10,000 homes are threatened [in California fire]

[steven johnson]

Source: LA TImes

The unstoppable Angeles National Forest fire threatened 10,000 homes Saturday night as it more than tripled in size and chewed through a rapidly widening swath of the Crescenta Valley, where flames closed in on backyards and at least 1,000 homes were ordered evacuated.

Sending an ominous plume of smoke above the Los Angeles Basin, the fire was fueled by unrelenting hot weather and dense brush that has not burned in 60 years.

"Nothing can stop it," said Jost Vielmetter, 62, a Caltech scientist who watched the flames from the northern edge of Altadena.

By late Saturday afternoon, the fire had consumed more than 21,000 acres, propelled by temperatures that eclipsed 100 degrees, single-digit humidity and steep, rugged topography that made for a formidable foe despite low winds.



Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fire30-2009aug30,0,5964757.story

[barbtries]

1. oh, crap

it seems as if since my son and i moved to NC from CA in Oct 2007, CA has just burned and burned. sigh. he says it was always this way, but i swear it's gotten worse.

[MindPilot]

7. It has. 60 Minutes did a report last year.

Global warming has made the fires much worse and more frequent. They talked to firefighters who said it and the records confirmed it; these mega-fires that would occur maybe once every ten years now happen sometimes two or three times a season.

[tama]

16. Before global warming

Europeans stopping the practice of controlled burning by indians and destroying the forest garden of California has made the fires much worse.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ensho]

3. that's not funny. losing your house to fire is an awful thing

nothing to joke about

[notesdev]

5. losing it to foreclosure ain't much better

actually, it's worse since you can't insure against that... but hey, think of all the economic activity that will be created by so many people needing to buy new homes! And all those firefighter jobs created! It's only a matter of time before some politician decides he owns this...

[MindPilot]

8. Asinine comments like that are as certain as the fire season itself.

Ignore 'em.

[tama]

9. Make the best of it

live in a teepee and grow turnips (and what not) in the ashes. They grow like grazy in the ashes of a burnt forest. The old slash-and-burn cultivation method, now provided by Mother Nature... :)

[tama]

10. To continue

In fact, Californian indians used controlled burning extensively, plus other methods, to create a whole ecosystem very friendly to easy human life.

Here's one article google found on the subject:
http://aeoe.org/resources/fire/Firepaper.pdf

To add a quote from the article: "They would burn all the brush... they would burn under the trees, and that way things came back naturally, and there weren't forest fires."

Couple more quotes:
"The native California landscape, rather than a wilderness, was a garden."
"The removal of anthropogenic fire was often disruptive, even catastrophic."

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dgibby]

6. CNN reported on that last night.

Parts of that area haven't burned for years, leaving a lot fuel for these fires to feed from. That's why they can't put them out.

[tama]

12. Here's a thought

Wny not go back to the old way, pre-Spanish way, of controlled burning? See post number 10 and the article linked. And while at it, bring back the the bison herds and make life easy and chearfull, again... :)

The way to do that is not to fight Mother Nature but to adapt and imitate (in California by controlled burning) to increase biodiversity which is also beneficial to human life.

[dgibby]

14. Even better: Goats! n/t

[tama]

15. Nah

shaggy goats burn too easily, they don't belong to California. Though with controlled roasting, goat meet is very tasty.

PS: read the article linked to in post 10. Very interesting.

[flyarm]

11. My son used to play little league games up there! And i had friends who lived

up in that area..

There have always been fires west in the valley but not often in that area, although there have been fires in Angeles National forest, just in a different area.

I moved when i lost my home in the valley in the Northridge Earthquake..but my son still lives out there..
( to my chagrin)


After the 94 earthquake I had a message on my answer machine when we were forbidden to go into our red tagged home..

'Who says there aren't four seasons in La..we have Fires , floods , Riots and earthquakes."

[tinrobot]

19. That's why the fires are so intense...

Because there hasn't been a fire in that area for decades.

[Beaverhausen]

13. my photos of the smoke from yesterday

These photos were taken on the street in front of my house in Burbank. The smoke was going straight up yesterday, today it is blowing all over.








late last night, the red glow of the fire in the dark made it seem as if we were looking toward Mount Doom from Mordor.

[Auggie]

18. Incredible -- thanks for posting

[flyarm]

24. wow it almost looks like an explosion ...thanks for photos! eom

[tinrobot]

17. Here's more photos

As reference, the top of that cloud is over 20,000 feet. Looked like a volcano going off.

[Hekate]

20. That is just so scary. We just had our 3rd or 4th major fire in a year in this county...

According to a Nov '08 posting at the KSBY website, there have been 10 major fires in Santa Barbara County since 1950. Two of them were last year -- the Gap Fire right above my neighborhood and the Tea Fire in Montecito.
http://www.ksby.com/Global/story.asp?S=9352516

This year's Jesusita Fire was another major one, and the La Brea Fire in the forest near Santa Maria was just recently contained -- another biggie at 90,000 acres of back country. The Zaca Fire of 2007 burned like forever and charred over a quarter-million acres of forest. It was the second-largest fire in California history -- in my own Santa Barbara County.

Non-Californians who think this is some kind of joke played on rich Hollywood people just have no concept. It's like saying trailer park dwellers deserve what they get when a tornado turns their little homes to kindling. Everyone, rich or poor, middle class or not, gets hurt in a natural disaster. Sparks blown by the wind can go under the eaves of homes (I did mention the Gap Fire was right above my modest neighborhood, didn't I?) and smolder until the house bursts into flame.

The Governator spoke truthfully a year or so ago when he visited a SoCal scene of devastation and said, "Fire season in Kaleeforneea is year-round now. Ve must be prepared." It is, and we must.

Meanwhile, my thoughts are with the people of Crescenta Valley.

Hekate

[tama]

21. I ask again

since I get no answer. Why not, instead of fearing and fighting Mother Nature, today's Californians adapt to the ecosystem that indian gardeners created together with Mothere Nature and relearn to do what indian gardeners did, beginning from indian fires?

Are you so much stoopider and unskillfull than indians and totally uncapable of learning from them?

[Hekate]

22. The Native Californios did not have a population of 37 Million people, that's why.

We've populated the state with folks from all over the US and all over the globe. Most of them live in houses, in towns, in major cities; many along the foothills and in canyons.

YOU want to try letting Nature take its course all the time? It's enough that we let the backcountry burn these days, and just try to contain the perimeters so that 37 Million people are not burned out of their homes a city at a time.

Does that by any chance answer your question?

Hekate

[t0dd]

28. Some people here are really "uncapable" of making logical arguments

Hell, let's just give our brave firefighters the day off and watch millions of people be chased away from their homes! Maybe they can even stick around and watch their houses be engulfed by flames! It's worth admiring, seeing Nature take her course! Then we'll really be just like those indian gardeners! :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[Hekate]

23. Just out of curiosity, what sort of geography do you live in, tama? nt

[tama]

26. Most of the time

150 years old very professionally kept vast garden and organic farm, on a hilltop and by a lake which is connected to relatively large lake system, surrounded by boreal forests. The small nearby village on the same lake has harbour and a train station.

The ground is bottom of an ancient mountain, wiped out through millions of years of wear and tire. Among oldest rock in the world and practically no seismic activity.

[Hekate]

30. ROFLMAO

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

>wipes tears from eyes<

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

There, there, dear. You have water resources we can only dream of. And no earthquakes. Maybe we'll all come stay with you.

Hekate

[kestrel91316]

32. Boreal forest......sigh.....probably complete with moss hanging from the trees........

[kestrel91316]

31. I betcha you get a tad more rain than we do. "Boreal forest" and all.........

Hahahahahahahahaah

Come to SoCal in the summer and have a peek, and then try talking about controlled burns in some of these areas.

BTW, we have a huge program of brush clearing and the fire dept does controlled burns, but we are talking about a VAST interface between wildlands and suburbia.

[Endangered Specie]

25. Now, its not okay to say "well they shouldn't have been living there in the first place"

if its because of fires in California.

But hurricanes when they hit the south or Florida... oh man you shouldn't have been living there in the first place!

:sarcasm:

[Liberal_in_LA]

27. Or when tornados hit the bible belt?

[Endangered Specie]

33. that too

[Kablooie]

29. My neighborhood was the first to be threatened by this fire.

We are in a motel waiting to be allowed back home.

On Wed there was smoke behind the mountain. Not too big a deal.
Thursdsy evening flames were visible at the top. Everyone came out to
take a look. Very odd sight.
Friday evening the whole mountainside looked like a volcano erupting.
Lines of firetrucks and sheriffs were all over the place. News trucks were
up and down our street. (I was interviewed by CBS)

Later that night we were given a two hour notice to evacuate. As I was leaving
there were several huge explosions in the distance that lit up the whole sky.
A firefighter said those were transformers blowing.

Since then we've been lazing in a hotel. I went up near my neighborhood this
morning and it was like a thick fog. You could only see a couple of blocks away.

Since our area has pretty much burnt out we hope to get back home later today or tomorrow. The power might have gone off though and with the over 100 degree temps here
I don't look forward to opening the refrigerator.

[Liberal_in_LA]

34. breaking! 2 firefighters dead near Acton

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/08/2-los-angeles-county-firefighters-battling-fire-killed-in-vehicle-accident-.html