Central Falls to fire every high school teacher

[The Northerner]

Source: The Providence Journal

CENTRAL FALLS –– The teachers didn’t blink.

Under threat of losing their jobs if they didn’t go along with extra work for not a lot of extra pay, the Central Falls Teachers’ Union refused Friday morning to accept a reform plan for one of the worst-performing high schools in the state.

The superintendent didn’t blink either.

After learning of the union’s position, School Supt. Frances Gallo notified the state that she was switching to an alternative she was hoping to avoid: firing the entire staff at Central Falls High School. In total, about 100 teachers, administrators and assistants will lose their jobs.

Read more: http://www.projo.com/education/content/central_falls_teachers.1_02-13-10_A8HEI7Q_v61.3a65218.html

---

Edited content & replaced for a more credible source.

Sorry about that.

[Cal Carpenter]

1. Business Insider?

I think there are likely two sides to this situation, and that article reflects exactly one of them.

[Vincardog]

10. Duh ya think? MAybe there is mort to the story than the Pro BIZ Admin side?

[baldguy]

2. If they were expected to take on add'l duties & work add'l hours with no extra pay?

They were right to refuse. If the clueless superintendent wanted to make changes the terms of the teachers' employment he should've reached an agreement with the union first.

The super should be canned & all of the teachers re-hired with back pay.

[Fridays Child]

3. +1

[Enrique]

4. nice source

:eyes:

[Cronus Protagonist]

5. What you left out was the most important

http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-unionized-rhode-island-teachers-refuse-to-work-25-minutes-more-per-day-so-town-fires-all-of-them-2010-2

Gallo blamed the union’s “callous disregard” for the situation, saying union leaders “knew full well what would happen” if they rejected the six conditions Gallo said were crucial to improving the school. The conditions are adding 25 minutes to the school day, providing tutoring on a rotating schedule before and after school, eating lunch with students once a week, submitting to more rigorous evaluations, attending weekly after-school planning sessions with other teachers and participating in two weeks of training in the summer.

Would anyone like to submit to rigorous evaluations, work after working hours each week, work before and after work on a varying schedule, and give up two weeks of your summer vacation?

This is a biased source, to say the least.

[aquart]

6. "Two weeks of training"?

They hired people who weren't trained?

[Igel]

107. Most of that sounds like what I'm being taught "best practices" are.

Involve teachers in students lives. Make sure they cooperate in a way that allows for coordination of content and be able to bring up problems students may be having across the curriculum and then make up a plan the student more holistically.

"Evaluation" is ambiguous here. I don't know the purpose: For retention, or for hightlighting deficiencies in teaching and discipline practices, for introducing new techniques and procedures, or something else.

Same for training. If you want to have a "21st century skills" focus, in more recent discipline methods, in how to work across content areas, how would you manage that? Well, you'd need to bring the teachers in to train them. Some teachers will have been trained last year, some 20 years ago.

Still, they had a contract and stood by it. Nothing wrong with that. If the administration violated the terms of the contract by firing them, sue it. If not, time for a compromise or the union members can go and find other work.

I keep hearing the same complaints from teachers and administrators. The teachers don't get any support from the administration and just want to be left because, well, they know best; the administration tries to run things and make things better because they know best, but the cat herd continues to do things in 57 different ways and the administration is powerless to alter things.

[harkadog]

8. Most workers would love to have those conditions.

Unions are not automatically right and they were certainly wrong in this case. The school should find new teachers that care about their students.

[Cronus Protagonist]

12. Are you seriously claiming that these teachers don't care about their students?

Yeah, I'd like to have a teacher's vacation and salary, but that's not the point. The brush with which you paint is thick and your comment is thicker.

[harkadog]

22. You don't even know these teachers

So your defense is a broad brush too. They were offered $30 a hour to help their students and they demanded $90 a hour. To do a job they should be doing anyway.

[Chemical Bill]

35. Wow...

You do know these teachers? Do you listen to their gripes about those asshole kids?

Bill

[harkadog]

63. ?

Don't know them and not sure the point you are trying to make.

[Chemical Bill]

120. Well...

if you don't know these teachers then you can't complain that poster CP doesn't know them. The inference I got from your post was that you actually have inside knowledge about the teachers, and CP is wrong to assume that the teachers care about the students. Your admission confirms that you have no reason to assume that the teachers don't care about the students.

Bill

[Dr.Phool]

43. The administration was trying to unilatteraly change the entire contract.

A labor agreement with defined work rules is a contract.

The teachers will win this one.

[tonysam]

57. Yep.

The superintendent was trying to pull a fast one.

I suspect what she was really after was getting rid of senior teachers because of them being higher paid and older.

The super and the school board who hired her need to be sacked.

[Zoeisright]

103. Oh, ignore him. It's made my life easier.

And I'm sick to death of that bullshit about 'teachers' vacations'. My husband is a teacher, and we just figured out he works 80 HOURS A WEEK for nine months of the year. That means, with summers off, he still works 60 hours a week, far more than the stupid poster you were responding to. And the pay is a joke. He's got a master's degree, and still couldn't survive on his pay alone unless he lived in an efficiency apartment and ate beans all the time.

And that doesn't count the workshops and work he does in the summer to prepare for the next year. Anyone who says teachers are coddled has their head up their ass and firmly planted.

[Vincardog]

15. Most workers want to come in early for no pay, stay lat for no pay, work thurough lunch for no pay a...

give up two weeks of summer vacation for no pay? And be evaluated again?
How many 'most' workers do you know?

[harkadog]

20. Stop the BS

They were offered 30$ for the summer work. They demanded $90 as hour. Ridiculous.

[brentspeak]

26. Let's see...the article was based on an email from an authority named "Jason"

Must be true -- and the full story-- then.

[harkadog]

29. I sure you will bring us the true story.

[peacebird]

37. "I sure you will bring us the true story"...?

my inner grammarian is cringing....

[harkadog]

64. The typo police strike again! Everybody run!

[Vincardog]

31. I read the Link I did not see any mention of the money except 'for no additional pay'

[harkadog]

68. Try this link

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/02/central-falls-rhode-island-fires-every.html

[baldguy]

21. Most desperate, non-union, oppressed workers would love to have those conditions.

Just because a slave owner doesn't whip his slaves doesn't make slavery any better. A union is there to protect the interests of it's members. What this one should do is get an injunction against the school district & the super against hiring scabs and force them to bring back the teachers.

You do know the Democratic Party is generally supportive of workers & the right to collective bargaining, don't you?

[harkadog]

27. I doubt you know anything about collective bargining.

I was a United Steelworkers Union elected official in Chicago with one of the biggest steel locals in country for 14 years. Don't try and lecture me on unions and collective bargaining. That you compared slavery with the situation here shows how weak your argument, if that is what it was, is. Unions are not always right.

[baldguy]

40. 15 yrs UAW

My job is now being done in Mexico for 1/10th my former wage. Slavery is the exact metaphor to be used here, since it's a master/slave relationship the super is expecting to create.

As a former union boss, you should understand that workers & management need to form a partnership for any work to be accomplished, and high-handed actions like that of the super rarely have the intended effect and will have real consequences for her professionally - real NEGATIVE consequences. If the union has any worth, she'll be lucky to end up teaching 10th grade Typing for Business when all this is done.

[Doremus]

53. I never read a post more full of bullshit. nt

[harkadog]

65. How damning!

[pattmarty]

80. From a "real" working person it sure is.

[pattmarty]

66. You sure don't sound like it. Why ain't you there now? ................

...........I was "just" a lowly Teamster member for 32 fucking years, AND from what I read the teachers were right. Did you make up the 90 per hr?

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Caretha]

73. You know what?`

You are an anonymous poster claiming you are such and such. Prove it, or otherwise it's just internet bragging BS. Anyone can say anything on the internet. It doesn't make it true, and in your case, it doesn't even ring true.

[harkadog]

79. How am I going to "prove it" to use your words.

Come to your house? Anything I would post on here you would immediately call "internet bragging". Your statement could be applied to to all of the thousands of posts that are put on DU everyday. If some anonymous internet electrons that you represent doesn't want to believe something who cares? I have provided enough information that anyone who was involved with the Steelworker Union on an elected level in Chicago in the 70s and 80s would know who I am.

[Plucketeer]

86. That you think the teachers should swallow this BS

Is maybe indicative of why Steelworkers have taken the cold rolled shaft in recent times. I guess you can state with certainty that the kids this school has to deal with are all just STARVING for knowledge as they stream through the doors of the school each day? And you'd know all this with the convictions you have - based on the statements made by administrators, eh?

Certainly there's NO responsibility on the part of the parents of these kids. The parents are all deeply involved and the kids are all cookie cutter copies with extremely capable IQs. It's just a matter of defiantly deficient didactics that are at the root of this situation. Man - your teachers must have been marvelous! :crazy:

[Igel]

108. As an aside. . .

(And I probably won't see any response to my post)

You're precisely right: "A union is there to protect the interests of it's members." However, the NEA says both that and that its purpose is to ensure the best education for the students. I find these two goals to frequently be at odds, yet both are at various times the main focus on the NEA. Or other teacher unions.

It's on par with the NEA's asking for more money because then either the teachers would be able to teach better (although the implication is that the teachers, whose only desire is to help their students, are holding back) or be able to hire better teachers (so that the NEA leaves the only inference that their members, to a great extent, suck).

I find such internal contradictions wildly amusing.

[baldguy]

119. I'll trust unionized education professionals over MBA morons in the administration

who try to apply standard business methodologies to schools.

Six Sigma in a school system doesn't work simply because you can't fire your students for poor performance. And you could hire the best teachers in the world; if their students are worried about getting killed if they step outside, or wondering if their parents will get deported, or simply if they'll have food when they get home - no amount of teacher involvement will MAKE those students want to learn.

The single most effective management tool for schools to succeed is to treat it like an investment, rather than a burden which is just a drain on the tax base.

[brentspeak]

25. Are you the tag-team partner with the OP?

First, he/she sets up the pro-union-busting article. Then, you come in on cue, and provide the additional lines.

[harkadog]

28. No just bringing in some facts

I have actually represented union members in negotiating and I was elected for three four year terms by the members so I must have been doing something right. How many of the posters have ever represented anybody?

[brentspeak]

30. Do you represent the teachers in this case?

Actually know some of the facts concerning the case apart from the selected information derived from a Business Insider article which sourced its material from a practically anonymous email? As someone points out below, the teachers in this case could not have possibly been making "$70,000-$78,000" a year. So the whole thing is B.S.

[harkadog]

62. Teachers could easily make that range.

For example here are the salaries of Chicago teachers. http://www.championnews.net/district.php?did=9831&year=2008 Why don't you provide us the "real facts" since you think everything is made up.

[Zoeisright]

104. Oh, he definitely is.

Anyone who criticizes teachers is a dipshit and has no idea what they're talking about.

[defendandprotect]

34. Few have those conditions now because unions have been under attack . . .

for decades -- !!!

If you want your kids to be working on weekends and 12 hour days, sign up for this

kind of right wing thinking!!

[1monster]

38. Most workers would not like to have a teacher's job. Beleive me. Aside from the workday problems

of keeping order in a classroom (which is ver difficult in some cases), most teachers teachers truly want to help students learn as much as possible (and not just to pass a state-mandated test).

I'm not a full time teacher, but I occasionally take on a full time teaching job for a few weeks to a whole semester. Just got off a long-term sub job.

Let me tell you that a teacher does not just come in and work for the contracted seven and a half hours. I was spending an extra half hour to hour after school catching up on grading papers, making lesson plans, and doing necessary paper work.

Then I'd go home and spend another hour to four hours doing the same.

For no extra pay or compensation of any kind.

Most teachers I know also do the same.

Yes, the Rhode Island teachers seem to be well paid. The rate of compensation in my school district is about $20,000 to $25,000 less per year. But, believe me, the teachers are worth far more than they are paid.

As for the superintendent, she was out of line. Collective BARGAINING usually means that both sides meet, negotiate, compromise and end up with an agreement in which both sides give a little and get a little. Bargaining doesn't mean MY WAY OR YOU ARE ALL FIRED.

I hope the Union sues and wins big. The superintendent needs to be fired.

[Blue_Tires]

82. +1

two of my ex-GFs are inner-city teachers in Calif., and even though they are passionate and like what they do, there is no salary big enough to cover all the things they have to do above and beyond their job description...

[Stumbler]

93. I've never taught, but think I'd have to agree w/ you

In my former job as a sales rep, one of my customers would routinely complain about how the teachers in her city were overpaid, overcompensated and lazy. Her favorite complaint was that they get summer breaks, which in her mind meant they spent 3 solid months in Tahiti living a care-free existence. Summer school teaching positions and additional training never entered into her equation. I'd bring up the same points you did, trying to convince her that it wasn't as easy as she thought, but failed to get through.

As for the hard work she contributed to the liquor store she owned? She spent the majority of her working hours sitting in the back room bullshitting w/ us sales reps, and scratching lottery tickets while Limbaugh & Hannity blared on the radio in her office. For the couple hours per week that I saw her, we might've spent 20 minutes on a topic like this; far less than the 6-hour daily propaganda she absorbed from RW radio.

[Proletariatprincess]

51. Remember that the real reason for unions is

to raise the value of Labor. Many unions have forgotten that mission and think they are there solely to service the members. Not so. Labor is a INTERNATAIONAL MOVEMENT. It's success or failure effects working people everywhere whether members or not. When employers get away with exploitation we all suffer.
It has been said that a society should be judged on how well it honors it's teachers.
And, incidently, there wouldn't be a public education system in the USA if the American Labor Movement hadn't fought for and won it.

[tonysam]

58. Yes they are if the shitbag superintendent is trying to change the rules

SHE is the one who should be fired.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zanana1]

71. Can you think of another profession that requires...

Four years of undergrad and, in most states, a Master's in Education for the paltry sum they get, the nit-picky parents who are NEVER happy with how their precious children are being treated and an administration that won't support them? Think again.

[harkadog]

109. Paltry sum???

Here is what the teachers -- not administrators -- in Chicago get and Chicago does not require a Master in Ed. http://www.championnews.net/district.php?did=9831&year=2008. Most Americans would be happy to get these paltry sums.

[LisaM]

111. Those are not all teachers

I clicked on a few of the higher salaries and at least two of them were principals.

For one of the others, the person had been teaching for 18 years and had a Master's Degree. If you worked in a corporation for 18 years and had multiple degrees, you could easily expect to double what the teacher is getting (and for which he/she works many more hours).

This also doesn't indicate if they are supplmenting their pay with, for example, coaching, as my father had to do all through the time he taught. In addition to teaching, he coached at least two sports most of the time he was working. Summer vacation? Not for the first 15 years or so. He always had to pick up extra jobs coaching summer rec, OR he was in school getting another degree (which the school system did not pay for).

A first year attorney makes more than most of the salaries listed there. I would also guess that urban salaries are higher than in many other places.

[zanana1]

113. That's right, LisaM

Most teachers have to get part-time jobs to supplement their incomes and also have to find jobs for the summer.

[harkadog]

115. I personally know two of the teachers on there.

One two years out of 4 year college making 68k. The other four years out making 74k.

[zanana1]

112. You're just quoting Chicago salaries.

Teachers in some states live just above the poverty line.

[harkadog]

114. Only figures I have

Maybe you can give links to the others.

[JDPriestly]

94. You forget that in addition to all those extra hours, the teachers

will still be expected to write lesson plans, grade papers, grade students, decorate their rooms (in some schools that includes coming in over the summer to paint your own classroom), take extra courses to pursue additional degrees and maintain your professional qualifications and everything else that teachers have to do.

I remember when I did student teaching for junior high classes many years ago, I would come home from school, drop into my bed and sleep. I was supposed to prepare lessons for the next day, but the classroom teaching was so exhausting that I had to do all my preparation and other work on the weekends. I never taught below college level classes after that -- too exhausting. I don't know how teachers do what they do.

Teachers are on stage every minute that they are in the classroom. To ask them to come early, leave let and go without quiet time at lunch is inhuman.

[snooper2]

101. I'll take those conditions..

Just did a week and a half of off-site training with one of our switch venors. Spent an hour and a half each morning working email and about 4-5 hours in the evening as well VPN'd into work..

And I don't get a pension :)

[mike_c]

102. they call those SCABS and they're one of the lowest forms of life on Earth....

eom

[nosmokes]

124. RAmen, brother.

they stink too.

[nosmokes]

125. A starving wo/man will eat what s/he can get. That doesn't mean

we shouldn't strive to give everyone a quality diet of wholesome humanely and sustainably raised foods, not processed food-like substances that requires the torture of animals and ruination of the environment and native cultures.

edited because I still can't type. or proof.

[Wilms]

32. Here's a bit about the author.

Seems he has had trouble with factual reporting in the past. Serious trouble.

Fraud settlement

In 2002, then New York State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer, published Merrill Lynch e-mails in which Blodget allegedly gave assessments about stocks which conflicted with what was publicly published.<5> In 2003, he was charged with civil securities fraud by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.<6> He settled without admitting or denying the allegations and agreed to a bar from the securities industry. He paid a $2 million fine and $2 million disgorgement.<7>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Blodget

[defendandprotect]

39. Interesting criminal background . . .!!

Which reminds me of the long term Wall St. Journal's attacks on Social Security

as a "ponzi scheme" -- !!

[tonysam]

60. You don't even half to look at the reporter. The Providence Journal

is a right-wing rag, one of the few major papers to have endorsed John McCain for president.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

76. The Projo DID NOT endorse McCain

http://www.projo.com/opinion/editorials/content/ED_obama26_10-26-08_8BC0MHT_v47.3e2b640.html
Editorial: Obama for president
01:00 AM EDT on Sunday, October 26, 2008

This year America has two first-class major-party candidates for the presidency, with experiences enough to fill novels. While acknowledging that any candidate endorsement involves a leap of faith, we support Sen. Barack Obama over his estimable Republican opponent, John McCain.
***********************************************************************************************************

Aside from that, I don't disagree that it's a right wing rag, although their in state coverage of the constant hot and cold running scandals inside Rhode Island are always pretty good.

Affectionate nicknames for the Journal within RI - The Providence Gerbil, the Providence Urinal

[Blue_Tires]

81. upper management may be RW, but the

rank-and-file reporters and employees are generally liberal...

(at least it was when i worked there)

[tonysam]

84. I stand corrected on the endorsement, but it is still a RW rag.

But RW or not, the media are generally teacher-bashing these days. The WP, the NYT, the LAT, virtually ALL of them.

[Chemical Bill]

41. "...more rigorous evaluations..."

All over the country teachers are being threatened over student's test scores. As if the test scores could go up every year. I remember hearing something once about leading a horse to water....

Bill

[Dr.Phool]

42. In other words, they wanted to change the entire contract.

Throw out all the work rules, and just do as they please.

[tonysam]

56. Projo is a right-wing rag. It endorsed McCain in 2008. n/t

[ProgressiveProfessor]

87. That may well be exactly what Gallo said...

I read the article as only taking information from side as to why...but tend to think the facts as to what action was being taken is most likely correct since it will be extremely easy to verify.

[aquart]

7. Anyone have an estimate on what the lawsuit will cost?

I'm assuming it's being filed as I type?

[blue neen]

9. So, in your daily "positive" post, you decide to pick on teachers.

Are you a teacher? All the teachers I know would be pretty upset with this school superintendent...and I wouldn't blame them.

Do you expect to be paid when you work extra hours? I do.

[ananda]

11. This is called a set-up.

The whole plan from the get-go was to have an excuse
to hire less experienced teachers who would work
longer hours for much less pay.

[Cronus Protagonist]

14. This thread is a set-up

See what we found when we scratched the surface?

[Jakes Progress]

13. Now we use neocon papers as sources?

There is already a thread on this where far too many DUers are attacking the lazy teachers. gomer norquist is ecstatic.

[nosmokes]

16. this is known as breaking the contract.See, that's why the teachers have a

union and negotiated a collective bargaining agreement w/ the city or the school district or whoever. They're all professionals(or supposed to be) and came to an agreement and signed on the dotted line.You don't renegotiate in the middle of the run. That's the same as changing the rules in the middle of the game.

[Gman]

17. reads liked a faux news story

[5X]

18. Teachers around here don't make anywhere near that kind of money.

I doubt seriously that this is a nationwide trend.

[struggle4progress]

19. Firing of Central Falls teachers still undecided

By Mia DiBenedetto
Managing Editor, turnto10.com
Published: February 15, 2010

PROVIDENCE - Rhode Island Education Commissioner Deborah Gist has one week to decide if Central Falls’ school superintendent can go ahead with a plan to fire all of the teachers at the high school ...

http://www2.turnto10.com/jar/news/local/article/firing_of_central_falls_teachers_still_undecided/31473/

[baldguy]

24. Now why would we want an unbiased news source?

:sarcasm:

[Hawkeye-X]

72. Deborah Gist has only one plausible choice - fire the superintendent

and approve whatever contract the teachers want as long as it is reasonable.

Rehire the teachers with back pay and promise that the contract will be valid.

I'll dig for Ms. Gist's email and you can input on it.

Found it - if it's the same format, it should be as follows:

[e-mail]

DU it up!

[struggle4progress]

23. Teaching salary summary page for the state of Rhode Island

... Salary range: $35,563 - $70,190
Average teacher salary: $53,473 ... http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/average-teacher-salary-rhode-island.html

[bc3000]

33. They are lying about the teachers' pay

according to the comments in this blog entry:

http://newsblog.projo.com/2010/02/ed-commissioner-gist-prepared.html


"I still can't believe it... median pay $72,000 a year?

When did I get a $20,000 pay raise????? Remember teachers are professionals - most have completed an average of 6-8 years of college. We are mandated to complete profession development for IPlans - many of these we pay for ourselves. "

[HBravo]

47. You are underpaid

www.warwickonline.com

/view/full_story_news/5777157/artical-Top-step-teacher-pay-limits-budget-options?instance=home_news_2nd_left

[Zoeisright]

105. Oh that's a bunch of crap.

My husband doesn't make anywhere near $72,000 a year. Not even close. And he's got a master's degree.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

96. While not really germane to the key issues here

not all degrees are created equal. Ed degrees are uniformly considered to be the easiest to get/least challenging. Also a degree in English does not represent the same level of difficulty or achievement as one in Physics. This is also reflected in the marketplace where physicists make more money than English majors.

[eilen]

123. It really depends on where your affinity and talent lies

i know tech people who would rather die than have to deal with a room filled with 30 children. I am certain student teaching courses involving this would be very difficult for them. Some people are better with the abstract, the impersonal, the sure thing -- numbers behave the same every time you manipulate them, they don't have feelings.

Discrediting and downplaying the importance of liberal arts and education theory/application is not conducive to cultural and social development. Education degrees cost the same per credit hour as physics, biology and computer programming. If they are worth so much less, why charge the same-- Is that a fraud? Also, my husband, while he has a degree in English, is an Electrician who apprenticed after graduation. He worked as a substitute teacher for a short time and has no desire to revisit that fresh hell. He now works at a nuclear plant and his apprenticeship was paid (no loans) and I think in his best years he was earning more than twice as much as any marine biologist or lab rat. His apprenticeship program did not require anything more than a high school diploma. He had always found math and science easier to understand but has a tendency to challenge himself which is why he chose to major in English in college. And yes, he is union IBEW.

Teachers are expected to produce direct measurable results by instructing and modifying the behavior of our largely unmotivated young. Some of these kids are underfed, overtired, hyperactive and oppositional.

Whoever is stuck with my nephew David in a classroom has my direct sympathy and is clearly earning every penny and then some. One must also take into account the school curriculums. My son was barely passing 7th grade in a private Catholic school in my city in NY. We temporarily moved to a rural community in Tennessee where he suddenly was pulling B's in every class. He tells me the work was easier. We are now back in NY where he attends a public high school in a suburban district and his grades are spotty, maybe an A, B and a couple D's and usually one F-- he is inconsistent and the grades change every quarter with different subjects getting the F or A. He also has PDD and is one very intelligent inquisitive kid. He just has trouble juggling the different classes. If he had 3 subjects a term, I think he would do well. I believe the rural southern school had a relatively less costly 4H curriculum (their schools are not as funded as the schools in NY). The pigeons will roost come time for college where I believe my nieces and nephews will be unfairly challenged.

Another example: Nurses attend a two year program as requirement to sit for the licensure. Sure, it is a rigorous two years. However we are often working long hours, presented with unbelieveable stress, poor working conditions and abusive people (Drs, patients, etc) and are usually paid annually close to what teachers make. (Of course we work holidays, nights, summers, weekends but when we go home, we leave work at work). If we were evaluated based on our patients health compliance we would all be out of jobs. We teach proper diet, exercise, medication protocols, congestive heart failure management, diabetic care etc. but do our patients follow these directions? Judging by our ED admissions I would say no. I'd like to see them try and fire us-- who would want our jobs? One floor in a non union hospital just decided that despite it being a one-day surgery center that closes at 9 pm. It is now a 24 hour patient holding center and has just informed its nurses they would have to cover night shifts and they had no plans to hire more nurses. How would you like that at your job? They will have to float some nurses from other floors to help cover this making those floors even shorter staffed.

These schools and hospitals are very lucky their employees care so much about their students and patients because otherwise the teachers and nurses would walk out en masse. Then some of these posters who think that their work, knowledge and training are so worthless and ineffective can eat their words. I hardly think social order would be horribly impacted if the engineers at Lockheed Martin decided to walk out.

[Jim Sagle]

36. Piece of shit scab thread. K & U.

[Dr.Phool]

44. Bingo!

I've seen some idiots on here support replacing union state janitorial workers with prison inmates.

This country is going to hell in a handbasket.

[struggle4progress]

45. " ... If it doesn’t work, if the changes are made, and teachers teach their buns off and

the all important numbers don’t come up, teachers can be sure of at least one thing. They can be sure that when people go looking for those to blame, they will look at teachers before they look at all those things that put kids in a huge hole before they even reach the schoolhouse door."
Bob Kerr: Raising the bar for both teachers and students
01:00 AM EST on Friday, February 12, 2010
http://www.projo.com/news/bobkerr/kerr_column_12_02-12-10_UCHDPUT_v13.3987784.html

[bluestateguy]

46. I wonder what kind of crappy parents inhabit this school district

Don't think that that doesn't have a major impact; maybe more major than the teachers.

Too many dimwits have children they either cannot afford or won't spend the time to raise. Or both.

[baldguy]

48. Same as usually end up in under-performing school districts.

Poor, uneducated, non-English speaking with minimum or below-minimum wage non-union jobs.

They're what the GOP wants to remake the Middle Class into. There, but by the grace of God go you & I.

[pundaint]

97. You are wrong - the GOP wouldn't mind if they spoke English

[bread_and_roses]

54. And here we have the obligatory attack on parents

with a veiled slam at "welfare" to boot. A two for one!

There are an awful lot of kids in this country who are not doing too well at school. An awful lot of them are in schools serving poor communities - both urban and rural.

We can do one of two* things:

1. lay the blame on parents for being unable to overcome poverty, bad health care, underfunded schools, decrepit communities, violence, the general trend of ever increasing wealth/income disparity to Gilded Age levels, the lack of opportunity for their children, and the general wealth/fame/consumerist thrust of US culture. Never mind the irrationality of concluding that entire communities are made up of lousy, lazy parents who don't care about or attempt to care for their children.

2. Address those larger social problems that make it near impossible for many parents to devote either the time or resources necessary to their children's well-being and development. Things like fair funding for all schools, appropriate classroom size and staff, adequate equipment, before-and-after school care and programs, communities with resources - safe parks, libraries, community-wide wireless, and decent jobs with wages that will support a family.

Obviously, the first is easier and more emotionally satisfying, laying blame as it does with no possibility of solution other than the useless "they shoulds" directed at parents.

You takes your pick, I'll take mine.

*actually, there is a third choice. In combination with #2, devise a saner, safer way to raise children other than in the nuclear family. However, I do not put it forward seriously, since all the indicators I see are that said nuclear family will be writhing in its death throes for some time yet.

edit: spelling

[zogofzorkon]

75. +1

[Sixties guy]

49. Good

I have spent years trying to get our suburban affluent school district to make even modest modifications in my daughter with Down Syndrome's curriculum. The attitude among her tenured teachers has been that no individualized program is needed and that she should return to a segregated classroom. The school board's actions may be extreme but it is nice to see some accountability.

[lib_wit_it]

52. There is plenty of accountability for teachers. And plenty of lawyers willing to take on a case like

you claim to have, often to be paid only from what's won.

I'm sorry if your child's needs are not being met, but teachers are often expected to meet the individual needs of every single student, no matter how many students, nor how disparate and severe the problems. Some things are just impossible, and teachers are not miracle workers. And you probably are in the "pay the teachers less" crowd, which would make for less experienced teachers and/or more crowded classrooms.

[tonysam]

55. It's a class action suit waiting to happen.

This is all about getting rid of people in order to save money.

The superintendent should be canned on her worthless ass and the school board as well.

[Sixties guy]

116. Not really

The litigation process in NY mandates a good faith reconciliation effort before one cna pursue a suit. So when we insisted on getting our daughter included in a mainstreamed English class we retained a very fine attorney at our expense to represent us. The school met our demands including picking up the cost of a consultant from an out of the area university. However, when it came time to actually implement any suggestions, the teachers did not do so. For example, the district has not provided voice media for my daughters' textbooks. If we were to bring the lawyers back in, it would be at our expense until the district failed to respond to an initial legal proceeding. The district's strategy is to fold once a lawyer is retained before they put themselves into a position where they can incur legal costs. Sort of a war by attrition forcing us to incur expenses over each item

My counter strategy is to avail myself of the brief free speech period before our school board meets to voice my dissatisfaction. Since these meetings tend to be congratulatory in nature, I am kind of the skunk at the picnic.

The entire process has left me bitter cynical and utterly devoid of respect for the school administrators. I have some regard for a few of my daughters teachers but I repeat, educators in NY are not accountable.

[Iowa]

98. Just a few brief observations from someone who has been there and done that...

1) If you have spent "years" trying to get modest modifications, you probably aren't doing it right.

2) It is usually administrators, not teachers, who are at the root of such problems. Focus on administrators.

3) Ruthlessness is often required. School administrators can be some of the most ignorant and malignant people on the planet.

4) The fiasco described in this article isn't about "accountability". It's about union-busting. Accountability of the type you describe is an entirely different matter.

[Delphinus]

50. Jeez -

when I first read it I saw "HIRE" not "FIRE" - holy shit!

[hayu_lol]

67. Trying to put all those extra jobs on the backs of teachers...

is almost criminal if there is not sufficient pay to cover the hours...looks like their work week would be roughly 60 hours plus.

Standards would certainly go down. None of the above hour changes include the usual work done by teachers at home at nights on their own time. I personally hope that this is a very strong union capable of really doing a job on this superintendent and local board. Hourly workers would not touch such additional hours unless they were all considered overtime--because that is what it is.

Stop and consider the 60% raise offered the CEO of AMEX, the Hundred Million dollar raise for the CEO of Goldman, and all the rest of the extravagant raises/perks/bonuses and so on for the Kings and Queens of Pork...the people who put us in this bind to start with.

Students now training to enter the teaching profession are spending roughly 75,000 to 150,000 for their training. There are grants and loans, but not all students qualify for them. Having to pay that back is backbreaking. Teacher entry pay is very low in most school districts...our district starts them at about $28,000. A bit more with a Masters. It is clearly time for the 'squeeze' to start at the top, not at the bottom.

From the article, seems clear that the super wants to be a local hero. If she fires all the teachers in one fell swoop, perhaps the teachers should consider going home and staying there until the union can make some headway.

I noted that there was some improvement in math scores for 8th graders over the past year. Not much, but a little. Load all these extra functions on the backs of already busy teachers is insane if one wants the product to improve. It probably isn't the lack of extra money that concerns most teachers...it is the burden of all those extra hours. After school, before school, once a week lunch with the students, extra after school training sessions, extra summer training...how does one fit that many new add on hours in an already busy day?

And yeah...I've been a shop steward with IAM, have been with AFofM, Retail Clerks, and Teamsters. Bad economy or no...these teachers and their union should walk if there are not serious changes made in this plan.

[struggle4progress]

59. Link to the current contract

Central Falls Teachers’ Union
Local 1567
Rhode Island Federation of Teachers
American Federation of Teachers
AFL-CIO - September 1, 2008 - August 31, 2011
http://www.ntlongcber.com/cber/docs/_CF.htm

[yurbud]

61. was the ''reform'' charter schools and more testing? or union-busting and outsourcing teaching?

[Caretha]

74. Yep ....

tag team bullshit post.

Could you guys quit being so obvious.

[No Elephants]

77. Sign of Aging--I can remember when most Democrats were pro-union, period.

God, I miss classic Democrats.

God, I miss classic America.

[tonysam]

78. +1,000

There's NO excuse for anybody posting on a Democratic site peddling neoliberal nonsense about education.

[boppers]

83. "3 percent of 11th graders are proficient in math in 2008 and 7 percent in 2009."

They're arguing about increasing compensation, for increased work, when 93-97 percent of their work isn't even being done properly *in the first place*?

This turned in a pro/anti union thread, but I sure as hell wouldn't justify a UAW labor dispute if 93-97% of the cars they were making were undrivable.

[Heathen57]

85. Comparing cars and children sounds

very Republican to me. They don't take the time to figure out between manufactured items and people either (Creationists watchmaker theory).

I've never seen a car refuse to accept a bolt or an adjustment to a door, but I've seen children who simply cannot or will not learn. It is caused by a whole list of problems, many of which are caught up in the economy. But very seldom have I seen an entire school of over 100 teachers who suddenly didn't care and/or are incapable of teaching.

The Union is correct in refusing this woman's demands. The Republican model has always been that you keep piling on hours and responsibilities until the employee cracks, then you buy yourself a new one. That is basically what this Super is trying to do.

I hope the Union goes in and stops the district cold. Something that this woman hasn't thought of is that the elementary, and middle schools are Union as well, I would imagine. She could have a massive strike on her hands where the entire district is shut down. And any teacher with brains will not scab because they would be alone if and when the Union teachers come back. No help, nobody to take her/his place and so on.

[mbperrin]

88. I haven't seen the Rhode Island test, either, or the rules of use.

In Texas, for instance, the 10th grade TAKS test scores are used for school accountability, to rate teacher results. Student suffer no consequence of any kind for failing to finish the test, scribbling on it, making patterns with the answer ovals, or other vandalism. The scores don't count for students in any way, just their schools.

The 11th grade test MUST be passed for students to graduate. Any guesses on whether 11th scores are higher than 10th? Yes, they are MILES higher, BUT 11th grade scores CANNOT be used by districts to show improvement. NEXT YEAR'S 10th grade scores are used for comparison,even though the test is different, as well as the students taking it. This isn't even a valid way to test.

If you think it sounds like a great way to get charter schools going, to take public money and put it into private hands, BINGO! You win the prize.

Meaningful results? nah....

[boppers]

122. I'm not sure what you're saying...

"scribbling on it, making patterns with the answer ovals, or other vandalism" is a measure of discipline? Education? Training?

[boppers]

99. "Comparing cars and children"?

Okay, lets avoid cars.

In what industry would a 90% failure rate be acceptable?

[Bluesbreaker]

91. Doh! Maybe the problem isn't the teachers

Here’s some of what jumped out at me from the article:

Students Friday expressed sadness, frustration and dismay at learning that their teachers would be fired en masse. Most had no idea why their teachers were being let go.

“They are very sweet,” said André Monteiro, 19, a senior. “They help us out and get the job done. They treat us with respect.”

“It’s sad,” said Jessica Lemur, another senior. “They stay when we need help. They love us. I was shocked when I heard the rumors.”

A couple of parents said they were stunned by the announcement and said they blamed students, not teachers, for the high school’s consistently poor performance.

“It’s not fair,” said Angela Perez, who has a daughter at the high school. “They shouldn’t be punished because the students are lazy.”

“The teachers care so much,” said Perez’s daughter, Ivannah Perez, a recent Central Falls graduate. “I’ve seen them stay after school. I’ve seen them struggle. It’s the students. They don’t want to learn.”

Most teachers declined to talk as they left school yesterday. But a couple of teachers paused long enough to share their thoughts.

Sheila Lawless-Burke, an English-as-a-Second Language teacher, said teachers are not opposed to working harder — or longer; they simply want the opportunity to negotiate the details of their contract, not have it imposed from above.

“It’s all about the politics,” she said, “about making Fran Gallo look good. The issue is having the right to negotiate. Once we allow the superintendent to get her foot in the door, where will it stop?”

A couple of things to consider:
this school serves the most economically disadvantaged neighborhood. As has been demonstrated repeatedly, the lower the income group, the more difficult it is to teach because of poor basic skills, lack of parental involvement, cultural and language barriers to education

It’s very difficult to recruit teachers to work in such districts, typically new,inexperienced teachers are assigned to these areas and as soon as they have sufficient seniority, they leave. There is a chronic teacher shortage in many areas. A degree plus certification, plus ongoing professional development requirements means you have people who have invested a lot of time and money to qualify for these jobs. Jobs with equivalent level of education generally pay much higher. Obviously, they are teaching because they want to help their students. But from my past experience as a teacher, if the parents don't support you, it's not going to make a lot of difference in most cases how good a teacher you are.

[boppers]

121. Yay, the teachers made them happy, but not educated.

Perhaps education should be the goal, not happiness.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

89. I think the attacks in the source for the OP are misplaced

The facts appear to be that the superintendent will indeed take the "fire all of them approach". Hard to spin that since it is so easily verifiable. The anger here over the issue should be directed at who is making those decisions, presuming the basic facts are correct. Some seem to get that, others do not.

[Bluesbreaker]

92. this should be familiar to you

Based on the flag icon on your post, I'm guessing you're familiar with the furloughs in Hawaii. There are a lot of similarities between what's happening in Central Falls and what's happening in Hawaii, except in Hawaii it's the governor, not the Superintendent and the BOE, who is trying to furlough teachers.

What if teacher evaluations were based on student test scores on Oahu? Would you rather teach in Waipahu or in East Honolulu at Kalani or Kaiser? There are some excellent teachers in Kalihi and Wainane schools, but they are fighting an uphill battle, given the number of kids who come from homes where the parents don't speak English, don't have the resources to provide support and often never went far in school themselves--or just don't care about academic achievement. You could take the faculty from Punahou and move them to Kalahi Kai, Dole Intermediate and Farrington and I doubt test scores would change for the better.

The issue at stake in both places isn't pay; it's the right to bargain. Teachers are willing to work for less pay in economic hard times, but as you know, there are a lot of non-cost items in the contract. To arbitrarily take away the right to negotiate a contract, like Lingle tried to do in June, is simply union busting. Fortunately, her attempt to furlough DOE employees from UPW, HGEA and HSTA was quickly overturned by the courts. I hope the same thing happens in Central Falls.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

95. I am quite familiar with the situation in Honolulu...its not analogous, though some parts are common

The issue in Hawaii was $$$. The issue in Central Falls is student performance. Lingle could have raised revenue, but chose not to. In Central Falls, the actions being taken are supported by state and Federal law.

In both cases the unionized teachers are being shafted. After losing in court, Lingle immediately went to pink slips which she does have the authority to do, and basically the union had a choice...furloughs and protect the jobs or layoffs with no pay cuts for the survivors. I believe they are currently negotiating furloughs, though I do not follow it daily.

In Central Falls, the law could override the contract. I have to believe it went through a legal review before the district went that route so its not a cut and dried as some of our online legal beagles would have us think. There is also some precedent on the district side as well. Before somebody cries foul, remember that some contract provisions can be overridden by the law, even if the contract predates the legislation. And example in California is Solar Rights Act which declares that HOA rules and/or CC&Rs can not prevent the installation of solar energy devices. Note that I have better taste than to be a lawyer, YMMV, and other disclaimers apply.

I am going to watch this with some interest and have a personal stake in the outcome. I have had to take furlough days in my current position in the California system and we too have a contract.

Despite all of the above, my point here was to ask why some people were so hung up on the cited references and not the facts. As you rightly pointed out, they are scary in several ways.

[superconnected]

90. Where is Central Falls? I'm trying to figure out if Gallo is the wicked witch of the East or West.

[WhiteTara]

100. well that will teach those students!

er...I mean teachers! Who will they bring in? Janitors?

[dugaresa]

106. Has there ever been an upper middle class school district that is failing?

Have you ever seen a community with stable employment, good jobs and nice houses and well maintained buildings/schools that is failing?

I have never seen it.


However what i have witnessed are economically depressed areas where there is little hope and little incentive that are failing. hmmm wonder what the problem is?

[marshall]

110. Why are they "one of the worst performing schools in the state"?

That issue has to be addressed. Both sides need to get together and figure it out, "for the children".

[CreekDog]

117. This will teach the best teachers at that school a valuable lesson

Never teach at a bad school. :wtf:

[CreekDog]

118. Working more for less, when has that strategy ever provided excellence?

:eyes: