Democrats reject tax-cut package

[tpsbmam]

Source: LA Times

Angry House Democrats on Thursday voted to reject the tax cut extension package negotiated by President Obama with Republicans.

In an emotional voice vote in their caucus, Democrats, who have repeatedly attacked the agreement as too generous to the rich, said the package should not come to the floor in its current form. The next step is up to the leadership.

“In the caucus today, House Democrats supported a resolution to reject the Senate Republican tax provisions as currently written," Speaker Nancy Pelosi said in a prepared statement. "We will continue discussions with the president and our Democratic and Republican colleagues in the days ahead to improve the proposal before it comes to the House floor for a vote."

The move is sharp rebuke to Obama, who hours earlier had stepped up his campaign to sell his tax-cut-extension agreement, arguing that the nation’s economy could be severely damaged and the recovery might begin to move backwards if Congress fails to pass the package.

Read more: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-obama-taxcuts-120910,0,2729659.story

[TwilightGardener]

1. I get the sense this is all for show.

[onehandle]

2. It is. It's going to pass as is. nt

[liberal N proud]

3. I have that same feeling

In the end the GOP will get the tax cuts for the rich and the unemployed will get screwed.

This is America, land of the rich!

[ooglymoogly]

18. The proud grandstand moment of true and honest greatness in Kabuki, before the mask falls away

to reveal the hopelessness and darkness of the cowardly cave and the realization we do not live in anything really resembling a democracy. The smoke and mirrors dawn before the utter darkness of the power of the elite selfish few, so to speak.

[saigon68]

24. The ONE TERMER has been unmasked

The gravy goes to the Corporate ruling class-- the scraps go to the poor

I love how his bottomless pit of a War with Betrayus is going

[ooglymoogly]

25. All my political efforts will go to finding, supporting and electing a challenger.

[ooglymoogly]

29. sorry wrong place nt

[robinlynne]

39. absolutley the right place. a Democratic challenger!

[Blasphemer]

28. So do I... nt

[bowens43]

4. we'll see what happens........

I'd really like to see this thing go away.

[FarCenter]

6. So you believe that Obama can get a better deal in the 112th Congress

It will go through after January 3, in the next Congress, probably with some sweeteners for the Republicans.

[Carolina]

10. if he had a spine and an epiphany

he could veto anything the next Congress sends his way. But alas, he is really one of them, so I don't hold out any hope.

[pattmarty]

13. Not if the Dems filibuster it. That I would pay good money to see.

[Liberalynn]

7. Me too.

I am still skeptical about this working but at least its a shot.

Wonder why the Congressional Dems are suddenly growing a backbone now? Are they actually respoding to the base if only for show?

[nvme]

26. the timing

I think the dems (in the house) begin to realize, listening to us will energize us enough to get our votes

[bvar22]

5. More Kabuki Theater.

It IS fun to think that Obama would be forced to "compromise" with the "Democrats" for once.

[ProudDad]

45. I'm afraid you're right... (n/t)

[Bonhomme Richard]

8. I am so, so tired of rolling over because someone say's that's the best..

we can get. From what I understand the 99'rs are already being dumped in this bill. I say let the republicans own the middle class not getting a tax benefit and they can shove their plan to de-fund SS right up their collective asses.

[Tansy_Gold]

14. I think Mr. Obama misunderstood

Mr. John Paul Jones.

"I have not yet begun to fight" DOES NOT MEAN you're never going to even start. . . . ..


TG, TT

[bertman]

9. EXCELLENT!!! REC. nt

[aggiesal]

11. arguing that the nation’s economy could be severely damaged ...

and the recovery might begin to move backwards ...

I actually think the economy would start moving forwards.

We're talking about going back to the Clinton Tax numbers, nothing else.
And the economy was screaming along during the Clinton years.
The recession officially started 6 weeks after Idiot Bush started issuing
his $600 tax credit (i.e. loan).

[obxhead]

16. It has also been the Republican talking point for the last few months

I'm so glad Obama can parrot their talking point as well as they do.

[abelenkpe]

17. Many economists have been forecasting a double dip

recession for more than a year now. So the chances that that occurs has absolutely zero to do with this tax deal.

Look the country has gone through an economic crisis in the past and we have a clear cut proven method for extracting ourselves from this situation. No matter how the right might try to rewrite history or claim that is was war that got us out of the great depression most know that is absolute poppycock. this country needs a new New Deal. We need public works program where the government directly employs the unemployed putting them to work rebuilding our infrastructure and helping the country move towards sustainable energy. We don't need war. We don't need to bust unions or scapegoat immigrants and Muslims. We don't need austerity. We need a new New Deal. We need to break up the monopolies in energy and media. Everything else proposed is just Baloney.

You want to help the 99ers? Public Works. There are so many reports of people unable to find work because their job has been outsourced by private industry and is never coming back. Or of private business not hiring the unemployed because they seem desperate. this is where the government needs to step in and hire and retrain directly. It is also the most efficient and cost effective use of money spent stimulating the economy.

[pattmarty]

12. Thank god for SOME good sense. Let's hope this doesn't turn out......

.....like the shitty healthcare "reform" when ALL the liberals caved. Grow some balls and stand firm for one time in the last 40 yrs.

[Steve_I_Am]

15. Woot! Woot!!

"They said 'Take it or leave it.' We left it!" - Rep. Pete DeFazio, Oregon.

WTG House Democrats!

Thank you for standing, and fighting. Don't let this terrible GOP-lite bill come up for a vote! Let ALL of the Bush tax cuts expire!

Kill the "Compromise!"

[tpsbmam]

19. Thom Hartmann right now -- very rough transcript/summary:

Ellen Ratner reporting. Nancy Pelosi said it was almost unanimous to reject what she called the Senate Republican tax provision. Everybody was reportedly shouting not just no but "damn no" and "hell no!" Nancy Pelosi won't bring it to the floor in its current form. Hartmann: Does this mean the President is now high and dry? Ratner: it means the President is very high and dry. I really don't know what he's going to do and what the Democrats are going to suggest and my guess is the Republicans are going to use this as their opportunity in whatever way they can. Hartmann suggests Reid call the Republicans' bluff & bring up the middle class tax vote again, take it or leave it. They think Pelosi is smart to give him an out by calling it a Republican bill -- maybe helps him to save face (NOT, IMO). The WH is running the press on this like a campaign -- coming out with statements of prominent Dems (mostly not in DC) who support his deal.

[defendandprotect]

32. Repugs aren't going to want a "defeated" Obama next 2 years... what good would

Obama be to them if he can't get their legislation through?


I'm listening to Schultz right now -- but trust I'll catch Hartmann at 3 or 4 pm....

thanks for the info!!

:)

Thom Hartmann right now -- very rough transcript/summary:

Ellen Ratner reporting. Nancy Pelosi said it was almost unanimous to reject what she called the Senate Republican tax provision. Everybody was reportedly shouting not just no but "damn no" and "hell no!" Nancy Pelosi won't bring it to the floor in its current form.

Hartmann: Does this mean the President is now high and dry?
Ratner: it means the President is very high and dry. I really don't know what he's going to do and what the Democrats are going to suggest and my guess is the Republicans are going to use this as their opportunity in whatever way they can. H
Hartmann suggests Reid call the Republicans' bluff & bring up the middle class tax vote again, take it or leave it.
They think Pelosi is smart to give him an out by calling it a Republican bill --maybe helps him to save face (NOT, IMO).

The WH is running the press on this like a campaign -- coming out with statements of prominent Dems (mostly not in DC) who support his deal.


I agree with Hartmann -- "Reid should call the Republicans' bluff and bring up the middle

class tax vote again - take it or leave it."

Democrats should have NOTHING to do with passing this Republican legislation!!!

If they do, it will destroy the Democratic Party --

[Steve_I_Am]

36. "Not just 'no" but "hell no!"

Nancy Pelosi said it was almost unanimous to reject what she called the Senate Republican tax provision. Peter DeFazio said people were reportedly shouting not just no but "damn no" and "hell no!"

[Emillereid]

20. Listening in to all the Obama bashing convinces me people here need to get a GRIP

and remember that politics is the ART OF THE POSSIBLE! Obama knows how to count votes and he knows how much he can get through and what he can't. Right now he can't get the votes for just the middle class stuff and he has to accept the upper income tax cuts in order to get what he wants. Doing otherwise would extract money out of middle class hands and worsen the economy -- thus hurting the middle class. So who wins in that scenario? I mean I could take the hit - but most Americans can't. Robert Greenstein, a tax and budget expert, was on Last Word last night. He is a true champion of the working poor and middle class and he looked upon the concessions Obama got from the repukes quite favorably -- better than we'd get come January, 2011.

A few days ago I realized that the problem was that Obama didn't 'appear' to fight -- he should have come out a weeks ago with fire and brimstone in his belly demanding everything we wanted, present the GOP as intransigent and crazy for wanting to continue the same tax cuts for the uber rich that haven't produced any jobs for the last decade and holding hostage everything that would actually help real people, etc. Then -- after exposing the repukes' true allegiance to their wealthy masters, he could have presented his deal as the best that could be extracted from the bastards. Even people on the left would have been on his side if he'd seemed to have put up a fight -- deal making behind closed doors never looks good.

That being said I wish the WH would hire George Lakoff and learn how to frame their messages better.

[sirthomas66]

22. If his plan begins the defunding of Social Security that eclipses

anything else in the bill!!! I myself have a very firm grip on who is and who is not caving in. I've been watching this stuff for 46 years. When the president does NOT refund what was taken out of Social Security next year, where will the money come from? The Republicans? Negative; the Republicans will attest to the fact Obama began the "adjustment" of Social Security and, we, the Republicans are simply following suit. Then bam!! another year of reduced payments. Then it becomes permanent!! Then 20 years down the road Bill, now 25 has nothing in Social Security and is forced to sleep in a dumpster, which are now high-rises because of chickenchits who 20 years ago went along with the president.

[Liberalynn]

35. Exactly

and Obama will be as much if not more so to blame for the ending of Social Security as the PUKES.

If they'd at least take that part out of the bill I wouldn't loathe it as much, or be so mad at Obama as I am now.

[sirthomas66]

37. Me too. But it seems few people on this board understand this. You're

the first to have echoed my exact thoughts, ma'am. Thank you for doing so.

[Liberalynn]

38. You are welcome.

[Emillereid]

40. Ezra Klein explained last week on MSNBC that fears of

SS cuts later on because of a payroll tax holiday are confused. The SS trust fund is an accounting mirage -- any "shortfall" would simply come out of the general fund. The general fund has been taking from SS for some time now. If SS is cut it would be because the politics deem it so -- probably because of a misunderstanding modern monetary policy -- i.e. because of false fears about deficits. Bondholders buying at low interest rates is a good indicator that the deficit is not a problem. And this is one area I do fault Obama and the dems -- they keep falling into the repub frame regarding the deficit. Now that the pukes are willing to explode the deficit another 700 billion in order to save the tax cuts to the rich tell you they are not serious about the debt either. Governments that issue their own currency don't have to worry about debt -- a government's budget is NOT like a household's.

Take a look at: http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=10384#more-10384

Peruse his website -- good info there.

[nvme]

27. The art of the possible lost against the message of the principle

If we stand for nothing then we fall for anything.

[defendandprotect]

34. Obama is fighting ... but for the wrong side ....

and if you think this criticism is happening only on DU,

you're totally out of touch.

[daleo]

43. Churchill didn't understand the "art of the possible" in 1940

If he did, he would have surrendered.

[Oerdin]

21. It's just a show.

They passed this bill knowing the Senate won't pass it (this is so they can later say they tried to not give the rich tax cuts) but later on next week they'll cave and pass Obama's deal/give away. We all know it.

[jerseyjack]

23. Might this backfire on us?

Something will be introduced next term by the Repuk majority. Is it likely to be worse than what was rejected today?

Also, can't Nancy bring the bill to a vote despite today's action?

[ooglymoogly]

30. And this is where this duplicitous soul exerts his considerable clout.

The warm winds of the Hesparades I have so willingly given to guide his wings aloft; his soul now revealed; to this deceit; I have long ago, so removed and bade him never enter that deadest garden; its innocence so flamed; Gone now and forever that naive and willing support.

[defendandprotect]

31. They should stick with opposing it ... if they don't we're in a POST-Dem Party era ....

[sirthomas66]

33. Exactly. If the Party is gone, there is no reason for hope at all, or

even any reason for staying in the US.

[tpsbmam]

41. Welcome to DU, sirthomas! I've wished many times over the past 10 years

I could move to another country (I happen to love a bunch of other Western countries). Sadly, no one wants a disabled almost senior citizen. If it gets really bad maybe we can seek political asylum. :hi:

:hippie: :crazy: :shrug:

[sirthomas66]

42. Thanks, buddy or ma'am. Appreciate it.............

[MadMaddie]

44. Does anyone honestly believe the Democratic House and Senate

can pass anything substanstial before the end of this session?

It's not going to happen.....they could have done it before Thanksgiving and they chickened out because of the Republicans beating their drums.

I find it interesting that the Dems don't have the fucking backbone to fight the Republicans but somehow they mustered the backbone to fight their own President. Does anyone see anything wrong with this scenario?