Julian Assange says WikiLeaks wants to expose China and Russia as much as US

[pampango]

Source: UK Guardian

While Assange has been accused by former members of the WikiLeaks project of obsessively focusing on the US, he said countries with less transparency, such as China and Russia, had the most potential to be reformed by whistleblowers.

"We believe it is the most closed societies that have the most reform potential," he said. Assange said that while parts of the Chinese government and security services "appear terrified of free speech" he believed it was "an optimistic sign because it means speech can still cause reform."

Assange argued that countries like China could be easier to reform than countries like the US and the UK, which "have been so heavily fiscalised through contractual obligations that political change doesn't seem to result in economic change, which in other words means that political change doesn't result in change."

Speaking about accusations that he had singled out the US as a force for harm in the world, Assange said the view lacked "the necessary subtlety". "I don't think the US is, by world standards, an exception; rather it is a very interesting case both for its abuses and for some of its founding principles."

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/02/julian-assange-wikileaks-china-russia

[ClassWarrior]

1. No doubt. Truth-telling knows no boundaries.

K&R.

NGU.

[aquart]

2. Uh huh.

[rug]

3. "political change doesn't result in change".

As we have seen.

[Kaleko]

4. Assange is a very smart systems thinker

and flies at an intellectual altitude his critics can't comprehend simply because they can't see the bigger picture.

[Igel]

6. Some of his critics can comprehend it.

Let's not assume that because somebody admired by some is criticized others it can only be because he's so far superior as to pass those others' understanding.

There's a lot of that, the assumption that if people truly understood one's magnificence and brilliance, one's innate goodness and purity, understanding, collaboration, respect, and even love must follow.

Those immortal lines from Star Trek: TNG do not apply to Assange any more than to any public figure: "To know him is to love him. To love him is to know him. Those who knew him, Loved Him. Those who loved him, Knew Him."

Some understand him reasonably well and still criticize him harshly on moral, legal, or even intellectual grounds. Sometimes those claiming most shrilly to see the bigger picture need to stand back and realize that they can't see the bigger picture 6" away from the canvas. Everything just *seems* bigger, a world in a drop of water. At other times when they're turned around they are surprised to find there are many more pictures there for their inspection than the one they've contemplated, the only one they thought.

Ars longa, mens brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile. (With due apologies to Hippocrates for butchering his meaning and to all others for butchering the Latin.)

[Kaleko]

8. So far, I haven't seen a single criticism that would lead me to the conclusion

that Assange's strategy and its implications were understood.

[BenzoDia]

5. Ehmm, he's not obsessed with the US, but was saying that Hillary Clinton should resign?

Hell ya he's obsessed. That's a clear as day.

[canetoad]

17. An observation

that only a self obsessed american could make

I hope you are aware of how much US policy affect other countries. I'm neither in favour of nor opposed to his call for Clinton's resignation, Your comments about obsession make no sense and need examination.

[EFerrari]

19. And he didn't go out of his way to call for her resignation.

He was asked pointblank by a reporter if he thought she should resign.

[BenzoDia]

28. And you know what? Real 'journalists' wouldn't answer that question b/c it would...

display their 'bias'. Ever read a resignation comment from the Guardian or NY Times guys covering this story? Why not? b/c it would damage their credibility.

[EFerrari]

35. Oh, what utter baloney. This Faux "objectivity" bs

has addled people's brains. When someone has clearly done wrong, it's a surrender of agency not to say it out loud.

[BenzoDia]

40. oh what utter baloney, the "good" guys aren't politically motivated bs

But hey, don't take my word for it. The people close to him already said he's biased.

[BenzoDia]

29. Another observation

the very people he worked with claim he's biased. Are they self-obsessed americans as well?

Your comments about me are judgmental and reactionary and need examination.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

46. Sources or you're pulling that out of your ass. -nt

[BenzoDia]

47. Very well then, here you go

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,732212,00.html#ref=rss

[EFerrari]

18. How does that follow. It actually isn't "clear as day".

What is clear is that pathologizing Assange is less effort than dealing with the material he's released.

[melvin702]

7. Wants to expose China and Russia?

Well, we're all all waiting. Get on it and stop talking about it.

[JackRiddler]

23. First of all, Wikileaks does not have access to everything in the world.

They're committed to publishing what they get, and so far have done so, including materials from Russia and China.

Second, China and Russia are also among those being exposed right now through the release of the State Department cables, which deliciously seem to contain damaging information about most every country.

Finally, why don't you get on it? Their point is the Internet makes this possible for everyone.

[melvin702]

24. No, they're selectively committed to embarrassing the U.S.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

39. Because you say so.

:eyes:

[melm00se]

34. Embarrass Russia and China?

Not unless you want to (at best) wake up with your balls floating in a jar or (at worst) dead.

just ask the 92 journalists whose deaths were directly linked to their work and the 46 who were killed probably because of their work in Russia since 1993 including Alexander Litvinenko and Anna Politkovskaya.

http://journalists-in-russia.org/

[Lucky 13]

9. Good. The more truth the better. But I'm beginning to think Mr. Assange...

... is trying to commit suicide. You have to know it's coming. U.S., Russia, China, mega-banks... These are not good enemies to have. Especially as one lone man.

[Kaleko]

10. In other words, anyone openly standing up to the mega powers

and challenging their stranglehold must be suicidal.

Look at what that says about the state we're in.

[Lucky 13]

11. We are in a dark place.

The last time I said that was about three to four years ago. For some reason, I'm more scared about it now than then. Back then, I had hope that if we could just get a democrat in office, we could make things better. Now I know that not to be true. And I feel comfortable in saying that this administration would like to see Assange silenced by whatever means necessary.

[Kaleko]

13. I'm with you there. Totally

with you, my friend. :hug:

I have never been so disheartened as now that I realize that Obama is not going to deliver on his promise for transparency in government and justice for us all.

[EFerrari]

20. Yes. We're watching something that is tremendously dangerous. n/t

[ClassWarrior]

38. Bah. We're always in a dark place. Our hell is no more special than previous generations' hells.

We just need to stand up for the truth tellers. As always.

NGU.

[krabigirl]

45. Exactly. Good for him.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MilesColtrane]

14. Mr. Assange needs to Google the names Yushchenko and Litvinenko.

Russia doesn't fuck around.

[glinda]

21. Just what I was thinking.

[TheLastMohican]

31. And you have proven links that this was Russia's job?

Btw, do google Yushenko's recent investigation - there is no conclusive evidence that he was poisoned as no living man on earth can digest 6000 dozes of agent orange and then keep living up to date to tell the story.

More like plastic surgery operation with vodka digestion gone wrong.

[MilesColtrane]

32. Yeah, they just ate some bad borscht....that's it.

[melm00se]

37. see post #34

even if you discount Yushenko's death, there are plenty of our journalists' deaths to lay at Russia's doorstep.

[TheLastMohican]

41. Yushenko is not dead

Please verify your facts before entering a discussion.

He is one happy retired asshole with a lot of money he stole while plundering Ukraine for 5 years of his presidency and his US wife also did a great job stealing (how's that hospital for kids doing?)

Moreover, Yushenko doesn't want to verify results of his blood tests - he is lying through his teeth, but he was a useful idiot at the time to US geopolitical interests because his failed plastic surgery could be blamed on Putin and Russia.

You know how that works in the CIA-controlled US of A?

[melm00se]

42. ok

I screwed up but please take a look at the database I posted of dead Russian journalists.

the death toll is quiet staggering even after pulling out the deaths that aren't directly linked to their job activities.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

15. As people here on DU are quite fond of saying in regards to Obama

I don't care about what Assange has to say, I want to see actions since words are cheap

[Purveyor]

16. I am waiting for the 'grand finale'....the israel dump. eom

[glinda]

22. Personally I worry about him and wish he would just dump everything.

[TheMadMonk]

26. Actually his survivability may well depend on him always having another shoe...

...to drop.

His death drops it ALL out there in the public domain, and I suspect that ALL will include the material that is currently withheld by Wikileaks.

[glinda]

33. I assume that but maybe dumping would insure his survivability. Maybe he

has stuff that would help many many people in a big way. Or cause a massive world war.

[davepc]

25. Assange is going to catch a nice polonium-210 cocktail if he keeps it up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko

[JawJaw]

27. Or his reputation will be smeared

More "sex allegations", some child porn found on his computer,maybe; doesn't take much to enable the media to safely cook-up the narrative and consign him to the realm of bad, bad men.

Then maybe he'll be found dead in a hotel room having "taken an overdose to deal with the shame of the crimes he is alleged to have committed".

I'm sure he has planned for this scenario, though.

[timo]

30. jack around

with putin and they may not even go as subtle as the radioactive rootbeer, prolly just get a double tap dirt nap!!

[melm00se]

36. yup

see post #34

[hugo_from_TN]

43. Sure he does.

Get back to me when he starts exposing their diplomatic and state secrets.

[xor]

44. I wonder if attitudes toward him would change if he did that. From both his critics and supporters

Should be interesting to see how that plays out. Like what if he didn't just go after the China and Russia, what if he leaked stuff from Venezuela? Imagine the rights heads exploding over that. They wouldn't know if to support him or hate him still. Might see something similar over here too though.