Wisconsin State Senate approves Anti-Gay mariage amendment 20-13.

[TheMightyFavog]

http://www.wkbt.com/index.php?section_id=552&xstate=view_story&story_id=167610

THE WISCONSIN STATE SENATE HAS APPROVED AN AMENDMENT TO THE STATE CONSTITUTION THAT WOULD BAN SAME-SEX MARRIAGE AND CIVIL UNIONS. THE SENATE APPROVED THE AMENDMENT WITH A 20 TO 13 VOTE AT AROUND 12-30 THIS MORNING.

(it was in all caps when I found it.)

[4dsc]

1. And I thought Wisconsin was a progressive state

what happened up there in badgerland?? I'm here in Iowa and I always thought of Wisconsin as a very progressive people.. What the F#ck??

[TheMightyFavog]

2. The 2002 elections happened.

While we took back the Governor's mansion, the Repukes had a field day taking up more seats in the assembly and taking back the Senate. I need to find a roll call to see if any of our people broke ranks.

[ewagner]

4. Been looking for a roll call

However, in our area, the usual suspects are Suder,and Zein.

I don't think Julie Lassa would have voted for it. She's in a pretty safe district in Stevens Point.

[TheMightyFavog]

7. Here's the roll call.

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2003/data/votes/sv0520.pdf

It's down party lines with two exceptions.

Fucking Hansen went to the dark side, just as I thought! :mad: I'm going to have to give him a piece of my mind next time I see him!

[saigon68]

22. I'm in Hansen's district

I have little good to say about him except that the guy he beat last time Senator Drewzwicki (R) Mars-- was a scary scary dude.

This district is one of the most conservative in the state.

THIS VOTE WAS DISGUSTING !!!!!!!

(sorry for yelling) :-(

[HFishbine]

6. Can Governor Veto?

Would he if he can? If so, is a two-thirds majority in the senate required to override a veto?

[leesa]

12. It's so sad what has happened to both Wisconsin and Minnesota

Both used to have a proud record of progressive policies and law. Then the foolish Fundies and the corporate liars spread their poison far and wide and both states are RW havens right now. Hopefully they wake up.
The farmers have been conned into thinking they lost their family farms because of Dems, I guess, even though they know the cause is corporate greed and they know the GOP is all corporate greed all the time...go figger.

[Voltaire99]

21. How Minnesota went to crap (in 100 words or less)

Minnesota experienced enormous growth fueled by the market in the 90s, and with that growth came a shifting demographic. "Dump Wellstone" signs sprouted in our growing suburbs. The passion of outstate Minnesota, battered in the 80s by the infamous Hormel fiasco, cooled in the era of corporate farming.

But our dissolution hasn't only been due to the influx of right-center and right wing middle class voters. The state and national Democratic party did nothing to succor the progressive tradition, running the lacklustre Skip Humphrey in a big for governor risibly lost to the meathead Ventura. The emblematic Wellstone was, at the time of his death, politically isolated nationally and at home; only through the compromises he had made in recent years with vote swapping - evidence that he had begun to be broken - did he become more palatable to the party.

The ultimate measure of this isolation was the pathetic attempt to run Mondale after the plane crash: no one had prepared a successor. No one was coming behind Wellstone to carry the torch.

So it isn't so much about "waking up" as it is recognizing who lives here now and what has happened in twenty years and what the party is going to do to appeal to the new Minnesota (essentially, move to the right). The odds of someone like Wellstone successfully running here again in the near future are, to be generous, nil.

[htuttle]

3. l think that this needs one more legislative approval

and then it goes to a referendum next April?

Unfortunately, I don't think our Governor gets a shot at vetoing this -- someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[ewagner]

5. Think you're right n/t

[TheMightyFavog]

8. You're right.

Has to be approved in two consecutive legislative sessions, and then approved by the voters in a referendum. The governor can not veto.

[TheMightyFavog]

9. Grrrr...

Roger Breske and Dave Hansen are the two Dems who voted for the amendment. Both these people need to receive a swift kick in the ass!

[David__77]

10. No two-thirds requirement there?

That's curious. It must be easy to send things to ballot.

[TheMightyFavog]

11. Keep in mind..

That it has to pass two consecutive sessions before it goes to the ballot. It will all depend this year's elections. If we can get back the Majority plus a couple of seats, just in case Hansen and Breske decide to go to the dark side again, the amendment will have zero chance of going to the polls. However, if the Repugs remain in control. It will probably be a given that this will be added to our constitution. The fundies will see to it that every God-fearin' churchgoer of voting age will get to the polls and vote for the amendment. Hell, I wouldn't put it past them to go drive around the cities in vans and picking up homeless guys and taking them to the polls in exchange for some food or something.

[Roaming]

13. Big part of the reason the political climate is changing in Wisconsin is

we have been taxed, taxed, taxed to DEATH in this state. We have one of the highest tax rates in the country, and receive no better public service than any other state. I think people are starting to vote Republican more because of the tax issue.

Yes, Tommy Thompson was a Republican and spent like CRAZY; however, that was during a prosperous time and that didn't require additional taxes.

Unless some tax relief comes to us from the Democratic side, I predict more and more conservative lawmakers will be elected.

[htuttle]

14. Thompson raised taxes, IIRC, but I don't believe Doyle has yet

One of the things Doyle promised during the last campaign was that he wouldn't raise income taxes, and I don't believe he has. He raised some fees and made a lot of cuts, but I don't believe there were any income tax hikes in his budget.

Here's the Journal/Sentinel (hardly a 'lefty' paper!) on Doyle's budget:

The truth is that Wisconsin's governor can justifiably claim some bragging rights, even though we believe he has bungled some critical issues and missed a grand opportunity on the biggest issue of all.

His most prominent success without question is the state budget. Faced with a $3.2 billion deficit, Doyle wrestled the monster to ground with a few gimmicks, some one-time funds and, most significantly, real budget cuts that pinched local governments, the University of Wisconsin system and the state payroll. He also kept a big promise: He said he would not raise state taxes, and he didn't.

Where most people are getting killed on taxes is property taxes. This is ultimately due to the Feds withholding or cutting grants back to the states, when then ultimately falls on the local communities. Those local communities then need to raise property taxes to cover basic services that they used to get some help on.

This is pretty much the story all over the country. While your federal taxes may or may not have gone down, your property taxes have almost certainly gone up, since it needs to pay for more things than it used to.

As to why our legislature is currently so skewed -- I'd bet it has more to do with the meltdown the leadership of BOTH parties experienced during the scandals of 2001/2002.

To be honest, I considered Chuck Chvala the singularly most ineffectual Democratic politician I'd seen for a long time, and even before he was charged with multiple felonies, he really failed in his role as Majority Leader (back when Democrats controlled the WI Senate).

The Republican side of the WI legislature, while also wracked with scandal during 2001/2002, got it's act together much more quickly than the WI Democrats.

I think all that has more to do with the uniquely wingnut flavor of the Wisconsin Legislature right now than any other cause.

[TheMightyFavog]

15. Chvala

If there's any justice in this state, he'd be sharing a cell with Scott Jensen.

[TheMightyFavog]

16. Yeah...

King Tommy I's Spending spree is coming back and biting us in the ass big time.

[sybylla]

17. Wrong

***We have one of the highest tax rates in the country, and receive no better public service than any other state***

That's a puke talking point from the last election. This was debunked by several organizations including the Center for the Study of Jobs & Education in Wisconsin.

Here is what they say:
***Wisconsin per capita taxes of $3,458 for state and local property taxes ranks Wisconsin 8th in taxes with a U.S. average of $3,100 per capita. Per capita Wisconsin taxpayers pay a modest $358 more than the national average.***

They also place the blame for the increasing burden on Wisconsin taxpayers on the shift from corporate taxation - a la Tommy-Boy Thompson.

You can view their report at http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:ag3oE0bOxbMJ:www.jobseducationwis.org/161%2520Taxes,%2520Greed%2520and%2520Selfishness.doc+Wisconsin+taxes+per+capita&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

And for that $358 more, we do get a great deal more in services. Listen to WPR talk radio for a month and you will hear callers who have moved to Wisconsin from another state or away from Wisconsin who say that we get a good deal of bang for our buck in public services and education. While there's always room for improvement, Wisconsin's kids have tested #1 or #2 on college entrance exams for 13 years ( http://www.weac.org/greatschools/2002-03/brochure/student.htm ), our 4th graders rank among the top five states in reading scores and our science scores are among the worlds best - our 8th grade students scored second in the world in an international test comparison ( http://www.nea.org/goodnews/wi01.html ). And there are lots of states that spend more per child on public education.

As far as public services, the first thing everyone complained about this fall was the cut in snow plowing budgets. We like our public services here and though we grouse about paying for them, just try to cut them. You'll loose your backside in the next election.

[54anickel]

18. Thanks Sybylla! I love my home state of WI -

especially now that Tommy's gone.

This Anti-Gay marriage ban makes me sick! That is not the state I grew up with! Where are these people coming from?

If it does get put to the voters, I will do my hardest to "educate" folks on this BS to get it voted down.

[Roaming]

19. You probably don't own your own home...

I have relatives in other states who get the same level of fire, police, snow plow, schools, etc., etc., and pay HALF the taxes we do. My house, assessed at about $165,000, is taxed at a rate of $4,800 a year. The same house in other states is less than $2,000.

[sybylla]

23. I do own my own home. And I gladly pay my taxes.

The difference between Wisconsin and many other states is that we collect the largest part of our taxes locally as property taxes. It doesn't come out of our paychecks weekly and at the end of the year it looks like an impossible sum. This year, thanks to reductions and rearrangements in shared revenue in addition to reassessment, my taxes rose 16%. Don't think I don't know what your talking about.

But when the pukes and conservative 527c's start claiming we are the 3rd highest taxed state in the nation, I start doing a little research. It didn't take long to discover that their studies are skewed.

Many other states, like neighboring Minnesota, have gone to charging incredibly high "fees" for government services. For example, in Wisconsin we can register our vehicles with the DMV for $45, our trucks for $65. In Minnesota, you're lucky if you can register your car for less than $500 per year. In other states, this same fee is much higher. You can't tell me it costs that much to register a car. Minnesotans are paying taxes disguised as "fees." Many states have gone this route for "revenue enhancements" by charging high fees for minor things like getting a marriage licence, renewing your driver's license, licensing your dog and more. Wisconsin gets punished in these studies because we tax honestly rather than behind the citizens' backs and only charge reasonable fees to help cover costs.

And yet, the study I directed you to demonstrates, when you take all taxation into account(excise, income and property taxes) we in Wisconsin only pay about 10% more than the average nationwide. And for what we get with that 10%, I'm thrilled to pay it. And if I could find it, I'd direct you to a study I found in 2002 that takes into account the fees as well, which, IIRC, puts Wisconsin about 20th in state "revenue per capita." Unfortunately, at the moment, the location of that study escapes me.

Look, I found the study I directed you to by googling. There were several more cited, some concurring, one by the libertarian Wisconsin Tax Payers Alliance who concurred with the pukes. Do the research. But if you buy the puke line that we pay too much in taxes and get nothing for it, I have some property for sale in the Houston school district.

[sybylla]

24. Additionally, I too have relatives in other states

My aunt in Georgia pays, last I knew, less than a quarter of what I pay in property taxes. But the public school system in her part of the state sucks because, after all its population is 90% black and white people don't send their kids to public schools, hence, they don't send their tax dollars there either. So in essence, paying $2000 to $10000 dollars a year in private school tuition over the course of 13 years pretty much makes up the the difference in property taxes - and in Wisconsin, you don't have to be born into a middle class white family to get a decent education.

[MadAsHell]

20. It must be that it is not a tax unless it effects rich people ...

The gas "tax" went up every year Thompson was Gov. The sales "tax" went up and included more things under Tommy. The state park fees, hunting license fees, Drivers license fees, car registration fees, tuition at the state colleges are just a few things that went up under Toxic Tommy.

All the while the top income tax rate was decreased and a number of capital items became tax deductable.