Thousands March in Haiti for New Leaders & Army (Rebels with US Marines)

[Tinoire]

Thousands March in Haiti for New Leaders and Army

By TIM WEINER

Published: March 7, 2004

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti, March 7 — Thousands of Haitians, including the rebel leader Guy Philippe, marched through the capital alongside a convoy of heavily armed United States marines today calling forcefully but peacefully for a new government and a new army in Haiti.

The march to the presidential palace started when a convoy of United States marines and French soldiers, about 50 in all, joined by a platoon of Haitian police, rolled up to St. Peter's Church during the Mass in a wealthy suburb of Port-au-Prince.

Several hundred Haitian demonstrators immediately started marching alongside the rolling convoy of foreign soldiers, making them part of the march.

The river of people grew to many thousands as it reached Toussaint L'Ouverture Boulevard. The demonstration surged around the marine convoy, carrying soldiers armed with .50-caliber machine guns and assault rifles.

Forces from the Haitian coast guard and a special-operations team of Haitian police joined the march as well. At the boulevard Mr. Philippe, one of the main armed rebel leaders who led the uprising against President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in February, appeared in the crowd directly alongside the marines.

<snip>

They chanted Guy Philippe's name and sang songs praising him. Mr. Philippe has called for the restoration of the notorious Haitian army, and United States officials say there is no evidence he has disarmed his followers. Signs in the crowd pointed directly at the United States and its politics. The United States restored President Aristide to power in 1994 after the army overthrew him in 1991. Some of the signs read "Arrest Aristide!" Others said "Down with Bill Clinton!" and "Down with Jesse Jackson!"

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/07/international/africa/07CND-HAIT.html

2 comments. Down with Jesse Jackson? Very few Haitians even know who Jesse Jackson is. I'm suprised they weren't carrying signs saying "We love Jesse Helms" or "We love George Bush".

Yep the Duvalierist trash is back in Haiti!

Knowing how the NYT spins for the government, I'm off to look for a different source.

Frankly amazing.

[htuttle]

1. Why are the US Marines protecting Guy Philippe?

He should be arrested. Roger Noriega promised that the rebels responsible for criminal acts would be arrested.

Bet they are guarding Chamblain and the rest, too.

And the signs? "Down with Bill Clinton" "Down with Jesse Jackson" ?

Were they printed at the local Kinkos?

You know, when I read that description of how the 'parade' started very carefully, I would swear it seems like the Marines and French troops started and 'shepherded' the event...

[Tinoire]

2. It is odd isn't it that the US Marines neither disarm nor arrest

proven terrorists? March side by side with them?
===

Answers to media questions about Haiti

by Marguerite Laurent, Esq.

Chair, The Haitian Lawyers Leadership

March 2, 2004


<snip>

The fact that Guy Philippe could not have freely entered Port-au-Prince, despite the opposition, without the U.S. Marines first removing Aristide is testament to Aristide's popularity and solidarity with the Haitian people.

The U.S. conducted the coup d'état against Aristide on Feb. 29, 2004, themselves. Louis Jodel Chamblain and Jean Tatoune, both of FRAPH, and part of what CNN calls a "rebel force," are convicted of massacres during the first (1991-1994) CIA-sponsored coup d'état against President Aristide. The U.S. played a pivotal role in helping Louis Jodel Chamblain flee Haiti and get asylum in the Dominican Republic. All three - Chamblain, Tatoune and Guy Philippe - are CIA assets who refused, like Toto Constant, to be subject to Haitian criminal laws and its courts of justice and got away with this because of their U.S. intelligence and diplomatic connections.

Nine hundred U.S. soldiers patrol the DR with the Dominican Guard. Yet, on Feb. 5, 2004, convicted murderers Chamblain and Philippe managed to cross the border into Haiti with U.S. weaponry such as M16s, M60s, armored vehicles, grenade launchers, etc.

The United States DEA charged Guy Philippe as a drug trafficker. Today he walks side by side with U.S. Marines in Port-au-Prince while the constitutionally elected Haitian president is flown out of Port-au-Prince under heavy U.S. coercion, if not outright gunpoint by U.S Marines.

Toto Constant, FRAPH founder, to whom the U.S. gave asylum in Queens, N.Y., while indefinitely detaining his Haitian victims on Guantanamo Bay and other INS holding pens, is now reportedly back in Haiti.

Guy Philippe and his gang's first order of business after they were escorted into Port-au-Prince by U.S. soldiers was to "liberate" 2,000 prisoners - murderers and felons - in the Haitian National Penitentiary, including Proper Avril, and unleash them onto Haitian society.

<snip>

http://www.sfbayview.com/030304/weanswers030304.shtml

[AP]

3. This is so stage-managed. It gives the pro-imperialists a story to point

to so they can say, look, the people want the sweat-shop owners to run the government.

[htuttle]

14. Not just march side by side...I contend the Marines were used to start it

Read these four paragraphs carefully where it describes how this 'march' began. My observations in italic.

The march to the presidential palace started when a convoy of United States marines and French soldiers, about 50 in all, joined by a platoon of Haitian police, rolled up to St. Peter's Church during the Mass in a wealthy suburb of Port-au-Prince.

A US convoy goes right to St. Peter's Church, in a suburb full of wealthy anti-Aristide 'opposition' DURING MASS. What better way would there be to gather an anti-Aristide crowd on short notice?

Several hundred Haitian demonstrators immediately started marching alongside the rolling convoy of foreign soldiers, making them part of the march.

from out of nowhere, several hundred Haitian demonstrators -- apparently with their 'Down with Clinton' signs all ready to go?

The river of people grew to many thousands as it reached Toussaint L'Ouverture Boulevard. The demonstration surged around the marine convoy, carrying soldiers armed with .50-caliber machine guns and assault rifles.

Forces from the Haitian coast guard and a special-operations team of Haitian police joined the march as well. At the boulevard Mr. Philippe, one of the main armed rebel leaders who led the uprising against President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in February, appeared in the crowd directly alongside the marines.

Special Operations team of Haitian Police? Isn't that basically what the official name for the TonTon Macoute used to be?

And then Guy Philippe 'appears' as if by magic next to his Marine protectors. The crowd had begun following this 'convoy' some time ago, yet now they all find themselves apparently following Guy Philippe. I wonder if the people in the back of the crowd had any idea Guy Philippe was now leading them?

This whole scene smells of Hill & Knowlten...

[Tinoire]

18. I'm with you. "Down with Clinton" "Down w/ Jesse Jackson"

Could they be more obvious?

They are deliberately sending a clear signal to the Haitian people that scum like Constant, Philippe, Chambalin are in charge.

I am frankly surprised that this appeared in the NYT like this. I think I know why now.

Several people have already been killed thanks to that demonstration of "co-operation" and over a dozen wounded (that we know of) wounded. This is the pre-emptive spinning cover.

[Just Me]

4. Surely, some of those Marines are going "WTF?"!!!

I mean, c'mon,...signs that are reading "Down with Bill Clinton!" and "Down with Jesse Jackson!" That is bizarre as all get out. Just goes to further prove that this whole scam was plotted by radical right-wing neofascists who live right in the good ole' USA.

[htuttle]

10. Not just that...

...but some of those Marines are now finding themselves providing protection for the same individuals they had to fight and arrest in the 1990's.

[Just Me]

11. Yikes,...I didn't consider that,...

,...must be distressing as all get out.

[htuttle]

15. Stan Goff is one of the Marines who arrested Jean Tatoune in the 90's

He was talking about it on Democracy Now recently.

He said that they'd ordered Tatoune and his men to drop their weapons, and when they hesitated to do so, the Marines nearly opened fire. Unfortunately for Haiti, they ended up dropping their weapons and were arrested.

Goff also expressed some regrets on the way that particular confrontation turned out...in hindsight.

[Just Me]

22. Do Goff and Hackworth have common links?

I really don't know, I am sorry to say. DU gets addictive *smile*. I haven't been to Hackworth's site for awhile,...but, from what I get from this "worldly" board (which explains my addiction to it), they have common principles.

[Suspicious]

27. "Hideous Dream"

I haven't read the book (though I intend to), but this review gives a lot of information on Stan Goff's "Hideous Dream", and a lot of insight into what was going through a U.S. soldier's mind during the 1994 invasion of Haiti - the lies these guys are told.

I was frankly astonished.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/43a/412.html

[goforit]

5. Simply amazing ..................."Down w/Jackson" is Stupid propaganda!!!

:wtf:

[Tinoire]

6. And in case anyone wonders about the Haitian Coast Guard

Here we go...

Bush plans to pay the salaries of the Haitian Coast Guard

CRAWFORD, Texas, March 5 (Reuters) - The Bush administration plans to pay the salaries of the Haitian Coast Guard to help prevent a massive outflow of refugees that could pose political problems for U.S. President George W. Bush in an election year, people familiar with the plan said on Friday.

The Bush administration informed key congressional committees that it will pay salaries for up to 500 Haitians for up to three months. U.S. taxpayers will also pay to refurbish Haitian Coast Guard facilities damaged by mobs.

U.S. President George W. Bush has bluntly told Haitians not to flee to the United States. A major refugee outflow, such as one that occurred in the early 1990s, could place Bush in a difficult position in an election year.

Bush's brother, Jeb, is governor of Florida, the closest state to the turbulent island. In the early 1990s, well over 50,000 Haitians took to the sea in rickety boats trying to reach Florida. Virtually all were returned to Haiti.

Florida is considered an important state in the president's
re-election. And Bush is aware that a few hundred votes in that swing state could decide the 2004 election, as happened in 2000.

<snip>

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=4509955

[AP]

7. Bush has promised the sweat-shop owners cheap labor. He's not about

to let any economic migration to places that offer higher wages and more promissing futures.

[Tinoire]

8. And just got even sicker reading Haitians & Guantanamo

The military also is preparing a camp capable of housing tens of thousands of migrants at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, near the prison where it is holding hundreds of captives in the war on terrorism.

In the Reuters article Bush paying salaries of Haitian Coast Guard :(

[Just Me]

13. I'll betcha I know what company will build it,...

,...geez,...this crap makes me sad and mad. I am so sick of this. I can't wait until the 20th!!! I always feel so much more hopeful and inspired every single time I am right in the middle of that sea of people taking a stand for humanity.

[Mika]

9. As if Haitian's only hope is for Florida.

What self serving, self aggrandizing drivel. As if Florida is any kind of beacon of democracy and fair treatment. :puke:

Many thousands of Haitians are in Cuba proper (Holguin, not Gitmo) right now - glad to have made it there instead of Florida (where they would be jailed before being deported back to the mayhem). Instead Cuban Coast Guard escorted Haitians boats into harbor & rescued many from certain death at sea, and will give each and every Haitian of age of consent a legally required fair asylum hearing, and has promised not to deport any Haitian until a CARICOM recognized government AND stability returns to Haiti.

[Tinoire]

12. And "some" dare ask, on this board, why so many progressives

admire Castro. Thank you Castro. Thank you Cuba.

Thank you as seeing refugees as more than garbage to be thrown away.

[Mika]

32. Castro didn't rescue them. The Cuban people did.

Cubans can relate to American tyranny, and fully sympathize with those poor Haitians escaping the cane machetes and M-16's. If President Castro would have ordered the Cuban Coast Guard to let them drown or get shoved back to their deaths by the Americans there would have been a national crisis in Cuba. The recall campaigns and local accountability sessions would be initiated immediately. That's the thing so many Americans don't or won't understand (mainly because their own gov bans them from Cuba travel).. Cubans run Cuba, not Castro. Any move by the Cuban government requires the consent of the activist Cuban people. There is a massive charitable campaign on right now to help support the refugees and the Cuban teachers & doctors and their families who are helping the Haitians and those going to and that are already in Haiti. Don't commit the same faux pas as Castro's opposition in America (mainly by an extremist minority in Miami) - focusing on one man - Fidel, while ignoring the works of all of the good and decent and hardworking people of the island. The Cuban people together deserve all of the credit for their sovereignty, their freedom, their socialism, their infrastructure, and their compassion for the Haitians escaping murder & mayhem and people in need all over the world.


Viva Cuba!

[Just Me]

16. Sometimes, I feel like a well-organized coup,...

,...has been planted in DU. Does anyone else get that sensation?

[I AM SPARTACUS]

17. ???

[Minstrel Boy]

19. Yes, and it's been making me

wonder where the hell I am.

I wonder what some here would have said 15 years ago about the terrorist ANC, and the communist Nelson Mandela.

[Just Me]

20. Good,...

,...so it isn't "Just Me" formulating such an impression.

[I AM SPARTACUS]

24. wellll...20 years ago I was saying "Free Nelson Mandela"...

along with alotta other folks...

...but I'm still unclear about this "coup d'DU"...

Free Nelson Mandela
The Special AKA - 1984

Free Nelson Mandela
Free, Free, Free, Nelson Mandela
Free Nelson Mandela
Twenty-one years in captivity
His shoes too small to fit his feet
His body abused but his mind is still free
Are you so blind that you cannot see
I say Free Nelson Mandela
I'm begging you
Free Nelson Mandela
Are you so blind that you cannot see
Are you so deaf that you cannot hear
Are you so dumb that you cannot speak
I say Free Nelson Mandela
I'm begging you
Oh free Nelson Mandela, free

[Tinoire]

23. There's definitely an orchestrated infiltration

Thankfully it's no harder to spot than anything else they orchestrate.

Like master, like puppet- neither being any more convincing than Noriega at the House Int'l Relations Subcmte Hearing on Haitian Political Situation: rtsp://video.c-span.org/15days/e030304_house.rm?mode=compact (paste into an open browswer window & will open real player or search for on C-Span)

If you watch this, fast forward past the pasty Bush apologists and ENJOY the part where the CBC rips that pathethic ass a new one.

[Just Me]

26. "Like master, like puppet" *giggle*,...

,...that made me laugh,...and sigh,...

[Just Me]

28. By the way, I did watch that hearing,...

,...wasn't it absolutely fabulous!!!! Noriega turned white as a ghost,...of course, his insides are as dead as the soul he sold to the devil.

[Tinoire]

31. I am going to watch it again just for that

He did. It would have been hilarious to watch if the situation weren't so tragic. If you ever find a transcript of that please post it; I promise to do the same.

Maxine Walters was FABULOUS. So was Jan Shakowsky(sp), Barbara Lee, Rangel, all of them! "As dead as the soul he sold to the devil". I like that one!

[eablair3]

21. Why don't they just have national elections?

If the U.S. under BushCo is really so "pro-democratic" why don't they just organize national elections now? The Marines could provide the security, and international monitors could assist in organizing, in observing and in counting the votes.

Although Aristide agree to such elections recently, the opposition refused.

They won't do this, or even agree to elections. That's about all that needs to be said.

[Just Me]

25. Because,...this was NEVER about democracy,...

,...BushCo interests are ANTI-DEMOCRACY. They are imperialists. BushCo loyalists are imperialists and those who seek imperialism are ANTI-DEMOCRACY. GRRRRRRR!!!!

I wish I could shake awake the American people to that very simple notion: Bush imperialists hate democracy!!! Their whole following HATE democracy which is evidenced by their desparation to shut up all opposition through Goebbels-style propaganda.

[Tinoire]

29. Well they're going to have some soon

with Washington's election monitors on site to make sure that this time only Washington's IMF & Business loving candidates present themselves.

Aristide snuck by them the first time he won with 70% of the vote. The US' candidate was a Haitian World Bank official named Marc Bazin who was only able to round up 12% of the vote between the elite and the Duvalieristes.

Up to the night before the elections, Jimmy Carter himself was trying to get Aristide to pull out. The first & second elections Aristide won were reluctantly approved as "fair" because there were so many other agencies around monitoring them. The second win, of course, was approved even more reluctantly because the last thing Washington needed was some IMF-resisting Leftist spouting off about free universities, a minimum wage, and health-care for the poor.

But we'll have elections soon enough, despite the people demanding that Aristide finish all 5 years of his elected term. We'll have old Duvalieristes and businessmen filling all the positions and the army that Aristide dissolved, the army that protects the elite and keeps the people in line will be reinstated, trained, and out-fitted by the US. Just like under Papa Doc whose soon is already packed and ready to return.


Already, the US command is telling Aristide's party that they had better shut up or else they will be forbidden from presenting themselves at future elections. As if they would be...

[Just Me]

30. Hopelessness is certainly not the answer,...

,...know what i mean?