Chrétien's 'morally grave' error - Bishop; 'You will burn in hell'

[dArKeR]

Prime Minister Jean Chrétien risks burning in hell if he makes same-sex marriage legal in Canada, a Roman Catholic bishop from Alberta warned yesterday.

"He doesn't understand what it means to be a good Catholic," Bishop Fred Henry of Calgary said in an interview. "He's putting at risk his eternal salvation. I pray for the Prime Minister because I think his eternal salvation is in jeopardy. He is making a morally grave error and he's not being accountable to God."

Bishop Henry was commenting on the Liberal government's proposed same-sex marriage legislation on the eve of the Vatican releasing new guidelines for bishops and Catholic politicians on gay unions.

http://theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030731.uchre0731/BNStory/National/

I predict the Pope and all his Cardinals and Bishops will really burn in hell for them having full knowledge of child prostitution, child pornography, and child abuse in all of South America, All of Africa, and most of SE Asia and they have done nothing to stop it in 25 years. If I could strap them all to lie dectectors today you'd see. That's my Bush Futures Market prediction.

http://darker0darker.tripod.com/

[sujan]

1. ahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha

Bring it on.

[Spentastic]

2. Really?

He also runs the risk of being eaten by trolls when crossing bridges.

Fairy tales have no place in secular government.

"He is making a morally grave error and he's not being accountable to God"

I'm sure if there is a God (s)he's perfectly capable of making decisions instead of men that wear dresses and silly hats.

[tkmorris]

3. Oh man <snicker> Trolls......

That is funny!

I SO agree with you. I fully support the right of humans everywhere to believe in whatever fairy tale they wish. If they want to sit up all night waiting for the Great Pumpkin, hey, I'm cool with that.

Just keep it out of politics, k?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Where do Christians come up with these things?

The Bible never out and out says homosexuality is anything worse than an "abomination". Now, that may seem bad, but the Bible ALSO says eating meat and milk in the same meal is an abomination. I'm waiting for the Vatican to come out with a statement condemning cheeseburgers. It's time people read the Bible for themselves, and stop listening to interpretations of it.

[Atlant]

5. They make it up as they go along.

> Where do Christians come up with these things?

They make it up as they go along. In the case of the Catholic church,
doctrine is made up by a bunch of guys in dresses who are forbidden
(by their own, made up doctrine) from experiencing genuine human life
in its fullest so they often run off the road into the weeds
promulgating doctrine that has little, if anything, to do with the
real lives of their congregants.

Atlant

[SharonAnn]

21. Hung up on the "Pelvic Issues" again. This is a secular state

and they're trying to turn it into a rigid, hide-bound, conservative, right-wing, fascist, theocracy.

Yuck!!

[calimary]

52. Man! I guess they're not satisfied with the way THIS country's going.

The hemispheric monopoly is incomplete as long as Canada thinks independently.

[Ediacara]

17. don't forget

that a sin equal to, if not worse than, homosexuality is wearing a garment made of two different fibers. 50-50 cotton-poly will send you to the deepest darkest pits of hell just as much as watching Christopher Lowell.

[TrogL]

19. Dietary laws

Some people claim that the dietary and clothing ritual laws were overthrown, but not the other ones.

http://members.shaw.ca/trogl/bibquote.html

[donco6]

50. But Jesus said,

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished (Matt. 5:17,18 NASB)

Those who pick and choose from amongst the Old and New Testaments need to be careful. I believe most evangelicals would say that the dietary, circumcision and other "differentiation" type laws - the laws that made the Jews stand out from their neighbors - were fulfilled in Christ. But they would also say that the 10 commandments still hold, as well as the "golden rule". So often I see our "Christians" worrying about jots and tittles when justice, mercy and faithfulness - which are the cornerstones of the law - are allowed to fall by the wayside.

[donco6]

49. He also condemns divorce - when do ya think

we'll see a law banning THAT?

[Atlant]

6. "But the Inquisition's here, and it's here to stay!"

"But the Inquisition's here, and it's here to stay!"

"Hey Torquemada, what do you say?"
"I just got back from the Auto-de-fe!"
"The Auto-de-fe? What's the Auto-de-fe?"
""It's doin' what you oughtn't but you do anyway!"

"The inquisition, hey hey hey..."

[BigMcLargehuge]

7. No on expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Our chief weapon is surprise... and fear...

Our two weapons are surprise, fear, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope...

Our three weapons are... surprise, fear, and an almost fanatical devotion to the pope.. and...

Wait wait...

Among our weapons are surprise, fear, and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope...

Can we start again?

Cardinal Fang! Fetch.... THE COMFY CHAIR!!!!!!

Not, THE COMFY CHAIR!!!!

[Kemet]

9. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

<quote>Not, THE COMFY CHAIR!!!!</quote>

I Love the Monty Pythons!
:)

[IndianaGreen]

23. Gallileo was condemned by the Church for heresy

Gallileo said that the Earth was not the center of cration, but that it was another planet revolving around the Sun. For this, Gallileo was condemned by the Church for heresy.

If the Church speaks for God, did the condemnation of Gallileo for telling the truth means that the Church (and by implication, God) are liars?

[Lindacooks]

32. Yes

I have wondered for years how far along the human race would be in matters of medicine and science if the church hadn't condemned scientific inquiry throughout history.

Of course, that's still happening, with Shrub halting stem cell research and church nuts warning against cloning, even medical cloning.

[xxqqqzme]

47. but didn't the catholic church

admit they made a mistake about the Gallileo heresy charge in the '70s? The 1970's!

[donco6]

51. Even then it was lukewarm.

They're kinda in a pickle when it comes to Galileo. The pope had spoken ex cathedra regarding the nature of creation, which meant he had spoken as god on earth, according to Catholic doctrine (yes, I am one). So here comes Galileo with proof about the imperfections in the heavens (actually, he had simply demonstrated that the moon was pocked with craters, which went against doctrine at the time - they all believed the heavens had to be perfect, because that's where God was. Copernicus was the one who mathematically verified the anti-geocentricity model.)

Anyway, they couldn't ever say they were "wrong." How could God be Wrong? So they kinda half apologized. Sad.

[JackSwift]

53. I don't think Papal infallibility was doctrine until the late 19th century

Galileo was a personal friend of the Pope who was busy fighting the reformation at the time. They were in fact rather close friends from long back, and Galileo was counting on this to keep from being punished. Well, he wasn't burned at the stake, but he was confined to house arrest for the remainder of his life. I don't know if this means he was never allowed to go into town or what. But let's not forget that Galileo got a very light sentence compared to others.

[Aries]

8. Their tactics are similar to the Bush gang's...

Diverting attention from their own crimes. Bush diverts attention from his lies about 9/11 with a war in Iraq, he diverts attention from his lies about the war with Iraq with another terror alert, etc. It's a very similar m.o. to what the Church is doing. How dare they presume to dictate morality to anyone?

And as the "justification" of his rush to war in Iraq proved, Bush and his mob also believe "the end justifies the means", which if I'm not mistaken is a dictum that originated with the Jesuits.

If he's smart, Chretien will join the Freedom from Religion Foundation

[JackDragna]

10. Does anyone else besides me get tired..

..of sexless men in dresses telling people how they should have sex? There's just something weird about religious people's hangups with gays. As a wise person once said, the worst perversion is celibacy.

[Atlant]

11. The situation in Boston...

> Does anyone else besides me get tired of sexless men in dresses
> telling people how they should have sex

The situation in Boston pretty well proves they're not sexless. :-(

They just have some rather-odd ideas about how an adult expresses
sexual desire.

Atlant

[Rich Hunt]

43. oh, for cripes sake

There are priests and nuns who have affairs with adults, too, you know.

This is the best article out there about celibacy, patriarchy and the child sex abuse scandals in the Catholic Church:

Are all these men abusing kids, raping women, seeking underage prostitutes, and flocking to websites offering “live dirty teen girls online,” because they are not getting enough nookie?

Obviously many pundits think so, since this seems to be a favorite explanation of the misdeeds of corrupt priests. What’s the solution? Equally obvious: abolish the pernicious doctrine of celibacy. Start marrying off the priesthood. If each man is provided with a compliant lifelong sexual servant—er, partner—of his own, then his wife can absorb any aggressive sexual energies he may contain, so that the larger community won’t be harmed.

Woman as blotting paper; woman as lightning rod; woman as sacrificial anode. Any woman who has desperately negotiated and pleaded to keep an abusive husband or boyfriend’s sexual attentions focused on her rather than her teenage daughter, knows what this is all about—putting her body between the dominant male and his chosen prey.

Behind these blandly respectable proposals to marry off the priests, to end the “barbaric” doctrine of celibacy, which “forces” men to abuse children, is an unspoken message: adult women are more expendable than little boys. Though we all know that adult men molest little girls as well, it’s overwhelmingly the wide-eyed altar boy whom the political cartoonists (and the popular mind that they represent) imagine at risk from the predatory priest. To deflect all that predatory male sexual energy from harming him, we obviously need a legion of dutiful wives.

http://www.zmag.org/ZMagSite/Oct2002/Feature/clarke1002.htm

And gosh - there are a lot of other religions in which men wear "dresses". If you think ill of the Catholics who do so, one wonders what you think of the garments worn by religions even more marginal in North America.

Please stick to the topic instead of bringing up irrelevancies like ritual and costume.

[Atlant]

45. Actually, this is *PRECISELY* on topic.

> Please stick to the topic instead of bringing up irrelevancies like
ritual and costume.

We have a group of people, a large proportion of whom like
to fuck non-consenting children and do so whenever possible,
telling us which consenting we may or may not fuck.

Atlant

[Rich Hunt]

48. It's NOT a "large proportion"

It's nice to find someone thoughtful and open-minded enough to read my article.

NO - the rituals, dress and celibacy are not at all relevant. Catholic priests are not the only people who adopt such customs.

I am now keeping a tally of those who cannot separate their anti-Catholic bigotry from a just condemnation of bigoted and corrupt clergy.

Also, the article I posted explains why celibacy or the sexuality of priests should not be an issue in discussing sex abuse - it's offensive to women, to gays and lesbians, AND to sexual abuse victims.

They don't abuse because they're celibate or wear robes or do other things considered "exotic" in the Protestant-majority US.

[Atlant]

54. Oh boy! Do I get to be on your list?

I am now keeping a tally...

Oh boy! Do I get to be on your list? I like to be on lists
(at least unless it means that I get spammed).

By the way, in Boston, paedophiles appear to be
way over-represented among the Catholic clergy
(as compared to the general population.) Either
that, or there's a lot more paedophilia out there
than one might guess, given that something north
of a hundred (approaching two hundred?) Boston-
area church workers are now suspected of having
mollested children.

Atlant

[DoctorBombay]

12. A thousand plus years and they can't think of a new line?

You'll burn in hell???

Stop it, you crazy bishop!! :silly: My sides are hurting from laughing.

[Atlant]

13. The interesting part to me is the "non-proportionality" of punishment.

> You'll burn in hell???

The interesting part to me is the "non-proportionality" of punishment.
Let's see:

• Chretien allowed loving couples to marry and form families, for
  which he'll burn in Hell for all eternity.
  
  
• Clinton got a blowjob from Monica outside of his marriage,
  betraying his vow to his wife, for which he'll burn in Hell for all
  eternity.
  
  
• Shrub lied to the world so that he could invade Iraq, killing
  hundreds of US troops, thousands of Iraqi troops, and thousands of
  Iraqi noncombatants, for which he'll burn in Hell for all eternity.
  
  

So they all get to "burn in Hell for all eternity", even though
their sins were of a some-what different magnitude. Sure, I get that!
It's the same sort of black-and-white, "you're either with us or your
a'gin us!" thinking that we were discussing recently as emblematic of
"conservative" thought. No gray areas, no "You'll bite into too-hot
pizza in Hell and sear the roof of your mouth for three years" or
"You'll get a severe sunburn in Hell for twelve point three
centuries!", just "You'll burn in Hell for all of eternity!"

Yeah, sure.

As if a God who was powerful enough to create a universe based on
subtle concepts like quantum chromodynamics would think in those
sorts of binary terms.

Atlant

[Lisa]

20. well, according to some fundamentalist Christians, Bush is "Christ-like"

Check out some of the glurge making its way through the inboxes (a nice collection at www.snopes.com, search under "Bush" and "pray"). The most recent story has the gentle and compassionate Shrub sobbing over his maimed soldiers, kissing them and blessing them. And of course such a saintly man, who prays in the Oval Office first thing each morning, is halfway to Heaven already.

If by some incredible bureaucratic slip-up I get to Paradise and I see Bush, bin Laden, Falwell, and all the popes, imams, rabbis, and religious leaders who've told their followers it's okay to hate, humiliate, and kill people in God's name ... I will turn around and go to "the other place", rather than spend eternity with such sanctimonious hypocrites. Maybe the Prime Minister (and his predecessor Pierre Trudeau, who started things rolling with his "the state has no place in the bedrooms of the nation") will buy me a beer or something.

[Stuckinthebush]

14. Jean should come back with something like...

Fine...when I get there, I'll look you up and we can do lunch or something.

[davidinalameda]

24. brava

you win the best post of the day!

:bounce:

[Not a robought]

27. LOL

that sounds like something he would say too. :evilgrin:

[goforit]

15. Yet pedophiles are OK!...The Catholic Bishop looks Bad and he

certainly is not the chosen one!!!!

These guys are plumetting down a huge abyss of hypocracy.

[iverglas]

16. worth noting that it wasn't a Quebec bishop

Quebec suffered under the yoke of the RC church and its political minions for a long time. It threw it off starting early in the second half of last century -- the process is called The Quiet Revolution -- and it shows no sign of wanting it back.

While most people in Quebec still self-identify as Roman Catholic (e.g. on the 2001 census), they don't pay much attention to the Pope and his buddies.

In 1997, divorce to marriage ratio in Quebec was the highest in Canada:
http://www.vifamily.ca/library/profiling2/parti22.html
(It was followed by British Columbia, where 30% of the population self-identified as having "no religion" in the last census.)

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/021022/d021022a.htm

The 2001 Census showed that an increasing proportion of couples are living common-law. Married couples accounted for 70% of all families in 2001, down from 83% in 1981. At the same time, the proportion of common-law couples rose from 6% to 14%.

<the three categories are married, common-law and single-parent>

... The trend toward common-law was again strongest in Quebec, where the 508,500 common-law families accounted for 30% of all couple families. Almost 29% of children were living with common-law parents in Quebec, more than double the national average.

In Quebec, same-sex couples have been regarded as common-law couples, by law, for just over three years.

.

Prominent Roman Catholic politicians in Canada in the last 4 decades have seldom paid much heed to the Pope. Remember RCer Pierre Trudeau's famous quip of the 1960s, when he was Justice Minister and presided over a major overhaul of the criminal law relating to things sexual? "The State has no place in the bedrooms of the nation."

One of his Liberal Cabinet colleagues of the day, Mark MacGuigan, an English-Canadian Roman Catholic, wrote a book about abortion and public policy before he was appointed to the Federal Court: Abortion, Conscience and Democracy. He rejected the idea that a politician's religious or conscientious convictions should govern his/her public policy positions.

Jean Chrétien came out of Quebec with Trudeau and is part of the same "liberal" tradition.

Does anyone remember the furore in the US about John Kennedy's religion? It may seem long ago, but it was very real. The whole objection to RC politicians being elected to positions of power was over precisely this: that an RCer is bound to obey the orders of the Pope, and an RC president or prime minister is therefore not to be trusted.

We've come a ways since that, at least partly because of RC politicians who are able to separate their religion and their public duty. I think Jean has that distinction pretty clear in his mind.

But if not, he might want to look into a comfy conveyance for his trip to hell; courtesy of an old net buddy, here's one option, the basic model:



One Seater
for those going solo

.

[CO Liberal]

18. IMHO, That Bishop Will Be In Hell Along With All the Pedophile Priests

:-)

[Tansy_Gold]

22. Consider the irony . . . . .

. . . .when you condemn the bishop for his homophobic ways yet your greatest insult is to call him and his ilk "men in dresses."

"Dresses" are apparently considered women's wear, and thus to liken the catholic priesthood to women is an insult. Women, after all, aren't real men, aren't quite human, hence the priests aren't either.

Yet the Roman Catholic Church is in many ways one of the most misogynistic institutions on the planet.

Pick on the Catholic homophobes if you want; they have a choice in their opinions. But using women -- many of whom do not wear dresses -- to frame your insults makes you just as misogynist.


Tansy Gold, who wears dresses frequently and proudly and comfortably.

[thebeaglehaslanded]

25. The Catholic church is so divisive, so out of touch with the 21st century,

but it has to be in order to maintain its power over the people. One adheres to a belief out of fear, the fear of eternal damnation, and without that fear, the church is nothing. Controlling people by fear...does that sound familiar? Roosevelt knew what he was talking about..."The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."

[Duncan Grant]

26. What year is this??

Every time the church opens it's mouth on this issue I feel like I'm living in the counter-reformation.

Threatening people with eternal damnation? What an impotent and feeble gesture!

[DavidMS]

28. Mr. Prime Minister may wish to sugest...

that Bishob Henry pray to God that the RCMP doesn't find any pedophiles Priests in Canada if he continues to to involve himself in matters that are wholy inaproperate for a man of the Church.

[saoirse]

29. It was said, about 2,000 years ago:

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

And

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

If you accept official Catholic Church teaching, then God, not the Pope, a bishop, or anyone else, will be the judge of Jean Chretien's, and everyone else's, soul.

The bishop's remark was incredibly stupid - it may be just what the PM needed to deflect some of the heat he's been receiving on this issue.

I think if anyone needs to be concerned over the fate of their soul, it's those in Church who covered up for the pedophiles who betrayed the most sacred trust imaginable. Jean Chretien, on the other hand, is doing a great work by extending to gays and lesbians the same rights enjoyed by heterosexual couples. I applaud him - and wish the politicians in this country had even half the cojones.

[TrueBlueDem]

30. Memo to the Pope:

Until you resolve the horrific Pedophile Priest problem, don't be wasting your time or ours releasing Papal Bullshit about gay and lesbian marriages.

Why is it when you are confronted with the fact that your priests are sexually abusing little boys and girls -- for decades, city after city -- you do little and say almost nothing; yet on the issue of loving, same-sex adults who want to proclaim their commitment to one another through marriage, you threaten damnation to any political leader who supports gay marriage through law?

Pope Paul, save all your moral outrage and righteous indignation for the children whose lives your priests are shattering. If you can't do that, then it's time you toddle off to the old pope's home.

[roguevalley]

31. Excuse me, but how many kids got boinked on your watch, *DAD*?

Personally, I think that the line of priests, religious and
'others' that will be waiting for admittance will preclude
anyone with guts enough to do a loving and good thing. Burn,
baby, burn.

[regnaD kciN]

33. I didn't know Canada's Roman Catholics...

...had their very own Rev. Fred Phelps!

[whirlygigspin]

34. The Quiet revolution

Almost no one in Quebec would let a Priest/religious leader
even voice a political opinion today.
And if they did, the backlash would be immediate & fierce.

It's seems most bizarre that today, Quebec is secular
& progressive while America is overrun by religious
wackos.

Benjamin Franklin would freak.
(founder of the Montreal Gazette)

[Liberator_Rev]

35. How did this thread run so long without a "true believer"

accusing everybody of "Catholic bashing", "anti-Catholic bigotry", etc. ???
The Catholic hierarchy, as opposed to Catholics in the pews (who don't count for much in that church), has more to be ashamed of than most people even realize. See http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/PopesvsChrist .

[Spentastic]

36. Because

This is pretty much indefensible. It's much easier to take joy from the actions of that Priest who actually did the right thing by saving some kids than concentrate on the fact that Catholic dogma is discriminatory and also fairly inflexible.

It seems there are a few pro gay marriage, pro choice, pro sex before marriage, pro contraception Catholics here. Bully for them, but I guess on that basis I'd call myself a pro Satan Christian.

I reckon we need fewer labels.

[iverglas]

40. USAmerican mythology!

"Benjamin Franklin would freak.
(founder of the Montreal Gazette)"

Geez, you guys just want to own everything, doncha?

From a quickie search, this provides a succinct explanation of the reality:

http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/QBC-MONTREAL/2002-03/1016587653

Well, there is a little truth in the Franklin myth.

Benjamin Franklin was involved in Montreal's first printer. Franklin brought Fleury Mesplet to Montreal in 1776 at the behest of Congress to help interest the inhabitants of Montreal in joining the American Cause.

Franklin did a "Runner" when British authorities appeared, but poor Mesplet could hardly make a quick evacuation with a printing press. He was jailed for a few weeks then released and allowed to pursue his occupation as a commercial printer. Two years later, 1778, Mesplet started a newspaper called "La Gazette du Commerce et Littéraire." Pretty hard to credit Franklin with that event.

When Mesplet died in 1794 his newspaper ceased to exist and Montreal was without a newspaper for nearly two years. Two other newspapers started up but both later collapsed in bankruptcy. Then the company was formed that published The Montreal Gazette and it continues to this day.

Franklin's adventure was a failed effort at USAmerican imperialism.

The fact is that when the British conquered French Canada in the 18th century, they permitted the inhabitants of the colony to retain their language, religion and legal system. This was a major "first" in history, of the remotely modern variety anyway.

A century later, when the 1867 Confederation created the modern Canada, that bargain was honoured. Quebec retained its language and religious rights, and its civil law (and Roman Catholics outside Quebec, and Protestants in Quebec, retained the right to operate their own publicly-funded "dissentient" school systems, since of course all "public" school systems at the time were denominational).

This is the fundamental characteristic of Canada, from which its modern multiculturalism and diversity and tolerance grew: recognition of the collective cultural rights of minorities.

People in Quebec certainly do reject church interference in state affairs now, but 150 years ago they did not want a "secular" state any more than anyone else at that time did (including USAmericans who have always clung to some variety of "Christian" basis for their state). As a minority, they were allowed to preserve their own version of that connection.

And of course, granted, we today regard this as "undemocratic", but there were a whole lot of things that went on everywhere in the 18th and 19th centuries that we now regard as undemocratic. And this is not to say that there was not oppression of the French-speaking/Roman Catholic majority in Quebec by the more economically powerful English-speaking/Protestant minority. But had Quebec joined the US as Ben Franklin's mission sought to have it do, there would be about as much Quebec culture as there is Cajun culture now in the US. Instead, and as a result of those historical Canadian bargains and tolerances, Quebec culture thrives.

.

[SOS]

37. Dear Bishop Henry:

Two theological inquiries...
1. Please provide photographs of "hell". Also send a geographic and physical description of this place. Since you speak with such authority, please back your statements with evidence.
2. In the book of Numbers, the punishment for working on the Sabbath is death by stoning. Should shopkeepers who open on Sunday be executed in this manner?
Thank you!

[DemBones DemBones]

38. Anti-Catholic posts are so predictable and so full of hate that it

seems the ultimate exercise in futility to respond to them.

Keep talking, send more Catholic voters over to the GOP. Mr. Rove loves it.

[truth2power]

44. I haven't seen any "anti-catholic" posts in this thread.

Father Andrew Greeley, a Roman Catholic priest, writer and sociologist, has said, if I might paraphrase, that it's the HIERARCHY of the church that's screwed up. The PEOPLE are the heart of the church. He has written that the hierarchy has been trying their best to drive the people OUT of the church for many years, but they won't go. (The reason they won't go is "because of the stories" BTW). :-)

(Don't ask me where in his non-fiction writings he said that. It would take me quite a while to find it. You might want to take a look at "The Catholic Myth: The Behavior and Beliefs of American Catholics")

I think reading Fr. Greeley's non-fiction works gives one a whole new perspective on where lies the beauty in REAL Roman Catholicism.

Disclaimer: I'm not RC, BTW; so maybe I have no right to think I know what I'm tqalking about in this respect. Just my $.02.

Edit> clarity

[fortyfeetunder]

39. Chretien has his priorities right, the Bishop doesn't

I heard the Prime Minister say his priority is to the Canadian people, which it should be. Too bad the Chimp can't follow his lead.

Will agree with the rest of you that the Bishop ought to shut up before someone decides to take a peek into the pedophilia issue in Canada.

[iverglas]

41. take a peek into paedophilia in Canada??

Google for "Christian Brothers" abuse for a start (add Canada or "criminal charges" for more specifics).

This RC lay order didn't exclude Canada from its world-wide child abuse ring -- the abuse was both sexual and physical, and of course psychological/emotional. The lawsuits have been flying for years.

The CBC produced a docudrama about one Christian Brothers "training school" called "The Boys of St. Vincent" in 1991. It was temporarily banned from airing in certain provinces to avoid prejudicing the trials that were then underway.

To be fair, the United and Anglican churches have had their share of similar problems, arising out of their treatment of the First Nations children placed in residential schools they operated, on behalf of the federal government, in the mid-20th century. Both of those churches (especially the United Church) have done a little better job of stepping up to the plate and taking responsibility for the abuse practised in those schools.

It seems that the RC church in Canada may have taken a somewhat more direct approach to the problem than was ever taken in the US, for example. I can't find the 1990 document on line, but here is a reference to it:

http://www.manitobacatholic.net/meet/letters/2002-05-19.html

Following the problems of sexual abuse which were uncovered in Canada in the mid 1980’s, the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops immediately formed an ad hoc committee, chaired by Archbishop Adam Exner, then in Winnipeg, to deal with the issue. The committee, composed of pastors, psychologists, psychiatrists, lawyers and social workers, studied, consulted and made a series of recommendations to the bishops, all of which were adopted by a Conference vote in 1989. The resulting protocol, entitled From Pain to Hope, outlines in a precise manner how issues of sexual abuse of minors are to be dealt with in the dioceses of Canada. This protocol was adopted by the Archdiocese of Winnipeg in 1990. The present chair of the response committee is Msgr. Ward Jamieson of St. Paul the Apostle Parish in Winnipeg He chairs a diocesan committee composed of a psychologist, a counsellor, a civil lawyer and a canon lawyer.

Of course, the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops wrote to the Prime Minister, in June:

http://www.occb.on.ca/english/BertheletChretien.html

In the name of the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops, and with the support of its Permanent Council, allow me to say that I am deeply concerned and profoundly disappointed with respect to the decision that you have taken not to appeal the rulings of the Appeal Courts of Ontario and British Columbia regarding the redefinition of marriage. The prospect of the bill that you are preparing to present to the House of Commons in support of the redefinition of marriage by including same-sex partners would mean a devaluation of traditional marriage as the basis of the family and as an essential institution for the stability and equilibrium of society.

... I pray that you will have the courage to act in conformity with the law that is inscribed within human nature and which is not affected by every wind that blows.

Hmm. No threat of eternal damnation.

Bishop Henry, who made that threat, is a member of the CCCB, but appears to be operating as a lone wolf in this particular theological interpretation. ;)

.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

42. Bishop's "morally grave" error!!! SUPPORTING PEDIOPHILE PERIESTS!!!!!!!!

If anyone is going to "burn in hell", then you sir will be the one to do so!

[DinahMoeHum]

46. "Good Catholics, Bad Christians". . .

as my mother would say.


:evilfrown: