Born Illegal

[Ed Barrow]

Source: Arizona Capitol Times

Arizona’s new immigration law has yet to take effect, but Sen. Russell Pearce has already moved on to the next step in his quest to rid Arizona of illegal immigrants: deny birth certificates to children born in the U.S. to non-citizen parents.

But that’s not all. Pearce said he also wants to require students who are here illegally to pay tuition to attend public schools.

The proposals, which Pearce said he plans to introduce as legislation next year, are part of a coordinated strategy by Pearce and groups such as the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) to remove all incentives for illegal immigrants to live in the U.S.

“My issue is protecting the taxpayers. You can’t come here illegally and not be a legal resident and expect the taxpayers to pick up your tab,” Pearce said.


Read more: http://azcapitoltimes.com/blog/2010/06/04/born-illegal/

[Scuba]

1. With the way the job market is going, these soon won't be any incentives to come.

[nichomachus]

15. Actually, the flow has been in the other direction for some time already

The claims of hordes of millions of people assaulting our borders is just a lie.

[ProudDad]

34. Many folks have already left...

This law is all about VOTER SUPPRESSION -- keeping my brown brothers and sisters afraid to vote...

And to prop up Jan Brewer's lagging campaign for governor -- she was facing tea-bagger opposition that was seriously cutting into her slim lead -- so she singed this POS...

[The Croquist]

43. How is this about voter suppression?

The current law is about illegal immigration. The last I knew people in this country illegally aren't allowed to vote so if you think that the current law is more likely to prevent illegal aliens from voting I've got no problem with it.

I do have a problem charging illegal immigrants to attend public schools. They and their parents should be deported instead. I don't care if they were infants when they came here they are still here illegally.

On the other hand if a person is born here they are a US citizen and have every right to a public education. In that case deport the parents.

Cold hearted? yes but I've never had much sympathy for criminals.

[AlphaCentauri]

45. Criminals? workers are criminals?

just thinking how many republicans could be elected if there were no undocumented worker.

[MellowDem]

54. Go to Europe illegally..

and work there under the table. You will be treated as a "criminal" who committed a "crime". It's funny, the Republicans try to solve the problem of illegal immigration with only going after the illegal immigrants themselves with policies that obviously won't work. At the same time, business Republican elites love illegal immigration and of course they never go after the businesses that hire them. The problem for the business-Republicans (usually thought of as "moderate") is that they are losing control of their party to their frothing base. And their base doesn't care about business, it cares about the culture war and demographics.

[sakabatou]

2. Ugh...

[bluestateguy]

3. Plyer v. Doe

Hit tuition plan is just a gimmick that would be DOA before reaching the Supreme Court.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plyler_v._doe

[EFerrari]

4. What an idiot. What is Arizona going to do when a big chunk of their tax base decamps?

Republicans and their short-sighted bs are dangerous.

[Posteritatis]

22. Probably start blaming *legal* immigrants and upping the caliber on their footshooter. (nt)

[liberation]

29. Actually plenty of AZ business have already petitioned the state gov to overturn the law

They are hurting BIG time.

It turns out, them patriotic white kids are not flooding the fields to toil them for 12 hrs straight for less than minimum wage, who would have figured that one out eh?

[AlphaCentauri]

46. The minuteman and the tea baggers should volunteer

and serve the country doing those jobs

[MellowDem]

56. Obviously....

the only solution for jobs like that is to have horrible wages and labor standards that have to be staffed by slave, illegal labor. Or so the businesses will tell you.

[MellowDem]

55. Of course they have...

Republicans are supposed to be the party of business. They love to have their cheap slave labor.

It turns out, those patriotic white kids are damn smart for not flooding to the fields to work 12 hours straight for less than minimum wage. Course, I don't see black kids or Asian kids or Lation kids streaming to do that either. Only illegals. Wonder why that is? But hey, if you think slave labor is cool and that people should work in those conditions, you must be an Arizona business that profits from it.

[dkf]

30. Isn't it their decision to make?

The voters of Arizona get to decide if illegal immigrants are a net asset or net liability to their state. We will see if the decrease in economic activity also decreases the costs of providing for these individuals.

It is possible that this could be a net positive as illegal workers are replaced with legal ones who are now out of jobs and are depending on government assistance. An American who is working generates more economic activity than an illegal worker who doesn't contribute to the tax base or any of our safety nets.

[ProudDad]

36. The "voters of Arizona" don't get to make up "facts"

This entire effort is based on a LIE...

Immigrants, "documented" or not contribute MUCH more to the economy and society than the folks who pass this crap...

This is about VOTER SUPPRESSION, NOT the dwindling number of undocumented workers in Arizona...

And check the facts; "Undocumented" migrants CONTRIBUTE MORE to the tax base than they take out in services.

Especially here in HEAVILY REGRESSIVE TAXED ARIZONA. Here they're are very friendly to the ubber-rich, have the lowest marginal rate in the country and very unkind to the rest of us --

Our sales tax will go up to 9.25% on July 1st...more than San Francisco's and we don't get crap for it...

Poor people pay SIGNIFICANTLY more in taxes than the rich here in the New Mississippi...

[MellowDem]

57. It's NOT about voter suppression...

that's a bunch of bullshit. It's ALL about pro-business attidues. It's funny. You know, Wal-Mart, overall, is good for the economy. But it is bad for labor, especially in certain industries, where they are simply shipped overseas.

Illegal immigrants are a boon for the economy. But so were slaves in the South. Does that make it right? And illegal immigrants DO displace labor of Americans in certain industries. But I guess if it's good for the economy as a whole, it's A-OK? Even if it hurts labor and treats humans like second-class citizens with no labor standards?

[jmowreader]

58. You neglect the root problem of illegal immigration

Employers who HIRE illegal immigrants LIKE illegal immigrants for two basic reasons: they work for less than minimum wage and they don't complain to the authorities.

Joe's Roofing can send whole crews out to jobsites with no personal protective equipment or serviceable ladders and pay them five bucks an hour for hauling 90-pound bundles of shingles up a bent ladder all day long. And he can dock their pay any time he wants...he needed 110 bundles of shingles and bought 100 because he can't measure a roof? Well Pedro, you must have wasted ten bundles of shingles, those are coming out of YOUR pay. You wanna complain about it? To who? I can call the INS any time I want and send your sorry ass back to Juarez and they won't do a thing to me!

If Joe had to pay legal wages, he'd also have to have PPE, safe equipment, pay worker's comp...if you're so cheap four or five dollars an hour is all you're willing to pay for labor, you're also too cheap to buy the proper tools and take safety precautions.

Same deal with lettuce pickers. Oh, you could probably hire Americans to do stoop labor, but you're not going to get one for the same wage an illegal Mexican will take--simply because it is against the law to pay someone that little. You don't think those employers are obeying every labor law except the one that says you can only hire people who are legal residents of the US.

[Jefferson23]

5. Sad and pathetic Pearce, go to hell. n/t

[SILVER__FOX52]

6. Sen. Russell Pearce

is bat shit crazy. God damn! Will somebody do something to stop these fools.

[truthisfreedom]

7. Ridiculous. Illegals pay far more in taxes already than they reap in benefits, compared to the

average US citizen. There've been numerous articles about this published in the last year alone. As I recall, the average illegal pays in more than 5 digits (over $10K) MORE than that illegal receives in services.

[Tempest]

10. Social Security taxes, for example

They pay in but get nothing in return.

[truthisfreedom]

12. Here's a link:

http://reason.org/news/show/122411.html

[dkf]

31. I don't know about Arizona but it costs 11,000 a year to educate one student in my state.

I doubt many illegal workers generate more than 11,000 in sales taxes a year much less 22,000, 33,000 or 44,000.

[LanternWaste]

32. I don;t generate that much either...

I don't generate that much either... :shrug:

[kdmorris]

8. How can you deny someone a birth certificate?

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

They can't change the constitution so they are trying to do an end run around. Problem is that EVERY country in the world will give a birth certificate to a child born in the borders of that country.

If I were on vacation in Mexico and had a child, that child would get a Mexican birth certificate. That doesn't make my child a Mexican citizen unless the constitution of Mexico allows that (which the US does).

If Arizona won't issue them a birth certificate then I guess that means there weren't born anywhere.

Dumbest thing ever...

[cstanleytech]

14. Saying no is easy but

getting the SCOTUS to agree that its constitutional is another thing all together and I suspect they would throw it out as unconstitutional or atleast I hope they would.

[kdmorris]

19. I hope so, too

I believe that they will likely disallow it, but it amazes me the dumb things people think up.

[pinboy3niner]

17. And return to the old problem of "stateless" refugees nt

[Posteritatis]

21. You can't; it'd be a law explicitly denying a US citizen their rights. (nt)

[kdmorris]

23. Good point

Since they aren't actually making them "non-citizens", it's just a denial of their rights. Without a birth certificate from SOMEWHERE, you can't start school or get immunizations, or a whole bunch of othere things.

[smaug]

26. Good point -

Under Pearce's new proposal, then we should retroactively apply it to all immigrants - especially whites of northern European descent, who are all immigrants. Wonder what ol' Joe "the Boss" Arpaio would say if this was applied to him, since his parents, under current law, would be classified as illegal immigrants.

For a nation which is nearly 95% descended from immigrants, this is hypocrisy of the most damning order.

[G. L. Herter]

39. 100%.

Actually, it's 100% immigrants. Some have just been here longer than others. :)

[ProudDad]

37. He can't...

Just as SB1070 will be ruled an unconstitutional usurpation of Federal Power...

This stupidity is also unconstitutional and will never go into effect if passed, and it will probably be passed here in bat-crap crazy Arizona unless Terry Goddard beats Jan Brewer...

By the way...

GOD DAMN YOU, JANET NAPOLITANO -- YOU FUCKING TRAITOR!!!!

YOU KNEW THIS SHIT WOULD HAPPEN AS SOON AS YOU LEFT TOWN!!!

But your ambition was more important than the peace and safety of us Arizonans... May you burn in hell for abandoning us to these cretins...

[treestar]

51. Bingo

And they would still be U.S. citizens; Arizona cannot trump federal law.

[Tempest]

9. What will AZ do when student enrollment drops

And all the federal funding the state receives based upon student enrollment dries up?

[liberation]

24. I believe they are already at the bottom in education rankings...

... so I don't think they are going to be too butt hurt about that one.

Plus some of the hick contingent down there carries their ignorance around like a patch of honor. After all, them loons have to be monumentally idiotic to label themselves after sexual acts (teabaggers) or faulty sexual performances (minutemen) without really pausing two seconds to reflect about their chosen monikers....

[ProudDad]

38. How much further down than 50th in the nation can we go? (n/t)

[AlphaCentauri]

47. Layoff US citizens, more unemployment. n/t

[Tempest]

11. This idea of removing citizenship is DOA

They would never get 2/3rds of the states to ratify the change.

[nichomachus]

16. Many other countries do this already

The US is one of very few places where you get citizenship just for being born there. In other countries, you only get citizenship is you are born in that country to people who have been legal residents for 5 years or more,

[primavera]

18. A little more complicated than that

You're right that jus solis (law of soil) is the minority approach to conferring citizenship, but the alternative approach is jus sanguinus, i.e., law of blood, whereby citizenship is imparted to immediate relatives regardless of where they are born. Not sure what you're referring to about the five year resident thing. I've studied citizenship in many countries and have never heard of one where citizenship can be conferred by someone who is only a permanent resident, i.e., not themselves a citizen, no matter how many years they've been a permanent resident.

[liberation]

25. That may be so...

... but unlike many of those countries, the US is a country made of immigrants. Biiiiiiig difference.

[nichomachus]

41. All countries saw major population influxes at some point in their history

It's just the way the world has worked

[David__77]

44. What does that mean though?

There are many peculiarities about US law, such as the first amendment.

[treestar]

52. Other countries can do what they want, but the U.S. was built by immigration

And was founded on the concept that bloodlines do no matter. We don't have royalty and corruption of blood. It would be unamerican to punish children for the actions of their parents.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

13. I'd take 100 illegal immigrants over this idiot.

[anthroguy101]

20. The "big secret" everyone knows is...

The state of Arizona is trying to get rid of liberalism through all of these "reforms." It's nothing short of fascism. What they're really doing is committing economic and (hopefully) political suicide. They are going to lose a shitload of money, and the blame is going to be on their shoulders. This is unbelievable.

[krabigirl]

49. Yep...especially since immigration has declined sharply since the housing bust.

So many were employed in construction, etc...also our economy is not attractive rig now for all immigrant, legal or otherwise.

[LeftyMom]

27. It's Prop 187 all over again.

I doubt the courts will like it any better this time. :shrug:

[depakid]

28. "My issue is protecting the taxpayers."

Seems like that's become the catch all phrase that 21st Century Republicans use to hide their delusions or poor character behind.

[AlphaCentauri]

48. Republicans want to get elected

as long as there is no immigration reform they will be elected running their anti Mexican campaigns

[ProudDad]

33. Russell Pearce (at neo-nazi rally)...

Russell Pearce, neo-Nazis and Anarchists at the Arizona State Capitol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsHi6_l1XzA

This is the kind of fascist who's writing the laws here in the New Mississippi...

[liberation]

35. How exactly did the "anarchists" make it to a neo-nazi rally...

... it would be like catholics and atheist rallying together.

[ProudDad]

40. I think they really meant "Libertarians" -- lots of them there...

We Real Anarchists (well, Anarcho-Syndicalists) hate pearce...

[struggle4progress]

42. Amendment 14

All persons born .. in the United States .. are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens .. nor deny to any person .. the equal protection of the laws ...

[superconnected]

50. That's what I was thinking, what's Arizona going to do about that - succeed?

[superduperfarleft]

53. Let's hope not.

I think you meant "secede." And let's hope so. ;)