US troops executing prisoners in Afghanistan, journalist says

[kpete]

Source: Raw Story

US troops executing prisoners in Afghanistan, journalist says

By David Edwards
Wednesday, May 12th, 2010 -- 9:16 am

US troops executing prisoners in Afghanistan, journalist says

At the Global Investigative Journalism Conference in Geneva, Hersh criticized President Barack Obama, and alleged that US forces are engaged in "battlefield executions."

"I'll tell you right now, one of the great tragedies of my country is that Mr. Obama is looking the other way, because equally horrible things are happening to prisoners, to those we capture in Afghanistan," Hersh said. "They're being executed on the battlefield. It's unbelievable stuff going on there that doesn't necessarily get reported. Things don't change.:

"What they've done in the field now is, they tell the troops, you have to make a determination within a day or two or so whether or not the prisoners you have, the detainees, are Taliban," Hersh added. "You must extract whatever tactical intelligence you can get, as opposed to strategic, long-range intelligence, immediately. And if you cannot conclude they're Taliban, you must turn them free.

"What it means is, and I've been told this anecdotally by five or six different people, battlefield executions are taking place," he continued. "Well, if they can't prove they're Taliban, bam. If we don't do it ourselves, we turn them over to the nearby Afghan troops and by the time we walk three feet the bullets are flying. And that's going on now."

Read more: http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0512/hersh-battlefield-executions-continue-obama/

[havocmom]

1. I have officially lost any hope of significant change

If Obama does not haul his top commanders in and replace them, he is asking for a trip to the Hague.

[No Elephants]

40. Except, that's what we thought about Bushco. Meanwhile, Dummya and cheney are running around giving

speeches and writing books, not to mention Obama's asking Dummya to go to Haiti with President Clinton. Sure, that might have opened up some Republican wallets, but it was also an honor and there has to be some Republican who did not commit war crimes who cold have accompanied Big Dog.

[Mojeoux]

47. If Young People Were DRAFTED,

Would we hear more from the public?

I don't think military families ever speak up about horrors and atrocities.

They are scared to come forward with PTSD.

[totodeinhere]

58. Sadly, committing war crimes has become business as usual. It has been happening in the name

of this country for a long time, and I don't see it stopping anytime soon.

[msongs]

2. one does not seek investigation of one's predecessor if one is doing the same things eh? nt

[Robb]

3. "...I've been told this anecdotally by five or six different people!"

OK, Seymour.

[dkf]

6. He needs some proof. Are journalistic standards normally so loose?

[SusanaMontana41]

37. Hersh has a pretty good track record. Excellent, in fact.

If he outs his sources, what do you think will happen to them? Do you think any other sources he needs and cultivates would trust him, ever? We NEED Hersh in the field. His sources typically are high-level and spot on.

If Hersh is reporting it, I tend to believe it.

[No Elephants]

41. I think I'd know exactly how many people I'd heard it from, even if I did not name them.

I understand unnamed sources. I don't understand not being able to count to six correctly and with certainty. Unless maybe he deliberately obscured the number for some reason, too.

[SusanaMontana41]

53. What I take from that is

he's hearing the same thing from more than one source. He may be obscuring the number deliberately, maybe not. Who cares whether it's five and he said six? I don't.
I do care whether or not he's accurate about what the U.S. is doing in our names. Most of the time he's right. That's all that matters to me.

If you don't want to believe him, don't believe him. I don't particularly care what you think of him. Nothing personal. :) Nice to meet you!

[Robb]

43. But he's not.

If he were "reporting" it, he'd have to be able to back it up to an editor, at least.

He's just talking, which is a much lower bar. He absolutely knows the difference, too, which means it's intentional.

Which should make us all wonder what he's got up his sleeve, as I think about it.

[SusanaMontana41]

52. I'm trying to see your point

Am sure his copy is edited by someone, but have no idea what arrangement he has with his editors. As for "just talking," he is sharing information. That's reporting. Does it have to be written or published to be a report? I don't understand what you're driving at.

I don't worry about what he may have "up his sleeve," but I dread hearing from him, because it usually means the U.S. is doing something it shouldn't be doing. More times than not — with or without naming his sources — Hersh is proved correct.

You can believe him or not. Let's not quibble about that!

:hi:

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Robb]

59. Look, Mickey Mouse

...I'm no cheerleader. I've got a record going on 10 years here to prove it. Who the hell are you, exactly?

[RainMickey]

60. Who the hell am I you ask?

A principled Obama voter who feels betrayed. Makes sense? Probably not.

[cliffordu]

27. Really.

[ShortnFiery]

4. Tragically it's another case of "out of sight - out of mind." Yes, TRAGIC.

http://pubrecord.org/world/6451/forces-executing-afghanistan/

Once again, the American media are falling down shamefully in providing honest reporting on a war, making it difficult for the American people to make informed judgements about what is being done in their name.

Let’s be clear here. If the charges are correct, that American forces, or American-led forces, are handcuffing their victims and executing them, then they are committing egregious war crimes. If they are killing children, they are committing equally egregious war crimes. If they are handcuffing and executing children, the atrocity is beyond horrific. This indeed, would actually be worse than the infamous war crime that occurred in My Lai during the Vietnam War.
In that case, we had ordinary soldiers in the field, acting under the orders of several low-ranking officers in the heat of an operation, shooting and killing women and children. But in this case we appear to have seasoned special forces troops actually directing the taking captives, cuffing them, herding them into a room, and spraying them with bullets, execution style.

Given the history of the commanding general in Afghanistan, General Stanley McChrystal, who ran a massive death squad operation in Iraq before being named to his current post by President Obama, and who is known to have called for the same kind of operation in Afghanistan, it should not be surprising that the US would now be committing atrocities in Afghanistan. If this is how this war is going to be conducted, though, the US media should be making a major effort to uncover and expose the crime.

[dkf]

5. They capture these guys and let them go and then the freed guys try to kill them.

What are they supposed to do? It sounds like kill or be killed.

[mike_c]

8. that's what happens during wars of aggression against people who've done nothing...

...to threaten you. You invade their country, occupy it, kill them by the tens or hundreds of thousands and what? The ungrateful WOGs resist subjugation.

Imagine that.

[dkf]

13. We send our guys there. They aren't to blame either.

[atreides1]

20. No "we" didn't send them. And yes they are.

They were sent there by the Bush administration, and yes they are responsible for their own actions. They don't get a free pass, the Geneva Conventions are very clear as are the Rules of War.

It doesn't matter what uniform you wear, if you are executing prisoners in the field, you have committed a war crime!

By your reasoning the SS wasn't to blame for the atrocities they committed, after all they were sent there, and it was "kill or be killed".

[dkf]

26. Except when they stop being a prisoner then they are back to being the combatant?

Maybe the point should be don't release them.

[frylock]

35. or maybe the point should be that you don't round up every male 18-35..

because they fit a profile. or perhaps you're one of those kill em all and let gawd sort em out types.

[mike_c]

22. no one is responsible for their actions, huh?

eom

[ronnie624]

10. Imagine trying to kill invaders of your country.

Whoever heard of such a thing?

[dkf]

15. So you agree these prisoners are all threats who will try to kill our guys?

And they would be kind of stupid to free them?

Frankly i don't think we should be in Afghanistan. Pakistan should be the focus. But while we are there I don't see how we can expect our guys to be sitting targets.

[ronnie624]

17. I see your point.

It would probably be best to shoot all prisoners immediately, just in case.

[dkf]

21. It's a rock and a hard place.

Actually it sounds like they need a detention process to keep these hostiles contained until we are ready to go.

What woukd you do? Would you let them all go knowing as soon as you do they will try to kill you?

[ronnie624]

29. What would I do?

I hope I wouldn't have invaded their country, in the first place.

[No Elephants]

42. the only alternatives with prisoners are to let them go or execute them on the spot?

I thougt another option was inherent in the word "prisoner." Maybe I've just seen too many war movies on TV. Or our military haven't seen enough.

I don't know if this story is true. If it is, I'm sure Halliburton or Bechtel would do us the favor of taking another exhorbitant, no bid contract for building a prison somewhere we could put thses folks in. Preferably before we torture and/or execute them in the field.

[sharp_stick]

7. Being told something anecdotally does not

make for even the scantest of evidence.

[mike_c]

9. "I saw something happen" is an anecdote....

It's also a journalistic source. A single source. Add another, independent corroborating anecdote and both gain support. Add five or six more and that's well on the way to being "evidence." Eye witness testimony is indeed good evidence, as long as it's supported and corroborated by independent testimony or by physical evidence. I would imagine that there is considerably pressure to conceal any of the later in Afghanistan.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

11. that's how he broke the My Lai massacre story

so that sorta invalidates your "thought".

[Robb]

31. No, actually, he built sources and evidence and then reported.

It was textbook.

[grantcart]

14. Hersh is credible and it needs to be investigated

Even by his account it doesn't appear to be widespread but still Hersh's record is good.

[HughMoran]

18. agreed

This must be investigated.

[No Elephants]

44. If five sources give you the information independently, that's fairly credible, IMO..

Most writers think it fine to get one source to corroborate another.

Thing is, is this guy telling the truth about getting the info from five or six people?

As for "anecdotally," I don't think it belongs in his sentence. Either five people told him or they didn't.

[jody]

12. Given the media attention to such things and commanders/troops trying to avoid incidents the report

is probably grossly exaggerated.

The way to avoid more incidents is to bring our troops home immediately and Commander in Chief has that authority.

[Mari333]

16. jesus f krist. hope and change. pfft. crapola.

[Akoto]

19. Sorry, but I need more than his word on this sort of allegation.

Could it be true? Absolutely, no doubt about it. It's still a serious allegation, but anyone can make those. Give us a taped admission from a reliable source, a picture, video, documents. Something more than anecdotes.

[grantcart]

23. Hersh's record on these types of incidents has been very good

It should be investigated.

[Akoto]

25. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be investigated, but ...

I still need more before I jump to conclusions. He's a journalist, supposedly a very skilled one. He should already be doing the investigating. If someone told him this, then he should obtain something more than anecdotal reports with which to reinforce the story. If Hersh can dig that up, then people will have a hard time turning a blind eye, whether they want to or not.

[grantcart]

33. I see your point but Hersh is a little old to go to Afghanistan

[Pavulon]

45. Like the oil bourse war with Iran?

I'll wait for a real source.

[mike_c]

24. that is EXACTLY how many people responded to My Lai, Abu Ghraib, etc....

Healthy skepticism is a good thing as long as it doesn't become willful blindness to uncomfortable truths.

[Akoto]

28. I don't have uncomfortable truths. I have uncomfortable allegations.

Perhaps it's a fault of mine, but I like to have more than hearsay before I jump to conclusions. I'll not decide based upon Hersh's report just because other terrible things have happened in past and present times. That isn't willful blindness, it's a responsibility to seek the truth. Anyone can say anything, but that isn't the irrefutable proof one would need to prosecute this.

As well, I am not comfortable with the implication that I approve of things like My Lai and Abu Ghraib. If you're concerned, I have years of posts here to be dug through. I think you'll find that I'm no fan of our military's misdeeds.

[mike_c]

30. I'm sorry-- I think you mistook my intent....

My comment was a general observation, not intended as criticism. I know exactly how you feel and I respect it. I'm perhaps a bit more willing to give Seymour Hersh the benefit of the doubt because of his demonstrated journalistic courage and integrity, but as you imply, there is a wide gulf between accepting the likely truth of his allegations and providing the proof needed to make them irrefutable.

I cited My Lai and Abu Ghraib as examples of times when Hersh has revealed events that were widely disputed initially-- I remember people vociferously denying My Lai. I didn't mean to suggest that you approved at all.

[elias49]

32. The problem is ACCESS. The press is discouraged

if nor barred, from accessing the truth.
Or blown apart by Apache attack helicopters.

[No Elephants]

46. Exactly. There is middle ground between frog marching our troops (and their CIC) to the Hague

and dismissing statements out of hand.

[EFerrari]

36. We already know this is happening. We get reports all the time

about drones killing civilians and there was that tape of the helicopter firing and killing people that went viral.

This really isn't news if we're just willing to see what we are looking at.

[ronnie624]

50. The memories of far too many seem to very selective and very short. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. But, executing them is for their own good! It's for their own freedom and democracy!

[Lagomorph]

38. If there is one thing that flies more than anything else...

...it's bullshit in a war zone.

Show me some proof.

[IndianaGreen]

39. Probably under the direct orders of their Commander-in-Chief

Ever heard of the Yamashita principle?

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2199&dat=19710324&id=n5UyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HucFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6107,2934613

[Kringle]

48. the penalty for invading another tribe's area is harsh

shot by Americans

or

shot by the locals

[classysassy]

49. If war is a racket

we need to round up the racketeers and kick them out of office.All peace loving citizens should vote for men and women that will stop the madness .

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The abyss]

54. I feel so proud!

This was then.

<>

I don’t see any difference in the here and now.

[pettypace]

55. where is this photo from?

Cannot get over the fatalistic nature of it.

[Solly Mack]

56. ...