Thousands of Thai Red Shirts gather in Bangkok

[Joanne98]

Source: AFP

BANGKOK — Thousands of Thailand's "Red Shirts" gathered in Bangkok Sunday to mark seven months since a deadly military crackdown on their anti-government protest.

Wearing their signature colour, the demonstrators chanted "There were dead people here!" and released red balloons in the latest in a series of rallies in the Thai capital to commemorate those killed during unrest in April and May.

The Reds' two-month rally, which attracted 100,000 people at its peak in support of their demands for snap elections, was brought to a bloody end on May 19 with an army assault on the group's base.

The demonstration saw street battles between protesters and troops in violence that left more than 90 people dead and nearly 1,900 injured.



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[Catherina]

1. Rec'd. People all over the world are rising up and demanding fairness.

I rec'd but still 0. Someone doesn't like this news.

[OregonBlue]

3. That's because many realize it isn't workers vs the government in Thailand. The Red Shirts support

outlawed Prime Minister Taksin who is a multi-billionaire corporate crook. He was smart enough to throw money around to the poor peasants in the north and create a political base but he is a crook. He stole his billions from the Thai people through crooked land deals and selling services from his communications company(financed by Thai tax dollars) to the Junta in Burma. He was educated in Texas and is a big friend of the Bush's.

[Catherina]

8. The red shirts are poor people fighting against the IMF complicit government

The country has been plunged into recession and stagnation despite the GREAT GOOD Thaksin did when he paid off the country's IMF loan and kicked the IMF out of Thailand.

Thaksin has his own set of problems but he did a lot of good for the people.

In addition to tossing the IMF out on its ass, he

- provided free education to the poor
- initiated a universal health care system that allowed people to be treated for the equivalent of a dollar,
- imposed a moratorium on the payment of farmers' debts
- created a one-million-baht fund for each village that villagers could invest however they wanted

This is class warfare because of huge wealth and income inequalities. You do yourself no favors to minimize what's happening.

What has erupted in Thailand is the elemental first stage of class struggles that have broad significance for workers throughout the region and internationally. Bitter political infighting in the Thai ruling elites over the past four years has opened the door for the entry of sections of the rural and urban poor into political life. Along with demands for immediate elections, deeper social concerns over poverty and unemployment have begun to intrude.

So obvious is the class divide that the establishment media in Thailand and internationally have been compelled to comment. The “Red Shirt” protests backed by ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, a billionaire businessman, are far from homogeneous, but the vast bulk of the protesters come from the country’s poorer rural areas. As the demonstrations have worn on, they have been joined by workers and the urban poor. Particularly troubling for army chiefs have been obvious signs of sympathy among the military’s lower ranks, drawn from the same social layers.

The social divisions are particularly evident in the glitzy Ratchaprasong commercial district where red-shirted villagers are camped out amid the capital’s prestigious shopping malls and five-star hotels. Speaking to the Sydney Morning Herald, Supawadee Khamhaeng, a fruit vendor from the rural north who earns 100 baht or $US3 a day, said she had tolerated poverty in the past. “It can’t be like that now”, she added. “They always rich, we always poor. That is not democracy”.

Thailand is one of the most socially unequal countries in Asia. According to a Bank of Thailand report, the top 20 percent of the population controls 69 percent of the nation’s wealth as compared to just 1 percent for the lowest 20 percent. The average income for the bottom 20 percent is just 1,443 baht or $US45 a month—the official poverty line. As the economy contracted by 3.5 percent last year and credit dried up, it was the small farmers, businessmen and vendors, along with the working class, that were hardest hit. The resumption of economic growth and booming share prices this year have not alleviated the privations facing working people.

...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/apr2010/pers-a15.shtml

The neoliberals have been no friend of the Thai people. The red shirts want all that out. I side with them. Have you bothered to look into what all those poor people are protesting? What their demands are?

The Thai Army and elite have been so corrupt that Thaksin' pro-people policies were more decisive than corruption when it came to addressing poverty. His policies made a huge difference in their lives. For the very first time in Thai history, the poor are organizing, accompanied by their women and children, so the rich are having the Army kill them off to maintain submission. Political corruption is something the people can live with. Lack of food for neoliberal profit however, is not.

China and the rapidly growing newly industrializing countries of East and Southeast Asia, where most of the global reduction in poverty took place, were marked by high degrees of corruption. The decisive difference between their performance and that of countries subjected to structural adjustment was not corruption but economic policy.

Despite its malign effect on democracy and civil society, corruption is not the main cause of poverty. The "anti poverty, anti-corruption" crusades that so enamor the middle classes and the World Bank will not meet the challenge of poverty. Bad economic policies create and entrench poverty. Unless and until we reverse the policies of structural adjustment, trade liberalization, and conservative macroeconomic management, we will not escape the poverty trap.

http://www.fpif.org/articles/does_corruption_create_poverty

One side has Armies, tanks and machine guns. The other has legitimate complaints. Which side are you on?

[jberryhill]

9. Classic populist authoritarian strategy

Yes - what dictator DIDN'T oppose the intellectual elite by buying off local cronies?

It's not as if crooked leaders rise to power without popular support. But short term popularity does not translate well into long term democratic government with these types.

Heck, Ferdinand Marcos was popular as all heck for a very long time.

[OregonBlue]

14. Thaksin bought his way into power and then used that power to rape the country for his own personal

gain. It's so sad that the Red Shirts have managed to convince the poor farmers that they actually care about what happens to them. Thailand is in a hell of a mess right now and there doesn't appear to be any actual populist leadership, only those vying to win an election so they can rob the country blind.

[OregonBlue]

10. Excuse me but I know a great deal about what is going on in Thailand. I spend 4-6 months out of

every year there? Do You? It is not simple what is going on but the Red Shirts main demand has been that Thaksin be returned to power. The leaders of the Red Shirts are just as corrupt as every other politician. They don't care that he is a crook that stole the country blind, they only care that he is their crook. He didn't want the IMF or anyone else in the country because they were the ones who were bringing his crooked deals to light.

Thailand IS NOT one of the most socially unequal countries in Asia. Have you been to Asia? Have you seen how the politicos and CEO's and generals live in Burma, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc., etc;, etc? Please don't repeat whatever fits your version of the situation just because you are trying to make a point.

I read the Nation and the Bangkok Post every day. I have many, many friends in Thailand and in Issan and in Laos. While I agree that the poor, especially the farmers in the north, have very legitimate complaints, I know that the Red Shirt leadership is using these poor people for their own political aims.

It's not unlike the Tea Party here. The Red Shirt leadership does not give a damn about the poor, they only want back in office and they want political power.

Please don't lecture me about what is going on in Thailand. I know what is going on in Thailand and these Red Shirts are very bad news for the country.

[Catherina]

11. This is really funny. I'm half Thai but thanks for the lecture na-ka.

Just admit you're fine with neoliberal stranglehold of the poor.

[OregonBlue]

12. You're half Thai but how much time do you spend there? Ever been there? Ever gone up and talked to

the people in Issan? Ever met any Red Shirts?

[Catherina]

16. Pak Issan is where my mother's from. I go once or twice a year.

Of course I've met some. Many. You can't walk down the street without meeting Red Shirts or Red Shirt supporters since the Red Shirts are made up of the poor and working class and it's in rural Issan that Thailand's worst poor benefited the most from Thaksin's reforms. Universal healthcare for the poor including migrant workers? University educations for the poor? Issan worships the ground he walked on.

What are you doing down there? Business? Next time you're there, talk to a tuk-tuk driver or farmer. I have the impression that you're listening to the English-speaking Thai business community that isn't anymore on the side of the poor than the business community here.

Thaksin is no gift from God but when it came to results for the people, he delivered. He did a little too much for the people when he cut poverty in half within four years and got ousted as a result. He has nothing to do with the picture now unless you think he's orchestrating this all from exile, besides many of the Red Shirts don't even support Thaksin. The French Revolution started with political intrigues among the Royals. Who cares that these people like Thaksin or nor, they're not protesting with the UDD and risking their lives for Thaksin. They want better lives and they're livid that Thaksin's party which was elected twice by the largest landslides in Thailand's democratic history, was ousted in a military coup. Anyone who supports democracy should be livid too.

For over a year, the Army has been murdering people and torturing them. I stand against them, with the Red Shirts. I stand with them, with slingshots and rocks against the tanks of this military government that installed itself with a coup. With them, the poor and working class whose political consciousness has been awakened.

[jberryhill]

20. "Next time you're there, talk to a tuk-tuk driver"

Now that's funny.

If there is some way NOT to talk to a tuk-tuk driver, PM me the secret.

My limited experience in Thailand is that many folks are not comfortable discussing politics.

The only consensus I can determine is that everybody likes that one daughter of Bhumibol's. I was last there during the funeral of her aunt.

[Catherina]

22. Touche.

Even here, my family thinks I'm too outspoken about politics. I don't even dare tell them about DU. Touche.

[jberryhill]

23. I think it is part of the Buddhist conflict avoidance thing

The assumption of western democracy is that we are going to argue with one another to reach a result, but that idea doesn't seem to translate as well to the peculiar intensity of certain Buddhist values in Thailand.

Either that or Thais are afraid they will get in trouble for expressing political opinions. I really couldn't figure it out.

[OregonBlue]

21. I spend lots of time in Issan. I love the people. I admit that Thaksin helped the poor rural people.

That does not mean he was not corrupt to the core. He was only trying to maintain a power base.

Thaksin negotiated a deal with the Burmese Junta to provide a massive telecommunications package to Burma. Not of course to the Burmese people but to the Junta itself so they could spy on the Burmese people. The deal of course was through HIS telecommunications company. Of course he didn't make the Junta pay for it, he LOANED them the money from the Thai government. So of course, it came out of the pockets of the Thai people and went directly in his pocket.

He had the government conduct a land survey for the new airport. He then bought up all of the land south of Bangkok at pennies on the dollar. He forced farmers off their land and those that didn't want to leave were "persuaded" that it was in their best interest to go. He then placed the land in the names of his wife, his cousins, his brothers-in-law, etc. He then had the "government" decide that that is where they would put the new airport and he sold the land to the government at hugely inflated prices, once again using Thai taxpayer dollars for his own profit. That is what finally caught up to him.

He then used sub-par contractors (those who were willing to pay him kickbacks) to build the new airport. The quality was so bad that when the new airport opened there were 7 runways. Within a week of opening, 4 had to be closed because the asphalt used was so bad that they were unusable. They had to be ripped up and new ones put in. I was in the airport less than a month after it opened. The marble tiles used for the flooring throughout the airport was so thin and so poorly laid, at least 1/3 of it had already cracked. Many of the bathroom fixtures have already broken, doors are hanging off their hinges because they did not use heavy enough materials. The whole thing is one big money pit and that money went directly into Thaksin's pocket.

And yes, I do believe that Thaksin is directing all of this from exile. He has made that clear. I was in Bangkok during the last demonstration and he was issuing statements and appearing on TV daily. He is financing their "populist uprising".

Most of the people I deal with are Lao, either from Loas or Issan. Many believe in what Thaksin was trying to do but few believe that he is anything other than a crook. As I said, they don't care if he is a crook, he's their crook.

Until the Red Shirts denounce Thaksin and his corruption, I will never see them as anything other than the Thai version of the Tea Party.It's sorta like they are saying "Don't tread on me" except look the other way when "our guy" steals the country blind.

[Imajika]

18. I lived in Thailand in the past and travel there fairly often...

...and I agree with you about the Red Shirts. They are not a force for good in any way.

Still, at least leading into the red shirt street battles, the majority of Thai's would have voted to put Thaksin back in office in a heartbeat. The majority of the country is the rural poor and they still support him and pretty much always have since his rise to power. The middle class tend to dislike Thaksin, as does the business community and large swaths of the South of the country - but he still has a ton of support.

Now, perhaps attitudes have changed since the red shirt mobs were put down. I have not been back recently. I know the red shirts lost the support of quite a few people, even some of the poor, after what they did in Bangkok and elsewhere. Burning down shopping malls and some of the other red shirt actions bordered on pure senseless destruction. Still, I suspect if Thaksin could run again today he would win.

It is a shame. The rural poor do need a leader to stand for them, but Thaksin is an obvious crook and the more educated middle and business classes will never let him come back or remain in office.

[Catherina]

19. At the same time,

both the leaders of the yellow shirts and the red shirts are fearful that sections of the urban and rural poor and the working class are voicing demands for basic democratic rights and decent living standards.

My line in the sand, when I crossed to the Red Shirts, was when an unelected government started shoot pro-democracy protestors. Thaksin doesn't even figure into my equation.

Revolutions are never black or white. I hope the poor come out winners.

[jberryhill]

4. Uh, the red shirts support a criminal kleptocrat.

I guess when the thousands of yellow shirts were protesting, you didn't applaud Thai people demanding "fairness"?

Why?

[alfredo]

5. So it is the Red Tea Party.

[jberryhill]

6. Approximately, IMHO

There is a real problem in Thailand, because a rural majority prefers corrupt leadership.

[alfredo]

7. Kind of like here. They say they don't like corruption but

vote for the same corrupt assholes over and over again.

[OregonBlue]

15. Pretty much. They give lots of lip service to the poor and their plight but all they really want is

to regain power so they can rob the treasury for themselves and their cronies. I feel so badly for them.

[alfredo]

17. I guess their leader learned well from the Bush family.

[OregonBlue]

13. I haven't supported any of the groups. This is all a stuggle for power and the Thai people are the

losers in it all. Each party has valid grievances but their tactics have been very harmful to the country.

Tourism is way down. Revenues are way down. The average Thai has been hurt by all of the machinations of these "leaders". Most of them don't give a damn what happens to the average working Thai. They want control so they can get their turn to skim off millions from the government.

Sure wish there was a party that actually had the Thai people's best interests at heart but there does not appear to be.

[Echotrail]

2. It's very sad what is going on in Thailand

also quite complicated.

Thanks for posting this.