural rights, or statutorily expanding protections to the accused just aren't even on the table in a country with the largest per capital and actual prison population, constituted disproportionately by minorities. It was also disappointing to hear congressional democrats prior to the Sotomayor hearings talking about how she had the perfect resume: prosecutor, civil attorney, and judge, when the Supreme Court so desperately needs someone with criminal defense experience on it. I didn't pay much attention to the confirmation hearings, but I'd eat my hat if congressional concern regarding protection of the rights of criminal defendant was ever even expressed.

I feel sorry for what Dr. Gates has had to endure, but frankly am glad it happened. Civil liberties and the gross defects of our criminal justice system are in the national eye in a way they haven't been for a long time, and we all owe the man a debt of gratitude because of it. I hope he sues the bastards.

[Kolesar]

257. Welcome to our forum!

:hi: I missed the Sotomayor hearings too.

[clixtox]

302. A sincere welcome to DU, and not just because I have had Samoyeds!

Your perspective is perfectly correct, IMHO. Thank you

[Fearless]

176. What EVERYONE hasn't realized....

The property in question was a rental property. Therefore the ID he showed more than likely had a different address on it. Adding belligerence and the neighbor's call, it's no wonder he was arrested.


Neither person did anything really wrong. The cop was doing his job. And he arrested a man who was being uncooperative. Race has nothing to do with it. Charges were dropped, as they usually are in these instances.

[EFerrari]

182. No, his license showed the correct address. n/t

[Fearless]

215. Cite?

[EFerrari]

218. His lawyer's statement:

http://www.theroot.com/views/lawyers-statement-arrest-henry-louis-gates-jr

[Fearless]

350. Perhaps an outside source. I'm not one to put creedance in what lawyers say off the record.

[EFerrari]

352. The identification he provided is not an issue and he was not arrested

for failing to identify himself or for breaking and entering.

[Fearless]

382. Right. So it's a non factor. Very good... Then why was he arrested...

Look at the police officer's record. This case is a joke.

[EFerrari]

383. Of course it's a joke. The mayor has apologized to Gates. nt

[Fearless]

387. I said that the case of racism is a joke based on his prior and current record on race relations...

Nothing else.

[EFerrari]

388. Oh, brother. Take it up with the NAACP. They also issued

a press release. I hope these racist assholes are followed by this case for the rest of their careers. They finally messed with the wrong black man.

[firedupdem]

185. Wrong. His address was the same and he was in his own home.

Why this mess is being defended here is disgusting. He's an old man, on a cane in his own damn home!

[Fearless]

216. Cite yourself. And it was a rental property... hence the neighbor not knowing him.

[EFerrari]

219. Wasn't a neighbor but an employee of a campus alum mag

who worked near by.

[fascisthunter]

318. so in essence the police took the word of an idiot over the owner of the house

[EFerrari]

330. Looks like it. n/t

[Fearless]

349. The temporary renter of a house. Fact check.

[Ken Burch]

426. She had to have known who he was if she worked at Harvard

Maybe she had some sort of a score to settle.

[Fading Captain]

187. Obama just turned the health care battle into a two months

of BS about racial profiling.

[David Zephyr]

189. There is racial profiling. It exists. It's there. It has to be pointed out.

I support the President. He didn't misspeak. He spoke from experience and knowledge.

Obama did not say that police are stupid. That's the knee jerk response that those with racial baggage hear. What he said was these particular police acted "stupidly".

It's still very tough being a racial minority in America. I'm gay and have a mixed family. I live it every single day.

[tj2001]

202. >50% cops are ok. The rest are thugs and liars

I've seen cops harass and arrest people of color for no good reason, and I've come to the conclusion that there are many cops out there who are just bullies, assholes and sadists without any human decency, compassion, or common sense.

[Divine Discontent]

204. let's be honest - more like 20... lol actually it's something we truly can't know the real figure

but, wow, it's getting hard to find the good ones. They're probably half or so, I agree, but the buttheads sure make themselves heard more - sorta like the loony Limbaugh types...

[ProudDad]

236. And more coming

when those poor PTSD'd out bastards from Iraq and Afghanistan start flooding the Police Forces with their disease.

[Divine Discontent]

203. nice to see him step into it and speak out, imo... but...

the federal government acts "stupidly" in firing one Gay/Lesbian individual after another from the US military for being outed...

I understand his political wrangling with Congress on DADT, and his goal for doing so - but nothing is MORE stupid than being fired for being queer! Talk about old time bigotry!

And thank God I'm not in the military and fired for that reason - I'd be thrown in the stockades for telling everyone up to my CIC that they're sick bigots!

So, seeing him step into this, makes me wonder why he hasn't stepped into commenting on other injustices, like Siegelman, and one that he directly is responsible for as the boss of the military.

[Piewhacket]

209. Kpete: Obama didn't say that. Salon deliberately misstates.

Obama said what he said beautifully. He is a master of language and
his brain is a marvel and wired beautifully. There is no need to
(inaccurately) paraphrase him. Salon should have reported what he said,
not deliberately misstated it.

I like to think of myself as a man of integrity, and do not like it
when "my side" becomes as bigoted and dissembling as the "other side".

Salon, this unattributed article is improperly written, and shame for it.
Such tactics are despicable, and it loses us the high ground and for what?
some cheap, illusory, and very temporary advantage. the price is to high.

Kpete, you are usually more careful so I give you the benefit, but
if you check his response (in the last question of his interview) you
will discover that Obama did NOT state that: gates' arrest in his own home
is a reminder that racism "still haunts us."

Salon should get a nastygram, and change their ways, or be prepared to
earn a rep they shouldn't want.

[EFerrari]

220. Obama did say they acted stupidly and he was biting his tongue, at that.

[Piewhacket]

319. Of course. Salon could say that, alas they... ahem, lied about what Obama said.

When the M$M does that, we condemn it.
They should be condemned, so all men will know them
for what they are, biased political propaganda machines,
not unbiased reporters of information they so hypocritically
pretend to be.

Not saying propaganda isn't part of the political discourse,
or even that its uninteresting, only that false information
is the means of manipulating a false action, thus
promoting cycles of violence and injustice.

By claiming Obama connected the arrest with racism, the Salon
article stated as fact what was demonstratively false,
couched in the cloth of fair and unbiased reporting.

It is false, defamatory, and Salon shouldn't do it.
Or DU should find other sources for our articles.
We should be above that, or I have found
myself in the wrong forum.

For I believe those who would would seek the aid of others in correcting
injustice, as opposed to aid in promulgating it, should stand
upright and show clean hands.

Thanks for your comment, EFerrari, I always enjoy your
thoughtful posts.

[wisteria]

210. I would agree that if the facts are as they being reported now, that the police

officer overreacted when he made the arrest. It seems the entire discussion inside the home was heated.

[krabigirl]

214. Awesome. I hope he doesn't "clarify." Time to have a serious discussion about police abuse of power.

[lexanman]

217. that is all I need to know

Police say Gates yelled at the officer, accused him of racial bias and refused to calm down after the officer demanded Gates show him identification to prove he lived there. Gates denies that he yelled at the officer, other than to repeatedly ask his name and badge number, and he says he readily turned over his driver's license and Harvard ID to prove his residence and identity

"accusing him of racial bias and refusing to calm down" is a crime, when in his own home, AFTER showing ID? Racist assholes need to be thrown off this website. The more facts come out, the more the racist fuckfaces and cop apologists are being exposed.

[SmoothOperator357]

228. Cops

I watched an episode of cops where a white motorist tore the ticket up called the cop all kinds of names and nothing happened at all, no arrests nothing. I am not saying that cops only treat blacks poorly that is not true at all I have seen videos on you tube that contradict that notion all together. What I do know is that the police feel that they are untouchable. Not all of them obviously, but the ones who are bad are really bad. You have the right to question authority in this country as loudly as you want as long as you are not being violent you can disagree with the powers that be. Calling them names is no reason for them to arrest you. In the 60's the hippies called the police the fuzz and pigs and they called them worse than that, but unless they were violent they were not generally arrested for being obtuse. Finally ask your self this question if Professor Gates who has no history of belligerent behavior and was in his own home had been white and treated this way no matter the color of the cop wouldn't there be moral outrage that a person of his stature was treated so poorly. Maybe the story would not have been so big had it not involved race? I don't have the answer but I know that the police being arrogant and just being able to railroad you is a problem that persists in this country and needs to be addressed. I know that in a free society the freedom to disagree is sewn into the very fabric of this country.

[lexanman]

232. Race in this particular case

has everything to do with it. That is a separate issue from police abuses in general. I like your post.

[EFerrari]

237. Welcome to DU, SmoothOperator357.

One of my oldest friends is the originator of "Cops". He wouldn't have filmed that incident because Dr. Gates didn't take his shirt off.

:)

[No Elephants]

384. And how do you know Gates didn't take his shirt off and put it back on? Were you tthere? (j/k)

[EFerrari]

391. LOL!

[Moochy]

323. "Racist Assholes need to be thrown off this website"

But where would the core of DU be without its permanent contingent of cops-can-do-no-wrong knee-jerk authoritarian racist apologists?

[BOG PERSON]

224. Obama was being pretty darn charitable in describing it as "stupid" behavior IMO

[EFerrari]

238. When he said it, he looked very much as if he wanted to say something else. n/t

[backscatter712]

239. And people wonder why I have a venomous hatred for police officers...

Amazing how when a few facts come out, such as Gates's statement, his lawyer's statement, the fact that Gates was sick from an infection that ensured he couldn't yell if he wanted to, the fact that he was an old man with a cane, the fact that he was arrested AFTER he produced ID for the officers...

and the fucking pigs couldn't just let it go, noooooo, they had to arrest him, and lie their asses off in the police report to make it look like an episode of the TV show COPS.

Every single fucking day, I see a new story about a pig abusing his power. Sometimes, a lower-level abuse - an arrest, or a trumped up ticket. Sometimes a person gets mauled or killed because of police abuses.

I cannot respect police officers anymore. I can't even fucking talk to them anymore. Too many of them have turned into violent thugs with contempt for Constitutional rights and civil liberties.

[eridani]

254. Former police chief Norm Stamper wrote a very good book on the violence in American

--police culture Breaking Ranks. It doesn't have to be that way, as one of the posters who has lived in Britain for awhile pointed out. They do have something of a world-wide rep for a public service culture, at least per that old joke about European heaven and European hell.

In Euopean heaven, the cops are British, the cooks are French and the automotive engineers are Greman. In European hell, the cops are German, the cooks are British, and the automotive engineers are French.

[Ken Burch]

358. Ironic that Stamper would write about police violence,

Having overseen a huge amount of it when it was inflicted on protesters in Seattle in 1998.

[eridani]

422. He came to Jesus after retirement

He is now a frequent presenter for Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, a group that also tends to be dominated by retirees. It's pretty major when a cop still working someplace in any way criticizes police culture.

[craigmatic]

241. Obama told the truth. It's too bad it took for this to happen to someone he knew for Obama to speak

out on police and race. We give local and state police too much power in this country and that allows them to literally get away with murder everyday. This is not a racial issue with Obama because if it had been just some average black guy on the street they wouldn't have asked him about it and even if they had he wouldn't have given a straight answer. This is a class/connections issue.

[Ken Burch]

246. This is the kind of thing President Obama should be saying often

And it's a truly embarrassing thing that it would have weakened his chances for winning if he'd said things like this during the campaign. It was never legitimate for any white person to say "get over it" to any person of color in this country.

[watrwefitinfor]

260. Who was the woman who asked the question?

And what news organization is she with? I missed that.

Wat

[bdamomma]

308. Lynn Sweet asked the question

http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/bio-sweet.article

[watrwefitinfor]

328. Thank you. :-) n/t

[laureloak]

273. Obama should have withheld comment on this one.

Let the story unfold.

I hope police continue to respond to calls of possible burglaries in my neighborhood. If I'm breaking into my own home I will cheerfully comply with requests to ID myself.

[EFerrari]

312. The story has already unfolded. The charges were dropped and the mayor

apologized to Dr. Gates.

[laureloak]

362. Too quick to make assumptions on everyone's part.

Everybody involved was right yet wrong IMO.

Obama appears to generally see things from a more objective viewpoint. I wish he had just stayed out of it. His comments took the focus off health care when we need it so badly. He really shot himself in the foot this time.

[D23MIURG23]

274. And he is right. n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

277. that is accurate, if a bit of an understatement.

[ehrnst]

294. Here's an email with the facts from Charles Ogletree on Monday:

Brief Statement on Behalf of Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr.

This brief statement is being submitted on behalf of my client, friend, and colleague, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr. This is a statement concerning the arrest of Professor Gates. On July 16th, 2009, Professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr., 58, the Alphonse Fletcher University Professor of Harvard University, was headed from Logan airport to his home at 17 Ware Street in Cambridge after spending a week in China, where he was filming his new PBS documentary entitled “Faces of America”. Professor Gates was driven to his home by a driver for a local car company. Professor Gates attempted to enter his front door, but the door was damaged. Professor Gates then entered his rear door with his key, turned off his alarm, and again attempted to open the front door. With the help of his driver they were able to force the front door open, and then the driver carried Professor Gates’s luggage into his home.


Professor Gates immediately called the Harvard Real Estate office to report the damage to his door and requested that it be repaired immediately. As he was talking to the Harvard Real Estate office on his portable phone in his house, he observed a uniformed officer on his front porch. When Professor Gates opened the door, the officer immediately asked him to step outside. Professor Gates remained inside his home and asked the officer why he was there. The officer indicated that he was responding to a 911 call about a breaking and entering in progress at this address. Professor Gates informed the officer that he lived there and was a faculty member at Harvard University. The officer then asked Professor Gates whether he could prove that he lived there and taught at Harvard. Professor Gates said that he could, and turned to walk into his kitchen, where he had left his wallet. The officer followed him. Professor Gates handed both his Harvard University identification and his valid Massachusetts driver’s license to the officer. Both include Professor Gates’s photograph, and the license includes his address.

Professor Gates then asked the police officer if he would give him his name and his badge number. He made this request several times. The officer did not produce any identification nor did he respond to Professor Gates’s request for this information. After an additional request by Professor Gates for the officer’s name and badge number, the officer then turned and left the kitchen of Professor Gates’s home without ever acknowledging who he was or if there were charges against Professor Gates. As Professor Gates followed the officer to his own front door, he was astonished to see several police officers gathered on his front porch. Professor Gates asked the officer’s colleagues for his name and badge number. As Professor Gates stepped onto his front porch, the officer who had been inside and who had examined his identification, said to him, “Thank you for accommodating my earlier request,” and then placed Professor Gates under arrest. He was handcuffed on his own front porch.


Professor Gates was taken to the Cambridge Police Station where he remained for approximately 4 hours before being released that evening. Professor Gates’s counsel has been cooperating with the Middlesex District Attorneys Office, and the City of Cambridge, and is hopeful that this matter will be resolved promptly. Professor Gates will not be making any other statements concerning this matter at this time.


Professor Charles Ogletree

Jesse Climenko Professor of Law

Executive Director, Charles Hamilton Houston Institute for Race and Justice

Harvard Law School

Cambridge, Massachusetts

[bdamomma]

310. explain something to me why did they arrest him, he showed his ID?

[pleah]

300. I agree with the Pres. on this one. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

313. not the words i would have used, but Obama is still right, of course...

[fascisthunter]

317. he was right...

cops need to be cool headed and not use their authority the way these cops did. And I'm not surprised to hear that the cops will not even make an apology... until cops who supposed to serve and protect the tax payers who pay their wages, start swallowing their pride, they will be despised and mistrusted. The Police Department itlsef cultivates this fraternity like environment which makes some idiot cops feel as if they can do no wrong.

Racism is a live and well in America... lot's of denial on this website. I'm glad the majority here isn't defending these assholes.

White guy living in Boston, right next to Cambridge. I know about racial profiling in Cambridge.


BTW - Obama's statement made me proud to be an American!

[EFerrari]

331. The NAACP has issued a statement demanding they change

their procedures. The topic has now exploded and I've read that RW radio in the Boston area is going nuts.

[fascisthunter]

333. yup... and it's all we have here for radio... all right wing

they buy up the media and force us dems to listen to their shit endlessly. If the GOP didn't have so much money at their disposal, they would be even more irrelevent than they are now. It's like watching a cat puffing its fur up to appear more dominant.

[kestrel91316]

335. What Obama said.

[Aramchek]

353. he's wholly correct

[ProudDad]

365. Skip Gates and the Post-Racial Project

The Cambridge police and Professor Gates tell somewhat different versions of the story. But both sides agree that Gates came home to find his front door jammed. He used his key to enter by the back door. He and his driver then pushed at the front door until it opened. Witnessing this, someone called the police and indicated there may be a breaking-and-entering in progress. While Gates was on the phone with a property management company a police officer arrived. The officer requested identification. Gates produced it. Even after ascertaining that Gates had not illegally entered the property, the officer arrested him for disorderly conduct. The police report asserts Gates yelled and behaved aggressively. Gates denies this. The charges have been dropped. In short, Gates was arrested even though the police officer was fully aware that Gates lived in the home.

In a moment of overzealous policing a young officer in Cambridge managed to handcuff and detain the living embodiment of post-racial possibility.

And although Gates maintains "I thought the whole idea that America was post-racial and post-black was laughable from the beginning," as if in a testament to his apolitical sensibilities Gates said in an interview to TheRoot.com "I would sooner have believed the sky was going to fall from the heavens than I would have believed this could happen to me."

It is hard to imagine many other African American men who would indicate such surprise. Even President Obama has spoken of the difficulty in hailing a cab and First Lady Michelle Obama has expressed her understanding of black men's vulnerability to random violence. But Gates seems genuinely surprised and deeply hurt. His sense of violation and humiliation evokes great empathy, but also some incredulity about his astonishment with racial bias in the criminal justice system.

I like and respect Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Although we have had intellectual and political disagreements he has always welcomed dissent and encouraged individuality. Our personal connection is not why I was so devastated to see his mug shot or images of him handcuffed on his front porch. I was not even distressed because of class implications that reasoned, "If this can happen to a Harvard professor then no one is safe."

My distress is squarely rooted in feeling that I watched the police handcuff American possibility.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion/454282/skip_gates_and_the_post_racial_project

[EFerrari]

390. I felt exactly the same way about that snapshot and posted about it.

American hope, handcuffed.

[Gator_Matt]

366. Reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Bart gets run over by Mr. Burns

At trial, Bart's story is one extreme while Mr. Burn's is the other. Neither is true.

[Fearless]

399. Because they were imposed on a greedy lawyer and greed respectively?

[Liberation Angel]

377. Problem: Police have altered their report and changed things to cover up misconduct of officer

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8546202#8546288

That is my reading of the reports.

The cop acted stupidly. The original report shows that.

The cops changed it.

The cops acted stupidly again.

Gates has a nice settlement coming.

Unfortunately the bigots and stupid "whites" will still think Obama hates cops. Rethugs will rant about Obama's "stupid" remark which "attacks cops"

Ethnic hatred and bigotry has been a problem in Boston forever.

The cop was the one engaging in tumultuous behavior and the cops created the disturbance.

I believe that if Gates were not African American that the local woman would never have called the cops. So it was "racist" and stupid from th gitgo and Gates was right t be pissed and indignant

[Panhandle Dem]

386. It saddens me to no end the contempt and hate being shown

against police officers in this forum. As both a former police officer and police administrator it makes me sad to see the villification of the officer involved in this incident.

The bottom line is that this was a Burglary in Progress call! Forget color for one moment and realize that the officer had no facts when he showed up at a Burglary in Progress call and made contact with a possible intruder in the home. Period. This was not some leisurely visit to a known persons house. Stop for one moment and look at what burglars do to people. You only need look at the recent burglary/home invasion in Pensacola Florida to see what burglars are capable of! Take another moment and see how many cops have been killed in the last few years responding to "routine calls" for service.

According to some of the responses to this thread, while I was a police officer I was: A Clan member, A racist POS Cop, A badge sniffing rotten cop... anyway, I'm sure you get the point.

Police Bad- Professor Good. No questions asked and full facts not needed. This is the type of hyperbole I would expect from a Rethug site.

From everything I've read about this the officer was in a no win situation from the time he stepped onto Gates porch. At the end of the day the sad fact is that sometimes people have to be arrested for disorderly conduct no matter who they are or what the color of their skin is. If you are being disorderly then you are being disorderly.

But alas, the charge was dropped. However, in my opinion, it was dropped because the department got scared not because the charge wouldn't have stuck. At least the union is backing the officer now that his superiors have abandoned him.

Now... Feel free to burn me down for looking past race and dealing with this incident for what it was. A BURGLARY IN PROGRESS WITH A POSSIBLE INTRUDER STILL INSIDE. At least I can say I've walked in that cops shoes. But I'm sure the days I put my life on the line as a cop don't allow me to have an opinion since I'm male and white.

[EFerrari]

389. You want to defend racist cops who turn around and lie

to cover up their abuses, that's your choice.

And this whole "looking past race" bs is laughable. It sounds so reasonable until you figure out that race plays a much bigger part in American law enforcement than any of us want to know. As it did in this case.

I'll defend my own guys against anyone anytime BECAUSE THEY ARE FINE COPS, not racist bullies with a badge.

[Panhandle Dem]

397. Okay EFerrari, You defend "FINE" cops...

You mention defending your own guys. Can I then assume you are a cop? If so, how exactly do you look into the hearts and minds of your own guys to tell that they are not racists? Do you have some gift to divine their intentions. Gimme' a break.

Or maybe you've met the officer that arrested Gates. Maybe you know him personally. Maybe you have evidence that he is indeed a racist. If that is the case we can put this argument to bed now. I might even have to eat a little crow.

You say my argument about looking past race is laughable. Meaning what? Upstanding law enforcement officers don't exist? Race can never be ignored? There can never be a fair outcome when cops and citizens of different races interact. Who is the racist with logic like that?

You are right, race does play a part in law enforcement, I'll give you that. But how it plays a part and to what extent is not absolute.

[EFerrari]

401. It's common sense. The cops in my precinct would NEVER

have made that arrest. They're professionals. They have a relationship with this neighborhood. You don't need to be Miss Cleo to know our local guys are good. They DO IT every day. You don't need a mirror into their souls or Kreskin on a speed dial. They conduct themselves as members of this community which is diverse and straddles both working class and middle class neighborhoods. They would have taken his information, considered the prem secured and been on their way.

But let's get back to this bad arrest. This man, who is not only disabled but who was also having trouble with obstructed breathing, was no threat to these people. They should have gone to lunch the moment he provided his ID. Period. Instead, they did "ruin his day" and they let themselves and their department in for a world of hurt. Not a good result.

[Panhandle Dem]

405. I should have known... Just a Poser

Your cops are professionals. You have no bad cops in your neighborhood. All interactions in your neighborhood end up fair and balanced. Riiight.

I should have known not to tangle with a person that has all day to answer DU threads...

[EFerrari]

406. What am I posing as? A resident of my precinct?

LOL

That's hilarious. Yes, I am posing as someone who lives in my neighborhood. :)

[Panhandle Dem]

407. Sorry for taking a cheap shot

The bottom line is that I've been there and done that. I'm a realist. I know some of my guys weren't fair and balanced. I know that some of them were racists. But I was a cop in the deep south and being male and white there wasn't easy. I had to deal with people every day that thought they knew what was in my mind because of who I was and where I worked. In the end, I'm proud of the way I conducted myself on the job. I don't want kudos or thanks for what I did and how I did it. I just ask that I not be maligned because of the color of MY skin.

As for your neighborhood being perfect... sorry, can't buy it. But if you feel it is then that's all that matters.

[EFerrari]

420. I appreciate that as much as someone who wasn't there

and didn't do that job can. I could never do that job.

And I don't think our guys out of Taraval Station are perfect. But they are part of the community and that's already pretty damn good considering all the issues that pull a group of cops and a neighborhood in opposite directions.

[Panhandle Dem]

423. I think our dialog is a perfect example of how egos

can clash. Whether that was the case in Cambridge we might never know.

As for Taraval Station, it sounds like you have a great community policing model and others should look to it for direction.

Stay passionate, I know I will.

[msanthrope]

416. Then maybe this isn't the board for you. n/t

[Panhandle Dem]

424. Not sure what that means. No opposing view point allowed?

[Ndovu]

392. Police Thugs Terrorize Blacks, Whites, Asians, Latinos

Police thuggery has been around too long and with the mainstream media sleeping with police department nationwide so they can get their inside scoop, 99 percent of police abuse will never be reported by the Big Media unless a video surfaces, (think Rodney King,) or the wide scale abuses that are all to obvious to whitewash come out, such as the infamous Rampart Division Scandal in Los Angeles.

If it were not for President Obama taking notice Professor Gates would have been scoffed at as just another 'bitter arrestee hell bent on revenge,' that has lied profusely to besmirch the good name of a "well respected officer." Of course this cop is said to be ‘well respected,’ aren’t they all? Seems anytime a cop accused of wrongful actions, brother & sister officers, and police unions come to his aid with untold, heroic stories of helping old ladies, rescuing kittens, and handing out Halloween candy to inner city kids, and the story is always the same; "Officer such and such is a HIGHLY Respected Officer."

Those who have never had an encounter with the police, will never know how they are trained in "TESTILYING," as per Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz's own words, nor know of the secretive "little bag of dirty blue tricks," police use to escalate most situations involving the public, such as in your face screaming, and profanities, shoving, tapping their holster to imply a deadly threat, and felony assault to force an purely instinctive reaction from unsuspecting citizens so the officer can justify a severe beating, arrest, and outright murder in some cases.

Police thuggery is, and has been widespread from coast to coast and for far too long. Visiting Omaha, Nebraska this year?

Professor Gates, do not accept any apology from this cop, sue the son of a b..ch. Any apology coming from this guy's mouth is nothing more than "covering one's ass," afterward his brothers & sisters in blue will carry him on their shoulders to the biggest party Cambridge has had in years, and police departments all over the USA will be emboldened not only to continue with business as usual, but instead up the ante'. If you think the jubilee over OJ Simpson’s (bogus) innocent verdict was loud, if this cop, and the Cambridge Police dept. are given a 'free pass,' on this one, expect triumphant thugs in blue to be discharging their firearms indiscriminately into the air, and the biggest drunken victory celebration since VE Day in 1945.

[TankLV]

393. I wouldn't have been so "charitable" - he was a "FUCKING RACIST PIG"

let's not quibble here...

[RayStar]

410. Jerk Cop

There was no reason for this to be blown up like it is now. If the cop had been raised to respect his elders, we would not be here now.

[Zavulon]

412. If he didn't know all the facts, Obama acted stupidly by commenting.

Strictly from a political standpoint, it was a dumb move. No white president would have been asked his opinion on this, and yet the media set up this trap for Obama. Stupidly, Obama walked right into it.

Common sense would have dictated something like "I don't have all the facts yet and don't believe it's a good idea to comment until I do."

[msanthrope]

413. If we all refrained from commenting before knowing all the facts

there would be no Internet.....

[LisaL]

414. None of us are president of the US.

[Zavulon]

415. True, but just think of

all the stupidity that would be eliminated if people did look into things before judging. We'd have not only a fairly literate Internet, but the death of the Republican party as well.

[EFerrari]

419. No. That would have been cowardice. He met the question very well

and it will serve him well politically to have stood up against racial profiling.