Make booze cheap for homeless, costly for everyone else: Study

[CraftyGal]

Source: Global News

Homeless drinkers are more apt to buy 75-per-cent-proof rum or 22-per-cent fortified wines, Stockwell said.

People in this small and vulnerable group are also more apt to turn to non-beverage sources, such as rubbing alcohol and antifreeze, if real alcohol is too expensive.

While it sounds "counter-intuitive," Stockwell suggests the best course for this group is for government to provide managed programs that provide stable accommodations and free alcohol.

A recent report in the British medical journal The Lancet studied the relative harmfulness of 20 psychoactive drugs and rated alcohol as the most harmful, followed by heroin and crack cocaine. The findings may strike some as hysterical but "it does say that alcohol is underestimated in terms of its harmfulness" and we allow it to be available at rock-bottom prices at our peril, Stockwell said.

Read more: http://www.globalnational.com/health/story.html?id=3992805

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I can kinda understand the position bust as a alcoholic in recovery...this is nuts! I lived in the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver, BC where I saw people drinking the lysol, the hair sprays, the cooking wine. What we did was advocate to get these products moved behind the counters so that there was accountability. Rather than plying our homeless with free booze we should be looking into ways to make booze less accessible. Believe me when I say a drunk will find a way to get their booze.

CraftyGal

[Arctic Dave]

1. Sounds like a way to help kill themselves faster. nt

[CraftyGal]

2. No doubt...n/t

[Hannah Bell]

3. rubbing alcohol isn't? being on the streets isn't?

[Arctic Dave]

6. Are you advocating helping them kill themselves faster?

Obviously they are killing themselves slowly but I would think that treatment would be far more helpful then cheap booze.

[Hannah Bell]

11. treatment isn't being offered either. death is the only thing offered.

[LanternWaste]

25. And anti-freeze is faster than cheap booze...

And anti-freeze is faster than cheap booze, and as treatment is not being offered on a scale that is cost-effective for the homeless... :shrug:

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[Arctic Dave]

27. They don't drink anti freeze for the effect.

The antidote for glycol poisoning is alcohol consumption.

[BOG PERSON]

5. so let them die, and lower the surplus population!

:think:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. Let's just execute "them!"

:patriot:

[Yavapai]

7. Let's sign them up for the tea party, where they will be just brain dead

just saying...

[CraftyGal]

8. In Canada it would be signing up for the Conservatives...

Oops did I just say that ;)

CraftyGal

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

9. No thanks.

They're human beings.

[mudplanet]

10. I think you're missing more than one point of the article

1 - By providing safe alcohol (as opposed to mouthwash and sterno) we are being kind and humane
2 - "managed programs that provide stable accommodations and free alcohol" means keeping them from dying on the street from exposure and poor nutrition. Providing the alcohol is no different from current methadone programs. "Managed programs" means being able to provide substance abuse counseling to assist people to quit and to help them to manage their sub abuse problems.

I believe you when you say a drunk will find a way to get his booze - and that's why I favor managed programs that will help to minimize the damage of alcoholism. They're going to get it anyway, let's make sure it's safe (as safe as alcohol can be).

Some accounts report that Winston Churchill drank two quarts of scotch a day - but he drank good scotch and got three squares a day, so he lived into his 80s.

Alcoholism treatment in Britain has moved away from the AA/abstinence is the only way model to include education about ways to mitigate alcohol's damage to a person. For example, the main, immediate problem many of the alcoholics I have worked with have is that they drink and drive. As a result, they have hurt others and they have massive, long-term legal problems that are as damaging as their alcoholism.

[IScreamSundays]

12. +1

Most alcoholics don't recover. Their solution is the most humane.

[mudplanet]

16. I'm not sure about "most" and "never" but I'm in my mid-50's and a social worker and

my professional and life experience definitely supports what the British study found: alcohol is the most destructive and dangerous drug of all.

Maybe that's why, historically, it has always been the most popular.

[verges]

18. Actually, he lived to 90. nt

[CraftyGal]

40. Thank you for your insights...

Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees. Interesting point.

CraftyGal

[mudplanet]

43. There are as many "solutions" to recovery as there are people

I'm not saying any one is better than another for a particular individual.

But insisting that there is "only one way" as AA does (and a lot of fundamentalist Christians) is to ignore reality and shut our eyes to ways to help other people minimize unnecessary suffering.

[CraftyGal]

50. I do agree on this....

not going to get into the whole issue of does AA work or not. It helped me but others have issues with it. I am agnostic and feel quite comfortable there.

CraftyGal

[MH1]

48. thanks

that's what I got from it too. aka 'harm reduction'.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cirque du So-What]

14. Not to nitpick, but...

...actually it *is* to nitpick...

'75-per-cent-proof rum' is just wrong. 'Proof' is always double the percentage of alcohol, so one number can't be proof and percent alcohol at the same time. The '75' is likely percent alcohol, making it 150 (151) proof rum.

As you said, the alcoholic will always find a way to get the alcohol, but can (or should, if they could) storekeepers put everything from Sterno to Aqua Velva behind the counter? Besides, who gets to decide whether to sell those products and to whom?

I agree that alcohol is a terrible substance with little redeeming value, but it's even worse for the alcoholic to ingest alcohol-containing substances that are even more poisonous. I would rather see programs for the homeless than have people getting poisoned from alternate sources of alcohol.

[Robb]

15. One would think this less controversial than a needle exchange program.

The idea being, I believe, you can't help anyone who's dead. It's triage at its simplest.

In this case, being alive increases your chances of recovering from addiction significantly.

[CLANG]

17. That's what they did in the old Soviet Union

They provided cheap vodka to everyone so instead of being out in the streets, they'd be home hanging on to a standing lamp for balance.

It's a communist plot for chrissakes!

[JackRiddler]

29. (please excuse my usage pet-peeve) It's just the Soviet Union. Not the "old" Soviet Union.

The name already says: that country (or whatever it was exactly) that disappeared in 1991. For example, we speak today of the Roman Empire, the Iroquois nations, etc., without saying "old." (The old Soviet Union might be, say, the one from the 1950s as opposed to the 1980s.)

Forgive me!!!

[CLANG]

47. I see your nitpick and raise you a

:toast: :beer: :hi: :fistbump: :headbang: :applause: :spray: :rofl: :patriot:

[Mopar151]

19. Jake leg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_leg

What happens when you make booze hard to get........

[X_Digger]

21. Not to mention the rise in organized crime.. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

20. Don't homeless people have enough problems without taking away their alcohol?

Why should those without shelter have less rights?

[Alcibiades]

22. Here in NC, you can get a fifth of vodka for $5.25

That's enough to get even a really hard core alcoholic pretty messed up. If you would just give the most alcoholic alcoholics $6.00 or so a day, they would stay away from the lysol. Or perhaps we could just deliver it to their doorstep daily?

I really don't think the problem is that booze isn't cheap enough.

[irislake]

23. And why not let them have free drugs too? Sheesh!

The quality of mercy .......

[provis99]

24. actually, they should have free drugs, too.

That will prevent them from prostituting themselves out to scummy thugs who are apt to rape or murder them. The fact that drugs are so expensive explains why so much street prostitution exists.

[CraftyGal]

41. Actually not true on that point.

That will prevent them from prostituting themselves out to scummy thugs who are apt to rape or murder them. The fact that drugs are so expensive explains why so much street prostitution exists.

I can say from knowing the women I know that have died at a serial killers hand that they were forced into doing drugs by their "boyfriend" or they did them because of the shame of selling themselves to men over and over. It is not a simplistic reason for why women are in the sex trade. I am very touchy on this subject as I lost 2 friends on the Pickton farm and one more is still missing.

CraftyGal

[saras]

26. Brewing lessons?

Reminds me of the KLF's 'free beer for the homeless on Christmas' project that went awry...

Historically, more apples were used to make hard cider than for anything else - that's why so many apple varieties aren't that good eating. If you're one of those 'work is better than charity' folks, you could give the homeless free lessons in making applejack.

[oldhippydude]

28. excuse me...

Alcoholism is very treatable... as are any addictions.. addictions are medical conditions, to suggest that people suffering from addictions should just crawl away and die is unconscionable (p.s. i will be celebrating 32 years of recovery in January from alcoholism)

[pitohui]

yeah all diseases are "treatable"

the fact remains that less than 1 in 10 of alcoholics will recover, it's nice for you that you're one of the 10 percent but in my life experience i think that 10 percent is actually too high -- i know almost NO ONE who has recovered

everything is TREATABLE but treatable is a meaningless word, if it was CURABLE that would be a different story but the truth is and we can all see it -- for most, the overwhelming majority of alcoholics, there is no CURE

"treating" alcoholism is job security for social workers, etc. but nothing but nuisance value to the alcoholic

i'm tired of hearing about "treatments," either find some cures or go away, no offense

it's like telling a man whose leg has been cut off that YOUR gangrenous leg got healed and sewn back on, how nice for you, but it's no fucking use to tell the homeless guy this...

i know too many good people caught in the trap of alcoholism, and i am no longer interested in treatments THEY DON'T WORK

[CraftyGal]

42. I just celebrated 5 years myself. n/t

[Throd]

30. A 40 ouncer of Steel Reserve 211 will get you hammered for about $1.99

[Courtesy Flush]

39. You can say that again!

[Throd]

31. A 40 ouncer of Steel Reserve 211 will get you hammered for about $1.99

[bitchkitty]

32. Better to give them food, shelter and mental health care.

I hate alcohol. It kills families and devastates society.

[Prometheus Bound]

35. He is recommending managed programs that provide stable accommodations and free alcohol.

Not either or.

I can't see why so many people object to the humanity of the recommendation.

[bitchkitty]

36. What's wrong with stable accommodations and

free mental health care?

Giving free alcohol is not the same as giving free heroin. Few drugs have the negative effect on the personality that alcohol does, in my opinion.
I'm not a social scientist, or psychologist but honey, believe me - I speak from a lifetime of bitter experience. The last thing a drunk needs is more alcohol, however well intentioned the gesture.

[Prometheus Bound]

46. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

He was concerned about the alternative to cheap booze: "rubbing alcohol and antifreeze, if real alcohol is too expensive."

While I understand exactly what you are saying about alcohol and drunks, in this case, I have to side with some of the other posters here. It's better than the alternative.

[CLANG]

51. The lack of alcohol might put them in a sour mood for therapy

[JVS]

33. Don't mimic the UK when it comes to alcohol policy

by taxing so heavily they have made finding the cheapest way to get as drunk as possible into a national obsession

[progressiveinaction]

34. This reminds me....

It's Friday night, I might as well get shit faced!

[Bragi]

37. This is a straight-forward "harm reduction" strategy

I support public health harm reduction strategies.

Find out a bit about harm reduction here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_reduction

http://canadianharmreduction.com/

[sendero]

38. Occasionally...

... when I visit a liquor or convenience store that sells alcohol, I'll be approached by someone asking me for money.

Now, there are many folks who will say "don't give him money, he's just going to buy booze!".

I really don't understand their point. Booze is just about the only comfort most of these people get, EVER. I don't care if he buys some beer with my $3, I just hope he does whatever will give him the most human comfort, be it MD 20/20 and bottle of Steel Reserve or a Big Mac.

There are times for the moral rectitude argument and there are times there are more important things.

[killbotfactory]

44. How about we don't write people off and throw them away when they hit hard times?

And do our best efforts to get these peoples lives back together? You know, since they are human and all...

[Bragi]

49. +1

[Canuckistanian]

45. Victory Gin.

Keep those peasants from revolting at all costs.